Don't listen to the QQ DE, Bursas are great!

[VCaptiion]

No wonder why most of the frame/weapons are mastery fodder now because of those whining elitists and fanboys. Wow every single normal mission should be challenge so you can show off your overpower gear while others should just git gud or get out, better gear check and being forced to play with certain style to get rid of these useless noob. Keep fanboy and stay Loki/Valkyr because masterrace.

Edited February 28, 2016 by VCaptiion

[Madrox8]

1 minute ago, carnaga said:

, Mag - pull & shield polarize,

 

y pull? a bullet atractor works so much better as it makes your shots do more damage and if yout not in front of the bursa they will just get mowed down, + when they do go down the bubble is still up to protect you as you hack.

 

what would pull do? tip them over for 1 second?

[carnaga]

58 minutes ago, Madrox8 said:

y pull? a bullet atractor works so much better as it makes your shots do more damage and if yout not in front of the bursa they will just get mowed down, + when they do go down the bubble is still up to protect you as you hack.

 

what would pull do? tip them over for 1 second?

Mag Pull:

http://i.imgur.com/gblgY22.gifv

 

Spoiler

 

Edit: bullet attractor: "Redirected projectiles travel in a straight line from the point of impact to the center of the sphere which can draw fire away from enemy weak spots". If bursa faces you with riot shields down (not running), well, you know.

 

 

Edited February 28, 2016 by carnaga
gifv

[Madrox8]

21 minutes ago, carnaga said:

Mag Pull:

 

that works, didn't think pull would be that good vs them, but this is my method

 

 

[carnaga]

2 minutes ago, Madrox8 said:

that works, didn't think pull would be that good vs them, but this is my method

-snip-

Definitely an effective way to deal them :) I rarely play with mag but she's a good frame ^^

[BuckleBunny]

I like bursas, I think they're a good addition to the game, but they're a little broken.

Not their difficulty, that's what I like about them. But they spawn more enemies for no reason, and they will keep spawning them. Which becomes a problem when they're constantly turning on the alarm for even more bursas to show up, which kind of becomes an endless cycle.

Would it really hurt to just have them not spawn more enemies? This becomes a headache rather than a challenge, especially on solo or sortie missions. Not harder game play I should say again, just more wasted time, specifically on exterminates.

[traybong111]

Try-hards praising something broken and meaningless to stroke their e-peen, nothing unusual here. 

I honestly don't see what "difficulty" and "tactics" they add. I play Ember and Frost mainly, and once I freeze or knock them down I can just ignore them, except when their level goes past 40 at which point I have to freeze/KD them every 3 seconds and shoot indefinitely in their rears to shut them up. Bursas in non-endless missions are just multiple annoying mechanics (buggy spawn, bullet sponge, CC-spam, fast regen) rolled into one. 

I'm not sure which is sadder: the sheer mess that is the scaling in this game that corners most attempts at challenge into various categories of annoying, or these "dunt listen to QQs!!1" type of players who need to cling to such broken things to find any semblance of challenge and self-worth. 

[Specific.Zod]

36 minutes ago, traybong111 said:

Try-hards praising something broken and meaningless to stroke their e-peen, nothing unusual here. 

I honestly don't see what "difficulty" and "tactics" they add. I play Ember and Frost mainly, and once I freeze or knock them down I can just ignore them, except when their level goes past 40 at which point I have to freeze/KD them every 3 seconds and shoot indefinitely in their rears to shut them up. Bursas in non-endless missions are just multiple annoying mechanics (buggy spawn, bullet sponge, CC-spam, fast regen) rolled into one. 

I'm not sure which is sadder: the sheer mess that is the scaling in this game that corners most attempts at challenge into various categories of annoying, or these "dunt listen to QQs!!1" type of players who need to cling to such broken things to find any semblance of challenge and self-worth. 

problem come from both sides. QQs and Don't listen to QQs. easy as that. we are not playing god here anyway, and no game is perfect

 

[Faulcun]

22 hours ago, carnaga said:

19 hours ago, traybong111 said:

Try-hards praising something broken and meaningless to stroke their e-peen, nothing unusual here. 

I honestly don't see what "difficulty" and "tactics" they add. I play Ember and Frost mainly, and once I freeze or knock them down I can just ignore them, except when their level goes past 40 at which point I have to freeze/KD them every 3 seconds and shoot indefinitely in their rears to shut them up. Bursas in non-endless missions are just multiple annoying mechanics (buggy spawn, bullet sponge, CC-spam, fast regen) rolled into one. 

I'm not sure which is sadder: the sheer mess that is the scaling in this game that corners most attempts at challenge into various categories of annoying, or these "dunt listen to QQs!!1" type of players who need to cling to such broken things to find any semblance of challenge and self-worth. 

What is the funniest thing: I see people writing how easy they are making fun of other people who sometimes struggle with them. I don't find this cool.

 

Ah no. The fact of the matter is that there are people who struggle with these enemies, and there are people who dont. The people here that dont, have tried to give advise to the people who do, and your reply to them is essentially "oh, well they are try-hards. If I can't do it, then it must be broken".  Nothing unusual here either.

There are some things that need to be looked at, however, these enemies are far from unbeatable. Now if my squad was getting wrecked on on jupiter, venus, or even pluto or something, then Id be right here holding a "fix it" sign with everybody else. But the sorties are meant to be tough. I expect to have tough time with some of them, and I welcome it. It is a solid change in pace from the overpowered weapons and frames we end up using on regular missions and wonder why we are bored while we are doing it.

[traybong111]

53 minutes ago, Faulcun said:

Ah no. The fact of the matter is that there are people who struggle with these enemies, and there are people who dont. The people here that dont, have tried to give advise to the people who do, and your reply to them is essentially "oh, well they are try-hards. If I can't do it, then it must be broken".  Nothing unusual here either.

There are some things that need to be looked at, however, these enemies are far from unbeatable. Now if my squad was getting wrecked on on jupiter, venus, or even pluto or something, then Id be right here holding a "fix it" sign with everybody else. But the sorties are meant to be tough. I expect to have tough time with some of them, and I welcome it. It is a solid change in pace from the overpowered weapons and frames we end up using on regular missions and wonder why we are bored while we are doing it.

 

Another person who doesn't know how to read, or somehow has selective reading that ignores anything that doesn't serve him. Not that I expected anything better. 

I have no problem dealing with Bursas. I just don't see why people like you keep hyping over Bursas like they're some saviors in the barren wastelands of Warframe "difficulty" and treating anyone who dissents like heretic casuals when Bursas turned out to be nothing particularly special or creative. Bursas are just scaling turned up to 11 (their base armor is higher than some heavy Grineer units, highest base health out of all non-boss Corpus and higher than some Corpus bosses, etc) which is why I don't see the "difficulty" you're talking about. Sure they eat up more ammo and ability spam, but I really hope that doesn't constitute "difficulty" to you. All I see from threads like these is people suffering from Stockholm syndromes to a deeply flawed scaling in Warframe. 

But like I've admitted in other threads discussing Sorties and Tactical Alerts, I'm honestly not sure how DE could present a frustrating AND satisfying challenge in Warframe without taking away some/most/all of Warframe powers or introducing units that blatantly ignore some rules (e.g. things damaging Limbo through the Rift, invincibility phase, etc.) I'm glad to see more enemies with CC-resistance and with some proper boss treatments I think Bursas could end up as the heavy tank addition which the Corpus, the relatively squishier faction, desperately needs (and something Volkovyi, the original designer of Riot MoA, intended them to be.)

At the moment Bursas are an all-in-one unit that reveals just how lazily designed they were, and the fact that Bursas (and Nullifiers to some degree) have to be an all-in-one package deal to stir any sort of attention among players is telling of how various enemy units can't really complement each other in Warframe. What little synergy they can have with braindead AIs goes unnoticed because they're wiped so quickly, and to counter the ridiculous scaling in our power enemy offense & defense is scaled accordingly, so on and so forth in a vicious cycle. I hope you can see why I'm not that enthused when players praise its perpetuation as something more. 

[Faulcun]

27 minutes ago, traybong111 said:

 

Another person who doesn't know how to read, or somehow has selective reading that ignores anything that doesn't serve him. Not that I expected anything better. 

I have no problem dealing with Bursas. I just don't see why people like you keep hyping over Bursas like they're some saviors in the barren wastelands of Warframe "difficulty" and treating anyone who dissents like heretic casuals when Bursas turned out to be nothing particularly special or creative. Bursas are just scaling turned up to 11 (their base armor is higher than some heavy Grineer units, highest base health out of all non-boss Corpus and higher than some Corpus bosses, etc) which is why I don't see the "difficulty" you're talking about. Sure they eat up more ammo and ability spam, but I really hope that doesn't constitute "difficulty" to you. All I see from threads like these is people suffering from Stockholm syndromes to a deeply flawed scaling in Warframe. 

But like I've admitted in other threads discussing Sorties and Tactical Alerts, I'm honestly not sure how DE could present a frustrating AND satisfying challenge in Warframe without taking away some/most/all of Warframe powers or introducing units that blatantly ignore some rules (e.g. things damaging Limbo through the Rift, invincibility phase, etc.) I'm glad to see more enemies with CC-resistance and with some proper boss treatments I think Bursas could end up as the heavy tank addition which the Corpus, the relatively squishier faction, desperately needs (and something Volkovyi, the original designer of Riot MoA, intended them to be.)

At the moment Bursas are an all-in-one unit that reveals just how lazily designed they were, and the fact that Bursas (and Nullifiers to some degree) have to be an all-in-one package deal to stir any sort of attention among players is telling of how various enemy units can't really complement each other in Warframe. What little synergy they can have with braindead AIs goes unnoticed because they're wiped so quickly, and to counter the ridiculous scaling in our power enemy offense & defense is scaled accordingly, so on and so forth in a vicious cycle. I hope you can see why I'm not that enthused when players praise its perpetuation as something more. 

Everything that you are complaining about, you are doing yourself.

I have openly acknowledged that bursas need to be looked at. I am not hyping anything. However, a solid fact is that the bursa's are not unbeatable. So you have players here who have openly admitted to having quit the mission because they didnt understand how to deal with the bursas. In order to form a respectable opinion on how to change or fix something, one needs to understand how to deal with it in the first place. You cant just say "oh i got my pants beat off in a SORTIE from an enemy i dont understand how to beat, plz fix or nerf"

So others have made suggestions in ways to approach the missions and the enemy in the hopes that somebody learns something about anything really. The majority of issues players have can solely be attributed to user error. Once we get passed that, then people can have a constructive discussion about how to fix things. There has not been any player bashing going on here. In fact, ive only been seeing people attempting to help other people.

The selective reading is only on your side my friend. Ive read through your posts, and you have provided your opinions. I dont need to address them because im not making a point about them. Regardless of what anybody defines as "difficulty", there are players that are being defeated by an enemy that has been proven to be beatable, and relatively easily for some, despite claims of bugs, or scaling, or glitches, or whatever. This is what needs to be addressed first, whether its a lack of information in the codex (which could easily be added when you have scanned enemies, explaining strategies or weaknesses), or a lack of communication on what to expect, a larger lack of player resources, etc etc. There are some players here who are only just now learning what to do when they encounter these enemies, and thats a huge part of the problem.

[Wandrecanada]

Bursas need a spawn limit cap.

Bursas need to not increase the exterminate counter.

Bursa hacking needs to be a button press instead of breaking combat flow with hacking minigame.

Bursa health/armor scaling needs to reflect the mission to allow proper ramping for new(er) players and learning.

Bursas need better telegraphing.  What kind is it? What is it doing now? When is it hacked or not hacked? Is it shooting? Stunned? Just sitting there lonely and frustrated?

Bursa spawns should scale with player count.  Mo playas, mo bursas.

 

Yes they are a great move forward in enemy diversity but they break a lot of the experience for many players. Older players complaining about difficulty challenges need to remember that they got to move through this content without the walls they are now demanding. If you want a challenge then remove your maxed serration and elemental mods. That's the kind of challenge new players experience.

[Necrius]

OP is either masochist, troll or knows bursas only from a single level 15-20 encounter while wielding some noob weapon and/or cheesy frame.

[traybong111]

52 minutes ago, Faulcun said:

Everything that you are complaining about, you are doing yourself.

I have openly acknowledged that bursas need to be looked at. I am not hyping anything. However, a solid fact is that the bursa's are not unbeatable. So you have players here who have openly admitted to having quit the mission because they didnt understand how to deal with the bursas. In order to form a respectable opinion on how to change or fix something, one needs to understand how to deal with it in the first place. You cant just say "oh i got my pants beat off in a SORTIE from an enemy i dont understand how to beat, plz fix or nerf"

So others have made suggestions in ways to approach the missions and the enemy in the hopes that somebody learns something about anything really. The majority of issues players have can solely be attributed to user error. Once we get passed that, then people can have a constructive discussion about how to fix things. There has not been any player bashing going on here. In fact, ive only been seeing people attempting to help other people.

The selective reading is only on your side my friend. Ive read through your posts, and you have provided your opinions. I dont need to address them because im not making a point about them. Regardless of what anybody defines as "difficulty", there are players that are being defeated by an enemy that has been proven to be beatable, and relatively easily for some, despite claims of bugs, or scaling, or glitches, or whatever. This is what needs to be addressed first, whether its a lack of information in the codex (which could easily be added when you have scanned enemies, explaining strategies or weaknesses), or a lack of communication on what to expect, a larger lack of player resources, etc etc. There are some players here who are only just now learning what to do when they encounter these enemies, and thats a huge part of the problem.

 

I just went through the thread again, and I apologize for the snarkiness as I've confused your posts with others'. I'm still getting used to the new forum lines. 

I was originally going on a tangent about how enemy AIs take lower priority compared to pattern/role communication in horde shooters like Warframe, and how Bursas' frantic, non-stop and "unpredictable" noise could result in some kind of sensory overwhelm for players. Warframe is already a fast-paced and visually messy game (all those hours in ODS have probably done some irreparable damage to my eyesight) that, more often than not, encourages the player to go for an AoE-wipe rather than picking out priority targets. 

It's one of the reasons why I think some players don't know how to start with Bursa because it communicates itself really poorly, because it doesn't have a clearly defined role, resulting in a noisy incoherent mesh of annoyance. Bursas were designed to be defensive units of the Corpus but DE threw in so much other things in there that they're doing everything at once and players don't have much of an approach other than the usual CC spam and shooting a lot. 

As I've opined before, the way Bursas have been implemented reveals a lot of flaws in the game--whacky scaling may be the biggest culprit but lack of functionally defined enemies that do different things and communicate their differences is there, too. Corpus has some of the more diverse support units (stun/stomp MoAs, many flavors of flying turds, Nullifiers...) and yet it wasn't until Nullifiers were added that Corpus units' distinction was noticed by players. Similar situation for Infested until Healers started providing damage reduction to allies. 

If Bursas are to communicate themselves better, they need to have reduced "noise." This means clearer reaction pattern to player action (e.g. when damaged from front it will raise its shield and then proceed to stomp the shield, going stationary for a short while; when a player tries to ignore it or run away it will charge up its missiles with a clear "shriek," etc) which grants players more control over luring/flanking Bursas and other heavy units into certain maneuvers that would result in their advantage. 

[PrVonTuckIII]

They're amazing until an Isolator nullifies you, tethers you, and then stunlocks you and then oneshots you with it's shotgun.

[Faulcun]

1 hour ago, traybong111 said:

 

I just went through the thread again, and I apologize for the snarkiness as I've confused your posts with others'. I'm still getting used to the new forum lines. 

I was originally going on a tangent about how enemy AIs take lower priority compared to pattern/role communication in horde shooters like Warframe, and how Bursas' frantic, non-stop and "unpredictable" noise could result in some kind of sensory overwhelm for players. Warframe is already a fast-paced and visually messy game (all those hours in ODS have probably done some irreparable damage to my eyesight) that, more often than not, encourages the player to go for an AoE-wipe rather than picking out priority targets. 

It's one of the reasons why I think some players don't know how to start with Bursa because it communicates itself really poorly, because it doesn't have a clearly defined role, resulting in a noisy incoherent mesh of annoyance. Bursas were designed to be defensive units of the Corpus but DE threw in so much other things in there that they're doing everything at once and players don't have much of an approach other than the usual CC spam and shooting a lot. 

As I've opined before, the way Bursas have been implemented reveals a lot of flaws in the game--whacky scaling may be the biggest culprit but lack of functionally defined enemies that do different things and communicate their differences is there, too. Corpus has some of the more diverse support units (stun/stomp MoAs, many flavors of flying turds, Nullifiers...) and yet it wasn't until Nullifiers were added that Corpus units' distinction was noticed by players. Similar situation for Infested until Healers started providing damage reduction to allies. 

If Bursas are to communicate themselves better, they need to have reduced "noise." This means clearer reaction pattern to player action (e.g. when damaged from front it will raise its shield and then proceed to stomp the shield, going stationary for a short while; when a player tries to ignore it or run away it will charge up its missiles with a clear "shriek," etc) which grants players more control over luring/flanking Bursas and other heavy units into certain maneuvers that would result in their advantage. 

Glad we could find some common ground.

FYI, for those of you still reading, Ive found that having a sniper on the team helps a bit as well. They fixed the full frontal damage denial. If you are careful with your shot, you can line it up over the shield for a headshot and disable the unit in one or two hits depending on how your weapon is modded. Ive been an avid lanka user since the beginning, and find it to be very effective. For corpus sorties, I generally spec magnetic/toxin. I dont usually have an issue OHK any enemy unit, especially with a headshot.

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

Seems to me there are 2 obvious bugs. First bursas ignore CC immunity,  which should have been fixed long ago. This stat is valued so high you need 3 mods equipped to gain full CC immunity. Max power efficiency is 2 slots for example. 

Second, they use event script that was endless respawn plus leveling up.

Bugs are bugs they need fixing. And punchthrough must work on them like on shield lancer, but require 2 meter punchthrough minimum.

[Dustii-chan]

Don't get me wrong, I like a good challenge. But Bursas... I get the feeling that they were made to reflect how the players are with their playstyles.

I'm still waiting for enemies to react like AI in Battlefield or something. Or hell, have each faction have their own sort of passive debuff; i.e. The Grineer have a suppression effect that causes your accuracy to decrease the longer you stand out in the line of fire, making it harder to hit the big 'uns from up close; the Corpus have armor points on their head AND their vital areas, which significantly decreases your damage against the head and chest until the armor is broken/knocked off; and the Infested... I dunno. They already swarm and have some CC through Ancient Hooks/MOA stomps.

[Renan.Ruivo]

14 hours ago, traybong111 said:

 

I just went through the thread again, and I apologize for the snarkiness as I've confused your posts with others'. I'm still getting used to the new forum lines. 

 

+1 for attitude. This is ideally what we hope people do when debating points of view. Everyone, be like that.

 

What that means is, we have a nice topic of debate going on here. Please everyone do try to be civil and apply the golden rule, if you will. Nobody wants a lock.

[Currilicious]

Bursas if done properly is fine.

It's not fine when they spawn indefinitely at a higher level than the tile and bring an army with them.

Broken Exterminate is broken.

[Silvus-Sol]

On 2/28/2016 at 0:33 PM, traybong111 said:

Try-hards praising something broken and meaningless to stroke their e-peen, nothing unusual here. 

I honestly don't see what "difficulty" and "tactics" they add. I play Ember and Frost mainly, and once I freeze or knock them down I can just ignore them, except when their level goes past 40 at which point I have to freeze/KD them every 3 seconds and shoot indefinitely in their rears to shut them up. Bursas in non-endless missions are just multiple annoying mechanics (buggy spawn, bullet sponge, CC-spam, fast regen) rolled into one. 

I'm not sure which is sadder: the sheer mess that is the scaling in this game that corners most attempts at challenge into various categories of annoying, or these "dunt listen to QQs!!1" type of players who need to cling to such broken things to find any semblance of challenge and self-worth. 

What the heck is with the personal attacks? Seriously, you need to chill.

I like Bursas because I think they are a good enemy that adds the right kind of difficulty. They are a step in the right direction in the effort to create enemies that can be difficult without relying exclusively on scaling. It's not about epeen or showing off my l337 gear at all (maybe it is for you since you're the one who brought it up and seems to think that way), it's about the game developing and growing in a good and progressive way. If DE caters to the teary-eyed then Bursas will get nerfed into oblivion like Manics and no longer be a threat. That would be a step backwards IMO and only further the problem with the game being too easy until the scaling gets ridiculous.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Silvus-Sol