Nerf Ash

[Anubias]

well de said that there will be ash bladestorm rework eventually even though i love bladestorm in its current form its very powerfull (and not most powerfull frame some of them can 1shot kill enemies if used wisely and new saryn can kill lvl 100+ enemies with ease(again if you know how she works and have right build)) One thing that ash currently provides is high kill count on ash user cause when you use bladestorm. His rework will probably give his blades "exalted" status it would synergize with 1st and teleport doing additional dmg. His ult must wait for now cause DE said next on rework table will be volt. I just hope DE will leave animations of bladestorm cause they are awesome XD

 

Edited March 27, 2016 by Anubias

[Lord_of_Lords]

Ash was already ninja-nerfed....

His Bladestorm is doing slash damage instead of finisher damage.  Tested in Simaricum with Bombards, Anchients, Infested, and Scorpions and the damage numbers (not the slash dot) are consistent with being slash damage because they are not the same on every enemy and the differ by the correct percent for each armor type.

[Magnulast]

36 minutes ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

The only time enemies are invulnerable is during Stealth kill animations, meaning when he or one of the clones is actively attacking said enemy.  If the enemy is just marked, you can still kill it before the Bladestorm hits it.

I don't think you get it, and I know that, it is a problem because it's solely RNG, and apparently, it auto selects the enemies closest to the ally(Pure speculation), also, he hops around constantly thus resulting in annoying. Blaming people for skill before the cast on bladestorm, on in-between bladestorm isn't a logical answer, it is still extremely annoying, either he does his job INSTANT(Nova's Antimatter drop(not to be confused with MP)) or(/Both, mirage's prism and Equinox's maim) LET IT BE CO-OP.(Exalted blade is solo, however allies can help you) There is no reason why it should be this way, bladestorm fans are of what? Press 4 to win? Just slap a energy restore+primed flow+efficiency and duration mods and what do you get? lots of triggers of bladestorm at your disposal.

And how effective is this? Pretty annoying, it still takes a while till it adds up to create damage, not to mention it does not stun the enemy onto the ground, making them able to make short bursts of damage to your allies.

I know ash is a SOLO frame, but he SHOULDN'T be used in PUBLIC MATCHES(At his current state), or a EASY TOOL FOR GRINDING for rookies.

note: Ash should not scale with one ability damage wise, despite the second ability, smokescreen scales similar to invis, He also needs a formidable defense in order to be a little more resilient than loki.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Magnulast
Added more grammar fixes+paranthesis

[G4d0]

So seem like you havent seen Saryn steal the kill from Ash.

[(PSN)horridhal]

1 hour ago, Magnulast said:

I know ash is a SOLO frame, but he SHOULDN'T be used in PUBLIC MATCHES(At his current state), or a EASY TOOL FOR GRINDING for rookies.

1.  What makes Ash a Solo frame?  I actually won't even run my Ash unless I'm going into a group of some kind because there isn't a big enough spawn for Bladestorm to be effective otherwise.

2.  Can you give me any reason why he shouldn't be the way he is other than you don't like him or he steals kills?  Both of those reasons are moot, as is he is a P42W frame, because as I stated in the first page of this thread, this is a co-op game.  You aren't losing anything by having that Ash take the kills and it is actually more beneficial to anyone leveling gear to let an Ash get all the kills due to the way Affinity works.  Especially with the Focus changes.  If you don't like him the option to not use him, or play with others using him, exists naturally.

Edited March 27, 2016 by (PS4)horridhal

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

5 hours ago, (PS4)Eluminary said:

Ember can kill even faster with her fourth at least until enemies get over lvl 50-60 ish.  She's already been reworked too... but she might be next to nerf list after ash.

Ember is finalised, they seem to be happy with result. And actually ash will likely become better. He will be able to keep selecting new targets for bladestorm after initial cast and possibly even keep walking and shooting simulor /tonkor /tigris. So that he actually steals 100% of kills.

He is fine as he is now. Devs discussed that camera is wonky and being locked into animation without any way to stop it on demand or select additional targets is bad. This is getting fixed. The damage etc. is fully intentional. They never talked about nerfing anything. They talked about making bladestorm more pleasant to eyes and having control over selecting targets instead of being locked into the initially marked ones. Yes, I did my research. 

[Littlerift]

Good to see all of the same excuses we saw when Saryn was getting her rework: 'Just cause you can't kill more enemies', 'He's fine, you just suck and don't know how to use him', 'It doesn't matter if he's OP because X is also OP'.

 

I wonder if it's crossed the minds of the defenders that a rework might actually make him an interesting and variable frame that can actually cooperate with a team, rather than a frame that is all about personal gratification.

[PrincessPilfer]

Ash gets me killed. Other melee frames tend to be reliant on lifesteal or invisibility to survive at high levels, and unless your name is Loki or Excaliber  (or you're a hystaria valk) then Ash bladestorming at the wrong moment is a death sentnce because you can't get the trigger you need. Other frames (or weapons) *could* screw you over like that, but because bladestorm is a 36 meter radial ability if he's anywhere near you he's *going* to screw you.

 

Just my thoughts. Also, bladestorm is far, far more potent than Peacemaker ever was yet Peacemaker DPS is nerfed  and Ash just gets to keep doing his thing.

Edited March 27, 2016 by ForumPirate

[-Temp0-]

Just now, ForumPirate said:

Just my thoughts. Also, bladestorm is far, far more potent than Peacemaker ever was yet Peacemaker DPS is nerfed  and Ash just gets to keep doing his thing.

So you're happy with how Mesa turned out to be then? Peacemaker is nerfed to the ground to the point that no one uses it at all, and no one bothered to work on the shooting gallery or her first ability to compensate on such a harsh nerf - so she can be only played solo now. Ash doesn't even have that, he's like nova - his fourth is his first and last resort, if you mess it up he's done for.

[PrincessPilfer]

32 minutes ago, Nomen_Nescio said:

So you're happy with how Mesa turned out to be then? Peacemaker is nerfed to the ground to the point that no one uses it at all, and no one bothered to work on the shooting gallery or her first ability to compensate on such a harsh nerf - so she can be only played solo now. Ash doesn't even have that, he's like nova - his fourth is his first and last resort, if you mess it up he's done for.

Except for his invisibility, and his teleport that opens up finishers so he can destroy single targets you mean? The actually good moves few people use because they can just bladestorm?

 

Strawman. If Mesas ability to kill all the weaker enemies in a 50 meter radius with 1 move is unacceptable, why does Ash get it but for absolutely everything? It's also affected by combo multipliers so that 2000 damage per hit is quite easily made 6000 damage per hit with an additional 2100 damage in bleed. He's also invincible during the animation and continues to regen energy from every source, as well as it suffering no negative effect from the negative duration of fleeting expertise. Combined with streamline and basically anything that regenerates energy He can and does have an almost (or actually) permanent invincibility/AoE kill button.

 

There are no 2 ways about it, it needs a nerf. It doesn't need to be nerfed into the ground and made useless (which peacemaker is not FYI, though it was overnerfed in that it's cone damage increase does not make up for the overall decrease) but it shouldn't work like it does. I'd even be Ok with it doing more damage (it's damage against high level heavies isn't great, which is probably why he has the stun/teleport/finisher combo going in smoke bomb and teleport) as long as it isn't the only move he ever needs that he can spam forever to be invincible while also out damaging most everyone else.

 

The simplest way might be to give it a duration (instead of an attack limit, so negative duration is a bigger deal) or make it an expensive channel. In either case, he would be stopped from using just that to be permanently invincible while also killing everything and could be forced to use it much like Saryn currently uses miasma (I.E. to kill a lot of weaker things right now but can't spam the ability to keep everything from hitting him forever.)

Edited March 27, 2016 by ForumPirate

[Azzaruth]

I don't mind Ash really, even in Draco. It makes the runs slightly smoother when going for the keys, and also because I like to try to race them for the most damage using an Atterax and a furis, I find it amusing.

[Tesseract7777]

35 minutes ago, Nomen_Nescio said:

So you're happy with how Mesa turned out to be then? Peacemaker is nerfed to the ground to the point that no one uses it at all, and no one bothered to work on the shooting gallery or her first ability to compensate on such a harsh nerf - so she can be only played solo now. Ash doesn't even have that, he's like nova - his fourth is his first and last resort, if you mess it up he's done for.

 

Peacemaker, like miasma, always had poor scaling in terms of damage. People stopped using Mesa because she was no longer the Queen of low to mid level efficiency farming.

While I have always contended that peacemaker needs a buff, I think saying it was nerfed is innacurate. It's not really great for efficiency farming anymore, but if used right it can arguably scale even better. Even if she still needs more buffs, that is a buff, not a nerf.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Tesseract7777

[-Temp0-]

I kinda like Mesa for her 2 and 3, but 2 is pretty damn bad with a team for her survivability. Couldn't care less about peacemaker itself, would rather see it being replaced with some other ability - and not saying some damage ability of other kind. The main problem here is not the nerf itself, but the fact there was no rework. She was just nerfed because of all the whining

The problem with peacemaker is not his damage or lack of scaling, it's hideous visual effect, inability to move, energy drain and so on. 

12 minutes ago, ForumPirate said:

Strawman. If Mesas ability to kill all the weaker enemies in a 50 meter radius with 1 move is unacceptable, why does Ash get it but for absolutely everything?

So it's okay to nerf stuff because some jelly people want to see one frame being ruined because the other got ruined before it and we can't have nice things. The logic that hides behind the word "balancing" these days.

Except for his invisibility, and his teleport that opens up finishers so he can destroy single targets you mean? The actually good moves few people use because they can just bladestorm?

Yeah ability that can destroy a single target at a time in a game like WF surely helps a lot... not.

[PrincessPilfer]

Another strawman. That's not what I said at all. It's not OK from a gameplay perspective. Nobody else gets to do anything or even needs to do anything because that 1 frame with that 1 ability can handle just about everything all by itself. Unlike Mesa, who couldn't do it past level 40 ish, Ash can do it up into the hundreds.

 

Yes, in fact is does. The ability to insta kill a level 100+ heavy gunner or bombard from across a room that otherwise threatens to kill the whole party or force them all to retreat is extremely useful, as long as your frame also has the ability to be useful for something else. Not to mention that smokescreen and teleport are dirt cheap to begin with (25 and 35, respectively) which means properly built he can just keep doing it and kill all the heavies in a room

[Magnulast]

2 hours ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

1.  What makes Ash a Solo frame?  I actually won't even run my Ash unless I'm going into a group of some kind because there isn't a big enough spawn for Bladestorm to be effective otherwise.

2.  Can you give me any reason why he shouldn't be the way he is other than you don't like him or he steals kills?  Both of those reasons are moot, as is he is a P42W frame, because as I stated in the first page of this thread, this is a co-op game.  You aren't losing anything by having that Ash take the kills and it is actually more beneficial to anyone leveling gear to let an Ash get all the kills due to the way Affinity works.  Especially with the Focus changes.  If you don't like him the option to not use him, or play with others using him, exists naturally.

/----------------NOTE BUGGED RESPONSE-------------------Quotations are unable to be removed.\

1. What makes ASH a solo frame? (Refering to stealth groups are never hosted.)Are you telling me Teleport, Shuriken and Smokebomb are CC moves? they simply aren't, the reason why I state Ash is a solo frame is because his setup on how his ability is used, He's a offensive stealth, not a powerhouse. Bladestorm-only ash users shouldn't be used on sortie exterminates to make up for a restriction. Or used for Draco focus farming. Yeah REALLY skilled players on sortie missions, all you need is a build completely unfair that bypasses the restriction, and VIOLA you can bladestorm spam. Valkyr requires effort, and can be killed due to energy restrictions.

2. First of, I want to state that I use sayrn and zephyr, and prefer close combat (I don't use much valkyr because I will have to revive people and lack of CC fun), I find him annoying in Close areas of combat, In Draco or in most Interceptions enemies run toward a interception point right? The problem is that a ash simply camps and selects the first enemy toward the group. The enemies are in the bloody front, the first barrier/wall/unit/blah. Not only that, he just simply takes his time to kill the bloody enemy. So that means we have to wait till he stops in order to do damage to that enemy in a group, in other words, we are waiting for to kill the last enemy, pretty much, he locks three enemies that we can't kill till he ends his eternal slapping that are RIGHT next to me(Even though he kills them faster, that isn't a excuse to simply not exit bladestorm and let them die faster), that i can shoot and do no damage what so ever.  Does that even make you annoyed? Seeing a enemy right next to you, getting hit when you can't do anything? It's dumb and selfish. Also, don't even start with the "Focus changes" or "More beneficial" that's a horrendous reason to make thing SLOWER for other frames and A LOT LESS FUN for those frames. Nor do I do draco for grinding affinity all the time. Whenever I do Draco, I expect enemies to group up to get fast kills, not let a Weaker assist lock enemies so he does The least effort to be called "Helpful." My point is, he's a trash frame at the moment, he's only good for bladestorm, and that's the ONLY REASON that you've given me to prove he's helpful. I think it's better to nerf the focus gain from bladestorm. Because that's all that I see he's used for.

(Saryn 4-round draco, 1600~ kills max//Ash+Saryn 4 round draco  Ash 9XX~ kills Saryn 8XX~ kills//Ash 4 round draco, Less than 1k kills for due to less spores.)

No crud this is a Co-op game, but it's not a be a little pest to the enemy and the ally. As I said, it's ANNOYING does it look like I care about what he gives? that's a excuse towards not removing his annoyance. A Saryn press 4 to win player excuse (Saying usefulness over fun(or effort user** )), I'm not here to nerf his a ability to kill, I want him to stop being a troll.

He's a annoyance towards higher levels in crowd killing, and still limiting what the other tenno can do depending on their setup.

Now I ask you, what do you want to keep on Bladestorm that isn't unfair or annoying?(Refering to insanely cheap energy cost mainly.)

Edited March 28, 2016 by Magnulast
Adding clarification.

[(PSN)horridhal]

3 hours ago, Magnulast said:

Are you telling me Teleport, Shuriken and Smokebomb are CC moves? they simply aren't, the reason why I state Ash is a solo frame is because his setup on how his ability is used, He's a offensive stealth, not a powerhouse. Bladestorm-only ash users shouldn't be used on sortie exterminates to make up for a restriction. Or used for Draco focus farming. Yeah REALLY skilled players on sortie missions, all you need is a build completely unfair that bypasses the restriction, and VIOLA you can bladestorm spam. Valkyr requires effort, and can be killed due to energy restrictions.

I never said those were CC abilities.  I simply asked why you claim he is a solo frame.  Your reasoning completely ignores that he provides damage output to a team in a game where most of the damage output is based around weaponry.  His smoke screen, while weaker than Loki's pure invisibility, can be used to provide support to the team through revives, and can also provide invisibility to the team by using an augment.   You also seem to ignore that any frame can be made in a way to bypass the Energy issues of a sortie.  Rhino can spam stomp, Nezha can spam Spears, and on, and on.

3 hours ago, Magnulast said:

2. First of, I want to state that I use sayrn and zephyr, and prefer close combat (I don't use much valkyr because I will have to revive people and lack of CC fun), I find him annoying in Close areas of combat, In Draco or in most Interceptions enemies run toward a interception point right? 

Again, the choice for you to not run him, while allowing other people the opportunity to run him exists naturally.  No one is making you use Ash, or play in squads with an Ash.  They definitely aren't in every game.

3 hours ago, Magnulast said:

The problem is that a ash simply camps and selects the first enemy toward the group. The enemies are in the bloody front, the first barrier/wall/unit/blah. Not only that, he just simply takes his time to kill the bloody enemy. So that means we have to wait till he stops in order to do damage to that enemy in a group, in other words, we are waiting for to kill the last enemy, pretty much, he locks three enemies that we can't kill till he ends his eternal slapping that are RIGHT next to me(Even though he kills them faster, that isn't a excuse to simply not exit bladestorm and let them die faster), that i can shoot and do no damage what so ever.  Does that even make you annoyed? Seeing a enemy right next to you, getting hit when you can't do anything? It's dumb and selfish.

As I've stated several times, those marked enemies aren't immortal, regardless of how often you proclaim it to be so.  They are ONLY immune to damage while Ash or one of the clones is actually attacking them.  Any other time you can kill them and it really isn't hard to steal kills off a Bladestorm.  Nobody is telling you not to shoot marked targets.  Also, no, it doesn't annoy me.  This is a co-op game and there are plenty of enemies for everyone.  I don't much care about the kill numbers at the end of a match.  Oh, and it isn't selfish to use your abilities to kill enemies for the team.  IJS.

3 hours ago, Magnulast said:

My point is, he's a trash frame at the moment, he's only good for bladestorm, and that's the ONLY REASON that you've given me to prove he's helpful. I think it's better to nerf the focus gain from bladestorm. Because that's all that I see he's used for.

I just provided you with several reasons.  However I'm sure you'll promptly ignore them, or disregard them, in order to continue pretending Bladestorm is the only skill in his kit.  Oh, and with Shared affinity on Focus you are now officially out of reasons to dislike him other than "He steals my kills," which is still a pointless complaint in a game where you can choose not to use or play with an Ash.

3 hours ago, Magnulast said:

He's a annoyance towards higher levels in crowd killing, and still limiting what the other tenno can do depending on their setup.

So, because you are unable to see the benefits of the frame it must be worthless, right?  /s

[Magnulast]

1 hour ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

I never said those were CC abilities.  I simply asked why you claim he is a solo frame.  Your reasoning completely ignores that he provides damage output to a team in a game where most of the damage output is based around weaponry.  His smoke screen, while weaker than Loki's pure invisibility, can be used to provide support to the team through revives, and can also provide invisibility to the team by using an augment.   You also seem to ignore that any frame can be made in a way to bypass the Energy issues of a sortie.  Rhino can spam stomp, Nezha can spam Spears, and on, and on.

Again, the choice for you to not run him, while allowing other people the opportunity to run him exists naturally.  No one is making you use Ash, or play in squads with an Ash.  They definitely aren't in every game.

As I've stated several times, those marked enemies aren't immortal, regardless of how often you proclaim it to be so.  They are ONLY immune to damage while Ash or one of the clones is actually attacking them.  Any other time you can kill them and it really isn't hard to steal kills off a Bladestorm.  Nobody is telling you not to shoot marked targets.  Also, no, it doesn't annoy me.  This is a co-op game and there are plenty of enemies for everyone.  I don't much care about the kill numbers at the end of a match.  Oh, and it isn't selfish to use your abilities to kill enemies for the team.  IJS.

I just provided you with several reasons.  However I'm sure you'll promptly ignore them, or disregard them, in order to continue pretending Bladestorm is the only skill in his kit.  Oh, and with Shared affinity on Focus you are now officially out of reasons to dislike him other than "He steals my kills," which is still a pointless complaint in a game where you can choose not to use or play with an Ash.

So, because you are unable to see the benefits of the frame it must be worthless, right?  /s

 

 

I said he was a offensive stealth, and not a powerhouse, i'm referring towards many players that bring him to high level and just use bladestorm.

Why do I refer to him as a solo frame? All his abilities focus on destroying a single target, and he doesn't support other frames properly(if you start a conversation on properly, I know you are desperate) Likewise, can you say inaros or valkyr is a Support frame?. That's why I call it a solo frame, also my first sentence should have rang a bell. Offensive Stealth.

And what? WOW Rhino can bypass, Ne zha can by pass. but all they do is STUN, where as Ash Can kill.

Give me a better reason, Mirage can die, same for equinox. Ash is immune, that's why he's a cheapskate. It's obvious.

Is it fair that Ash can get 20 kills within 7-5~ seconds on 80-100lvl sortie enimies? While we get a stun just to make up for it? Ash can ruin sayrn's combo, as said in the radiation proc sortie.

I already know that they enemies are not immortal from ash's bladestorm Context clues. "3 enemies are locked."

However he can still lock three enemies for a short period of time to kill. Right next to you, that you can probably kill 10x faster than him.

"I just provided you with several reasons." None at all. Completely off topic and useless towards my reasoning of why I dislike him.

Did I ever say anything about ash's kit usefulness? Simple answer is yes, however that only depicted Crowd Control disadvantage.

Seriously? I Try to kill the marked targets? Of course not, I try to keep my Spores up, and selects my targets and then annoys me. 

It's easy to steal kills from ash's bladestorm, And by how is that even remotely useful if either way occurs? All he's doing is making his point less useful.

Also when did I ever say that I was going to use Ash for bladestorm spam? I use Ash for high speed assault, using teleport, and maybe shuriken. But I never use him, why? I didn't want to mod him at all, I gave up due to how he's setup. Just using low duration and high speed teleports. He gets boring due to stealth mechanics being clunky.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are you UNABLE to see what I'm talking about? Apparently so, you'll never know since you disregard other people's opinions and replace the questions.

Derailing the topic further into your idea of "Usefulness" is not the point, that's a excuse as told beforehand.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, read my VERY first post again, I'm not going to reply until you learn my point, so ask yourself this. What's my point? And why do I hate it?

It should have been obvious and all you do is complain that he's useful, when he's another saryn press 4 to win frame only just poorer at his rate of completion.

--------------------------/Short summary/-------------------

Your reply is derailing from my main point, if you know what that is at all.

His abilities are simply one enemy at a time, and due to the fact no-one stealth's with ash unless using bladestorm, is why I call him solo.

If you learned how to use context clues maybe, just maybe you'll understand.

Excuses, excuses, and more whining excuses, you did read my first post didn't you? If you didn't I suggest you do. You choose to post them and I clearly stated what I thought of them.. I'll give you a hint, it's called Bladestorm spam. 

You can't see my point, so why even bother replying when you can't understand how I feel about him, oh SURE POST ABOUT SARYN'S PRESS 4 TO WIN removal, and now let's POST ABOUT ASH'S PRESS 4 TO WIN REMOVAL. Not funny, his other abilities does not make up for his 4th ability.

Make one more derailing comment on your reply from my main point as stated from the start, and I won't reply back.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Magnulast
Fixed Hidden comment issues.

[Teloch]

10 hours ago, Kalel_087 said:

B) instead of nerf put in a block 3 Heros you want  and two you don't want in your party. Warframe has grown enough to allow this feature.

This will cause matchmaking 'thrombosis' to the game, unfortunately.
Do I need to remind you to what consequences this 'symptom' usually leads?

Edited March 28, 2016 by Teloch

[ClinkzEastwood]

9 hours ago, Fate0 said:

Welcome to online gaming forums were people turn a completely co-op based game into a competition between each other when someone is out shining their choice of character yet they have the same choice as you to use said character. I thought this was worst on the diablo forums but i was mistaken.

What co-op? 

Other 3 players are just spawn fodder for Ash to have more enemies to press 4 on.

A good co-op game allow all players to have a role in the game, not 1 player doing all the job while other 3 jerking off each other to avoid depression from boredom.

[Fate0]

1 hour ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

What co-op? 

Other 3 players are just spawn fodder for Ash to have more enemies to press 4 on.

A good co-op game allow all players to have a role in the game, not 1 player doing all the job while other 3 jerking off each other to avoid depression from boredom.

Ash's design by DE was a stealth solo frame and his abilities complement that to a degree. Of course if your need of self gratification comes in the form of having a comparative kill score to someone else you are playing with and this affects your enjoyment of a game then that seems like a personal problem and your losing focus on the reason your playing the game to have fun. You do have a degree of control and co-op its probably better to not do with with randoms or if your that worried about having more kills than people on your team an easy fix for that is kill them all yourself...in solo. I play many frames and wouldn't say i "main" Ash so im not trying to keep my frame from being scrutinized. Simply stating complaining about a game that most would consider a co-op experience when your main objective is to eliminate the enemies as fast as possible is silly. And before someone yells balance, i believe blade storm itself is balanced to a particular playstyle as the developers initially designed.

[ClinkzEastwood]

3 minutes ago, Fate0 said:

Ash's design by DE was a stealth solo frame and his abilities complement that to a degree. Of course if your need of self gratification comes in the form of having a comparative kill score to someone else you are playing with and this affects your enjoyment of a game then that seems like a personal problem and your losing focus on the reason your playing the game to have fun. You do have a degree of control and co-op its probably better to not do with with randoms or if your that worried about having more kills than people on your team an easy fix for that is kill them all yourself...in solo. I play many frames and wouldn't say i "main" Ash so im not trying to keep my frame from being scrutinized. Simply stating complaining about a game that most would consider a co-op experience when your main objective is to eliminate the enemies as fast as possible is silly. And before someone yells balance, i believe blade storm itself is balanced to a particular playstyle as the developers initially designed.

I'm not talking about kill counts.

I'm talking about other 3 players are just spawn fodder for Ash to have more enemies to press 4 on so all they can do is jerking each other off to avoid boredom.

[fatpig84]

My Ember Prime out kills Ash in Draco. But this is to be expected from a Multi-forma Ember.
But Ember definitely needs to move around a lot more.

Ash can sit on the box and just snipe targets from there, so he can do it easier and more importantly, his damage scales higher especially with body count.

Turning his damage into normal IPS will cause tears though, but it is the most balanced approach.

[CrudShuzKong]

12 hours ago, (PS4)ChiefsFury1984 said:

There needs to be at least 1 op frame & ash is the one.

 

there are a lot of op frames and ash isnt among them, he has nothing to add to a team but his Bladestorm and it isnt even that op either, just a strong nuke.

That being said, he is the most p42w frame in the game, requires 0 skill to use thanks to invincibility and is obnoxius as hell for all his teammatesm making whole rooms invincible until he is finally done with his BS.

Also thers currently no frames in the game that need nerfs except maybe trinity, but theres a lot that need reworks. Nerfing doesnt solve any problems and only makes fans of the frame mad by making said frame useless. 

[LascarCapable]

Thread cleaned from multiple off topic/unconstructive/antagonizing answers.

• This thread is about Ash. Not Mesa, Ember, or whatever. Ash. Please don't be off topic.
• Please keep in mind that Ad Hominem is not constructive. Don't use personnal attacks (ex : "You are just salty").
• Don't antagonize players for having different opinions than yours.
• Stay civil.

 

 

[Xaentrick]

Blamestorm is a very powerful skill, that I can not dispute. Though you can always tell the people who play ash and those who just build for his fourth. As those of us who play him almost religiously tend to build for things other than bladestorm. It just gets boring if that is all you are doing in a mission. Personally I do not think it needs a nerf, it dues however need more interaction. Which is why I can not wait to see how they change up that ability.