Low MR in Sorties

[Soulden]

8 minutes ago, Leavith said:

we need a better afk system....

and you said MR20 afk in public you mean matches or Sorti

cause here in one end we got someone who can help but chooses not to help ...on the other end we got someone who cannot help and choose not to help

the end result is the same but the fact being I would prefer someone I can try convince to help and won't be picking him up  of the ground so often in comparison to someone that even trying to get his help would be pointless since it would be still no change same scenario.

But that is a problem of people Afk in public game.

Right now let say we lock sorti with mastery rank....now look we can cross of the list of potential thing that will hold the team back or take the spot of a potential good player.

Yeah we have the same amount of chance of getting someone who is gonna afk but getting someone who is gonna afk and getting someone who cannot do anything is the same thing.But just two different group.

One can be fix with setting a proper Afk punishment system the other can be fixed with setting up a lock. While they may be in the same category as people who you carry in a mission the difference is that you handle and can solve this problem differently ...and the solution to one problem will not solve the other.so they need their own solution.

The thing is, for every MR20 i have encountered with rank 1 weapons on sortie and unwilling to help, there is probably hundreds trying to teach low MRs how to get better.

If we use personal experiences to restrict gameplay unto others, might as well learn to solo Sorties.

1. You will run out of MR20s to do sorties with. After all, once MR21, who would want a MR20 on their team?

2. All those low MRs will feel they have too high of a gate to join any challenging content. There goes any possible MR20s you would be glad to have on your team due to number 1.

3. Anyone MR 8+ will follow your mindset and start asking for restrictions on the next tenno. (Aren't you glad those restrictions were not forced unto us before Sorties existed?)

4.Draco, seriously, it's been mentioned so many times ain't even funny.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Souldend78

[Leavith]

16 minutes ago, Souldend78 said:

The thing is, for every MR20 i have encountered with rank 1 weapons on sortie and unwilling to help, there is probably hundreds trying to teach low MRs how to get better.

If we use personal experiences to restrict gameplay unto others, might as well learn to solo Sorties.

1. You will run out of MR20s to do sorties with. After all, once MR21, who would want a MR20 on their team?

2. All those low MRs will feel they have too high of a gate to join any challenging content. There goes any possible MR20s you would be glad to have on your team due to number 1.

3. Anyone MR 8+ will follow your mindset and start asking for restrictions on the next tenno.

4.Draco, seriously, it's been mentioned so many times ain't even funny.

Addressing your point sorti is intended to be late game and hard content not meant for player of warframe who lack experience .Because we have no decent way to measure this the OP of the thread suggested we use Mastery rank and to be more exact mastery rank 8.Why,mastery rank since so far mastery rank 10+ means nothing as at this point people pretty much have reach the point were they acquire they prefer weapon. But before mastery rank 10 it actually measure the amount of content people have played and experience with weapons.This is why Mastery rank 8 and 6 is even suggested.

So now to address your 1-4 points

1.I am not saying you need a Mastery rank 20 to do sorti or sayin you have to be since you only need a player that has experience/weapons to use that experience/and modding capabilities

And yeah their is no difference between mastery 20 and mastery rank 21 apart from more weapons master which means nothing at this point.

2.They would not feel this way because they are locking content called sorti that is intended for higher experience and veteran players---Do not mistake this for me saying that is intended for higher mastery rank player.

3.Mastery rank 8+ will not ask for restriction because they understand how little that matter right now at this points...this is not something that will keep on growing you do understand that right,and before you ask me how I know this because so far everyone know that mastery rank is a joke.

4.Draco is mention many times because player go their to mastery rank 30 their weapons by well farming exp in large amount without having to use their weapons. Which teaches an already bad precedent

And let me add you a 5th point you can bring 1 weapon that is mastery rank 30....right now this is what we have for existing requirements.

only level 30 Warframes and players with Mastery Rank of 4 and above can participate in Sortie missions.

yeah only need mastery rank 4+ and level 30 warframe not even weapons so most people at this points aren't even ready for any of this.

 

Edited April 3, 2016 by Leavith

[Soulden]

5 minutes ago, Leavith said:

and before you ask me how I know this because so far everyone know that mastery rank is a joke.

And that sums it up. 

[SeaUrchins]

3 hours ago, DakotaStorm said:

Therefore my mastery gain is slow, how darebyou elitests suggest locking people out of content, if someone joins your mission that can't handle it and is dying every 30 seconds, then simply stop reviving them bit don't you dare suggest blocking them from at least experiencing the missions. 

Yea, just grind the reward for them since afk penalty does not apply to sortie rewards, how dare those elitists suggest locking rewards from useless low rank scrubs :]

If sorties are meant to be "endgame", then what do low MRs have to do in them?

Edited April 3, 2016 by SeaUrchins

[DakotaStorm]

Mastery locking is pointless, because *coughDracocough*

And no, I don't draco, I rank my stuff the old fashioned way.

0 - 5 earth

5 - 10 mars

10 - 30 higher level plants and void.

As long as there are ways to power level. Mastery locking content is pointless. 

[SeaUrchins]

24 minutes ago, DakotaStorm said:

Mastery locking is pointless, because *coughDracocough*

Your logic is flawed, as you claim it is pointless locking sorties from low MRs because higher MRs can run them.

[(XBOX)SlohLane]

15 hours ago, Momaw said:

Mmm.   On the one hand I do think some kind of yardstick needs to be employed to keep people out of sortie if they quite simply cannot handle it and will just be a burden to team.

However I don't think mastery rank is the yardstick to use.  One, because mastery rank is a joke ever since Draco became the meta for affinity grinding.  And two, because the things that actually make you powerful as a player (fully ranked mods and play experience) aren't factored into mastery rank score at all.

I agree with this here. 

I would like too add that you should consider it helping them instead of carrying them, you will feel much more rewarded at the end.

 

my opinion on what Warframe could do too fix this is simple allow us to see each other's conclave numbers again..

 

this was a really simple way too gauge how powerful someone was. So instead of asking for ranks you would simple call out for a conclave limit.

 

[Rakosta_Kai]

2 hours ago, H3addy said:

MR6 or even 8 would be good. It's not hard to get there even for ppl who dont play that often. I don't think sorties should be 'almost' insta-accesible, like it is now. I met some good low MR Tenno, but the number of unprepared ones is surely higher.

Dont think of this as a locking rewards or experience away from ppl, but rather something you have to work, grind or even Draco for. To deserve it.

Tenno who dont wanna rank mastery up, there is always trading channel or clanmates.

Just my opinion on this :)

...Maybe there should be 2 (or 3) versions of the sorties.

The current version

A milder version for lower level players

 

[Hawklaser]

It's likely already been said, but MR really means nothing other than how many things one has ground xp on, and xp on equipment is nothing compared to the impact good mods have.

Its just as likely to end up carrying someone that is MR 30 as it is one that is MR 5. The fun that speed grinding introduces to games. There really is no way to tell how good or well equipped a player is until actually start playing with them.

[(PSN)Ochikomu-]

1 hour ago, Hawklaser said:

It's likely already been said, but MR really means nothing other than how many things one has ground xp on, and xp on equipment is nothing compared to the impact good mods have.

Its just as likely to end up carrying someone that is MR 30 as it is one that is MR 5. The fun that speed grinding introduces to games. There really is no way to tell how good or well equipped a player is until actually start playing with them.

I agree with your statement. I don't see the purpose of Mastery in this game. In my opinion,  a player should be judged on knowledge and experience, not a number. Anyone can blitz on Draco for exp and be at least MR15 within a month or so. The only benefit I see of Mastery is the load out slots that can be created.

[Leavith]

We could lock it behind the amount of stars the Loudout has...I mean every time we forma our weapons gains a star....and that would be a god reading if  player is good or something along those lines.

[(PSN)horridhal]

10 hours ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

1. it wouldn't invalidate my argument in the slightest. I didn't shift it in the slightest. In the last sortie I did, the 3rd mission was a defense mission. We have been talking about Sorties from the very start.  Try to keep up.

2. It has a ton of bearing on the discussion at hand. You are the one that basically accused me of equating performance with damage.  I just explained how that wasn't the case. You then complained about worrying about people going down, and I explained how it was my job to make sure that didn't happen. And now, you are trying to put words in my mouth.

So far, your only "arguments" have been ad hominem and strawman fallacies.  Moving on.

3. All those also take up a ton of energy and a ton of fusion cores.  A low MR player is less likely to have those maxed out.

4. You are wrong and have done nothing to support that claim logically.  Also, Sorties were promoted as content for the high level, min-max-minded, end game players. There is no reason to make it accessible to newbies, that have plenty of other stuff they should not only be focusing on, but are also likely just to be a drain on the team.

 

1.  It would, wholly.  Acknowledging that skill can trump equipment would make this entire topic pointless.  You also did try and shift the argument from all mission types in sorties to defense, specifically, to once again create an extreme to bolster a failing argument.

2.  No, it doesn't.  What you run makes absolutely no difference to me since you are completely ignoring that any new player can run Trinity and provide the exact same support.  In your mind, going wholly from your comments thus far, when a low MR player provides support, you are carrying them but when you do it you are carrying the team.  It is a ridiculous double standard you are trying to validate. 

So far your only arguments have wholly disregarded any possible contribution that isn't damage which, as I've stated prior to this, is a very small portion of the game.

3.  The only one that takes a large number, of the ones I listed, is Serration which is perfectly usable at rank 7-8.  Neither of which requires a lot of cores.  Again, stop trying to take things to an extreme in order to validate your argument.

4.  

10 hours ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

 With such a lock you would also be locking every piece of content sorties provide, including Nezha, behind either a paywall or a random MR requirement solely because you can't be bothered to field your own group or solo the mission.  Such restrictions are unnecessary and prohibitive when the option exists for you to simply not run the mission in a public setting with those low MR players you so disdain.

Nothing about that comment was wrong.  Again, if you don't want to run with low MR players, avoid public play.  You, obviously are going to pretend that option doesn't exist, though, as evidenced by your previous response.

Edited April 3, 2016 by (PS4)horridhal

[Raztan]

I agree that MR means nothing.  But that is not true.  From my ingame experience I have learned this simple fact, the higher the MR is equals more likelyhood of powercreep elitist player with a very rude manner, you can even see this mirrored here if you just take your time and read all this post instead of just skipping to the end.

I know it sounds rude and I wish it wasnt so, but there it is.

The game has options and you should use it to suit your playstyle and find your fun instead of trying to limit or enforce changes onto other people and thus limiting their fun.

To me a Veteran is a gold nugget that doles out wisdom and shares knowledge while the Elitist is just a dot on the minimap.

The problem is not the game or its system, the problem is people beeing people.  The problem is not just rooted in Warframe but can be found in any online game that has some kinda competitive ranking system no matter how silly or innocent it may be.

So why dont everyone just hug it out and give it a rest since chances of solving this matter in this post are just as high as united earth under one banner and one language.

[Randomeer]

MR is not a very good indicator of player skill - sure, the first few tend to match it closely but after 4-5 it goes more into 'Draco' indicator rather than actual skill. Personally started doing sorties since around MR5-6 and while I didn't carry the team I didn't do too bad either. Now I speedrun Spy sorties in like 5 minutes, solo or not.

Conclave rating could be a better indicator but requires rebalance of conclave rating of all mods and even then it may make bad judgements of what is good enough (I can bring Frost without a reactor or any Forma to Mobile Defense and Excavation sorties and do perfectly fine because globes are more than good enough anyway)

I do prefer the idea of locking behind some kind of a test. Personally even now Second Dream would make a perfectly fine prerequisite, it contains some 'hard' missions like Uranus Spy with 3 vault requirement and fights against powerful enemies. The Focus it unlocks also helps with beating sorties. If a player can complete The Second Dream (especially solo) then they are probably good enough for the majority of sortie missions.

[-Zr-Scroll]

7 hours ago, sh00chu said:

Sorties and Raids should be locked behind completing the star chart. Every single node. It may sound a bit harsh. but this would ensure that a player of any MR would be able to participate, regardless of how many pieces of gear they've acquired. It would also ensure that the person had experienced virtually every type of content the game has to offer, and as a side-effect, would likely have all of the mods needed to properly outfit their chosen loadout. In addition to that, I think that being taxied should be gotten rid of completely. All of this would serve to create an actual sense of progression and accomplishment as well as incentivizing actually playing the game. Just my 2 cents.

I only logged in to upvote this and give attention to it. This is by far the most intelligent and in-depth solution this thread has yet. The MR/CR debate has been doing self-circling for the last 5 pages or so and it leads to nothing.

[KIREEK]

I have no requirement on the sortie content really, but if i had one it would be completing the start chart before sorties become available.

Also the removal of taxis, no one can taxi you to the node, either you have it unlocked or you can't do it.

Edited April 4, 2016 by KIREEKPSO

[.Jet.]

20 hours ago, (PS4)Gangalito said:

I do sorties every day.  I almost always PUG them as most of my friends don't do them since they aren't worth much on console.  One thing I see over and over is the constant presence of low MR.  I'm talking about MR 5 or lower.  I'm not trying to hate my fellow Tenno.  I get it, we all wanna get the awesome loots.

The problem however is that I'm am tired of carrying these low MR individuals, and they are in just about every sortie mission I play.  It's basically the equivalent of a level 10 character in WoW jumping in to an end game raid.  An MR 5 or lower trying to kill or survive level 80+ enemies is ridiculous.  The power levels are completely unbalanced.  You can't even use syndicate weapons until MR12, but you can participate in one of the most challenging ("challenging") parts of warframe.  IMO MR8 should be the absolute lowest possible allowed.  This seems to be where, even though they'll still struggle, people are able to contribute in a meaningful way without dying repeatedly.

I guess I just don't understand the reasoning behind this and frankly, as already stated, I'm tired of carrying them as they either sit in a corner and do nothing, or die over and over forcing me to ignore them or res them 10+ times in a mission.  I understand wanting new players to experience content, but high MR's are being burdened with what is just poor progression scaling.

 

PS. No lowbie hate, just love, but we all gotta work towards something.

Watch this and then tell me I should be locked out from sorties because of my MR 4.

 

[SeaUrchins]

7 minutes ago, .Jet. said:

Watch this and then tell me I should be locked out from sorties because of my MR 4

LOL, you actually had to fight the boss :D

[.Jet.]

Just now, SeaUrchins said:

LOL, you actually had to fight the boss :D

It was still far from difficult.

[MagPrime]

@.Jet. If all Mr4 players had your skill, then this topic would have never come up.  The issue are the MR4's that think they are as good as you but are actually a burden to their team.

Still think MR 4 lock on private/solo lobbies and MR8-10 on public tbh

[Guest]

I see the pain for both sides, and I know you are just trying to get in a public game, meet some people and maybe carry one or two newer players with somewhat efforts.

but the problem is that you really can't judge a player for their MR, and yes I get your pain, they are dying every 10 secs. It's suicide to help them, but an Ahole to leave them to dead. 

I really don't have a solution for you, I'm sorry.

But if I were in your position, I will ask myself what am I doing wrong that needs to be fix or perform better so those newbies wouldn't die. Or is there a frame I could help them to ignore the level gap between them, and encourage them to fight for themselves, and I'll be the insurance to make sure they can get out of this alive. 

But if you are just negative about things that happens to you, go with this guy's comment.

21 hours ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

 

These two go hand in hand.  If you aren't expecting to be able to carry a mission, or don't feel like carrying it, don't PuG it. 

Edit : Additionally, as others have pointed out since, MR isn't indicative of ability.

[fatpig84]

18 hours ago, ChronoEclipse said:

It’s really not a fair indicator. I know someone who’s MR21, mastered all content (everything from raids to the obstacle course), and burnt out on the game who still hasn’t maxed Serration and feels no need to.

That is why IMO I can feel why he is burnt out, he needs more endless goals.
I be upfront that I haven't maxed a lot of primed or rare mods yet. And DE will release those Primed mods faster than people who farm Triton 24/07 (I don't).  

But this is what I do to keep myself occupied as it is a long term stretch goal.
And I get rewarded in a way or another. In fact I am planning to max the Primed Archwing damage mod next (it is now R8) because I like AW enough to invest in that.

I have pretty much everything except War (because stalker has gone MIA for 2 months), Saryn Prime, Nikana Prime and Spira prime. I plan to farm them only AFTER their Prime release is over. So I have more content to do.

But in the mean time, I just keep maxing those Primed Mods.
It might look like a fruitless chase for some, but to me, it's still a goal to keep playing.

Edited April 4, 2016 by fatpig84

[LemonEnterprise]

9 hours ago, Noamuth said:

@.Jet. If all Mr4 players had your skill, then this topic would have never come up.  The issue are the MR4's that think they are as good as you but are actually a burden to their team.

Still think MR 4 lock on private/solo lobbies and MR8-10 on public tbh

Wow, different mr should have different lobbies, then where does the so call lets all help each other community at, lets all be honest here its almost unlikely that someone that is mr 21 can get this far without draco, so my question is how many times did you do draco to get yourself to this position to say mr4 is a burden, i mean hell half of the mr4 now are mostly smurfs and have all maxed up prime stuff in their loadout. A way to solve this should to implant something like what WOW dungeon did, everyone goes to dungeon searcher and press search for players, if you are new you press the (i am new and i need help with this dungeon button) and if you are experienced you can press the(i am experienced and i can carry this party) this actually proves to be really effective, i was helped by veterans and they showed me my mistake that way everyone gets a win win. So yeah no hate or anything, and sorry if i offended the person i qouted.

[MagPrime]

19 minutes ago, LemonEnterprise said:

Wow, different mr should have different lobbies, then where does the so call lets all help each other community at, lets all be honest here its almost unlikely that someone that is mr 21 can get this far without draco, so my question is how many times did you do draco to get yourself to this position to say mr4 is a burden, i mean hell half of the mr4 now are mostly smurfs and have all maxed up prime stuff in their loadout. A way to solve this should to implant something like what WOW dungeon did, everyone goes to dungeon searcher and press search for players, if you are new you press the (i am new and i need help with this dungeon button) and if you are experienced you can press the(i am experienced and i can carry this party) this actually proves to be really effective, i was helped by veterans and they showed me my mistake that way everyone gets a win win. So yeah no hate or anything, and sorry if i offended the person i qouted.

Actually, I don't do Draco and got to MR 19 by playing the game.  Look me up in game and check out my profile before you start making strange accusations.

As to the helpful community bit, did you not see where I said private lobbies should still be MR 4? That means that any vet Can make a team and invite up to three new players and carry them through.

And yes, there are times a low MR player is a burden to the rest of the team, specifically when they continue to go down and require revives, putting the person doing the revive in danger of going down as well. Or when they simply can't contribute to the team because they don't have a frame or weapon that's nodded or ranked enough to do anything, resulting in them just hiding. This is based off of personal experience.

 

Edited April 4, 2016 by Noamuth
Screw you auto correct.

[LemonEnterprise]

21 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

Actually, I don't do Draco and got to MR 19 by playing the game.  Look me up in game and check out my profile before you start making strange accusations.

As to the helpful community bit, did you not see where I said private lobbies should still be MR 4? That means that any vet Can make a team and invite up to three new players and carry them through.

And yes, there are times a low MR player is a burden to the rest of the team, specifically when they continue to go down and require revives, putting the person doing the revive in danger of going down as well. Or when they simply can't contribute to the team because they don't have a frame or weapon that's nodded or ranked enough to do anything, resulting in them just hiding. This is based off of personal experience.

 

I wanna talk about how the strange accusations that i am making, quoting from my previous post ' someone that is mr 21'. And yes i was wrong about the Mr4 private lobbies, i dont get that part but you might be right.

 

21 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

And yes, there are times a low MR player is a burden to the rest of the team, specifically when they continue to go down and require revives, putting the person doing the revive in danger of going down as well. Or when they simply can't contribute to the team because they don't have a frame or weapon that's nodded or ranked enough to do anything, resulting in them just hiding. This is based off of personal experience.

 

10 hours ago, Noamuth said:

The issue are the MR4's that think they are as good as you but are actually a burden to their team.

Thats what chroma, rhino, valkyr are for, they are tanks and like half of all the warframes avaible cc's are for, they can use their cc to pick up a team mate when they are down. Not saying that they are not a burden, but i want to correct what you said from your previous post, 'MR4's think they are as good as you' that is just plain wrong unless most of the MR4 you meet are jerks. I respect your idea, of private lobbies and that's all i have to say :)

 

Edited April 4, 2016 by LemonEnterprise