Why do nullifiers still exist?

[dadaddadada]

I think that different AI behavior could achieve the same exact effect that nullifiers have.

Simply put, if middle-tier enemies stay further away from us on average and shooting from afar, enemies are thus more sparse , reducing the effectiveness of press4towin spam. Only melee and heavy enemies should try to rush and close the gap.

Added benefit of hitting down camping tactics in survival as most enemies would not anymore blindly run to your position until they see you but instead would siege you from a distance waiting for your nose to go rogue.

Only applicable above level 30, excluding melee and heavy units.

[Rambit23Z]

Just now, letir said:

Don't bring your personal fun in talks about effectiveness. If you fine with killing enemies one by one when your teammate reap them in dosens with Tonkor - it's only your personal preference.

That was in response to your "no choice" claim.

Just now, akira_him said:

What if defectiveness=fun for some ppl

Could you elaborate? Not quite sure what you mean.

[akira_him]

1 minute ago, Rambit23Z said:

That was in response to your "no choice" claim.

Could you elaborate? Not quite sure what you mean.

effectiveness, fxxk auto correct

[IceColdHawk]

12 minutes ago, Lokime said:

and tactics.

Yes i know. Triggering the excavs and running away will actually make you win the mission. Forgot that, silly me.

(no ability works against them, weapons not even ignoring the shield)

11 minutes ago, Rambit23Z said:

I had it in a Sniper only Corpus Survival a while ago. Planned accordingly and went with Limbo. Banish, the one shot. Rinse and repeat.

Are you a traveller from the future? Our limbo can't banish nullifiers (yet).

Guys noone is complaining about low lvl nullifiers. They get rekt just like everyone else. They start to get annoying in levels where enemies start to be a threat.

5 minutes ago, dadaddadada said:

Simply put, if middle-tier enemies stay further away from us on average and shooting from afar, enemies are thus more sparse , reducing the effectiveness of press4towin spam. Only melee and heavy enemies should try to rush and close the gap.

I can get behind that. Considering nullifiers are sniper units after all.

Also exactly this:

1 hour ago, phoenix1992 said:

I Don't get you, defenders of the current system.

You can totally deal with nulifiers - no one denies that. We are pointing out that they limit us in too many ways. And last time I was playing in high tier mission on co-op - they never come alone. One nulifier - ok. Two - ok.
3-4 with a Bursa unit, bunch of moas, scramblers and god knows what else hiding beneath the domes, zerging me like they are the the infested. This is not okay.

Edited April 5, 2016 by IceColdHawk

[letir]

Just now, Rambit23Z said:

That was in response to your "no choice" claim.

Oh, sorry, i mean "gameplay viable choice". In terms of "effectivness" of course, not in vague "fun".

P.S. Still wait in repsonse to your "snipers excel" claim.

Edited April 5, 2016 by letir

[LOKIME]

8 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Yes i know. Triggering the excavs and running away will actually make you win the mission. Forgot that, silly me.

(no ability works against them, weapons not even ignoring the shield)

Are you a traveller from the future? Our limbo can't banish nullifiers (yet).

Guys noone is complaining about low lvl nullifiers. They get rekt just like everyone else. They start to get annoying in levels where enemies start to be a threat.

I can get behind that. Considering nullifiers are sniper units after all.

Do you seriously need abilities to kill a nullifier? They're one shotted by mostly every melee weapon, shotguns, rifles... How many players do you think are need to kill one? 4? Even in sorties, nullifiers are not a problem if at least 1 guy decides to kill them on sight, while the others stay near the excavators and defend it -Not that it matters much since Bursas will destroy you anyway. 

Besides I heard about an augment mod for mitter to pop them bubbles. So there's another option  to kill that sucky enemies. 

Edited April 5, 2016 by Lokime
I forgot half the words :D

[IceColdHawk]

Just now, Lokime said:

Do you seriously need abilities to kill a nullifier? They're one shotted by mostly every melee weapon, shotguns, rifles... How many players do you think are need to kill one? 4? Even in sorties, nullifiers are not a problem if at least guy decides to kill them on sight, while the others stay near the excavators and defend it -Not that it matters much since Bursas will destroy you anyway. 

Bursas are only a problem because of nullifiers. Their oneshot potential while blocking your abilities while getting covered by multiple techs and sapping ospreys, now that is a thing.

No i don't need abilities to kill a nullifier. I can just use my weap....wait....i actually can't. That one sortie with the 3 nullifiers walking together while a 4th arctic eximus nullifier was on the other side. Just too good. Elemental resistance makes them tanky too. Once you enter the bubble, you are just freshly found food for the corpus.

[LOKIME]

4 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Bursas are only a problem because of nullifiers. Their oneshot potential while blocking your abilities while getting covered by multiple techs and sapping ospreys, now that is a thing.

No i don't need abilities to kill a nullifier. I can just use my weap....wait....i actually can't. That one sortie with the 3 nullifiers walking together while a 4th arctic eximus nullifier was on the other side. Just too good. Elemental resistance makes them tanky too. Once you enter the bubble, you are just freshly found food for the corpus.

Well I can agree on that. Eximus nullifiers are monsters. But again, there is a a way, being tanky or melee frame (or both) helps a lot, slam attacks helps too, keeping nullifiers at bay (not letting them get to close to each other) should be priority if you see a bunch getting to close, mark them and tell your team to shoot from affar, pop bubbles, kill them, success! 

All I know is I'm farming mitter again. Will make life easier on sorties interceptions. 

[phoenix1992]

1 minute ago, Lokime said:

Well I can agree on that. Eximus nullifiers are monsters. But again, there is a a way, being tanky or melee frame (or both) helps a lot, slam attacks helps too, keeping nullifiers at bay (not letting them get to close to each other) should be priority if you see a bunch getting to close, mark them and tell your team to shoot from affar, pop bubbles, kill them, success! 

All I know is I'm farming mitter again. Will make life easier on sorties interceptions. 

I never did understand why fellow posters think that we are not aware of our options. 

Here, let me try to rephrase it in the "core" issue. 
The only way do deal with Corpus sortie right now is actuall high grade cheese. Be it mag, valkyr, mirage, frosty or whatever combo is valuable for the current meta. This limits our frames from 30+ to 10. This also hits hard new and mid-level players. Do you honestly think, that most of the posters lack the funds/gear to stay cheesy? 
I refuse to play certain combos (mirage with whatever, trinity with whatever), because it makes the game boring and repetitive. Yet the game shoves it again and again, that we must pick "meta", while masking it with "proper tools for proper job" slogan.

A good example of relative balance are the t3-t4 survivals - you are racing against something that is much stronger, than yourself yet you can do it YOUR way. Anything is on the table, even frames and weapons under the power curve - as long as you have polished them. I can't say the same about the current Sortie and Raid experience.

[(PSN)AceTheEmperor]

I've always thought that the nullifier's.   Bubble should get smaller naturally and grow back up to size over time to help balance them out because generally a room full of them is really tough to deal with 

[h41pa]

cause the like the raep little tenno's

 

[Rambit23Z]

50 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Are you a traveller from the future? Our limbo can't banish nullifiers (yet).

I just avoided the Nullifiers, and if I for some reason really needed to kill one, I'd just enter, shoot and go back to the rift.

50 minutes ago, letir said:

P.S. Still wait in repsonse to your "snipers excel" claim.

They excel at ridiculous range. Because it's a sniper. Sure, there aren't too many places for that, but when taking out anything but Nullies, they are relatively effective.

[Rambit23Z]

54 minutes ago, akira_him said:

effectiveness, fxxk auto correct

Well, if they find effectiveness fun, then that's a win-win situation for them.

Anyway, this is getting somewhat off-topic.

[S3EK3R]

1 hour ago, Rambit23Z said:

You stick to whatever weapon you heart desires. After all, that's the wonderful part about this game. Choice.

Then come the nullifier armies that limit my choices and force me to play a different style.

Don't get us wrong. 1-2 nullifiers are easy to deal with. But their spawnrate is too common and bunched together with other high-damage targets.

 

Punch Trough mods should let you disable the nullifier shields in one shot, if not outright bypassing them. If you're not willing to rework the entire unit. This solution lets snipers, bows and generally any precision weapon take out nullifiers from a safe distance away from eximus knockdown ranges. This does not change the nature of the unit, but provides the Tenno a better way to take them out.

Corpus are making advancements in order to combat the Tenno. Grineer are making advancements in order to combat the Tenno. Why can't the Tenno make advancements to counter these new high-threat targets effectively?

[Rambit23Z]

6 minutes ago, S3EK3R said:

Then come the nullifier armies that limit my choices and force me to play a different style.

Don't get us wrong. 1-2 nullifiers are easy to deal with. But their spawnrate is too common and bunched together with other high-damage targets.

 

Punch Trough mods should let you disable the nullifier shields in one shot, if not outright bypassing them. If you're not willing to rework the entire unit. This solution lets snipers, bows and generally any precision weapon take out nullifiers from a safe distance away from eximus knockdown ranges. This does not change the nature of the unit, but provides the Tenno a better way to take them out.

Corpus are making advancements in order to combat the Tenno. Grineer are making advancements in order to combat the Tenno. Why can't the Tenno make advancements to counter these new high-threat targets effectively?

Again, that would just make them regular sniper crewmen with a "Shoot me" sign on them. Also, nullifiers have never completely stopped any of my playstyles. They simply made me have to change up slightly and then I can go back to normal.

[Teshin_Dax]

What you can't do with nullifier:

-You can't revive other players...-because you have no defence... for example iron Skin will be just delete if you touch nullifier bubbles..
-Some warframe abilities are completly useless -> Rhino 1st 2nd 3dr 4th , Mesa 4th, Trinity 4th resistance, Valkyrs 2nd 3rd 4th ...and so on ...
(in short ... every Duration skill and melee skill like ->>>saryn's toxic lash<<<<<- (completly useless)
it only need's one tourch ... (and there are many bubbles)
-using bow's or snipers...the bubbles need a specific amount of hits .. not damage Points...

---and many Things more...

Corpus Masterrace? yes
 

[Blades_In_The_Dark]

On 3/25/2016 at 1:13 PM, Spar_k said:

Sonicor them..? If you can't kill it, send it out of the map... duh :P

That's what I do lol! Block my arrows will you? To the recesses of Space with you! *kerpow*

I'm also prone to chucking Glaives at them when I'm WAY too close, which kills me and causes them to short out their bubbles in what I can only conclude is laughter. 

They are an irritation, but there's too much division among the player base so NOTHING is going to change until we collectively say enough is enough. I don't advocate their existence, but I'm getting tired of wasting my breath pushing for change that nobody can agree on. The arguing just degrades any hopes at validity.

Just my 2 cents. Take it with a grain of salt cuz I'm nobody.

[letir]

Just now, Rambit23Z said:

They excel at ridiculous range. Because it's a sniper. Sure, there aren't too many places for that, but when taking out anything but Nullies, they are relatively effective.

Again, it's a false statement.

First, most rifles can shoot at "ridiculous range". There is plenty of pinpoint rifles, with hitscan capabilities. Some of them (like Latron) even have inhnce zoom to assist long-range aiming. In the same time, bows and Lanka shoot non-hitscan projectiels, which is very bad for long-range shooting.

Second, only sniper rifles have any kind of reticle swaying, and with with every zoom level reticle sway more and more. This fancy scope is more getting in the way of long-ranged sniping, making headshots unreliable. Other kind of weapons without recoil dosen't have any kind of swaying.

Third, sniper rifle is worse against Manics (fast-paced close combat), Bursas (front shields, requires active maneuvering to beat), Nullifiers, Juggernaut (timed weak point, requires active maneuvering to beat). They dosen't have any special capability to deal with Napalm/Bombard/Gunner, Comba/Scrambus or Ancient.

[Troll_Logic]

4 hours ago, S3EK3R said:

They force you play a certain playstyle, if you use a skill and tactical based build. It's a cheap unit designed purely to annoy players.

Scrub loadout: Soma Prime, Rhino Prime. No need to change playstyle. Just pump a map into the nullifier and it's done for.

Loadout based on skill: (Example): Nezha, Vectis Prime, Lex Prime, Dual Kama Prime. FORCES me to melee slide into the nullifier, diasbling my Warding Halo (The only thing keeping me alive in high-end) and opens me up to attacks from every angle.

 

Thank you very much. Just rework the nullifiers already.

So you're saying that certain frames, weapons, and strategies work better than others?

Exactly my point.

[(PSN)SupeBoss]

They house and protect other potentially high-priority enemies
They typically stack at higher levels

From distance:
They block all bullets - whether it's a rocket, a space-age sniper, or Bart Simpson's slingshot
They block all projectiles
They are immune to CC/all powers
They absorb AoE damage - a fairly recent buff (lol wut?)
THEY have snipers

Close Range:
They cancel all buffs and powers, leaving you completely vulnerable
They prevent casting of all powers
The bubble has a radius of ~10ft(?) and GOES THROUGH F*****G WALLS

They are, by far, the worst enemy in the entire game. They are the ENTIRE reason I do not play corpus maps. They slow the pace to a crawl, and they strip your Warframe of everything that makes it unique. I have no idea why they are still in the game. The corpus have enough going for them.

[Rambit23Z]

1 hour ago, letir said:

Again, it's a false statement.

First, most rifles can shoot at "ridiculous range". There is plenty of pinpoint rifles, with hitscan capabilities. Some of them (like Latron) even have inhnce zoom to assist long-range aiming. In the same time, bows and Lanka shoot non-hitscan projectiels, which is very bad for long-range shooting.

Second, only sniper rifles have any kind of reticle swaying, and with with every zoom level reticle sway more and more. This fancy scope is more getting in the way of long-ranged sniping, making headshots unreliable. Other kind of weapons without recoil dosen't have any kind of swaying.

Third, sniper rifle is worse against Manics (fast-paced close combat), Bursas (front shields, requires active maneuvering to beat), Nullifiers, Juggernaut (timed weak point, requires active maneuvering to beat). They dosen't have any special capability to deal with Napalm/Bombard/Gunner, Comba/Scrambus or Ancient.

I've already stated what needs to be said in regard to your argument. But, as I said. This is getting off-topic. The focus here is nullifiers, not snipers.

[SerenitT]

Don't worry, I'll just use my sancti tigris that turns everything short of super high enemies into meat noodles in one kablamo.

...

Oh wait it doesn't work on shields for some reason because logic?

In all seriousness though, those shields should really just be damage based and factor in a weapon's crit rate. ( I dont think you can actually crit a nully shield?) 

[Rambit23Z]

6 minutes ago, SerenitT said:

Don't worry, I'll just use my sancti tigris that turns everything short of super high enemies into meat noodles in one kablamo.

...

Oh wait it doesn't work on shields for some reason because logic?

In all seriousness though, those shields should really just be damage based and factor in a weapon's crit rate. ( I dont think you can actually crit a nully shield?) 

Tigris is perhaps the best weapon to use INSIDE of a nully bubble though.

[phoenix1992]

5 hours ago, Rambit23Z said:

Tigris is perhaps the best weapon to use INSIDE of a nully bubble though.

I disagree both with humor and seriousness.
You would need an AoE weapon inside the dome, since the mob is not alone in there. He usually has buds that want to say "hi". So shooting sonicor/angstrum/penta or whatever overkill weapon you have in your arsenal is advised.
I on the other side trow a angry fit and go in suicidal melee charge.

 

7 hours ago, LilithBlack said:

Just my 2 cents. Take it with a grain of salt cuz I'm nobody.

You... stop doing that. Sarcasm aside, your opinion is as much valuable as many others.

[Rambit23Z]

1 minute ago, phoenix1992 said:

I disagree both with humor and seriousness.
You would need an AoE weapon inside the dome, since the mob is not alone in there. He usually has buds that want to say "hi". So shooting sonicor/angstrum/penta or whatever overkill weapon you have in your arsenal is advised.
I on the other side trow a angry fit and go in suicidal melee charge.

I don't know what other use but Vicious Spread (Wider Cone) and Seeking Fury (2.1 Punch Through) makes for hell of a crowd clearer. A crowd clearer that one shots everything.