The debate over which shotgun is better

[CynicalAutumn]

As with any debate, I wanted to know what shotgun is superior, the sancti Tigris, or the mighty Vaykor hek. I'm not talking about overall status proc and the effects they have, but overall damage and popularity. I know the Tigris is better in damage but I heard people like the Hek more. So tell me which is the best shotgun in terms of damage and how popular it is.

[Herosupport]

I like the Sancti Tigris for its sheer damage per shot but its downside is its firing mechanic it would be nice if it was just semi auto and its one of the few weapons that benefits from the slash mod.

on the other hand the the Vaykor Hek is semi auto and has 8 rounds the downside is that primed mods exist rather then just changing the base mod to have more ranks. 

they both have a syndicate bomb so if you have the shotgun 120% slash mod and or primed ravage then you cant go wrong with either, So do you want the sancti tigris fast/more reloads or Vaykor Hek slower rate of fire/less reloads?

Edit: to answer your question for me I have the 120% slash mod so ill be using the Sancti Tigris over my Vaykor Hek.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Herosupport

[Xzorn]

Both shotguns perform better in different situations.

Ultimately if you're asking which is the utmost best possible in terms of damage, the Answer is Sancti Tigris.

 

Sacti Tigris being mostly Slash damage gains a boost over it's already higher DPS in a CPX4 environment. Where as Vaykor Hek actually performs worse.

Vaykor Hek performs best against Armored units, where it's puncture damage bonus can kick in and status chance matters a bit more.

I prefer Vaykor Hek for it's overall handling and being mag based. I also mostly solo and that's where Vaykor Hek works best.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

After using both I like the Vaykor Hek over the Sancti Tigris. But that's like saying I like a brunette bombshell over a blonde one. Both are fun and I'm not going to say no to these gals for some game play. It's really situational. The Vaykor Hek can get the job done with the eight rounds, coupled with the health AOE being used to shore up the Energy Siphon's gain on balancing out the frame I use on both Survivals, Intercepts, and Defenses. While the Sancti Tigris is just perfect for exterminate, captures, and boss missions in destroying the target utterly. 

 

 

[phoenix1992]

I also use the Hek.
It is more forgiving in the hands of a player that is not perfectionist like me.

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

I prefer tigris. In optimal conditions it's straight up better. Proc is also better. Vaykor proc briefly opens enemies to finishers but it's only relevant for cleavers. 

[Xzorn]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Ozone1249953 said:

Ummm no. Vaykor Hek wins in burst and sustained with an optimized build. Sancti wins in per shot

Sancti wins in both burst DPS and per shot damage esp if you use punch-through. Vaykor wins in Sustained DPS. Though it can win in Burst if you use Shotgun Spaz for some reason.

I would question how important sustained DPS is on a shotgun however, again esp if you use punch-through. But once you add in Sancti 21765 Avg. Slash Vs Vaykor 2415 Avg. into Bleed damage you'll find Sancti can rival even possibly beat Vakor in sustained DPS as well, given somehow there were enough time, which is why in a one-shot type weapon Sustained DPS is a questionable stat.

Though, I should have been more specific.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Xzorn

[----Fenrir----]

Against enemies both the Vaykor Hek and the Sancti Tigris can kill in one-shot the Hek is imho better because of the larger clip size. Against really high level enemies on the other hand the Tigris performs a little better. That advantage grows when using 4x CP because of slash vs puncture.

When playing Nova the Tigris is also clearly the better choice because it works a little better with anti-matter drop. One Tigris clip gets it to the damage cap making the Tigris the best weapon for Nova.

[DuskLegendary]

I recently hit MR12 and picked up the Tigris. I have all the mods I need for it and I'm currently making 4 Forma I'll need for the build. Am I going to have fun with this weapon?

[CynicalAutumn]

I picked up both of the shotguns today and I gotta say, hek needs to control its recoil Imo but I'll get used to it soon. I'm currently on a 2 forma build so what build should I go for? Currently have Primed Point Blank and ravage, so uh, yeah...

[ThorienKELL]

Both weapons are top class and they mechanics vary, so that you can take one you prefer more. For me choice is sancti in most cases, sheer badassery, risk/reward mechanics, more skill based and safer for tough high-level enemies. 

[Xzorn]

8 hours ago, (PS4)Ozone1249953 said:

If both go for headshots the gap widens even more since its crit based. On body shots Sancti Tigris comes close in DPS. Regular headshots do 2x damage of a non crit while critical headshots deal 4x damage of a crit which substantially boosts the Vaykor hek's DPS

 

Headshot? With a shotgun? Do you mean upper torso shot? cuz any further up and you waste pellet count. A shotgun is a body shot weapon, it's ideal for punch-through, This is a horde shooter and you're already using a low Fire Rate weapon that without punch-through also has a fairly low kill per minute rating. It's not much better than a sniper without punch-through. Doing extra damage via headcrits is completely null when you end up missing with nearly half your pellet count.

A Zoom mod? This might look good on paper but it will very much lower your kills per minute with a one shot weapon like a shotgun. You spend 0.5 seconds adjusting to zoom for each shot or 0.25 seconds adjusting to a new target holding zoom and you also loose all peripheral vision to your surroundings. You're simply slower using zoom. There's no real gain here in terms of kill rate.

I think you also highly underestimate the additional bleed damage Sancti Tigris is capable of.

With a pellet count of 13 per shot using multishot, 25% status per pellet you will see an Avg probability of 3.5 procs per shot or more, or 7 procs per second with 63% Slashing weight and 2.0 fire rate, that's 4.4 Slash Procs per Second at 1,712 (2140 Vs. Flesh ) Slashing damage per pellet so 749 Bleed damage per pellet per tick. 749 * 4.4 Avg. =  3,296 Avg. Bleed per tick. Over 6 seconds firing 12 times for 26.4 total Slash procs at 7 ticks each for 138,415 continuous bleed over 6 seconds or 23,069 continuous Bleed per second.

This brings Sancti Tigris Sustained DPS to 75k ( 97k Vs. Flesh ) While the Laser Sight build you show is 71k (103k Vs. Flesh). Counting headshots Vakor has better sheet DPS but If you mod with punch-through Vakor drops to 55k (80k Vs Flesh) and Tigris to 46k ( 66k Vs. Flesh + ~20k Bleed = 86k DPS ).  Vakor gains DPS in headshots but Tigris still rivals in Sustained because of Bleeds as well as Burst DPS while beating Vaykor in damage per shot and will likely do more overall damage because you're not aiming upwards for headshots, so punch-through will do more work.

Damage per shot being the most important stat for a shotgun and the reason you mod it with punch-through.

 

 

[CynicalAutumn]

So does Hek have already inate punchthrough by itself?

[Xzorn]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Ozone1249953 said:

Heks have the tightest spread and least damage drop off of all shotguns in the game so what are you talking about? Have you even used the weapon? and btw sancti cant even reach 25% status per pellet because the status in the U.I is the chance for ONE PELLET to proc lol. So you end up with less than 9% status per pellet, which isn't worth modding for, AT ALL. Multishot throws this number off and can confuse players like you

I'm talking about the angle of your shots when using punch-through with headshots Vs. Body shots. You have higher damage potential with a level shotgun blast than you do with an upwards angle headshot where It's very likely you will hit nothing at all behind the target. I didn't mention falloff because in the end they're both shotguns.

And you're wrong 25% status chance on a shotgun is the chance for each pellet to proc. I purposely used the Base Status Chance to not distort this value and added pellets via multishot to each shot (13 instead of 6 ) into a binomial distribution calculation to find the Avg number of status procs at 50% or higher with any given shot. Sancti's UI status chance with multishot is around 46%  it's base value is 25%. You can also use Status Triggered = Number of Pellets × (1 − (1 − Status Chance)^{(1 ÷ Number of Pellets)})

Since you don't seem to know it's base or multishot status:  I return your question, Have you even used the weapon?

[Xzorn]

On 3/31/2016 at 0:48 PM, CynicalAutumn said:

As with any debate, I wanted to know what shotgun is superior, the sancti Tigris, or the mighty Vaykor hek. I'm not talking about overall status proc and the effects they have, but overall damage and popularity. I know the Tigris is better in damage but I heard people like the Hek more. So tell me which is the best shotgun in terms of damage and how popular it is.

 

They're both equally popular weapons and they're both very good weapons, I would suggest everyone own both.

Status chance plays a roll in damage output due to a Viral or Corrosive proc and in Sancti Trigris' case Bleed Damage. Sadly the little numbers also count when it comes to damage output. I think Vaykor handles better using a mag but I also think Tigris is very fun and satisfying with it's Doom2 style double barrel action. I've seen Tigris take down an entire hallway of enemies with one shot while Vaykor can better deal with multiple enemies in different directions.

They both have their own perks and I really wouldn't choose one over the other for general use, only for a specific setup or intention.

[Xzorn]

40 minutes ago, (PS4)Ozone1249953 said:

You treat punch through as if it's something that you could only put on the sancti. I didn't add punch through because that build was focused on taking down heavies as quick as possible late game, and in late game scenarios even with the sancti tigris you will have to go for headshots anyway to kill things, and the vaykor is simply better in that situation as it scales greatly being crit based

 

Ill reverse my question but change it up" Have you used the weapon late game?"

No, I treat punch-through as something that's ideal for a flak-type one shot weapon and pointed out how drastically the Vaykor drops in damage when you use it. I would gladly trade single target DPS for AoE DPS. The same concept is used with Primed Reach and Firestorm.

What's "late game"?

[Feallike]

Uhmmm the guy above me just ninjaed me super hard on my post sooo.

 

Sancti Tigris is better for oneshoting and self buffs (E.I Mirage) Though Vakyor Hek is a better overall weapon and is much more stable. AKA Use Sancti Tigris for damage, use Vakyor Hek for CC and usability. Though their DPS/Damage is so close that I would just use whatever you like more.

[Inugami8]

There is not much to argue. Vaykor Hek is the best shotgun right now. The Sancti Tigris only has 2 shots and you have to reload a lot, Strun has that slow reload mechanism, Sobek has status but the damage is not that high because of the pellet count, and Boar prime is actually kinda good (I tested it not long ago in the simulacrum against a max level corrupted heavy gunner eximus, it dies quite fast with corrosive) but still Vaykor Hek wins.