Heatnix. Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 I just wanted to share a few thoughts on the Second Dream events as my special 222 post (I may have more by the time you read this). There will be spoilers, though! and also spoilers for another game (Xenoblade Chronicles X) so if you haven't played that... don't read the spoilery parts. So! I'm late to the party cause I thought I'd do the quest sooner but my squad decided to disown so I was left to do the quest by my self /sob. Drama aside, let's see... where do I start... Oh yeah. So I went through that and at first I got the idea behind it and I was fine with it. I didn't care much since the game didn't actually changed... but then it kinda starts to sink in and you keep going back to that life support thing and looking at your "tenno" and things start to turn around in your head. It kinda sucks. See, the idea of why Warframe was great was all built around being a badass ninja in space kicking all sorts of &#! and just being flat out amazing. You were silent and deadly and had a code of honor and loyalty to other tenno. Fought with guns and blades like a pro and would come out of rooms with thousands of kills!... but it wasn't "you". It was all a lie. You never did any of those things. You are just a frail kid "dreaming" to be something else. The mystery is gone, the image of your tenno is gone, the code, the things you did, the battles and story? essentially all was fake. I've had it worse/better, though: Xenoblade Chronicles X spoilers: Spoiler You end up realizing at one point of the game that you are a biological machine being controlled by your real body frozen in stasis just like Warframe did now, but in the end you realize you're not even that. Your brain's memories and functions and what makes you "you" were transferred to the machine and your body left to burn when earth exploded, so technically you ARE who you see and the one that has done everything thus far unlike Warframe where you are nobody. Even the 13 year old girl was out there fighting massive creatures with a shield and a gatling gun instead of playing Avatar. The more I go back to see the "operator" the more I feel disappointed and disgusted. Even Bruce Willis in Surrogates understood that being a badass in a surrogate isn't as cool as being a badass (even if ugly and bald) in real person. It gets worse when your characters gets devolved into a Twilight/Hunger Games/Harry Potter/Divergent/5th Wave Teen that saves the world. They haven't even grown arm pit hair and somehow they manage to save the world =p. TL;DR: Warframe lost it's mystery and allure. You are nobody and you will never be as amazing as you thought you were when you started. You are a loser with powers that will never be able to do what you "dream" of doing. All is fake. All is a lie. Reality is an illusion. The Universe a hologram. Buy Gold! Bye! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kai_Shiba Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 I mean it was always there in the codex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misgenesis Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) But you did do all of those badass things. Youre the operator, Warframes dont operate themselves. (Unique situations aside) Edited March 10, 2016 by Misgenesis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlerift Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) It was you that did everything... For one, the Operator is the one that controls the Warframe, and for another: you're the player. Edited March 10, 2016 by Attley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaysInc Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 9 minutes ago, Heatnix. said: Reality is an illusion. The Universe a hologram. Buy Gold! Bye! *Grabs memory eraser gun* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyDevil Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 What was the point in making this whine thread when we basically have one already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Kryptyk- Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 wow. you know, for someone who plays a game that's HEAVY on lore, you really have quite the shallow view of warframe and the lore behind it. This was always the case, and was hinted at in several quests after people asking so many questions. You can take it or leave it, but complaining about something that's always been there isn't really productive or even worth feedback on. Moving along... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaysInc Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 1 minute ago, EmptyDevil said: What was the point in making this whine thread when we basically have one already? Salt for the salt gods of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verouzer Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 15 minutes ago, Heatnix. said: You are nobody and you will never be as amazing as you thought you were when you started. You are a loser with powers that will never be able to do what you "dream" of doing. All is fake. All is a lie. Reality is an illusion. Don't you ever tell me who I am! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlerift Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 2 minutes ago, Firefly0037 said: wow. you know, for someone who plays a game that's HEAVY on lore, you really have quite the shallow view of warframe and the lore behind it. This was always the case, and was hinted at in several quests after people asking so many questions. You can take it or leave it, but complaining about something that's always been there isn't really productive or even worth feedback on. Moving along... But I want to pretend to be a pretend soldier in a pretend space suit, not a pretend pseudo-god in a pretend command chair controlling the pretend space suit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Kryptyk- Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 3 hours ago, Attley said: But I want to pretend to be a pretend soldier in a pretend space suit, not a pretend pseudo-god in a pretend command chair controlling the pretend space suit! because space magic logic >.> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaotyke Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 30 minutes ago, Heatnix. said: All is fake. All is a lie. Reality is an illusion. The Universe a hologram. You speak as if there are a Video game that is real. And follow your own damn thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentCircle Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Heatnix. said: You are just a frail kid "dreaming" to be something else. Just like in real life. Pretty meta. :) Edited March 10, 2016 by SilentCircle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heatnix. Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 9 minutes ago, Kao-Snake said: You speak as if there are a Video game that is real. And follow your own damn thread. That last part is a quote. You just didn't get it =p As for the others posting trying to come at me at a personal level... lol. I guess we do deserve to be kids playing Warframe. What a community <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1RedSkittle Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 You do realize you are the operator, right? That the Warframes are nothing without you. Did you miss that part or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaotyke Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Just now, Heatnix. said: That last part is a quote. You just didn't get it =p No I didnt, where is it from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyDevil Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 8 minutes ago, SilentCircle said: Just like in real life. Pretty meta. :) Savage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vox_Preliator Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 And this is where the magic of Headcannon and Ignorance becomes useful. In this game, as far as I'm concerned, I'm the Warframe. I, the player, am the one who slaughters thousands of Grineer, Corpus, and Infested. I am the one who carried my Operator to safety when the Sentient Hunhow attacked. I am the one who sundered War and banished the Stalker, all of my own volition. The warframes themselves are suits that "I" inhabit. My Operator gives me life and power, we are connected, until he is cold in his grave. Without him, I am nothing, without me, he is a child. A child who can make laser blasts with his brain, but a frail child nonetheless. If anyone, or the game itself, objects to your headcannon, stick your fingers in your ears and sing "I'M NOT LISTENING LA LA LA" until your chosen reality reasserts itself. But seriously, I'm fine with the direction the story has taken, and the only regret Natah and the Second Dream gave me was that I can't replay them, they were absolutely top-notch, and I can't wait to see what they have in store that can top them. Still, by choosing to ignore select bits, "I" am still a Space Ninja Badass, not a puppeteer. Frankly, I don't really like the way the Operator looks, I couldn't seem to make him not uncanny. So, I choose to believe I am a separate entity from him. With the magic of headcannon and ignorance, the only thing that you cannot really change is the fact that the Operator exists and is important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genitive Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 We are still badass ninjas. The reveal made Warframe unique and different from other space shooters out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJunior Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Gotta love how the forums still does it's best to come at anyone who might disagree with the direction the lore went with a giant stick of fury. As for OP, I mostly agree. I would say I fully agree, but I haven't finished Xenoblade X so I couldn't read that part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1RedSkittle Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 1 minute ago, SJunior said: Gotta love how the forums still does it's best to come at anyone who might disagree with the direction the lore went with a giant stick of fury. As for OP, I mostly agree. I would say I fully agree, but I haven't finished Xenoblade X so I couldn't read that part. I would say beat Xenoblade then come back to this thread again, but you won't care about this thread by the time you beat it. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RahuHordika Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 29 minutes ago, Firefly0037 said: wow. you know, for someone who plays a game that's HEAVY on lore, you really have quite the shallow view of warframe and the lore behind it. This was always the case, and was hinted at in several quests after people asking so many questions. You can take it or leave it, but complaining about something that's always been there isn't really productive or even worth feedback on. Moving along... People keep talking as if the hints we had makes it blatantly obvious to come to the realization before the quest, yet conventiently ignore how essentially no one was able to nail it until the reveal. That is not the case, and some stuff even helps to contradict or question this idea a little (like Mirage's quest or valkyr's 'origin') so whatever we are it's hinted but still left very up in the air and widely open for interpretation until the second dream ties those hints with info of it's own. The OP's feelings are not to be diesrespected because it makes sense to feel them, it's not hard to understand how after all one goes through with the warframes before the second dream some people can feel a sense of dissapointment, not so much as controlling the actions but being the badass by being there yourself rather than controlling a puppet to do so. Another significant aspect that even old players pre-second dream can relate to is that the warframes have always been represented as beings that are esential to keep alive, like any other person, remember the Gradivus Dilema? A lot of people (reward hoarders aside) went against what we were told was the murder of our fellow tenno. There was even a sense of attachment many people had to their warframes seeing them as the characters to care about, yet the SD completely reverts that by telling us that warframes are essentially expendable and replaceable, just another weapon to add to the arsenal than a being to care about. I know the end hinted at warframes being more than just braindead puppets and I strongly hold onto that, but I am speaking for what he have as conclusive material up until this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlerift Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 12 minutes ago, SJunior said: Gotta love how the forums still does it's best to come at anyone who might disagree with the direction the lore went with a giant stick of fury. As for OP, I mostly agree. I would say I fully agree, but I haven't finished Xenoblade X so I couldn't read that part. Perhaps if the anti-writer side of the debate would come up with something better than 'But I wanted to be a space-ninja' despite the fact that they've played hundreds of hours as a space ninja, and can continue to play as a space ninja, there would be such a giant stick? Because lets be honest now, the Second Dream reveal changed the gameplay to the same degree that Lotus wearing a new hat would, and if Lotus wore a new hat we wouldn't have a load of people spamming the forums with 'I preferred the game back when Lotus had her old hat', and 'I can't enjoy this game any more due to Lotus's new hat' posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Kryptyk- Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, RahuHordika said: People keep talking as if the hints we had makes it blatantly obvious to come to the realization before the quest, yet conventiently ignore how essentially no one was able to nail it until the reveal. That is not the case, and some stuff even helps to contradict or question this idea a little (like Mirage's quest or valkyr's 'origin') so whatever we are it's hinted but still left very up in the air and widely open for interpretation until the second dream ties those hints with info of it's own. The OP's feelings are not to be diesrespected because it makes sense to feel them, it's not hard to understand how after all one goes through with the warframes before the second dream some people can feel a sense of dissapointment, not so much as controlling the actions but being the badass by being there yourself rather than controlling a puppet to do so. Another significant aspect that even old players pre-second dream can relate to is that the warframes have always been represented as beings that are esential to keep alive, like any other person, remember the Gradivus Dilema? A lot of people (reward hoarders aside) went against what we were told was the murder of our fellow tenno. There was even a sense of attachment many people had to their warframes seeing them as the characters to care about, yet the SD completely reverts that by telling us that warframes are essentially expendable and replaceable, just another weapon to add to the arsenal than a being to care about. I know the end hinted at warframes being more than just braindead puppets and I strongly hold onto that, but I am speaking for what he have as conclusive material up until this point. I can't particularly say that I remember that event way back, as I came just after it, or if I came during it, I didn't know much about the game at the time. But after two and a half years in the game, there was still always the question of what the warframes actually were. So many people asked the questions, DE put hints of lore literally all over the game and the codex, and then tied it all together with u18. And even then, they specifically said on a devstream right after that they still wanted to leave some questions unanswered and even create some more questions to expand lore on. u18 isn't the end all be all, and the quality and depth of the update was still substantial enough to create insane reactions, but it shouldn't be any surprise to the extent of that it actually happened. Those who HAVE been playing the game long enough and have actually paid attention enough could predict this update and even past it. That's the joy of being able to invest and stay informed in something that they partake in. Did u18 change the dynamic of the game? Absolutely. Was it for the best from a lore standpoint? Yes, because now there's an insane amount of room for expansion. Did DE say that not everyone would like the change the update brought? They did. So what did you all expect? It's a change in dynamic of the game, and yes, the way we viewed and attached ourselves to our favorite frames changed, but I think it's for the better, because now we actually know who we are, which makes it even more personal and relatable, at least for me. There's no second guessing anymore, and I honestly feel a bit closer to my favorite characters, because I know who they actually are. Also, it's not disrespect to say that something is invalid. It's a matter of what's reliable, able to be backed up, and what was well thought out. The OP is based off of feelings, and feelings can be deceptive and give the wrong impressions, especially when we base uninformed conclusions off of them. (not to say he doesn't have a right to feel, but conclusions should never be based on feelings alone.) When an opinion is based off of solid facts that are already there, then THAT opinion is validated and worth listening to. It's not disrespect to call that out - it's an encouragement to grow as a person. I feel like this was one of those times where he didn't take the time to process what actually happened and absorb the information, then came here out of shock. And there are plenty of threads from people who did that and didn't know what to think. Take it as you will. Edited March 10, 2016 by Firefly0037 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evanescent Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 1 hour ago, SilentCircle said: Just like in real life. Pretty meta. :) FATALITY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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