Is there Counter-Play to Shock Eximus?

[Specific.Zod]

People who trying to defenses currently shock eximus should know this:

It's totally ruined the melee gameplay, totally. Not gun play, as if gun play ever has any struggle in the first place outside nulifier.

In condition:

-No shadowstep (not everyone go naramon, we go unairu for 15% armour reduction and 30% stun).

- No Trinity (she is broken), or Limbo (1,2,3 players play him?)

There is no way a melee frame can survival if they accidentally fail into shock eximus aura. Even Valkyr warcry or hysteria is completely shut off no matter what.

Shock Eximus drain :all energy, all shield and buzz screen in once instantly. even if you kill it fast enough, 98% you are dead because they do not go alone.

Nulifier: block skill using. but if you kill it fast enough, you can recast skill -> CC and self-buff, you are good.

leech eximus: leech energy overtime (and now they even leech energy from toggled ability) kill them fast enough, you are good.

Ancient Disruptor: They need to hit you with right hand, even magnetic proc are pretty much guarantee, you can avoid it and kill it, you are good.

There is no skill involved in counter play Shock eximus as melee frames, because basically there is none. Shock eximus is there to remove melee gameplay (w/o relying on shadowstep) entirely.

[Giantconch]

2 minutes ago, Nomen_Nescio said:

... there's nothing special in running melee only with naramon, no matter the tower.

 

Compliment with criticism. At times can be referred to as "not being a prick"

Edited March 8, 2016 by giantconch

[Specific.Zod]

13 minutes ago, TermiteFrame said:

But don't you guys always try to enforce the use of corrosive projection? How is that any different than enforcing anything else?

Enforcing the use of CP because there is no aura worth using over in this broken scaling system. Both of these are totally diffirent things.

[sekushiiandee]

22 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

but people that aren't Limbo and Trin are successfully getting past these enemies. They obviously havent stopped you either, so i dont know what some of you are going on about. What it boils down to is that you are upset that something gave you a challenge. You're upset that maybe every once in awhile, you need to enter a room ANTICIPATING what the enemy will throw at you.

Im not sorry that you cant easily walk over all the content without thinking or preparing (with very little thought and prep required) in this game. Either figure out a way past it...or just run to the forum to cry every time you waste a single revive. 

^ actually i have burned all my revives through instadeath on sortie missions. so did my team multiple times

there are ways to get past it in earlier levels yes, but when you get higher and higher you start to get shredded.  thank you for not trying to answer my question what so ever

and yes i can anticipate the enemy thats coming.....but as a stealth player what happens them? as a speed runner with volt what then? what if you were a saryn melee player? what of any melee player? then what will i do with eximus strongholds where theres a ton of shocks? energy restores wont do much

levels 1-60 ish can be strategized easily in one way or another....but its difficult and doable

when you scale it higher....its not gonna happen and ill tell you why.....give me someone thats been playing high levels without using their abilities? without getting shredded to piece without their energy protecting them? or even their shield?

there is a fine line between difficulty and ridiculousness......im not asking to easily run over them....im asking for balance like many people here are asking for....trying to give constructive feedback in order to rebalance the game....not make it easy

 

22 minutes ago, TermiteFrame said:

^But don't you guys always try to enforce the use of corrosive projection? How is that any different than enforcing anything else?

^ who the hell is you guys? i dont personally enforce CP usage for everyone, but yes i see your point....which is what I hate about the game mechanics is that it locks our gameplay into styles like these....forcing people to use S#&$ that they dont want to....when it comes to raids....it makes sense to have team play and coordination....even when it comes to long term mission play....there are no other ways to further the progress than to even out the playing field with CP

youre just contributing to my argument that shock eximus are inhibiting our playstyles....and thats also the point of this complaint for shock eximus....its narrowing gameplay to specific styles....why give us all these warframes with all these different abilities and attributes just to let us not use them at all in an instant.

Edited March 8, 2016 by sekushiiandee

[Kontrollo]

21 minutes ago, sekushiiandee said:

^ name a counter for these situations please that does not involve specific frames or weapons.  if I were to use ANY warframe and ANY weapon.....

Levels 1-30? Levels 30-80? Levels 80+?  Show me these strategies to prepare you that dont limit the player to specific frames and weapons....please do so

this is the point of the argument here is the fact that it is a choke hold......you arent being creative when you see everyone going into a corpus mission as a limbo or a trin to negate effects.

Loka's Ancient Healer Specter technically fulfills your requirements. :P

[Sormatte]

Just now, Kontrollo said:

Loka's Ancient Healer Specter technically fulfills your requirements. :P

I doubt its going to be very viable when you're running around though.

[Kontrollo]

10 minutes ago, Sormatte said:

I doubt its going to be very viable when you're running around though.

Just playing devil's advocate. I've previously posted in this thread when it was still in Players Helping Players, pointing out that Oberon's Hallowed Ground works against it. And that is useful for the whole team, as we all know. But my actual stance on it is the following:

I don't mind these Eximus units having this mechanic, it is evadeable and its range is smaller than their aura, so there is a warning. Just the Magnetic proc effect itself is way too strong. Extended version over here:

Edited March 8, 2016 by Kontrollo

[traybong111]

1 hour ago, TermiteFrame said:

So just got out of my 61 minute T4 solo melee only run. I sincerely had no issue except for the one guy who nailed me on my way to extraction, ran into about maybe 6 of the walking magnetic procs, literally was not bothered in the slightest. Here is the results page from my excursion. (I hope I posted this screenshot correctly)

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Good job, you out-cheesed a cheesy enemy with perma-invisibility! That surely means the enemy's in no way problematic or limiting in loadouts! Good job!!

Dear god it's like watching some Borderlands 2 Gunzerker player claim OP8 raid's too easy. So much cringe. 

[Slaviar]

49 minutes ago, TermiteFrame said:

But don't you guys always try to enforce the use of corrosive projection? How is that any different than enforcing anything else?

It's because without it enemies become almost unkillable. Because scaling is broken. Just as Shock Eximii

[Ozamchist]

6 hours ago, traybong111 said:

 

Good job, you out-cheesed a cheesy enemy with perma-invisibility! That surely means the enemy's in no way problematic or limiting in loadouts! Good job!!

Dear god it's like watching some Borderlands 2 Gunzerker player claim OP8 raid's too easy. So much cringe. 

If you want I could do it with Mesa without shadow step (or peacemaker) will that still be cheese. Actually I sincerely need a list of things I would need to do for it not to be cheese in these T4. Because you guys asked for counter play. I gave you some counter play. Then I got discredited on the basis of said counter play.

 

6 hours ago, Slaviar said:

It's because without it enemies become almost unkillable. Because scaling is broken. Just as Shock Eximii

Also no you don't actually need corrosive projection, but I understand that you (and probably everyone here is going) to point blank refuse to accept or even try to understand that viewpoint.

[hukurokuju5]

there is no telegraphed range like nullifiers have.  

this makes counterplay very unclear

[Specific.Zod]

37 minutes ago, TermiteFrame said:

If you want I could do it with Mesa without shadow step (or peacemaker) will that still be cheese. Actually I sincerely need a list of things I would need to do for it not to be cheese in these T4. Because you guys asked for counter play. I gave you some counter play. Then I got discredited on the basis of said counter play.

 

Also no you don't actually need corrosive projection, but I understand that you (and probably everyone here is going) to point blank refuse to accept or even try to understand that viewpoint.

How so w/o CP. I don't consider shadow step here. So you mean we need full CC? Broken scaling is what force us to use CP, even if we don't want to, just like how this shock eximus force us to have "shadowstep with a crit based melee" or gun-and-run.

[Flirk2]

31 minutes ago, TermiteFrame said:

Also no you don't actually need corrosive projection, but I understand that you (and probably everyone here is going) to point blank refuse to accept or even try to understand that viewpoint.

You assume that everyone has naramon up to shadow step? From the start?

Juts FYI: Shock eximus is not exclusive to 60 min t4. It can happen to those poor little tenno of mr4 going through the star chart for the first time. You know, those who don't have life strike, arkanes, syndicate weapons, any type of focus, nor max Vitality. They could not even have a clan, so they don't have access to medium restores. And who actually struggle with planets like Jupiter. Who would find it challenging even when there were no bursa, nullifiers and insta-mag shock eximi there. Basically those players for whom the star chart actually exists.

But people like you turn the Ruk on and go "I deserve a challenge", and advocate the most ridiculous enemies added to missions that are not supposed to be challenging in the slightest if you have experience of 500+ hours.

Do you advocate for new planets with these new enemies? Maybe new nodes with higher starting level and things like bursa pushed to level 40+? Maybe void V, VI, VII? No. You defend enemies that screw those who don't happen to have experience, maxed mods, weapons, a selection of frames, arcanes, focus and so on. And never will because the difficulty for new players keep rising. I know I would not get to my level if there were all those new enemies when I started. Nor would I ever have shadow step with new and awesome focus gathering system.

All I hear when I read these nullifier/bursa/shock eximus defenders is Tyl Regor's voice saying: "Having fun while playing this game? No-no-no-no. That would be too humane. Your experience will be... painful.''

 

And for those who think EV trinity is the answer? You'll die a lot before your trinity recovers from that magnetic proc and finds the energy to start EV again. And if your internet connection is not too good? Your solo experience will be... painful.

[Sunfaiz]

9 hours ago, sekushiiandee said:

^ name a counter for these situations please that does not involve specific frames or weapons.  if I were to use ANY warframe and ANY weapon.....

Levels 1-30? Levels 30-80? Levels 80+?  Show me these strategies to prepare you that dont limit the player to specific frames and weapons....please do so

this is the point of the argument here is the fact that it is a choke hold......you arent being creative when you see everyone going into a corpus mission as a limbo or a trin to negate effects.

Summed it up great !

[UrbanShade]

The only counter to them right now is Naramon's Shadow Step. Soo good, that i have Deadly Intent 2/3 and Shadow Step as 3/3, and also Mind Spike mastery at 3/3, so i need to wait just 255 secs, not full 300+ seconds to activate passives. Tryed to do todays Sorti's survival with melee only condition. So good, that i have Nikana Prime (one of the best melee weapons ingame) with very specific crit heavy build. Oh, and i was frost, and other teammates was 2 frosts, with maximal range (250%), and we covered half of map with our bubbles with help of EVing trinity with also War and shadow step), and i dont care, that not everybody has maxed Naramon (school diversity, anyone?), and crit heavy top tier weapons (with really hard to obtain and level up *cough* Blood Rush or Maiming Strike *cough* mods).

/Sarcasm off/

Tryed mission 5 or 6 times, and i gived up, but our lobby found good MR21 player with alot of experience with trinity. And we was rank 20, 19 and 20 players. Lol. 

Thnx DE. Im will NEVER go into any corpus mission, that is not sortie, alert or event. You ruined whole faction with damn bursas, ok. But now its practically unplayable, thnx again. Hell with towers, will just do excavations against infested, because they havent so much BS enemies and cheaptrick tatcics, as corpus has.

BTW, this is really bad decision to return this freaking proc. Lol. In this case i want my magnetic damage to have same level of OPness. If i mod my weapon for magnetic, im want to interrupt enemies special abilities (teleportation of manic, heal of ancient, shield of nullifier, fire explosion of arson, poison spits of infested crawlers, etc, scramble their aim capability and wear of shields of corpus. Why im just cripple corpus shields by a bit now? I want ALL possibillities, that enemy can do to my poor warframe.

Damn, this procs are going through iron skin now... Why, DE, WHY? 

[Vicious_Vipa]

On 6.3.2016 at 1:13 AM, Vyrndragon said:

The counter play is to kill them before they get close and actually pay attention. They aren't an issue if you keep an eye out and keep your distance.

Personally, I'm glad to see that they are working again.

keep an eye out ???

I am still keeping an eye out, looking for a dislike-button.

They are too difficult to notice.  That's just a fact.

And nothing in the game should be so powerful and impossible to counteract - especially not field-units that aren't bosstype.

 

 

[Vicious_Vipa]

On 6.3.2016 at 1:29 AM, Storchenbein said:

.... turns out it was another one of these glorious "fixes" that barely anyone needed/wanted.

well, a fix to the energy overflow was needed,
so that people would start playing the game again instead of just "pushing their button" without even aiming.

( I know, some people would attack me, saying "how dare you know what playing that game means", etc.
but I can only hope that it does NOT mean to push one button over and over )

 

But THIS execution (of a fix) is just the cheapest and worst possible.

[Sunfaiz]

18 minutes ago, Vicious_Vipa said:

well, a fix to the energy overflow was needed,
so that people would start playing the game again instead of just "pushing their button" without even aiming.

( I know, some people would attack me, saying "how dare you know what playing that game means", etc.
but I can only hope that it does NOT mean to push one button over and over )

 

But THIS execution (of a fix) is just the cheapest and worst possible.

Balancing at it's finest.

[-Temp0-]

2 hours ago, Vicious_Vipa said:

well, a fix to the energy overflow was needed,
so that people would start playing the game again instead of just "pushing their button" without even aiming.

( I know, some people would attack me, saying "how dare you know what playing that game means", etc.
but I can only hope that it does NOT mean to push one button over and over )

 

But THIS execution (of a fix) is just the cheapest and worst possible.

I don't really see what energy overflow has to do with anything. I really - really doubt that many new players have it, as there are many that didn't even pick a school yet. I have it myself, leveled only energy overflow and mastery and it by no means something game-breaking. At best, it saves you energy restores in solo mod - and that is ONLY if your power is cheap. If you use something energy "expensive" like slow nova's ult or vauban's 3 or 4th you'll get a lil help but by no means will be able to jsut "sit there and spam spam spam". Same for power-"creep" frames like Ember, Excal and so on. And you practically ought to have primed flow to even make use of zenurik's passive. Which again, means you're by that point have all the energy efficiency mods + access to prime mods. That is end-game content (and don't tell me that many people can level primed mods, since it takes god knows how many credits to get it and level up, as well at cores). Which leads to my point here, energy owerflow saves you energy pads. That's about it. As cool as it sounds - 4 energy per sec, it's not nearly as cool as it might look.

[Diarist]

Anyone who is defending this change, I am genuinely concerned for you and you should probably start re-evaluating your life decisions. No one should ever tolerate mediocrity and degeneracy from anything, ever.

I love how DE says this was an "Age old bug." Excuse me?  It was not an "age old bug." We got them to remove it eons ago because of how ridiculously STUPID it was. They must seriously, genuinely think we're stupid and don't/wouldn't remember this, and this just further supports my argument that DE has 0 respect for their players, only malice and resentment. Why would we not remember getting you to get rid of this garbage, DE? It was the most toxic and pants on head decision you guys have ever made, and to be frank it still is. They make Slombas/Nullies look like some Bayonetta quality enemy design here in comparison. This wasn't fun or interesting or intuitive back in ye olde times and it isn't fun or interesting or intuitive now. It was always really really dumb and shows a lack of integrity or talent by whoever came up with this in the first place. Why in the hell were they re-added? Do YOU guys not remember the insane amount of backlash you got regarding these when you first added eximi? Did you drink a magic "forget this" serum? Did you forget how to design a video game while you were at it?

Hey DE, just a friendly tip: adding more stupid cheese to enemies that we have no way of reacting to, anticipating, or reason for even existing, esp ones that we already got you to get rid of, is not making this game more interesting to play. Just makes folks not wanna play at all, really. I already tell people to avoid this game as it is, you're not making yourselves look much better when I can now add to my argument, "Oh yeah and there's an enemy that just completely wipes your energy, shields, and vision. For no reason at that. Literally none." Hey DE, you plan on adding a fun or interesting enemy design at some point, like, ever? 

How fun when a single faction is designed to be nothing but cheese that it dissuades me from ever playing anything regarding that faction ever again. I skipped Sorties yesterday. I saw it was an "Eximus Stronghold." I also saw a "Melee only" Survival. Literal trainwrecks waiting to happen. Just, no. I refuse. I have my limits to how much nonsensical BS I can tolerate.

Such quality game design.

But no, all of us raising our genuine disgust with DE's decision making are just "entitled" right? We should just go make a healthy purchase of platinum and support these pants on head design choices. :^)

 

 

Edited March 8, 2016 by Diarist

[ShortCat]

And while everyone freaks out about "unbugged" ShockEximus, noone is talking about increased spawns of other units, e.g. Nullifiers all over the place in the void now.

[Havenless]

3 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

And while everyone freaks out about "unbugged" ShockEximus, noone is talking about increased spawns of other units, e.g. Nullifiers all over the place in the void now.

Last night I was going to do a 60 min T3 Survival with my new melee Inaros build with a couple buddies (another Melee Inaros and a Trin Prime). at around 45 minutes I had to fight 2x Nullifier Shock Eximus that were stacked on top of each other hiding an Arson Bombard Eximus + 2 other Bombards under their shields.  After 50 minutes, we had to extract... not because it was getting hard to kill things, but because no one ever had any energy due to Shock Eximus appearing every 30 seconds or so and having our hud/vision scrambled 50% or more of the time... It wasn't hard, it just made me not want to play anymore until they fix this garbage. After 3+ years and 1250+ hours I might just be done with the game if this doesn't get resolved.

DE, you magnetic proc'd the fun out of the game.

[Ozamchist]

6 hours ago, Flirk2 said:

-snip-

No of course I don't assume you have naramon, but the question posed was if there was a counter play, and I found one. I also believe there are several other work arounds.

Yes I do believe newer players should face these enemy types. Because I respect the newer players ability and right to adapt. A newer player should be able to adapt even easier to these enemies if they don't have a notion instilled in them that they can't die in this game. Learning comes from making mistakes.

You make it sound like I sit from lofty perch and mock new players, but who's mocking here I believe they can overcome these enemy types while you are content to belittle them and whine.

[BlackCoMerc]

This effect needs to be patched out immediately. It accomplishes the following:

-Makes melee frames utterly useless

-Makes Mesa incredibly dangerous and borderline useless (her power is her only tank)

-Makes Nezha useless. Like Mesa, her powers are her only shield. Lose your energy and you die right away.

-Makes Loki useless. He needs energy to remain invisible. His only Tank. See above about others.

-Makes Valkyr useless. Nullifers were already pushing her in this direction. Couple those with this effect on the same map and...bring something else. 

Not only does this ability do all of these things. It also robs players of any control over whether these things happen to us. We are simply stuck with it. Our energy and shields are fried through walls, from behind on crowded maps, by enemies we could not even see yet. There is counter play or nor any amount of skill involved in late game play; its all knockdown spam and pure dumb luck with stuff like this.

One day Warframe's late game will be held up as an example in game development classes. Its full of excellent examples of things you should NEVER do increase "difficulty" in a game.

[Flirk2]

2 hours ago, TermiteFrame said:

No of course I don't assume you have naramon, but the question posed was if there was a counter play, and I found one. I also believe there are several other work arounds.

Yes I do believe newer players should face these enemy types. Because I respect the newer players ability and right to adapt. A newer player should be able to adapt even easier to these enemies if they don't have a notion instilled in them that they can't die in this game. Learning comes from making mistakes.

You make it sound like I sit from lofty perch and mock new players, but who's mocking here I believe they can overcome these enemy types while you are content to belittle them and whine.

First things first. Naramon shadow step with a crit-built weapon is not a counter play to shock eximus. It is a god mode. (I'm all for it. But I think there should be more then one god mode in a game where you play not as a hapless under armed soldier in a world war, but as an apex predator of a post apocalyptic world.)

And the respect for new players comment makes me laugh through tears. Really. You are respecting new players by expecting them to be able to adapt to no-shield no-energy no-vision condition in the middle of the mission with no chance of evasion? That's a new definition of respect.

There is no adaptation to this. None. You suddenly find yourself in a nightmare mode. Only not in a generic one. But in a combination of energy drain and no shields condition.

And that against a faction that is notorious for weapons that deal heavy damage to health? I have no words.

I know for a fact that I would not play this game anymore if I faced the star chart as it is now. I know for a fact that there are many players that won't find any problem with it.

But I see you don't want anyone interested in just playing the game and having fun without the need to "adapt" to play this game. And the more I read replies like yours the more I think that I should really move back to tetris and minesweeper. Those at least are in no danger of getting bursa and shock eximus nullifiers any time soon.