Bullet jump to be nerfed in Conclave? According to Steve's Twitt

[Magneu]

Bullet jumping is alright. What isn't alright is its combo with rolling and double jump. You can easily reach ludicrous speeds without any of the mods, and once you start stacking them...dear god is it ridiculous. Sideways rolling in midair shouldn't act the way it does now, as it defies even Warframe physics.

Bulletjumping is ok.

Rolling is ok.

Double jump is ok.

Combining them is an exponential increase in speed and dodgeability. All we need is some number fine tuning so people don't shoot past at the speed of light, but it isn't too slow either. 

Very tired of people spending maybe 5% of the match on the ground, only coming down to jump again. Looks frankly stupid. 

[Stormdragon]

29 minutes ago, (PS4)AllOrNothinDays said:

Which again, many people play. If DE is content with the numbers they're drawing as it is now, then they won't be changing anything.

Given the small amounts of players favoring these changes, the amounts of players playing conclave and trying to get goid on iits current state, and the part of community who came here for pve and tgus they simply dislike playing against other players and won't play pvp even if it was turned into a snail race, I'd say gimping mobility could make pvp (and obviously DE) lose more than what it could win if those changes where applied.

35 minutes ago, (PS4)AllOrNothinDays said:

That is a good reason actually if not enough people are playing to begin with. It's their job to find out why and come up with that conclusion. 

Maybe on ps4 there's not enough people playing. At least on pc, there's pretty rare going to pvp console and not finding a match. 

Said that, if players complaining about mobility are those who cannot keep up and refuseto play the game (a game that has taken many changes on its pve side due to players finding a way to get rewards without actually playing, and using the way the game should be played according to the same Steve's vision as an argument to changes on frames like mesa, saryn or mag) I guess these changes, if finally taken, should apply only to low level conclave (aka kiddies pool/recruitment conditioning) in order to let them fight gimped players until they feel able to go against better players or until they get bored of fighting like that. There's no reason to totally gimp mobility to appease a small amount of crybabies, but if they are going to be heard, at least give us players the choice of keep playing with the current mobility system out of RC.

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

7 minutes ago, -----LegioN----- said:

to appease a small amount of crybabies, 

This mentality helps no one. You're also not attracting new players with this widespread view I've noticed in conclave forums which come off like new players/people being unable to adatp are the problem and feel like PVP owes the chosen few among them something. I'm sorry to tell you that it just won't last, you can only play the same people for so long before DE looks at the numbers and abandons it, it might even be a question of who abandons it first.

Do you have any data to back up your claim about the main reason people aren't playing conclave? I'm not asking this to put you on the spot or to challenge you, I'm just very interested in knowing if there is any information out there on this and or any numbers on conclave popularity. 

[Phasedragon]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)AllOrNothinDays said:

This mentality helps no one. You're also not attracting new players with this widespread view I've noticed in conclave forums which come off like new players/people being unable to adatp are the problem and feel like PVP owes the chosen few among them something. I'm sorry to tell you that it just won't last, you can only play the same people for so long before DE looks at the numbers and abandons it, it might even be a question of who abandons it first.

Do you have any data to back up your claim about the main reason people aren't playing conclave? I'm not asking this to put you on the spot or to challenge you, I'm just very interested in knowing if there is any information out there on this and or any numbers on conclave popularity. 

I understand that you just want to help the gamemode grow, but the fact is that catering to the lowest common denominator helps no-one either. What will help is instruction, guidance, advice, and practice. Most of us conclave veterans are more than happy to help new players get accustomed. 

 

It's also not nearly as dead as you think. It is growing every day, partly due to cosmetics.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Phasedragon

[Stormdragon]

30 minutes ago, (PS4)AllOrNothinDays said:

This mentality helps no one. You're also not attracting new players with this widespread view I've noticed in conclave forums which come off like new players/people being unable to adatp are the problem and feel like PVP owes the chosen few among them something. I'm sorry to tell you that it just won't last, you can only play the same people for so long before DE looks at the numbers and abandons it, it might even be a question of who abandons it first.

Not really, many new players ask for help to anyone they see as better than them. Even myself, not being close to be one of those "chosen few" you're talking about, have some players asking me how to improve their game instead of coming to the forums (or Twitter) and crying to nerf mobility. If you read previous pages, you'd realize there's many players who like the current pvp state even if they can't keep up with it right now. But do they cry for nerfs? No, they ask for help instead. Do those "chosen few" good players come down from the heavens only to tell them "git gud bro" before going back to the game? No, conclave veterans give advice here on forums and in game, some of them even make private matches to teach some tricks to newer players. Most of them use to add players in case they want to ask anything about conclave.

30 minutes ago, (PS4)AllOrNothinDays said:

Do you have any data to back up your claim about the main reason people aren't playing conclave? I'm not asking this to put you on the spot or to challenge you, I'm just very interested in knowing if there is any information out there on this and or any numbers on conclave popularity. 

I've never said anything about the reasons why players aren't playing pvp, anyways if you'd like to know it, you could simply create a topic with a poll asking about it.

Edited March 27, 2016 by -----LegioN-----

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

Apologies, confused you for someone else because of the icon while I'm working on something.

Edited March 27, 2016 by (PS4)AllOrNothinDays

[CandyDragon]

Bullet jump should have never been given slowing augments, nor damage for the PVP scenario. 

[BoyTitan]

If they nerf mobility I am ditching my high mobility mag and going high ehp rhino and pub stomping targets that can't move. It would be a horrible idea. Noobs will be noobs.

[Prophet]

Thank god bullet jump is getting nerfed.

[Stormdragon]

8 hours ago, Gr1d1ron said:

Thank god bullet jump is getting nerfed.

Yeah, thank god for giving us tools to stomp even harder on less skilled players and taking away our best chance to survive unbalanced team matches.

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

8 hours ago, Gr1d1ron said:

Thank god bullet jump is getting nerfed.

why? so it's easier for the already good player to kill you even quicker? lol

You should know on the Xbox at least when they got rid of maglev and slowed down mobility it didn't help the players who were already bad. The same players that were stomping around conclave were now just curb stomping on the other players because the problem isn't mobility it's this ----> If you are a great pvp shooter-type player you will always be no matter what adjustment you need to make, if you are a bad pvp-shooter-type player you will not be able to out adjust the aforementioned players. The movement nerf only resulted in more curb stomping.

Cheers!

[(XBOX)LastxMOHICANx]

If DE went through the trouble of putting in a match making ability so that newer players can play against each other while being in the learning curve and become available to veteran players when ready, why then take away the movement which is a key skill listed amongst veteran players and make it so everyone has to play at the level of noobs? It doesnt make any sense. Really I mean thats so 2 steps forward and then a mile and 1/2 back. DE i dont get you.

[CandyDragon]

12 hours ago, (XB1)LastxMOHICANx said:

If DE went through the trouble of putting in a match making ability so that newer players can play against each other while being in the learning curve and become available to veteran players when ready, why then take away the movement which is a key skill listed amongst veteran players and make it so everyone has to play at the level of noobs? It doesnt make any sense. Really I mean thats so 2 steps forward and then a mile and 1/2 back. DE i dont get you.

They already sort of shelter the lower ranks from the higher ranks. You usually won't encounter high end players unless no one is playing. Given the populations that is likely the best they can do. 

Movement being a skill is a bit of an overstatement, its more about cheesing the most efficient weapons and then understanding that most of this game is hitscan. 
Peer 2 peer networking make it extremely hard to divorce skill from luck, as often its just "well they lagged and your nyx 4 was ignored, killing you instantly". 

Endless momentum and constant high speed, erratic, movement just makes most fights come down to "did you equip the meta? Are you abusing something like rubico's damage multiplier?"  

 

[Phasedragon]

7 minutes ago, Nariala said:

Endless momentum and constant high speed, erratic, movement just makes most fights come down to "did you equip the meta? Are you abusing something like rubico's damage multiplier?"  

Lmao what? Pray, tell, of what damage multiplier are you referring to? Or are you just salty from our matches together the other day?

7 minutes ago, Nariala said:

Movement being a skill is a bit of an overstatement, its more about cheesing the most efficient weapons and then understanding that most of this game is hitscan.  

It's easy for someone to look on the outside and say that something takes no skill when they have not spent the time to get good at it themselves. I'll leave it at that.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Phasedragon

[CandyDragon]

7 minutes ago, Phasedragon said:

Lmao what? Pray, tell, of what damage multiplier are you referring to? Or are you just salty from our matches together the other day?

I never mentioned anyone by name, nor have I attempted to demonize any individual player. I fail to see how that makes me "salty".

You yourself have stated that the rubico functions improperly and does its 1.5x multiplier damage with its first shot.  

4 hours ago, Phasedragon said:

Rubico's combo multiplier is messed up. It applies on the first hit, and so actually does 1.5X the damage of it's stats, which it has been balanced for.

Utilizing that mechanic knowingly to win is exploitative, I do not doubt your aim with this weapon, but it should not reward you bonus damage simply because it can if it is not an intended feature. 

Edited March 30, 2016 by Nariala
Clarification of context.

[Phasedragon]

Just now, Nariala said:

I never mentioned anyone by name, nor have I attempted to demonize any individual player. I fail to see how that makes me "salty".

You yourself have stated that the rubico functions improperly and does its 1.5x multiplier damage with its first shot.  

" Rubico's combo multiplier is messed up. It applies on the first hit, and so actually does 1.5X the damage of it's stats, "

Yes, and as such has been balanced for it. It does far less damage compared to other snipers based on stats alone, but this quirk brings it up to standard damage in-line with the others. It definitely doesn't make it do any more damage than it should.

[CandyDragon]

13 minutes ago, Phasedragon said:

Yes, and as such has been balanced for it. It does far less damage compared to other snipers based on stats alone, but this quirk brings it up to standard damage in-line with the others. It definitely doesn't make it do any more damage than it should.

The only thing that seems to beat it out is the vulkar wraith in terms of Clip size vs damage. 

On a tangent here, but it is extremely strange that the higher clip sniper rifles do more damage in conclave than their lower clip size counterparts. Literally the reverse of how it is normally. 

Edited March 30, 2016 by Nariala

[Phasedragon]

Just now, Nariala said:

The only thing that seems to beat it out is the vulkar wraith in terms of Clip size vs damage. 

On a tangent here, but it is extremely strange that the higher clip sniper rifles do more damage in conclave than their lower clipsize counterparts. Literally the reverse of how it is normally. 

Where are you getting your stats? For one, vulkar isn't even in conclave. Two, Vectis has the highest damage, not rubico, and vectis is a single shot per clip weapon. 

[CandyDragon]

2 minutes ago, Phasedragon said:

Where are you getting your stats? For one, vulkar isn't even in conclave. Two, Vectis has the highest damage, not rubico, and vectis is a single shot per clip weapon. 

I've been looking at the non conclave stats for these things. 10/10. 

[MokutoBunshi]

Hello.

This is my opinion.

 

PvP need a lot of work and as a long range sniper fan the odd of hitting a target that can move 45-90 degrees relative to my vantage point in 1-2 is very low... Which would not be a problem with enough practice..the issue is that a sniper rifle or bow cant one shot unless it has long load times to keep balance (like the Daikyu). So I actually do think that the bullet jump (not mobility entirely) needs to be downgraded.

 

This goes both ways, because if I miss a (head) shot normally that would be a opportunity for a counter play and for my target to hit me back an if they have better aim, even kll me, but instead I can bullet jump away.

 

That is my opinion on bullet jumping anyways...but then again, for a "ninja game there are a whole lot of weapons that are ninja like but non-feesable.

 

]\'[

[Leyers_of_facade]

5 hours ago, MokutoBunshi said:

.the issue is that a sniper rifle or bow cant one shot unless it has long load times to keep balance (like the Daikyu). So I actually do think that the bullet jump (not mobility entirely) needs to be downgraded.

You are right with the problem of snipers/ bow not 1-shoting... (especially when daikyu with 15m can't 1-shot is just stupid), however the problem isn't with bullet jump, it is with the balance of damage. Would it make a difference if everyone doesn't jump as much? No, because the damage stays constant, so it will still take as much shots to kill your target. On the other hand, with bullet jump, you can buy yourself more time to charge up your second shot in case you miss in the case of bows. (Although ammo is a pain with that stupid glitch)

[MokutoBunshi]

16 hours ago, 14159265358979323846 said:

You are right with the problem of snipers/ bow not 1-shoting... (especially when daikyu with 15m can't 1-shot is just stupid), however the problem isn't with bullet jump, it is with the balance of damage. Would it make a difference if everyone doesn't jump as much? No, because the damage stays constant, so it will still take as much shots to kill your target. On the other hand, with bullet jump, you can buy yourself more time to charge up your second shot in case you miss in the case of bows. (Although ammo is a pain with that stupid glitch)

Very true..... I think my grudge is showing through :P

 

]\'[

[C0ntra]

As a pretty new conclavier,i can understand why they would like to nerf bullet jumping,because most of the time me and other people can easily escape near death situation just bullet jumping away with zigzags.But actually its  possible to determine where they gonna land after bullet jump and try to shoot that spot,of course more actual for non-hitscan weapons but still possible for all.Yeah its pretty hard,but my real concern is projectile speed and it's hit area of weapons like miter,its very hard to hit somebody because saw needs to hit pinpointly like bullet and also much slower than arrow,even with lucky shot mod.I would be happy if they at least increased hit radious of miter saw,or speed. But not both,because its dream :P But even if they will not do this,i will not switch miter,because i love it so much. gotta just swallow sadness and train that impossibilness :S