My thoughts on the operators and warframes.

[arch111]

At the time of the Rhino Prime Codex, the children were in cryo. A way to help them was to craft golems for them to control.

Ballas, supposedly, wanted to weaponize them. Margulis wanted to help them.

By cloning the tenno, the creatures were crafted with engineered void-powers. But they were dangerous and violent.

Davis discovered Transferrence for Ballas/Margulis. This led to the creation of Excalibur. 

I allso submit a theory that the Tenno were created to fight the Infested. Much later they were used as soldiers in the War.

[Alastair-Ulven]

1 minute ago, BornWithTeeth said:

This kind of argument has come up once or twice before, and each time it kinda seems like it's driven by underlying attitudes to the Operators and the Warframes. To be blunt, it comes across as a decision fuelled by thinking that Warframes are cool, Operators are not, so therefore the Operators must just be batteries while the Warframes are the 'real' Tenno.

Ow in no way am I saying the Operators are batteries I would honestly hate if they were. I just don't think that the operator is in complete and total absolute control of the frame, I think the operator acts more as a commander/tacticians or moral compass of the frame, while it does the fighting we simply guide it while also supplying the needed energy.

[BornWithTeeth]

Just now, Mu-no-kitsune said:

Ow in no way am I saying the Operators are batteries I would honestly hate if they were. I just don't think that the operator is in complete and total absolute control of the frame, I think the operator acts more as a commander/tacticians or moral compass of the frame, while it does the fighting we simply guide it while also supplying the needed energy.

Hmmm. I'm not commenting on whether or not the Warframe has any kind of mind in there. I am certainly commenting on whether the Operator is in control of the Warframe, and the answer as presented by all data in the game is an unambiguous 'yes'.

 

The Operators were so deeply submerged that they believed themselves to be the Warframes.

Even now, fully conscious of what they are, the way that Transference works means that they feel everything the Warframe does, so they remain that deeply enmeshed.

The recurring gesture for Transference is staring at one's hands as one assumes control of a new body.

Ballas's description of Transference: "...these aren't Dax soldiers. These are golems possessed by devil minds." Not 'commanded'. He used the word 'possessed'.

 

It's pretty clear. The Operators are not mission control (That's the Lotus.) The Operators are projected into the combat frames and assume control of them.

 

 

That's not to say that the Warframes are incapable of any kind of independent action. That's still up in the air, completely unresolved.

[Urlan]

1 hour ago, TARINunit9 said:

Player character = Tenno

Zariman child =/= Tenno

Warframe =/= Tenno

Zariman/Warframe mental symbiosis = Tenno

You are greater than the sum of your parts

In this logic statement, the Children of Zariman are the kids that became known as the Tenno, this is hinted in the codex entries, Simaris scans and outright said in the 2nd Dream. The player is indeed playing as a Tenno and it is correct that we are not the warframes, they are - to the player and the Tenno the player controls - surrogates, avatars, or remote controlled body armor made of infestation tech and based off of blueprints from infested tech test subjects most likely. That said, the large population of Warframe's sol system most likely does not know this fact, and assumes or have outright been told that the Warframes are exosuits worn by the Tenno inside. Even Alad V was confused by this though Vor seemed to have an idea that there was more to it than appeared. Both leaders had run recovery operations for Tenno cryopods and had interactions with warframes and Orokin tech.

[Alastair-Ulven]

2 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Hmmm. I'm not commenting on whether or not the Warframe has any kind of mind in there. I am certainly commenting on whether the Operator is in control of the Warframe, and the answer as presented by all data in the game is an unambiguous 'yes'.

 

The Operators were so deeply submerged that they believed themselves to be the Warframes.

Even now, fully conscious of what they are, the way that Transference works means that they feel everything the Warframe does, so they remain that deeply enmeshed.

The recurring gesture for Transference is staring at one's hands as one assumes control of a new body.

Ballas's description of Transference: "...these aren't Dax soldiers. These are golems possessed by devil minds." Not 'commanded'. He used the word 'possessed'.

 

It's pretty clear. The Operators are not mission control (That's the Lotus.) The Operators are projected into the combat frames and assume control of them.

 

 

That's not to say that the Warframes are incapable of any kind of independent action. That's still up in the air, completely unresolved.

True he does say possessed but remember he wanted to use them for war thus may be bias.

The thing is is I dont see the Lotus as mission control I see it as this. The warframes are the army each with their own thoughts, feeling, wants ect next are the tenno, they are the generals, the leaders of the armies they give out orders the army goes with that. Finally their is the lotus she is the ruler the queen, she gives order to her generals, who give order to the troops, the troops are more likely to listen to their general than their ruler as the general is always their with them.

[BornWithTeeth]

7 minutes ago, Mu-no-kitsune said:

True he does say possessed but remember he wanted to use them for war thus may be bias.

The thing is is I dont see the Lotus as mission control I see it as this. The warframes are the army each with their own thoughts, feeling, wants ect next are the tenno, they are the generals, the leaders of the armies they give out orders the army goes with that. Finally their is the lotus she is the ruler the queen, she gives order to her generals, who give order to the troops, the troops are more likely to listen to their general than their ruler as the general is always their with them.

Right, but the part where you assume that the Warframes are fully conscious, independent units being ordered by the Tenno is where you depart from what is very clearly shown in the game. That way lies Headcanon, and that's a dangerous territory.

[Alastair-Ulven]

6 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Right, but the part where you assume that the Warframes are fully conscious, independent units being ordered by the Tenno is where you depart from what is very clearly shown in the game. That way lies Headcanon, and that's a dangerous territory.

Maybe not conscience on the same level of say a human or the lotus, but at the least the same level as say a intelligent animal or the infested(at least the infested).

Edited March 13, 2016 by Mu-no-kitsune

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

I don't even think about that, because I don't even accept the outcome of that quest.

[StabbyTentacles]

3 hours ago, (PS4)SCRATCH__043 said:

Its just a game dude..

Its just a forum dude..

3 hours ago, Mu-no-kitsune said:

OK I have seen quite a few post, saying how people find it annoying how we, are controlling the operators which then control the warframes, instead of just the warframes (summed up). But I have a slightly different thought on what the operators do.

Personally I think that the operators CAN'T control the waframes at all, but instead the warframes are a seperate entiety entirely. Instead the operators act a a calming influence, shown by how the raging warframe, calmed down when transference was established. I think the operators also act as battery for the frames. 

My thought is if a frame kills it's operator, I think it inherits the operators connecting to the void (it's power source) but is driven mad by the power, (read stalker and the chroma from the quest). I think each warframe has its own personality, as I doubt that the operator could go from acting like mirage, to say inaros, that's why I think they say my warframe is strong, said they aren't talking about what they can do. The operators almost act like commands/tacticians giving order to the soldiers (warframes).

So yer just a personal theory, let me know what you think if you agree disagree, or if I have made a horrible mistake.

 

I like it. think DE made the horrible mistake, when they force fed operators to us all, (there should've always been a little more wiggle room given.) js

2 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

I'm struggling to determine the point of this comment

Agreed.

[Genitive]

1 minute ago, StabbyTentacles said:

I like it. think DE made the horrible mistake, when they force fed operators to us all, (there should've always been a little more wiggle room given.) js

The thing is the operators were in plans for quite a long time and many people predicted it, it wasn't forced. However, whether you like it or not is a completely different story.

And there is some wiggle room left regarding the nature of warframes.

[ComfyOlivia]

3 hours ago, Mu-no-kitsune said:

OK I have seen quite a few post, saying how people find it annoying how we, are controlling the operators which then control the warframes, instead of just the warframes (summed up). But I have a slightly different thought on what the operators do.

Personally I think that the operators CAN'T control the waframes at all, but instead the warframes are a seperate entiety entirely. Instead the operators act a a calming influence, shown by how the raging warframe, calmed down when transference was established. I think the operators also act as battery for the frames. 

My thought is if a frame kills it's operator, I think it inherits the operators connecting to the void (it's power source) but is driven mad by the power, (read stalker and the chroma from the quest). I think each warframe has its own personality, as I doubt that the operator could go from acting like mirage, to say inaros, that's why I think they say my warframe is strong, said they aren't talking about what they can do. The operators almost act like commands/tacticians giving order to the soldiers (warframes).

So yer just a personal theory, let me know what you think if you agree disagree, or if I have made a horrible mistake.

 

 

I'm not sure how there is a decent number of people who don't like how DE set it up. Just think of it like this (Spoilers Ahead):

 

Spoiler

Spoiler

In the second dream, a voice is heard saying " This will stop the voices from taking hold. You will have to dream, my angel... " to whom we assume is the tenno (children). 

The best sounding theory at the moment comes from BrokenCephalon on Reddit. Link for the theory: Link

Basically, Warframes are not at all empty shells or anything of the sort. The fact that children control the frames only makes the theory more interesting.

From what I understand (and don't quote me, cause idk if this is entirely right), this is what happened:

A long long time ago, in the system that we're actually in, a bunch of people were on a ship that disappeared into the void in a tragic accident. When the ship returned from the void, there was a war going on between the Orokin and the Sentient (who the orokin created). The Orokin found this ship. In the ship, all they found were children, who had been changed and twisted by the void. They called these children the "Tenno" after the ship they were found on, the "Zariman Ten Zero (Ten-0)".

After a lot of experimentation and death by the Orokin , in an attempt to use the tenno as weapons, it was found that the tenno possessed incredible ability and mental prowess, however, being children and not by any means expendable, the Orokin couldn't just send the Tenno into the battlefield. Thus, the Warframes were made.

This is were a bit of guesswork and using what we have in the lore comes in.

Another creation of the Orokin to combat the Sentients was the Infestation. However, because the Sentients were 100% machine, the Infestation was not very effective. Thus, we have the infestation.

Now, we come back to the Tenno and Warframes.

Warframes and what they are have always been under speculation. Are they what we are playing as? Are they alive? What are they? Well, with what DE has set up, the above theory could be plausible.

With the Orokin's intimate knowledge of the Infested (as they created them) and the Orokin's apparent ingenuity, it could be plausible to say that the Orokin used their knowledge to combine Technology and the Infestation into one hybrid piece of bio-technology/machinery. This is corroborated by several things in the game. Namely Lephantis who says "Why do you destroy us? We are your flesh.". Also the fact that almost every frame (a handful excluded, look at Oberon) require some form of Infested resource to build. Even more recently, when in your liset, go to the door to the left when you go down the ramp. You will hear the sounds of infested. While this hasn't been expanded on yet, we can assume it has something to do with a piece of our equipment, as the only other room in the back is for your Tenno.

So, why is this exciting? 

You play as a child from olden times that traveled through a realm outside of normal space, only to come back with special abilities and to a time where a war is happening between a faction of angry machines and their creators. You are then used as a tool to fight these machines. After a while, the machines were thought to have died out. While the race of the machines creators were giving you prestige, you and your kind begin to (possibly) exact revenge on them, the ones who turned you from children to War Machines. As their empire dies, the machines execute a long thought-out plan to destroy the tenno. A solitary agent from the machines long implanted in the old empire, who has gotten close to your race is supposed to end you. Fortunately, this agent has found love for you. In a complete act of betrayal to their race, this Agent hides you and your race in a place where you cannot be reached and also hides your only means of protection from those who would wish to destroy you.

After some time, you are reawakened with what seems to be a nasty case of amnesia. Through your adventures, you re-discover yourself and what exactly happened in the old days. There is, however, much more to learn.

 

Even if some don't enjoy the way it is going, you cannot deny that it is a well thought out story and is pretty complex. I sincerely hope we go on to learn more about the frames and what they are made off.

 

Edited March 13, 2016 by CoRRh

[StabbyTentacles]

Just now, Genitive said:

The thing is the operators were in plans for quite a long time and many people predicted it, it wasn't forced. However, whether you like it or not is a completely different story.

And there is some wiggle room left regarding the nature of warframes.

Untrue, just as this 'plan for quite a long time' was hackneyed/unimaginatively/uninspiredly driven into the story; it can be as easily hackneyed/unimaginatively/uninspiredly driven back out (Will it? Maybe not. ((But that might have more to to with DE's office politics, and personalities overruling intelligence, reasoning, and even solid imaginative writing))

And yes there is some wiggle room left regarding the nature of warframes, but isn't that more about good luck, plot holes, and interpretation? Over clever craftmanship.

 

[Genitive]

2 minutes ago, StabbyTentacles said:

Untrue, just as this 'plan for quite a long time' was hackneyed/unimaginatively/uninspiredly driven into the story; it can be as easily hackneyed/unimaginatively/uninspiredly driven back out

Your opinion on the quest doesn't make it less planned. Driving it out would make the story convoluted and create even more plotholes. You see it as unimaginative, I see it as interesting.

[ComfyOlivia]

22 minutes ago, CoRRh said:

 

I'm not sure how there is a decent number of people who don't like how DE set it up. Just think of it like this (Spoilers Ahead):

 

  Hide contents

  Hide contents

In the second dream, a voice is heard saying " This will stop the voices from taking hold. You will have to dream, my angel... " to whom we assume is the tenno (children). 

The best sounding theory at the moment comes from BrokenCephalon on Reddit. Link for the theory: Link

Basically, Warframes are not at all empty shells or anything of the sort. The fact that children control the frames only makes the theory more interesting.

From what I understand (and don't quote me, cause idk if this is entirely right), this is what happened:

A long long time ago, in the system that we're actually in, a bunch of people were on a ship that disappeared into the void in a tragic accident. When the ship returned from the void, there was a war going on between the Orokin and the Sentient (who the orokin created). The Orokin found this ship. In the ship, all they found were children, who had been changed and twisted by the void. They called these children the "Tenno" after the ship they were found on, the "Zariman Ten Zero (Ten-0)".

After a lot of experimentation and death by the Orokin , in an attempt to use the tenno as weapons, it was found that the tenno possessed incredible ability and mental prowess, however, being children and not by any means expendable, the Orokin couldn't just send the Tenno into the battlefield. Thus, the Warframes were made.

This is were a bit of guesswork and using what we have in the lore comes in.

Another creation of the Orokin to combat the Sentients was the Infestation. However, because the Sentients were 100% machine, the Infestation was not very effective. Thus, we have the infestation.

Now, we come back to the Tenno and Warframes.

Warframes and what they are have always been under speculation. Are they what we are playing as? Are they alive? What are they? Well, with what DE has set up, the above theory could be plausible.

With the Orokin's intimate knowledge of the Infested (as they created them) and the Orokin's apparent ingenuity, it could be plausible to say that the Orokin used their knowledge to combine Technology and the Infestation into one hybrid piece of bio-technology/machinery. This is corroborated by several things in the game. Namely Lephantis who says "Why do you destroy us? We are your flesh.". Also the fact that almost every frame (a handful excluded, look at Oberon) require some form of Infested resource to build. Even more recently, when in your liset, go to the door to the left when you go down the ramp. You will hear the sounds of infested. While this hasn't been expanded on yet, we can assume it has something to do with a piece of our equipment, as the only other room in the back is for your Tenno.

So, why is this exciting? 

You play as a child from olden times that traveled through a realm outside of normal space, only to come back with special abilities and to a time where a war is happening between a faction of angry machines and their creators. You are then used as a tool to fight these machines. After a while, the machines were thought to have died out. While the race of the machines creators were giving you prestige, you and your kind begin to (possibly) exact revenge on them, the ones who turned you from children to War Machines. As their empire dies, the machines execute a long thought-out plan to destroy the tenno. A solitary agent from the machines long implanted in the old empire, who has gotten close to your race is supposed to end you. Fortunately, this agent has found love for you. In a complete act of betrayal to their race, this Agent hides you and your race in a place where you cannot be reached and also hides your only means of protection from those who would wish to destroy you.

After some time, you are reawakened with what seems to be a nasty case of amnesia. Through your adventures, you re-discover yourself and what exactly happened in the old days. There is, however, much more to learn.

 

Even if some don't enjoy the way it is going, you cannot deny that it is a well thought out story and is pretty complex. I sincerely hope we go on to learn more about the frames and what they are made off.

 

 

Though, I do have something to say in extension to this, as my original comment didn't answer to the thread, but was more of a "It's cooler when you look at the big picture.

 

Here is my answer to the thread:

 

What you are suggesting, OP, is excellent. All I have to say. For those opposed to what OP himself is saying, just hear me out.

 

As OP suggested, a Symbiotic Relationship makes a lot of sense and seems like the coolest way to do things. It is suggested in multiple places that the Infestation is a hive mind. Additionally, with the infested being as unstable and uncontrollable as they are, it's not surprising that if the frames were made of a tech/infested hybrid of sorts, they would be unstable and sometimes uncontrollable. With the Tenno's massive mental capabilities but lack in actual physical capability and then the Frames' massive physical capability but lack of mental stability, it would make sense to say that the two are symbiotic. Cool thinking OP.

 

Edit:

I guess for those that need sort of mental representation of this, think of the relationship between the Big Daddys and Little Sisters in Bioshock. 

From the Bioshock Big Daddy wiki page:

"From the time of its founding, maintenance of Rapture required trained divers in reinforced suits to walk outside along the sea floor to repair leaks and reinforce the city's structure. By the time of the Protector Program's tests, certain former citizens of Rapture had been genetically altered with ADAM and permanently sealed inside the special diving suits to become what were eventually called Big Daddies. They were genetically modified and conditioned in the research labs and facilities of Point Prometheus. Protector training was eventually done in the Proving Grounds.

The candidates for induction into the Protector Program went through voice box modification and pheromone application, which attracted the Little Sisters to the Big Daddies. After those, the candidates' skin and organs were grafted and integrated into their suit, to become one functional unit. The subjects were then placed in large vats of an unknown yellow substance, and eventually reduced to will-less servitors. 

Through genetic splicing, the humans inside the heavy suits were given enhanced strength and agility. Their suit exoskeletons contained the life support machinery needed to keep them alive during their duties, to allow a Big Daddy to lift heavy weights and do other strenuous tasks, and to help resist the cold and pressure of the deep ocean. In BioShock, Big Daddies can been seen doing maintenance repairs both inside and outside in the ocean.  Big Daddies were also programmed to periodically return to facilities like Hephaestus for routine maintenance check-ups."

 

TL;DR:

The Big Daddys were conditioned and changed both genetically and physically to have only one goal: protect the Little Sisters. They are large and brutish with not a lot going on mentally. Little Sisters are mostly frail and not capable of the physical feats accomplished by the Big Daddys. So, they are helpless without eachother, but a force to reckon with when united.

Edited March 13, 2016 by CoRRh

[StabbyTentacles]

17 minutes ago, Genitive said:

Your opinion on the quest doesn't make it less planned. Driving it out would make the story convoluted and create even more plotholes. You see it as unimaginative, I see it as interesting.

Your opinion on the quest doesn't make it less unoriginal, uncreative, unartistic, commonplace, nor pedestrian, where you see great art, I do not. I'm glad you like it, love it even, good for you.

In the highly original universe like warframe's wariverse; I just find this unoriginality jaring; you don't.

6 minutes ago, CoRRh said:

snip

As OP suggested, a Symbiotic Relationship makes a lot of sense and seems like the coolest way to do things. It is suggested in multiple places that the Infestation is a hive mind. Additionally, with the infested being as unstable and uncontrollable as they are, it's not surprising that if the frames were made of a tech/infested hybrid of sorts, they would be unstable and sometimes uncontrollable. With the Tenno's massive mental capabilities but lack in actual physical capability and then the Frames' massive physical capability but lack of mental stability, it would make sense to say that the two are symbiotic. Cool thinking OP.

Well said, and a symbiotic exchange seems to sit far more comfortably; If we must have the operator's that is.

[ComfyOlivia]

2 minutes ago, StabbyTentacles said:

Your opinion on the quest doesn't make it less unoriginal, uncreative, unartistic, commonplace, nor pedestrian, where you see great art, I do not. I'm glad you like it, love it even, good for you.

In the highly original universe like warframe's wariverse; I just find this unoriginality jaring; you don't.

While the Origins may be a bit cliche in some places, DE has just begun to expand and explain their universe to us. A story isn't justified until it has an end. We have no idea what exactly they will do. As a result, what may seem trivial and uncreative now, may seem well placed and beautiful later. A letter will just seem like random markings if you don't understand what it means or leads to.

 

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, Urlan said:

In this logic statement, the Children of Zariman are the kids that became known as the Tenno, this is hinted in the codex entries, Simaris scans and outright said in the 2nd Dream. The player is indeed playing as a Tenno and it is correct that we are not the warframes, they are - to the player and the Tenno the player controls - surrogates, avatars, or remote controlled body armor made of infestation tech and based off of blueprints from infested tech test subjects most likely. That said, the large population of Warframe's sol system most likely does not know this fact, and assumes or have outright been told that the Warframes are exosuits worn by the Tenno inside. Even Alad V was confused by this though Vor seemed to have an idea that there was more to it than appeared. Both leaders had run recovery operations for Tenno cryopods and had interactions with warframes and Orokin tech.

So long as we're clear that a Zariman child with no Warframe is not a Tenno, I agree with you

[Urlan]

No, I am afraid we are not clear then. To the rest of the Sol system, yes, without the warframes; the majority of the population would not know us as Tenno without the warframes. But in this case, the Tenno doesn't involve the warframes at all - its just the Children of Zariman, or the survivors or transport Ten-number 0 or Tenno. The warframes came after we were probably already called Tenno (Heavenly Emperor). as our corpus or family caste in Orokin society. While the warframes have become our calling card as we were re-purposed into child soldiers and such using void transference. It would be incorrect logically to say that without warframes we are not still the Tenno.

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, Urlan said:

The warframes came after we were probably already called Tenno (Heavenly Emperor).

Pretty sure it's the other way around. The Orokin called the Zariman kids "freaks" and "demons" all the way up to the last few years of the Old War. It was only after they gave the kids military-grade Warframes (as opposed to the cannibalistic prototypes seen in the Rhino Prime codex) that they started using the codename "Tenno"

[Barrett_Linwei8]

Wait so....Operators are the ones who control the Warframe and it is because of the operators that give the Warframe personality? So if an operator was cheerful and happy the Warframe would have the same feelings?

 

[TARINunit9]

9 minutes ago, Barrett_Linwei8 said:

Wait so....Operators are the ones who control the Warframe and it is because of the operators that give the Warframe personality? So if an operator was cheerful and happy the Warframe would have the same feelings?

 

Yes if you want, no if you don't want

Arsenal -> [warframe] -> Appearance -> Animation sets

That's pretty much your warframe's personality right there. Has it been pacified by your Zariman kid's bubbly childlike glee? Or is it still the swaying monstrous beast of metal and flesh? Or something else? You decide!

[CriticalFumble]

Welcome to a digging around post. 

18 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

In the Second Dream quest, it was extremely clear. That wasn't the Warframe rescuing its mission commander, that was the Tenno saving themselves. Everything about the Second Dream made it very, very clear: Where there is a mind in the Tenno, it's in the Operator, not the Warframe.

I found this:

Spoiler

 

My toothy friend specifically:  Compare 3:00 to 7:10.  The Operator's life is in immediate danger, and the warframe reacts.  As opposed to the pat on the back.  Yes, Hunhow thinks the frame is just a shell, but he's not actually a reliable source of information, either.  "What. . . is. . . this?" - it took him totally off guard.  DE has also admitted being inspired by a Japanese story called Guyver.  The Guyvers are very similar to warframes, but with the host inside.  If the host is knocked out or killed (don't worry, they get better) the suit defends itself.  I'd hesitate to overlap the two, but to me its clearly not the Tenno doing this, its the warframe acting on its own.  

Other notes - Hunhow refers to the frame as being on "Tenno strings" implying that the Operator is the Tenno proper.  Tenno have warframes as a kind of avatar and generally are not separated, so the word blurs. 

As to the topic:  If Hunhow knows exactly what the Stalker is, and he is a loose warframe, then how does he get taken unawares like that? 

1 hour ago, Urlan said:

Tenno (Heavenly Emperor).

This always struck me as odd.  So I dug around a little.  Apparently, "Tenno" can also refer to "Gozu Tenno", a plague god in Shintoism.  http://eos.kokugakuin.ac.jp/modules/xwords/entry.php?entryID=192

There's also a suggestion that he's an import from India under the name "Gosirsa Devaraja" who was a apparently a fairly minor monastery guardian.  Different sources suggested the name "Gavagriva" which I cannot find right now, but the name "Hayagriva" (if we're willing to trust Google to give suggestions) does show up in two different ways.  One is Hindu - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayagriva - yes, he has the literal face of a horse and is totally disjointed from the Japanese concept.  He also sits on a lotus flower and promotes calmness over base emotions - which fits the Tenno well.  The other "Hayagriva" is a Buddhist wrathful god. 

[StabbyTentacles]

5 hours ago, CriticalFumble said:

As to the topic:  If Hunhow knows exactly what the Stalker is, and he is a loose warframe, then how does he get taken unawares like that? 

Hunhow: is mentally unstable/irrational?  has ambiguous awareness of what the Stalker is? Hunhow believes the Stalker to be unique? Hunhow is simply thrown off guard while mid: Gloating. Monologuing.* 

Hunhow may also have simply been taken unawares like that?  By the classic underestimation of his enemies abilities, capability. 

 

*the Evil Overlord List strenuously warns against, as any villain caught gloating is sure to be either killed or foiled, as in the end his gloating always ends up giving the hero that little bit of extra time or information that helps him counter the villain's Evil Plan.

[BaneOfOrion]

On 3/11/2016 at 6:50 PM, CriticalFumble said:

As I understood it, the speaker there was actually Hunhow, or some fragment of him or another Sentient, if there are others.  Remember that you actually free him with the scanner?  Chroma has no lines afterwards, either, not even an acknowledgement.  It could be as simple as not being in a cryo pod that can let a warframe become "wild", or maybe was found and co-opted by a Sentient. 

About the Stalker, you know what isn't a warframe but can still use powers?  (besides eximus units).  Tenno.  I don't think he's actually "one of us" per se, but after the Orokin leadership was dead, what would stop him from trying to get Void powers of his own?  I fail to see the conflict, what in Second Dream makes him seem to be a loose warframe? 

Hunhow makes overtures that the stalker was either an Operator or Warframe that was suddenly pulled from the first dream, the shock driving him/ it to madness.

Of course, this is an entity who wants to finish destroying our civilization(boo) so it can reabsorb his wayward clone-daughter, our slave driver(yay?)

There are few parties here we can trust, besides maybe Alad, who seems to have gone a little nutty, and is just reveling in playing with the Tenno, whole ironically, presenting the most unbiased information, and Darvo, one of the few people without a dog in this fight.

[BaneOfOrion]

1 hour ago, StabbyTentacles said:

Hunhow: is mentally unstable/irrational?

This seems the most likely to me. Everyone left over from the orokin era seems pretty crazy, and hunhow didn't even have any mobility, trapped beneath Uranus. At least Teshin got the chance to bind himself to his dogma, to take the edge of the aeons.

Edited March 14, 2016 by BaneOfOrion