Are you happy with Volt's planned Overload rework?

[Inmemoratus]

1 hour ago, DrBorris said:

But... what if Volt did not have to follow the wrongs? I agree with your point about overextended and such, but two wrongs don't make a right.

Like I said, I don't think CC is really a problem inherently. It becomes a problem when you're able to make builds that literally stop all gameplay.

I do not believe the new overload will do that. Keep in mind it travels along the ground to reach enemies so it might not reliably hit every enemy in a radius like traditional CC skills. But in return it also has the potential too do a ton of stacking area damage to tightly packed groups, kinda like the current Overload but a lot better.

So I don't see adding decent CC as "following the wrongs", as you put it. Nothing new they add will reach the level of Mirage's blind. The state of the game is basically either you choose to handicap yourself by not having Mirage in your squad and you actually get gameplay, or you have a Mirage. Adding a new CC skill that's decent but balanced isn't going to change anything. It's still the same situation where either you choose to use a cheat code (Mirage) or not use a cheat code.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Inmemoratus

[DrBorris]

6 minutes ago, Inmemoratus said:

Like I said, I don't think CC is really a problem inherently. It becomes a problem when you're able to make builds that literally stop all gameplay.

I do not believe the new overload will do that. Keep in mind it travels along the ground to reach enemies so it might not reliably hit every enemy in a radius like traditional CC skills. But in return it also has the potential too do a ton of stacking area damage to tightly packed groups, kinda like the current Overload but a lot better.

So I don't see adding decent CC as "following the wrongs", as you put it. Nothing new they add will reach the level of Mirage's blind. The state of the game is basically either you choose to handicap yourself by not having Mirage in your squad and you actually get gameplay, or you have a Mirage. Adding a new CC skill that's decent but balanced isn't going to change anything. It's still the same situation where either you choose to use a cheat code (Mirage) or not use a cheat code.

But could something else be better. It is not like Volt is without CC as it is, do we need another frame that has a nuke type CC (+damage, except that the damage won't matter in late game)? I am not saying that what he is being given is bad, it just seems effectively boring. Frost, Hydroid, Nyx, and Booben are already pretty dedicated CC frames, a change like the one presented to us would put Volt into that CC class (I know other frames CC, but these frames seem made to CC). I dunno, the possibility of "an alternative to gun play" intrigues me.

[Inmemoratus]

41 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

But could something else be better. It is not like Volt is without CC as it is, do we need another frame that has a nuke type CC (+damage, except that the damage won't matter in late game)? I am not saying that what he is being given is bad, it just seems effectively boring. Frost, Hydroid, Nyx, and Booben are already pretty dedicated CC frames, a change like the one presented to us would put Volt into that CC class (I know other frames CC, but these frames seem made to CC). I dunno, the possibility of "an alternative to gun play" intrigues me.

I like it because it's a better version of one of the things Overload already does, which is stacking AoE damage that center on each enemy. I already liked the concept because it can scale by how many enemies are close to each other. That's a concept I didn't want to lose on Volt, I wanted to see it improved. I think they did exactly that.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

2 hours ago, Inmemoratus said:

I like it because it's a better version of one of the things Overload already does, which is stacking AoE damage that center on each enemy. I already liked the concept because it can scale by how many enemies are close to each other. That's a concept I didn't want to lose on Volt, I wanted to see it improved. I think they did exactly that.

I'll give them credit for the concept.  Now take the next step and synergize his kit by letting him cast his 1,3,4 while running when speed is active (unique passive) and you have perfection.

[Ohmlink]

Not really, the current rework only touched Overload and didn't really attempt to fix any of the other issues Volt has.

I'll wait til we see more before I call it a complete failure though.

[Brasten]

3 minutes ago, Ohmlink said:

Not really, the current rework only touched Overload and didn't really attempt to fix any of the other issues Volt has.

I'll wait til we see more before I call it a complete failure though.

Volt really doesn't have many other issues. We don't know yet how Shock will interact with Electric Shield (as was hinted at), but the change in Overload is enough to push Volt into being End Game viable. A method of Hard CC has been historically better than big damage powers as enemy level scales up. Although it would be nice to see the non-prime frame get an armor boost. Leaving it at 15 is just goofy.

Shock is fairly fine as is, since it can be fired weapon reloading. The only thing it would need would be a way to increase its duration beyond the base 2 second Elec Proc.

Speed is fine. Once DE got rid of it impacting the FoV of team mates. A small Quality of Life change would be letting it be cast during melee swing animations.

Electric Shield has been fine. While some people want a personal moving shield,  its fine for Volt to have a deployable cover. It gives Volt utility, Which is great since he's always been a Utility frame in function, despite the lie that his description has been since Closed Beta. (High-damage alternative to gun-play in a Drahk's eye)

Overload was Volt's biggest hangup. His Ult just did not keep up with new tiles (which were hit and miss on lights), and its Nukeyness was nerfed a long time back (not even accounting for the lack of environmental boosts on more modern tiles).

Volt synergizes around his weapons. Speed and Electric Shield buff Melee and Ranged fighting respectively, and does so for the Team and not just Volt. The only thing keeping my Volt out of Raids and Sorties generally, was the lack of a way to deal with (lock down) massed high-level cannon fodder. The damage from Overload wasn't enough, especially after the first environmental burst (if there was one). So it feel to Gun (ES) and Sword (Speed) play, but with no CC real fallback other more modern frames have.

If there was one thing not mentioned in the rework that needed to be, it was changing Volt's base description. It was maybe true for a month at best before Overload got nerfed... years ago. 1/2 of his kit is about buffing and supporting gun/sword play.

[Aquasurge]

2 hours ago, Ohmlink said:

I'll wait til we see more before I call it a complete failure though.

same here

[(XBOX)newepicnaute]

Okay just saying, can his little butt cape flap, I know that sounded immature and weird but as the volt fanboy I am, with him as my main, I really want that thing to have physics, and also to fix the problem some people are having, remember they said that overload is using nav mesh not the way it is now, which means they'll probably redo the animation(wink wink DE)

[Ohmlink]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)newepicnaute said:

Okay just saying, can his little butt cape flap, I know that sounded immature and weird but as the volt fanboy I am, with him as my main, I really want that thing to have physics, and also to fix the problem some people are having, remember they said that overload is using nav mesh not the way it is now, which means they'll probably redo the animation(wink wink DE)

His cloth skirt thing would require a remake of the warframes model, for some reason they didn't do that for the prime, I believe Geoff said something about that in one of the dev streams.

[Aquasurge]

4 hours ago, (XB1)newepicnaute said:

Okay just saying, can his little butt cape flap, I know that sounded immature and weird but as the volt fanboy I am, with him as my main, I really want that thing to have physics, and also to fix the problem some people are having, remember they said that overload is using nav mesh not the way it is now, which means they'll probably redo the animation(wink wink DE)

lightning from above!!!!!!

[PrVonTuckIII]

It's cool. I was hoping for a new ability completely, but I'm happy with this. Scales nicely, and Capacitance should be useful now.

[Wolfnrun]

17 hours ago, Ohmlink said:

Not really, the current rework only touched Overload and didn't really attempt to fix any of the other issues Volt has.

I'll wait til we see more before I call it a complete failure though.

I think that's only fair but we shall see =-) 

[Wolfnrun]

14 hours ago, (XB1)newepicnaute said:

Okay just saying, can his little butt cape flap, I know that sounded immature and weird but as the volt fanboy I am, with him as my main, I really want that thing to have physics, and also to fix the problem some people are having, remember they said that overload is using nav mesh not the way it is now, which means they'll probably redo the animation(wink wink DE)

That sounds so silly! but that could work out one way or another 

[Ohmlink]

17 hours ago, Brasten said:

 

His main issue beyond Overload, is simply he has no answer to armor. Electric damage kind of got screwed in damage 2.0 in having a bonus to the weakest enemies in the game and a debuff to the strongest. Unless they work some magic in the damage rework he'll still be a poor choice for any map with armored enemies.

Shock's stun scaling with duration would be the greatest change they could make to that skill. I honestly think it would be a game changer for Volt.

I would prefer a mobile option for E Shield at least, being tied to the shield is very restricting unless you are fighting high level stuff, and in that case Volt has such terrible surviability you need the shield to function.

He still needs some tweaks, but if he went live now he'd be in a better place overall.

[--RV--LadySpiderwick]

On 4/2/2016 at 1:49 AM, Burnthesteak87 said:

I'm often supporting DE and their work, mine is just an unpretentious and unbiased opinion.

In my hopinion the change to Overload is a "lazy" choice.
Nowdays what makes useful a Warframe is a mass CC to make it viable anywhere...
Because the system is flawed enough and hard to balance that spamming CC, Invisibility or Immortality is the easiest solution to give.

Sure, it's the correct answer to the actual system, but objectively this is keeping alive the basic flaw by building around and according to it.

Volt's other abilities are in no need of a real rework unlike Saryn's or even Rhino's rework. It also looks like his volt shield will be taller but perhaps that's just the animation. He didn't need a massive rework but each frame eventually needed one to make their abilities synergise and work well together.

[Skarokin]

This will just make him valkyr if he goes overload and goes all electric and deals electric damage with his electric fist and shocks with his electricity and gets speed from electricity.

[Burnthesteak87]

On 11/4/2016 at 0:07 AM, LittleArachnid said:

Volt's other abilities are in no need of a real rework unlike Saryn's or even Rhino's rework. It also looks like his volt shield will be taller but perhaps that's just the animation. He didn't need a massive rework but each frame eventually needed one to make their abilities synergise and work well together.

So, pardon me, how does it relate with my post and this topic?
The topic is about Overload's changes.

Also, extending the offtopic, you claimed that 'Volt's other abilities are in no need of a rework', but then you end up 'every warframe need a rework to make their abilities synergize'. These are 2 very contrastant phrases in the first place...
Then since Volt's problem is 'its set so much split between mobile and static actions' of course its skills would need to synergyze better.
The massive rework should be the correct answer, but it's easier working on quality of life features, keeping it cheap and moderate.

Back to the topic.
The new Overload promotes a static gameplay, hampering toward Speed's utility and making Electric Shield half useless (who's gonna shoot at you when everyone around you in a large area is stunned spraying electricity to nearby targets? -remember Saryin's Molt popping out when the Miasma's larger stun is going to apply), reinforcing the "static defensive tools" theme.

Instead than synergizyng -synchronized dancing, they're stepping on each other's feet together.

More focus on this: that would be a skill-combo logic, working together to reach a specific goal. It's a game logic bad applied -mediocre design.

Another problem addressed with an aesthetical and conservative solution instead than a surgical fix.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Burnthesteak87

[Brasten]

On 4/11/2016 at 2:56 PM, Ohmlink said:

His main issue beyond Overload, is simply he has no answer to armor. Electric damage kind of got screwed in damage 2.0 in having a bonus to the weakest enemies in the game and a debuff to the strongest. Unless they work some magic in the damage rework he'll still be a poor choice for any map with armored enemies.

If you check the damage typing on Electric, it is only weak against Alloy Armor, which is actually a very small subset of enemies, mostly bosses. Bombards, Napalms, and Corrupted Lances stand out as the biggest issues. Otherwise it is neutral to basically everything. Up to the point that Warframe power damage starts to drop off due to enemy armor and hp scaling, he actually does a fair amount of damage. The reason why Volt has been in a bad way for "end game" was because of that switch over in just base enemy scaling. They outpaced Overload's ability to do damage, which left him with that 2 second stun on Electric Procs from overload and shock, and ES just for damage avoidance. Not nearly enough. 

His armor in the base frame has been a long standing issue, which really only heavily negatively impacts his lower level play, where Warframe armor on non-valkyr actually means something. The 10% to 13% difference isn't really much in late game, but can really be felt in low to mid level play. And Volt isn't alone in this. Banshee, Nyx, Trinity, and Zephyr all have paper thin armor.

 

9 hours ago, Burnthesteak87 said:

The massive rework should be the correct answer, but it's easier working on quality of life features, keeping it cheap and moderate.

The answer from Volt veterans has been "no," he doesn't need a massive ground up rework. His core crippling flaw was his comparatively weak ultimate.

 

9 hours ago, Burnthesteak87 said:

Back to the topic.
The new Overload promotes a static gameplay, hampering toward Speed's utility and making Electric Shield half useless (who's gonna shoot at you when everyone around you in a large area is stunned spraying electricity to nearby targets? -remember Saryin's Molt popping out when the Miasma's larger stun is going to apply), reinforcing the "static defensive tools" theme.

Unless you're a secret testers on the new Volt you have about as good a read what the new Overload will do to Volts game play as the rest of us. Which from my experience since Closed Beta playing Volt as a Main, says that it will work just fine with the rest of his kit. You will need speed if you want to be a CC jack. Unless Overload itself recharges Overloaded enemies. -- Which we couldn't tell on the dev build we were shown, due to the infinite duration of that build, but it didn't look like it. And that infinite stun is not staying for the final build, that much was said on stream. -- You'll need to be quick and mobile to keep Shocking enemies and keep them CCed. For that you will need Speed. Speed's utility is the ability to re-position quickly, be it 3 meters or 30.

Overload didn't keep all the enemies locked down, watch the dev stream again. While enemies standing almost on top of the Overloaded eneimes got hit with Shock procs that wasn't a perma stun on them. This means you will still need ES strategically placed as supplemental cover, as you tend Overloaded enemies. It's going to be anything but static gameplay. At least no more static than Saryin's Spore/Molt build is currently.

Speed alone insures that Volt can choose to be offensive or defensive as the situation changes, which has been a core part of his play from close beta onward. Volt bursts between offensives and defensive/static play. Speed has also been good for moving around while scoped in on snipers and other long arms, and it lets him catch back up with the team from a more rearward position.

[--RV--LadySpiderwick]

I used the Saryn and Rhino rework as examples... also that was before I properly heard of the volt rework from the devstream. And yes the abilities do need to be synchronised otherwise they're a jumble of abilities that make no sense. But thanks for coming across as being quite rude in your reply. 

[AKKILLA]

On 4/2/2016 at 10:49 AM, Burnthesteak87 said:

I'm often supporting DE and their work, mine is just an unpretentious and unbiased opinion.

In my hopinion the change to Overload is a "lazy" choice.
Nowdays what makes useful a Warframe is a mass CC to make it viable anywhere...
Because the system is flawed enough and hard to balance that spamming CC, Invisibility or Immortality is the easiest solution to give.

Sure, it's the correct answer to the actual system, but objectively this is keeping alive the basic flaw by building around and according to it.

People read and like whats convenient to what they wish to hear but you provided a logical explanation to the bigger problem on going in Warframe and seemingly noone cared to like or notice. 

Dont worry your post wasnt in vain. I appreciate your logic

[Burnthesteak87]

On 14/4/2016 at 11:25 PM, Brasten said:

Unless you're a secret testers on the new Volt you have about as good a read what the new Overload will do to Volts game play as the rest of us. Which from my experience since Closed Beta playing Volt as a Main, says that it will work just fine with the rest of his kit. You will need speed if you want to be a CC jack. Unless Overload itself recharges Overloaded enemies. -- Which we couldn't tell on the dev build we were shown, due to the infinite duration of that build, but it didn't look like it. And that infinite stun is not staying for the final build, that much was said on stream. -- You'll need to be quick and mobile to keep Shocking enemies and keep them CCed. For that you will need Speed. Speed's utility is the ability to re-position quickly, be it 3 meters or 30.

Overload didn't keep all the enemies locked down, watch the dev stream again. While enemies standing almost on top of the Overloaded eneimes got hit with Shock procs that wasn't a perma stun on them. This means you will still need ES strategically placed as supplemental cover, as you tend Overloaded enemies. It's going to be anything but static gameplay. At least no more static than Saryin's Spore/Molt build is currently.

Speed alone insures that Volt can choose to be offensive or defensive as the situation changes, which has been a core part of his play from close beta onward. Volt bursts between offensives and defensive/static play. Speed has also been good for moving around while scoped in on snipers and other long arms, and it lets him catch back up with the team from a more rearward position.

You're right, without having the final product to personally test, everything should be taken lightly. I don't question it.

You can find a use to Speed or Overload to make them work together, but that doesn't mean they've been crafted to work together. 
That happens because we're supposedly endowed with some kind of intelligence.
This doesn't mean the system is crafted perfectly. It works the way it does because of fortuity.

I don't understand this: even so veterans claiming Volt is fine.
Sure, it's in a better place than some other Warframes, it has 3 skills working alone fine enough, but there's no logic to its skillset. There's just an arbitrary logic drawn out from the player.
I'm questioning the Warframe Skillset Design Logic, not the way people adapt to and play it.

From what we saw on that Devstream and most examples ingame I can guess where's its ending up to.

>OFFTOPIC Example.
Here's an good example. Vauban. 4 Skills. 4 Crowd Controls which have different uses, but mostly every other skill falls behind Bastille and Vortex.
Funny, it's a trapper, thematic objective hit, but most of the times you'll end up spamming 3 and 4. Gameplay fail.
>OFFTOPIC End.


PS: Apologizing with LittleArachnid, totally no intention to seem rude.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Burnthesteak87

[Brasten]

4 hours ago, Burnthesteak87 said:

I'm questioning the Warframe Skillset Design Logic, not the way people adapt to and play it.

From what we saw on that Devstream and most examples ingame I can guess where's its ending up to.

>OFFTOPIC Example.
Here's an good example. Vauban. 4 Skills. 4 Crowd Controls which have different uses, but mostly every other skill falls behind Bastille and Vortex.
Funny, it's a trapper, thematic objective hit, but most of the times you'll end up spamming 3 and 4. Gameplay fail.
>OFFTOPIC End.

Not totally off topic as it highlights your preconception of Warframe power design.

Then you're never going to be happy with Warframe power design. DE has never really built Warframe power sets to all 100% function with each other. Tesla was never a CC "trap" on Vauban, especially not at launch. It was a low damage turret. Even now its Proc chance is low. Bounce was a hybrid soft CC and mobility tool (being its primary use). Now it can be useful shield removal tool with the Magnetic proc, still needs a rework as its mobility function was overtaken by Bullet Jumps. Bastille and Vortex were the hard CC powers. 1 low damage poke, 1 soft CC and tool, 2 hard CCs. Not 4 CC skills.

Speed is Volt's mobility tool, in a kit that works in conjunction with his weapon load-out. If you stop and look at Volt's kit (currently pre-work) you actually don't see an aggressive speedster, at least not in the way one expects. Shock (pre-Status effects) was a light damage tool and now (with status) a "combat pause" button, Electric Shield is temporary cover (and damage/crit boost), Overload was a room nuke. Volt play was Speed into a room, deploy shield, drop Overload, shoot or stab (with your gun or sword) anything that survived, speed on to the next room or out of the room if things were too rough. The phrase shock trooper would not be wrongly applied.

The Volt Vets say he's fine (aside from Overload), is because that method of play (being first into a room, setting up a defensive point, and unleashing a bullet storm from it) is still viable with the way the game has evolved over three years. If anything its gotten better with adjustments in his 3 base skills. Where he's lagged has been his Ult, which stopped working as a room nuke on everything save Corpus ship tiles, and fell off fast as enemy armor/level ramped up since it didn't bypass armor. What was intilaly true, become so again. Speed into room, drop ES for cover, unleash Overload to CC and get some DoT going, finish off un-CCed enemies with gun or blade (with Shocks to pin them down).

You could replace Speed with another power, some form of CC, something that boosts melee damage maybe, but then he's not a shock trooper anymore. He doesn't have the tool he needs to be fast and reposition as combat moves. You could give him a positional teleport... if Loki didn't already have one at the time, and if Ash wasn't in the planning to have one. Plus as we've seen with Switch Teleport, unrestrained teleports tend to break the level.

What became emergent play was the use of Speed in a Melee centric setup. Taking the animation speed increase and using it to enhance the strike speed of melee attacks. Which arguably is counter to Volt's kit, with the low armor and lower health. What makes the difference is the sprint speed, which lets Volt hit and run when his shields break or are low. Again shock trooper.

=====

Anything that needs to be done to Volt after Overload gets change will be minor changes, not complete retooling of his kit. The criticism with Speed would be how it interacts with Bullet Jumping (not at the moment especially). Possible enhancement (that has been talked about for Speed from Volt players since beta), would be speeding up Reload times in addition to its melee attack boost. Something that furthers Speed's interaction with Volt's weapons, which is just as much a part of his kit as his powers.

The biggest non-mechanical change to Volt that's been 3 years over due is his description.

Quote

Volt can create and harness electrical elements. This is a high-damage Warframe perfect for players who want a potent alternative to gun-play.

The second sentence has been a lie from almost day 1 of Volt's launch, and has been getting less true every day since. Overload's "high damage" was nerfed and has been on a steady decline. Shock was never very powerful damage tool (compared to guns). Speed may be an alternative to gun-play in that it (sometimes unwisely) encourages sword-play. Electric Shield actively encourages gun-play.

A better description taking the coming rework into account would be along the lines of...

Quote

Volt has an electrifying effect on the battlefield, allowing it to create tactical advantages and enhance the potency of it's arsenal. Player's who enjoy combined arms combat will find this Warframe ideal.

 

[Burnthesteak87]

On 10/4/2016 at 11:47 PM, DrBorris said:

I am on the train that there needs to be some work done to what Warframe is about. Right now Warframe is a horde shooter where it is often more effective to not kill the horde. This... is messed up in so many ways. Am I a bit too optimistic o hope Damage 3.0 moves Warframe more towards encouraging killing enemies in late game as much as CCing them? Probably.

There is just too much CC. His 1 has CC, his 2 (with augment) has CC, and his 4 has (and apparently will have) a very similar CC to his 1. Palpatine mode could turn him into a spam god of his other abilities rather than overlapping what he already has.

Of course I don't know the best way to design a game, but I sure as hell do know that I don't want another radial damage/stun ability, because that is all it is. Sure, it has some character with the tesla thing, but it is effectively the same effect on enemies as the others.

I appreciate your logic. Respect.

A real big problem in Warframe is "Gameplay Flow Control" through Energy.

Other similar games, where you being surrounded or outnumbered by enough enemies poses a real threat, use some kind of CC, Immortality or AoeNukes to solve the problem.
There's no other way of managing an horde in this situation.

How other games introduce CC/immortality/AoeNuke is FLOW in the gameplay, a player must undertake an action and complete it, face a risk vs reward or windows of opportunity situations to have what he/she needs. Decision making, strategy, skillful performance. Failure results in death.
Accumulating energy through fight or specific actions, managing resources, keeping ammos for the right target, expending cooldowns in a wise manner.

What do we have in Warframe :
Ability Spam.
No Cooldowns, Energy and Ammos aren't a limitation, or they're influencing the gameplay flow so badly that they shows up just being annoing features (Energy Orbs after RNG, Energy Vampire spammabile, Consumables spammable, who cares about picking up ammos?).

In Warframe the player dies because he/she can't spam CC, Immortality or AoeNukes due to no Energy or Power Lock.
Guess what? People gets angry at Nullifiers and Parasitic Eximi (remember the Shock Eximi for the week they introduced them). Isn't that so much coincidential?

Yes, they're building the dam around the water flow, but not in the correct place to measure it out.

The concept was being nearly hit with Syndacate Aoes, Focus Convergence, Focus Skills, but every feature has proved being raw and unreliable.


TL:DR:
Warframe has no flow in the gameplay; Energy doesn't control the game flow. So we have a brainless CC/Immortality/AoeNuke spam.
And when people can't get Energy to spam, they get angry at Nullifiers and Energy Drain enemies.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Burnthesteak87

[Ohmlink]

On 4/14/2016 at 4:25 PM, Brasten said:

If you check the damage typing on Electric, it is only weak against Alloy Armor, which is actually a very small subset of enemies, mostly bosses. Bombards, Napalms, and Corrupted Lances stand out as the biggest issues. Otherwise it is neutral to basically everything. Up to the point that Warframe power damage starts to drop off due to enemy armor and hp scaling, he actually does a fair amount of damage. The reason why Volt has been in a bad way for "end game" was because of that switch over in just base enemy scaling. They outpaced Overload's ability to do damage, which left him with that 2 second stun on Electric Procs from overload and shock, and ES just for damage avoidance. Not nearly enough. 

His armor in the base frame has been a long standing issue, which really only heavily negatively impacts his lower level play, where Warframe armor on non-valkyr actually means something. The 10% to 13% difference isn't really much in late game, but can really be felt in low to mid level play. And Volt isn't alone in this. Banshee, Nyx, Trinity, and Zephyr all have paper thin armor.

Once Grineer hit 20 or so Lancers are replaced with Elites which do have that armor. Making it a relatively common problem at mid level. I certainly don't expect Volt to take out every enemy with a single shock, but leaving a very obvious hole in his attacks while fixing another frames same issue at the same time comes off as kinda silly.

[Aquasurge]

12 hours ago, Brasten said:

Not totally off topic as it highlights your preconception of Warframe power design.

Then you're never going to be happy with Warframe power design. DE has never really built Warframe power sets to all 100% function with each other. Tesla was never a CC "trap" on Vauban, especially not at launch. It was a low damage turret. Even now its Proc chance is low. Bounce was a hybrid soft CC and mobility tool (being its primary use). Now it can be useful shield removal tool with the Magnetic proc, still needs a rework as its mobility function was overtaken by Bullet Jumps. Bastille and Vortex were the hard CC powers. 1 low damage poke, 1 soft CC and tool, 2 hard CCs. Not 4 CC skills.

Speed is Volt's mobility tool, in a kit that works in conjunction with his weapon load-out. If you stop and look at Volt's kit (currently pre-work) you actually don't see an aggressive speedster, at least not in the way one expects. Shock (pre-Status effects) was a light damage tool and now (with status) a "combat pause" button, Electric Shield is temporary cover (and damage/crit boost), Overload was a room nuke. Volt play was Speed into a room, deploy shield, drop Overload, shoot or stab (with your gun or sword) anything that survived, speed on to the next room or out of the room if things were too rough. The phrase shock trooper would not be wrongly applied.

The Volt Vets say he's fine (aside from Overload), is because that method of play (being first into a room, setting up a defensive point, and unleashing a bullet storm from it) is still viable with the way the game has evolved over three years. If anything its gotten better with adjustments in his 3 base skills. Where he's lagged has been his Ult, which stopped working as a room nuke on everything save Corpus ship tiles, and fell off fast as enemy armor/level ramped up since it didn't bypass armor. What was intilaly true, become so again. Speed into room, drop ES for cover, unleash Overload to CC and get some DoT going, finish off un-CCed enemies with gun or blade (with Shocks to pin them down).

You could replace Speed with another power, some form of CC, something that boosts melee damage maybe, but then he's not a shock trooper anymore. He doesn't have the tool he needs to be fast and reposition as combat moves. You could give him a positional teleport... if Loki didn't already have one at the time, and if Ash wasn't in the planning to have one. Plus as we've seen with Switch Teleport, unrestrained teleports tend to break the level.

What became emergent play was the use of Speed in a Melee centric setup. Taking the animation speed increase and using it to enhance the strike speed of melee attacks. Which arguably is counter to Volt's kit, with the low armor and lower health. What makes the difference is the sprint speed, which lets Volt hit and run when his shields break or are low. Again shock trooper.

=====

Anything that needs to be done to Volt after Overload gets change will be minor changes, not complete retooling of his kit. The criticism with Speed would be how it interacts with Bullet Jumping (not at the moment especially). Possible enhancement (that has been talked about for Speed from Volt players since beta), would be speeding up Reload times in addition to its melee attack boost. Something that furthers Speed's interaction with Volt's weapons, which is just as much a part of his kit as his powers.

The biggest non-mechanical change to Volt that's been 3 years over due is his description.

The second sentence has been a lie from almost day 1 of Volt's launch, and has been getting less true every day since. Overload's "high damage" was nerfed and has been on a steady decline. Shock was never very powerful damage tool (compared to guns). Speed may be an alternative to gun-play in that it (sometimes unwisely) encourages sword-play. Electric Shield actively encourages gun-play.

A better description taking the coming rework into account would be along the lines of...

 

well said, well said.