This newest hotfix pushes Draco farm even more.

[NinthAria]

1 minute ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

It's less of a grind than draco because more things can go wrong if you don't pay attention, and there are minor variations in the routes you choose to patrol the room. It's not prefect by any means, but it's definitely less grindy feeling than Draco. Unless you're AFKing and do something else, but at that point you're not playing the game anymore.

I didn't mean compared to Draco, I meant compared to just stealth-running your mission type of choice (spies for instance) to completion. Compared to Draco pretty much everything looks fun and engaging.

[warp_cat]

Why only Draco ? Naramon + crit melee + hight level survival = normal farm focus.Without boosters. Solo. Just lil more time.


But i agree with this theme... his hotfix bright more grinding.

[SSI_CosmicKitten]

1 hour ago, KutieKat said:

I don't understand why DE would remove enemies from respawning in already cleared rooms in spy missions

So, you want a "Press 3 to Win" Game? What's the fun of exploiting a script if you never get to do more than hit E everytime somebody spawns or press 3 for Excalibur to kill everything there?. 

The idea behind the patch is to make players PLAY the game instead of EXPLOIT the game for their benefits, the game is about going around the space, different Tilesets while killing people and not "Staying still and pressing 3" (Except for Draco which is the classic Farm "Allowed "Spot)

[Omnimorph]

What they should do is decrease affinity cost for levelling up weapons and frames for each extra forma you put in.  Then you could just play normally.

[Koopiskeva]

I personaly prefer Draco than Loki solo farming Focus, which i used to do very often but I really prefer to play with other players :)

That's not hard to make focus farm more enjoyable, just set the amount of focus on normal kill (non stealth) as high as the stealth ones and then you can farm this in any void/other mission than Draco and with other people.

We are on a MMO game and the only way to get decent amount of focus in a group is Draco...that's really sad.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Feardorcha

[KutieKat]

14 minutes ago, SpaceJinja said:

So, you want a "Press 3 to Win" Game? What's the fun of exploiting a script if you never get to do more than hit E everytime somebody spawns or press 3 for Excalibur to kill everything there?. 

The idea behind the patch is to make players PLAY the game instead of EXPLOIT the game for their benefits, the game is about going around the space, different Tilesets while killing people and not "Staying still and pressing 3" (Except for Draco which is the classic Farm "Allowed "Spot)

Where did I say press 3 to win? I think you need to re read what I posted. I was saying using RJ excal as sarcasm. And I've never used Deception to press "e" when someone spawns in. I was talking about spy missions respawns. In case you don't know, enemies use to spawn in an alerted state. You could not just kill them as they spawned in or you would lose the stealth exp kill multiplier. You would actually have to "play" as you say it by going around looking for unalerted enemies to kill, choosing a route, and exploring a bit. It was fun. After some time, you may come back and kill the respawns when they are unalerted. 

You completely missed my point which is that DE is taking away viable options to farm and do missions and keeps on making Draco more and more the place to go. That or you just chose to ignore it and say what you wanted to say.

Edited March 8, 2016 by KutieKat

[--RV--LadySpiderwick]

3 minutes ago, Omnimorph said:

What they should do is decrease affinity cost for levelling up weapons and frames for each extra forma you put in.  Then you could just play normally.

The only thing I'd say about this suggestion is while I agree that levelling up forma-d weapons and warframes would be lovely, the question is what if you forma the weapon max 6 times, how much percentage less each time would it take to level up a forma-d item? If that twas addressed I'd say hell yeah make forma-ing things better and more efficiently.

25 minutes ago, DxAdder said:

Draco isn't the problem, it's the fact the rest of the star map cant yield anywhere near the affinity that Draco can.

Why ? The 50m share rule, this needs to go, this game is full of lone wolf hallway hero's that do nothing but leech affinity from the group.

Other than Draco there no reason to group up, you will always make more affinity solo.

 

 

I can agree with this on the whole matter of not many other missions seem to yield as good as Draco. Until I started using this level I had an idea WHY it was popular, but I think that other missions should be good for resource/xp. Draco is good for it and I'd be kidding myself if I didn't use it to max out frames and weapons I forma-d because simply I didn't want to spend too long between maxing them out. 

[pumaferd]

25 minutes ago, NinthAria said:

So doing the same mission over and over is a grind, but staying in the same room for an extended period of time murdering respawns ad infinitum is...not a grind?

Don't get me wrong, I can completely understand that it might not feel like a grind, but...really, the only thing that's changed here is that at some point you have to actually progress the mission now.

I don't recall saying I stay in the same room.  I run through a large portion of the level.  I progress the mission when I'm ready to leave.  The difference is fairly substantial in that you can keep long streaks.  In the old way, you can leave groups of alerted enemies and go find more elsewhere.  If you alert enemies with the new way, tough turkeys, you're probably going to lose your streak as you scramble to find any more enemies on the desolate map.

So yeah, that's not fun at all losing streaks and basically having no option to keep them going.  The maps are desolate now.  The only purpose to Spy is to grind out keys and vaults.

The old way is exponentially higher in affinity alone.  12k from one stealth vault on Lex, that's ~4 lancers with 5x multiplier or one gunner/napalm and one of any other enemy.  Yes, there is a difference.  You cannot have 100 stealth kill streaks.  It doesn't have to be Spy -- it's stealth kills.  Doing Spy just made more sense because you get the extra 36k affinity and a key.

[Sixty5]

51 minutes ago, KutieKat said:

Because it was fun gaining and keeping the 500% exp multiplier for kills as long as you can. It gave tons of focus and affinity that way. That was the reason for stealth spy farming pre nerf. Now, empty rooms and no reason to stay to farm for focus/affinity. Think of it this way, each spy vault gives you 12k affinity if undetected. A scorch at 5x multiplier gives you about 10k. Same with the heavy gunners, 10k. You just go aroudn the map looking for them and killing them. It was fun and effective. And way faster then rushing the map. It was comparable to Draco but you could do it solo without Draco drama.

I ran spies to rank up my Rapier after coming back, even without those cheese tactics, I got it to 30 in a couple of hours

I don't disagree on the changes, but I also am not a huge fan of spamming one mission with aoe skills for cheap kills. 

[AuroraSonicBoom]

6 minutes ago, NinthAria said:

I didn't mean compared to Draco, I meant compared to just stealth-running your mission type of choice (spies for instance) to completion. Compared to Draco pretty much everything looks fun and engaging.

Ah. Well, at some point the efficiency of the grind outweighs the inefficiency of the fun gameplay, and for a good bunch of people that threshold was deception tile xp farming. I mean, hey, if normal gameplay would be anyway near as rewarding as one tile stealth xp farming I'd sacrifice that extra bit of efficiency for more fun. I still level up some weapons with spy missions, but it's simply too slow for my liking when it comes to focus farming. Stealth running other missions had the drawback that you had to look for enemies while traversing tiles, severely increasing risk of getting detected while the inconsistency of spawns caused by vastly varying map topology slowed down your focus gain. Compare that to settling in on one tile and patrolling it, the reduction in grind was just not worth the price.

[KutieKat]

4 minutes ago, Sixty5 said:

I ran spies to rank up my Rapier after coming back, even without those cheese tactics, I got it to 30 in a couple of hours

I don't disagree on the changes, but I also am not a huge fan of spamming one mission with aoe skills for cheap kills. 

Hmm... tell me again how you can use your aoe skills for cheap kills and rank up your rapier at the same time if you are playing solo? All your affinity will go to your frame and none to your weapon. So by all means, spam all those cheap aoe skills and get no affinity for ranking up weapons with frame skills.

When you play spy to level your missions with stealth multiplier, you should be using your weapon you want to level and not aoe skills for cheap kills as you put it. Putting silence on them, and actually killing enemies with it, racking up the multiplier.

Edited March 8, 2016 by KutieKat

[Naruchico]

Hey guys....how about we just say the truth here, focus is a horrible system that DE just plain needs to remove and then none of this will matter, it was poorly designed, poorly implemented, and frankly DE don't understand how to make a proper "team" based anything because convergence was a horrible "team" design that only a half-wit would think is a good idea....so end it, remove focus problem solved.

[pumaferd]

2 minutes ago, Sixty5 said:

I ran spies to rank up my Rapier after coming back, even without those cheese tactics, I got it to 30 in a couple of hours

I don't disagree on the changes, but I also am not a huge fan of spamming one mission with aoe skills for cheap kills. 

That's exactly what I mean by the definition of tedium.  Just how many Spy runs did you have to do to get it to 30 in a couple hours?  It takes ~20 minutes to max a weapon with long kill streaks...  And yes, there are faster ways, but 20 minutes to have some fun running long stealth streaks is perfectly fine by me as opposed to the annoyance on Draco.

@Naruchico, yeah it needs changes, but that's besides the point for me.  I honestly wouldn't care if they disabled focus on stealth kills -- I enjoy stealth kills for stealth kills.  If I want focus there are other options that are better IMO.

[Sixty5]

2 minutes ago, KutieKat said:

Hmm... tell me again how you can use your aoe skills for cheap kills and rank up your rapier at the same time if you are playing solo? All your affinity will go to your frame and none to your weapon. So by all means, spam all those cheap aoe skills and get no affinity for ranking up weapons with frame skills.

When you play spy to level your missions with stealth multiplier, you should be using your weapon you want to level and not aoe skills for cheap kills as you put it. Putting silence on them, and actually killing enemies with it, racking up the multiplier.

Like I said, I used spy to rank up my Rapier, and tend to avoid crap like Draco after powerfarming became widespread.

The reason I don't disagree with the nerf is that thematically, spymissions should be about getting into the vault, not ignoring them for 12 hours whilst killing everything from stealth. 

I'd rather run spies than crap like Draco for exp, but in the case of abusing spawn mechanics to boost your gains, it is a bit exploity  

[--RV--LadySpiderwick]

7 minutes ago, Naruchico said:

Hey guys....how about we just say the truth here, focus is a horrible system that DE just plain needs to remove and then none of this will matter, it was poorly designed, poorly implemented, and frankly DE don't understand how to make a proper "team" based anything because convergence was a horrible "team" design that only a half-wit would think is a good idea....so end it, remove focus problem solved.

If they remove the system then at least they in part should credit players who bought the greater lens, I bought a fair few over the time because I don't run the sorties enough to collect the Unairu lens. When I say this I don't mean it in the "I'm self entitled because I support DE" but because for 40plat each I've spent a bit to get my focus and it'd be a waste of plat AND time to have it removed.

Edited March 8, 2016 by LittleArachnid
Clarified my reasoning for response

[ArchPhaeton]

I honestly found calling this an "exploit" as an straight insult to our intelligence.

It was pretty much the only other  viable way to earn focus and XP besides dracoframe and the usual mind-numbing infinite missions.

Really, really disappointed! Do they intend us to stay enslaved 24/7 to achieve things in this game?

[--RV--LadySpiderwick]

3 minutes ago, ArchPhaeton said:

I honestly found calling this an "exploit" as an straight insult to our intelligence.

It was pretty much the only other  viable way to earn focus and XP besides dracoframe and the usual mind-numbing infinite missions.

Really, really disappointed! Do they intend us to stay enslaved 24/7 to achieve things in this game?

It would be like calling Helene or Cupid an exploit because one can farm plastids there

[GinKenshin]

I wish DE would just tell us how they want us to play their game. ofc, we don't have to play it their way, but I'd just like an insight on how they think a game like WARFRAME (which is full of farm) should be played 

 

[pumaferd]

4 minutes ago, Sixty5 said:

Like I said, I used spy to rank up my Rapier, and tend to avoid crap like Draco after powerfarming became widespread.

The reason I don't disagree with the nerf is that thematically, spymissions should be about getting into the vault, not ignoring them for 12 hours whilst killing everything from stealth. 

I'd rather run spies than crap like Draco for exp, but in the case of abusing spawn mechanics to boost your gains, it is a bit exploity  

Well I guess we'll have to disagree because I don't see how this response addresses the points I've brought up.  I personally do not want to do 20 spy missions to level a weapon.  I can say that doing one mission for 20 minutes vs doing countless missions for 2 hours repeating the same thing is objectively more tedious, even if during the 20 minutes all I am doing is killing enemies in the same manner.

What I also dislike about these sorts of responses is your reasoning: "spy missions should be about getting into the vault".  So for an opinion on how something should be in your opinion you would nerf something for everyone else in solo mode that has no impact on how you play the game (you can do the same thing you did before now), but does impact how other players play the game solo.  That's not even mentioning your reasoning fails to address that this affects all mission types that were nerfed, not just spy.

[Stratego89]

2 hours ago, Educated_Beast said:

So in your mind, removing an option to farm for focus (i.e. stealth solo play), which is very dynamic requiring lots of movement and timing, makes the game more dynamic???

You're.... you're joking right? "Dynamic" "requiring lots of movement and timing". You mean loading into a mission, pressing 2, and walking behind everything at a casual pace pressing your melee button and occasionally hiding behind a corner to press 2 again?

Seriously. Loki stealth exploit is no better than draco in the laz- erm... "efficiency" factor. The only thing that makes draco worse is the toxicity and elitism that it breeds on the side.

 

Here's my personal suggestion for DE. Make farming focus impossible. It's an end game system that's meant to take a long time to level up and you should know better by now- DE- that your players carry a mentality that makes it physically impossible for them to resist exhausting themselves over something pointless by grinding something they'd get anyways by playing their normal missions; for no reason other than because they see a bar that isn't filled.

[F-Minus]

2 hours ago, KutieKat said:

I don't understand why DE would remove enemies from respawning in already cleared rooms in spy missions. Spy in the past was a good way to farm affinity, focus, and level up weapons and avoid the toxic environment that is Draco. Then came the shared affinity "rework" which nerfed stealth affinity farm. It pushed us to go to Draco more. However, spy was still worth running because it gave good rewards such as tower keys and different mods and could still rank up weapons quickly. But with this newest "hotfix" and non respawning enemies, it seems DE is just pushing us more and more to live on Draco for our farming needs.

This makes no sense considering how much DE has changed frames, skills, and committed reworks to try to kill Draco farming.You got a Saryn rework from it, you got the RJ excal change to LoS, you nerfed greedy pull augment, you reworked mesa largely in part of Draco meta. Which I don't mind too much in of itself. But the issue I have now is changing the other viable methods of farming for affinity and focus. I might as well put a tent and campfire and live on Draco.

I still don't understand why people have issues with how other people manage their playtime. What impact does Draco farm or any other farm for that matter, have on your game?

[TopMaverick]

hey, did you know that draco is the best way to draco? I sure do like to draco some draco-points while using excalibur's RJ. I like what draco has become recently, now loki stealth "endless" runs aren't a thing to get my draco-points capped for the day, I need to gain all my 100k points solo! Hopefully with the new draco-map rework for draco update 19 will solve all of our draco-point problems and we can go back to farming our daily caps with stealth\voids\or anything not draco *with a resonable adjustment to focus gains for non-endless missions of course*.

[ElCorintio]

Why the Draco hate? I really enjoy playing Draco with random people... There's something fun/hard/stupid thing happend... From low level players dying the whole time, to people making like no damage at all with unranked weapons. The only downside is when you get a team with an Excal and a Trinity who wants to play Draco "properly"... That's boring to me. But aside of that, Draco it's really fun... If you want to play.

At the end, the solution is to buff the solo farming, or make more options to focus farming. EX; Spy missions Bonus if undetected, Exterminate bonus to Focus if under X mins, Defense missions Focus bonus to xxx enemies killed, etc...


If you lower the affinity cost, people just going to exploit the thing even more, and later rage for another thing. 

[Sixty5]

1 minute ago, pumaferd said:

Well I guess we'll have to disagree because I don't see how this response addresses the points I've brought up.  I personally do not want to do 20 spy missions to level a weapon.  I can say that doing one mission for 20 minutes vs doing countless missions for 2 hours repeating the same thing is objectively more tedious, even if during the 20 minutes all I am doing is killing enemies in the same manner.

What I also dislike about these sorts of responses is your reasoning: "spy missions should be about getting into the vault".  So for an opinion on how something should be in your opinion you would nerf something for everyone else in solo mode that has no impact on how you play the game (you can do the same thing you did before now), but does impact how other players play the game solo.  That's not even mentioning your reasoning fails to address that this affects all mission types that were nerfed, not just spy.

Ok lets see. 

I ran about 7 or 8 spy missions in about 45 minutes and then finished off levelling it in a void survival with mates. 

I might just be old school here, but in my mind it should take longer than 20 minutes to max a weapon, regardless of how. 

Additionally I myself was unknowingly abusing that mechanic awhile back, running one sabotage mission to complete my quota for the Inaros quest. 

The issue that Itake with it beyond the thematic one is that you lose the trade off. Spy missions give good chunks of exp pretty easily for solo players, while endless moded give you masses of enemies and experience at the cost of getting harder as they progress. 

  The ability to run endless spy missions breaks the balance of experience gain, and thus needed fixing, and they did so in a manner which doesn't break how the mission is intended to work, or nerf game mechanics.

the end result of the changes is that you lose out on exp per minute, but gain more rewards per minute when optimally farming spy or other missions. 

 

[--Q--XFA]

Well. they are back to square one. cuz every stealth farmers are back to draco. (me)