Keysharing Not Supported/Protected by DE

[ZiiiiViiii]

Here is my previous thread I'll be referencing:

I made a thread about a person that scammed for keys in game with screenshots provided and everything and it was deleted because no naming and shaming.  My followup thread(The one above) I just wanted to know how to resolve the issue and everyone told me to go to support and they'll take care of it.  Here's what support told me:

So I'm just letting people know what DE staff has informed me because it's apparent that nobody else that responded to my thread or that I have talked to in game knew.  This is something that needs to be put out there and known by ALL players engaging in keysharing.  I would recommend that DE makes an official announcement about it so that people can stop getting ripped off and then seemingly ditched by the only people who should be able to help them out.  At least just tell people what Maurizio told me.  And God forbid they give an explanation as to why it is that way...

It's BEYOND irritating that you can't name a known scammer with proof via screenshots and/or that there is no streamlined system in place to assist in addressing matters such as this.  It's YOUR system with a flaw in it and honestly is probably the most common form of grouping for void missions via the recruitment tab.  How can you not want to address this?  It's like you're the big brother and my bike just got stolen but you are scared to say something to the guy because.....?  Anyway, you have a name change system already in place so naming people = money earned for DE.  There, now I gave a moral and fiscal reason why you should allow us to name these scammers.  Please explain.

I'm going to save this thread in case it gets deleted.

Thanks for your time,

 

ZiiiiViiii

Edited March 4, 2016 by Saske92
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[BlazerEraser]

Because keysharing is not a mechanic in the game, it's an agreement between players, there's no contract signed that forces DE to help you in this situation, if they do so it's because they are nice.

[Feallike]

Because it won't be supported. It is a player system. DE gives 0 **** about people leaving as far as their concerned you are playing the game normally and people are leaving. Reporting players for this is stupid.

[BlazerEraser]

I'm not saying that them not doing something about this is a problem, it's a risk you are willing to take, the same goes with trades.

[Orcais]

Then don't name and shame and play with people you trust?<< DE edit

Edited March 4, 2016 by Orcais
you changed my post and made me look like a fool people have the right to know that there are people who are not sharing there keys and taking advantage of others who are honest. thanks DE for treating me like a criminal

[ZiiiiViiii]

Well, the original intent was for me to add this person to whatever "Do not group with" list that someone already had.  I didn't expect to report them until I realized that you can't even tell the community not to group with someone because they refuse to adhere to community standards or they are just not trustworthy.

Reporting the individual only came in when that was was everyone in the previous thread told me to do.  But that means that they didn't know DE doesn't protect this activity and the people I talked to in game didn't know that either.  Keysharing has become so standardized that it seems everyone assumes that DE will provide assistance when they get scammed for keys.

[BlazerEraser]

You can ignore people you know.

[Tesseract7777]

Keysharing is a toxic player created idea that does nothing to help the game. 

When you think about it, it also artificially makes items way rarer... just think about it. 

It seems convenient but it isn't a good thing. Keysharing is toxic, and it won't ever be protected by DE... you do it at your own risk. Also accusations of scamming are utterly toxic as well. Some people are new and actually don't understand what keyshare means. Some of the high rank ones know, but connection issues happen and sometimes people can't just jump right back on. I've read stories of people who DC'd during a keyshare, and when they tried to rejoin and tell the host "hey let me rejoin I dc'd" the host had already put them on ignore, because they just assumed that they were a scammer, and then went and told all their friends. 

 

That's like the definition of toxic and one of the reasons DE doesn't encourage or protect keysharing. My advice is to not do it at all, but if you are going to, just accept the risks and move on if someone doesn't hold up. It's not worth letting your blood boil over. Just move on. 

 

And here's the other thing... DE has no need to make an announcement about keysharing, because they never supported it in the first place. It's entirely a player created idea that has been more trouble than it is worth for the majority of its existence. Why would they need to announce they don't support something that they have never taken any responsibility for, or done anything to code into the game? If they wanted keysharing, they would have done some coding to support it by now. My suggestion is to find a good clan if you are worried about trustworthy people. 

Edited March 4, 2016 by Tesseract7777

[direcyphre]

Keysharing: Do it with friends or people you trust. Nobody can be held accountable beyond yourself.

[ZiiiiViiii]

@Orcais "Play with people you trust" that's not a luxury that everyone has.  The recruitment tab exists for a reason and your statement essentially says "Don't use the recruitment tab".  I'm sure you realize how asinine that sounds...

[Tesseract7777]

1 minute ago, ZiiiiViiii said:

@Orcais "Play with people you trust" that's not a luxury that everyone has.  The recruitment tab exists for a reason and your statement essentially says "Don't use the recruitment tab".  I'm sure you realize how asinine that sounds...

Well you can always find a clan, which is a great way to play with trustworthy people. 

 

But no, he's not saying "don't use the recruitment tab", he's saying that if you want to recruit for a mission where everyone shares something and takes turns on the honor system, that you should maybe not just group up with randoms. 

Recruitment is great if you want help with something. You aren't asking for help. You are asking for others to share with you, and form a sort of honor pact for better looting. That's a lot to ask of strangers in terms of trust. 

Recruitment is great for a lot of things, but not for the player created concept of keysharing. 

[Orcais]

16 minutes ago, Orcais said:

Then don't name and shame and play with people you trust?

WOW that strange I actually posted the words of: shame them off DE web site use reddit or something? maybe.Looks like DE edited my post and I'm the scrub, DE: people have the right to know who is dirty or not! please do not edit my posts

Edited March 4, 2016 by Orcais

[Oranji]

GET A CLAN. Problem Solved. You're welcome.

[Silvus-Sol]

As others have said Keysharing is a player created honor system that DE is not obligated to enforce. That said, Keyshares can be a risk, but more often than not they fulfill their intended purpose. The purpose being to get more than one run from your key. If at least one other person in the Keyshare provided that, then I consider it a success.

When I host a public Keyshare I do so knowing there is a chance that someone could be a leech. I don't make people show keys or play 20 questions to find the leech either, it's not worth the time or effort. If someone is going to leech, they are going to leech; if they are going to share, they are going to share. If someone was a leech then I add them to my ignore list and never have to deal with them again, and I move on. It's scummy, but it's not that big of a deal in the long run. Don't stress about it.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Silvus-Sol

[ZiiiiViiii]

I guess my initial post wasn't clear or something? I'm not sure where the miscommunication was so I'll reiterate:

I understand that some of you may have already known that DE doesn't support keysharing.  But prior to you all posting, NOBODY I met or know knew about that.  Obviously threads like this make all the angry trolls come out to say nasty things and I know that but just in general the idea behind the thread is intended to be informative and hopefully get DE to just make it known to more people their unwillingness to protect these types of agreements.

 

@Tesseract7777 Why do I keep hearing about "Player created concept" used with a negative tone and connotation?  Many games including this one have implemented things based on a player created concept.  Features, items, enemies, bosses, etc.  All of these have been affected (Including this one) by player ideas.  Why do you (And others) feel the need to express that in such a way that it seems bad?  Some of the most impressive and fantastic ideas in many games were created from the concept a player provided.

Also, how does keysharing do nothing for the game?  That's completely baseless and just plain incorrect.  It helps get people their loot more efficiently and makes the most out of keys instead of just soloing the content.  Just because you don't utilize it or you don't like it doesn't mean it does nothing and was created by toxic players lol.  

[BlazerEraser]

Keysharing only help the rich get richer, all you are doing is enforcing that idea.

[ZiiiiViiii]

6 minutes ago, Oranji said:

GET A CLAN. Problem Solved. You're welcome.

It's actually quite difficult to find and KEEP an active clan of people that will not only respond to you in chat, but also join you in missions.  I spent a long time in a clan that was completely dead on the off chance that some of the people would come back and I would wait because they are/were my friends.  So I ended up solo'ing and using the recruitment tab for the better part of a couple months.  Thanks for your input though... I'm sure nobody ever thought of that before.

 

[Xekrin]

As people already stated, keysharing isn't a feature of the game, its what players have done to maximize loot obtained from a single key.  Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.

I have done a ton of keyshares while playing the game, and to be honest it is always a risk.  Players have even started asking that players "show their key" when the squad is full to ensure that everyone has one before they begin.  Even so, there can be a player who only has one key and joins those keyshares to leech off others and log out before using their key.  Its unfair but again, the risk you take, and honestly it doesn't happen very often.

I ran into my own keyshare problem a few days ago, everyone showed their keys, I clicked to show my key last and everyone just accepted instead of denying the mission and we started.  This used my key and should have been considered my turn in the rotation, but after 2 more runs I was told to use my key.  I told them I went first, the host said no way he went first, and accused me of not even having a key.  I proceeded to show my key and the other members became unsure, stating why would I lie, I had a key I wasn't trying to get around that.  They then said screw it, lets just call it, and so we all disbanded.

Long story short, even if one other person uses their key alongside yours, you got your "money's worth" so to speak, double the chance at whatever part you are farming.  If you are the only person who used a key and suddenly everyone else leaves, well, at least you ran yours.  Did you get the part you needed? No? Neither did they.  Yes?  Well, what does it matter?  There are people who just Host T3 and T4 missions without keyshare just to get the help to complete the mission.  There is no binding requirement other than the word of 3 total strangers (in most cases) that everyone uses a key.

Your situation is unfortunate and unfair, but like many things that people complain about on forums, a fact of life.  

[UnbeBleeder]

Every time this topic is raised I always say the same thing. Nothing is lost in this. You still used your key. Sure you get to go on more runs as the agreement stated, but you didn't lose anything so who cares. You just got swindled, but its not like you got swindled and lost something.

[ZiiiiViiii]

3 minutes ago, BlazerEraser said:

Keysharing only help the rich get richer, all you are doing is enforcing that idea.

How does it only help the rich get richer? If you only play for lets say 2 hours a day and you have to spend all your time grinding for a chance at the void key you need and then upon finally getting the one you need you use it and don't get what you want/need.  Is it not better in this situation to get 4 chances at the loot you require rather then one?  How is it in any way bad?  Before the idea of keysharing people would just get 3 extra people in their group, use their key and complete the mission.  Now players are sharing and cooperating and *probably* grouping more because of the idea.

Please explain how it "Only help the rich get richer".  This is not the first comment of that kind to be made.

[Tesseract7777]

10 minutes ago, ZiiiiViiii said:

I guess my initial post wasn't clear or something? I'm not sure where the miscommunication was so I'll reiterate:

I understand that some of you may have already known that DE doesn't support keysharing.  But prior to you all posting, NOBODY I met or know knew about that.  Obviously threads like this make all the angry trolls come out to say nasty things and I know that but just in general the idea behind the thread is intended to be informative and hopefully get DE to just make it known to more people their unwillingness to protect these types of agreements.

 

@Tesseract7777 Why do I keep hearing about "Player created concept" used with a negative tone and connotation?  Many games including this one have implemented things based on a player created concept.  Features, items, enemies, bosses, etc.  All of these have been affected (Including this one) by player ideas.  Why do you (And others) feel the need to express that in such a way that it seems bad?  Some of the most impressive and fantastic ideas in many games were created from the concept a player provided.

Also, how does keysharing do nothing for the game?  That's completely baseless and just plain incorrect.  It helps get people their loot more efficiently and makes the most out of keys instead of just soloing the content.  Just because you don't utilize it or you don't like it doesn't mean it does nothing and was created by toxic players lol.  

 

Your post was clear, and it isn't the right way to go about this. Demanding that DE make an announcement that they support something they have never said anything about supporting in any update, or anywhere official, is illogical. Demanding anything of DE isn't going to help you. Also, you or them announcing anything isn't going to have much long term effect. You might get a few people now, but new people play all the time and old players leave. 

 

No offense but it should be quite clear its player created, as there is nothing within the game to support it as a framework (no system to hold your keys and all of that, to make sure everyone is being honest, for example). DE already has announced, by the way, that they don't support most agreements that aren't within the trade system itself. You can see announcements about this on the forums. If you aren't trading official items within the trade dojo system or Maroo's Bazaar, they aren't going to honor it. They already have announced this, and people seem to still make the mistake, as you have said. So your announcement or theirs isn't going to make much difference. 

 

I am stressing it not to be insulting, but to emphasize that it is very much not supported by DE, and that they have no intention of doing so. Not to insult people who use it, but just to be clear that you can't expect them to have any part in it. And that it should be no surprise to anyone that they don't. 

 

Okay, I didn't say it did nothing for the game. I said it is a toxic system, and it IS. We are here right now with you mentioning that you just freshly tried to name and shame someone. That is TOXIC. Also, I gave an example of how people are often falsely accused and instantly and unfairly ignored. That is also toxic, you either didn't read any of that or you just plain ignored it. It is absolutely correct. It is bad for the game because it drives up the prices of everything. When you restrict your key to sharing or to solo, you artificially decrease the amount of items in the market  by an absurd amount. You don't realize what you are doing. You may think it helps you in the short term, but if you've ever bought anything, you are driving prices up for yourself in the long term. It's not rocket surgery. 

 

I actually share my keys. Do you know what sharing means? It means freely sharing what you have with others. It means I host my key and move on. And sometimes others let me join their game. That's what sharing is. What you want is an enforced mutual agreement. That is not sharing, that's a business contract. 

 

Anyways, it's clear you aren't reading my post or anyone elses, you just want to be angry at DE and the player who wronged you, and you won't listen to solutions or anything else. You just want to rant at DE. 
 

Also the idea that keysharing increases coop play is laughable. Anyone hosting a decent key knows tons of people will join almost instantly if it is freely offered. Keyshares are inefficient they slow you way down while you take ages to find a suitable group of people who all want to be part of your "share" (not really share). 

Edited March 4, 2016 by Tesseract7777

[BlazerEraser]

1 minute ago, ZiiiiViiii said:

How does it only help the rich get richer? If you only play for lets say 2 hours a day and you have to spend all your time grinding for a chance at the void key you need and then upon finally getting the one you need you use it and don't get what you want/need.  Is it not better in this situation to get 4 chances at the loot you require rather then one?  How is it in any way bad?  Before the idea of keysharing people would just get 3 extra people in their group, use their key and complete the mission.  Now players are sharing and cooperating and *probably* grouping more because of the idea.

Please explain how it "Only help the rich get richer".  This is not the first comment of that kind to be made.

Because you have to have the key in the first place to even consider keysharing, whereas simply tagging along with friends that have keys is also a nice thought, implementing this as an oficial system will do nothing but reinforce the alienation of new players, forcing them to hunt keys and play 4 rounds of something that maybe they don't really want to last that long.

[Oranji]

5 minutes ago, ZiiiiViiii said:

It's actually quite difficult to find and KEEP an active clan of people that will not only respond to you in chat, but also join you in missions.  I spent a long time in a clan that was completely dead on the off chance that some of the people would come back and I would wait because they are/were my friends.  So I ended up solo'ing and using the recruitment tab for the better part of a couple months.  Thanks for your input though... I'm sure nobody ever thought of that before.

 

So are we talking about a personal problem here? Sounds like we are.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

"Naming" these players is akin to bullying, in that these users are publically shamed for choices they have made/ were perceived to have made.
Starting these sorts of witch hunts is not constructive, and is not respecting our Privacy rule.

If a user feels another user has done wrong, they are more than welcome to contact Warframe's Support Desk. Should the Support Desk conclude the user has done nothing wrong in the light of all rules present, then that is the final verdict.

'Keysharing' is a player-made concept only, at this point, and will likely never be enforced by DE in the state it is in - the same as 'standards' for certain trades (x item costs x Plat). A person offering to sell for far higher than the norm is not in the wrong, nor are they scamming. The systems in place allow for a free market and the ability to do what they wish with their items. DE has not and will not set standards for the costs of these items, as it is now. The same as keys and when they are chosen to be used.

Alternatively, should there be a want for a 'keyshare' system in place so as to ascertain each member's key and place in the Squad, it would be best directed through a thread in the appropriate feedback subforum.

DE has already stated that 'trades for promises' are not enforced. Deductively, it could be figured that 'promises for promises' are also not enforced.

[ZiiiiViiii]

5 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Your post was clear, and it isn't the right way to go about this. Demanding that DE make an announcement that they support something they have never said anything about supporting in any update, or anywhere official, is illogical. Demanding anything of DE isn't going to help you. Also, you or them announcing anything isn't going to have much long term effect. You might get a few people now, but new people play all the time and old players leave. 

 

No offense but it should be quite clear its player created, as there is nothing within the game to support it as a framework (no system to hold your keys and all of that, to make sure everyone is being honest, for example). DE already has announced, by the way, that they don't support most agreements that aren't within the trade system itself. You can see announcements about this on the forums. If you aren't trading official items within the trade dojo system or Maroo's Bazaar, they aren't going to honor it. They already have announced this, and people seem to still make the mistake, as you have said. So your announcement or theirs isn't going to make much difference. 

 

I am stressing it not to be insulting, but to emphasize that it is very much not supported by DE, and that they have no intention of doing so. Not to insult people who use it, but just to be clear that you can't expect them to have any part in it. And that it should be no surprise to anyone that they don't. 

 

Okay, I didn't say it did nothing for the game. I said it is a toxic system, and it IS. We are here right now with you mentioning that you just freshly tried to name and shame someone. That is TOXIC. Also, I gave an example of how people are often falsely accused and instantly and unfairly ignored. That is also toxic, you either didn't read any of that or you just plain ignored it. It is absolutely correct. It is bad for the game because it drives up the prices of everything. When you restrict your key to sharing or to solo, you artificially decrease the amount of items in the market  by an absurd amount. You don't realize what you are doing. You may think it helps you in the short term, but if you've ever bought anything, you are driving prices up for yourself in the long term. It's not rocket surgery. 

 

I actually share my keys. Do you know what sharing means? It means freely sharing what you have with others. It means I host my key and move on. And sometimes others let me join their game. That's what sharing is. What you want is an enforced mutual agreement. That is not sharing, that's a business contract. 

 

Anyways, it's clear you aren't reading my post or anyone elses, you just want to be angry at DE and the player who wronged you, and you won't listen to solutions or anything else. You just want to rant at DE. 

You are one of those trolls I mentioned in a previous post aren't you?  You keep taking things to extremes and putting words in my mouth.  I stopped reading your wall of text half way through because it's nonsense.  Please go back and read my posts again before you dribble onto your keyboard further.  Thanks. Also:

"Keysharing is a toxic player created idea that does nothing to help the game."

Is exactly what you said in your first post.  Please stop trolling and just trying to instigate.  It's pointless.  Thanks for your input though.