Cells - This Is Warframes Endgame

[Manly_McManface]

Thanks very much for the feedback. I consider the mission conditions to be a little placeholder-y. The key of the idea is the mechanic itself.

 

One key element with the Dossiers is that once you acquire one for a specific Cell you can build it over and over again. They do have be built from a BP, but the BP isn't consumed when built. The build time/cost exists to add an element of risk (if you fail, you've wasted time/credits).

 

But the actual dossier BP is yours forever, so you can just build/run again. I think that would make it a bit easier to plan which Cells you want to run.

 

It would be kind of like if you could run T3 void def once every day for a cost of 15k credits. Less annoying than farming void keys, but still a bit of RNG and grind involved.

 

Any thoughts on this?

 

Still a little skeptic, but yes, a lot better than void keys! 

[Eisvogel]

I see you've some valid points here but I also feel they are not insurmountable.  Firstly we know they're adding story missions which is great!  The lore I imagined for Cells would be more historical rather than current, like delving into the lotus's archives.  Regarding repeat rewards discouraging replays well that IS true, but I guess you could add resource/loot pools for future runs after initial completion. 

 

As for it being just more missions, as I said that's literally all this game is.  The only difference is that Cells are consecutive missions that are part of an arc instead of each mission being a self contained completely independent universe.  Of course with that said, wouldn't it be nice if beating missions did things, like some kind of meta game was introduced....

 

 

**EDIT: Derp! Forgot to mention about weapon restrictions - I actually am OK with this because it gives us reasons to use things which aren't kunai -_-

 

That's a lie, since the proposal here is to restrict LEVEL, not weapons.... and nightmare mode is supposed to include that, so.....

 

Anyhow, As i said in a post or two after that one.... i am all in for having this idea implemented if they can squeeze an additional.... but if we have to choose between this or true content, in particular the endgame and challenge this game is lacking...... we need the late one...... and leave this nice idea as an extra feature to include whenever there's time to do it.

[Relkin]

That's a lie, since the proposal here is to restrict LEVEL, not weapons.... and nightmare mode is supposed to include that, so.....

 

Anyhow, As i said in a post or two after that one.... i am all in for having this idea implemented if they can squeeze an additional.... but if we have to choose between this or true content, in particular the endgame and challenge this game is lacking...... we need the late one...... and leave this nice idea as an extra feature to include whenever there's time to do it.

Eh try and not be so douchey in your responses in the future k?  I just reread the OP and it seems weapon restrictions are no longer a part of this.  I've been following cells since this was posted and the OP has changed quite a bit since that time w/e ,,l,,

 

Anyways you, like many people complain about content but offer zero solutions.  Unless you have a solution I'm not particularly interested in your cheese and whine.  We've not seen anything better than this to date.  

[notionphil]

...but if we have to choose between this or true content, in particular the endgame and challenge this game is lacking...... we need the late one...... and leave this nice idea as an extra feature to include whenever there's time to do it.

 

Hi Eisvogel,

 

Thanks again for your feedback.

 

Can you explain what True Content is? And what Endgame would be?

[Relkin]

Hi Eisvogel,

 

Thanks again for your feedback.

 

Can you explain what True Content is? And what Endgame would be?

God, I don't think I could ever be as polite as you lol

[notionphil]

 just reread the OP and it seems weapon restrictions are no longer a part of this.  I've been following cells since this was posted and the OP has changed quite a bit since that time w/e ,,l,,

 

 

 

Weapons restrictions would certainly be a part of this....maybe I need to go through the OP and make it more clear :P

 

However they would be rather rare, usually for the backstory of a specific weapon. EG: you might be restricted to the Bratton for a Cell that has the Bratton Prime BP as a reward.

[notionphil]

God, I don't think I could ever be as polite as you lol

 

Sometimes the most staunch critics of an idea have the best suggestions to improve it!

[Relkin]

Weapons restrictions would certainly be a part of this....maybe I need to go through the OP and make it more clear :P

 

However they would be rather rare, usually for the backstory of a specific weapon. EG: you might be restricted to the Bratton for a Cell that has the Bratton Prime BP as a reward.

Yeah that was one of the cooler things I thought, like we could get lore behind the weapons and how they fit into Tenno/Orokin society while learning to use them skillfully. 

[Eisvogel]

snip

 

Yeah i noticed after that, that you were in fact OP.... nice to see non-troll OPs keeping in touch with their threads after so long =D

 

About the lore, i don't keep bringing it up.... i just answer to your and others reply mentioning how an asset it is to include it in the Cells.... and while it's nice, with all that's already on the game... it'd be kinda lame to include the much needed lore in content that would have to wait this much (since new-mid players wouldn't be ready nor equipped to do this).

I never mentioned how since i posted some ideas and many others have posted cool ideas in the forums to do so, and as i said, i didn't want to derail or disrespect your thread.... but since you ask and tell me it's pointless not to.... this is how i would start reusing the actual things that are already made (and to me, they lack meaning and/or any sense of story progress):

 

How to include it? There are many ways.... for example, a simple way to do it... is to give more meaning to the already assembled "dots" (aka: missions :P). As it is now, we just do them once to unlock the paths and bye bye (only replaying farming spots and defense missions). Instead, they could have more meaning and each planet could have it's own conclusion and story as to why are we going there... why are we doing each "dot" and as we progress completing missions (which can effectively be seen as the quests you mention, that's how it works in any game like WF that's not strictly and MMORPG like Vindictus, etc) we can gain lore from the faction on the planet and the tasks that we were supposed to accomplish in each mission. And it could also carry meaning through the planets, since there are paths and all, they could reference things contained in previous missions and all. And, an optional treat to that, would be that the events could have planet related additional lore, depending on what happens and where it happens.

 

About the Nova thing....

At no point i said i preferred to mindlessly grind raptor X times instead of the Cell approach.... if i have to choose between the two, i would go with the Cell approach any day of the week and twice on Sunday. What i said, is that if the devs need to choose between developing this or actual content and the endgame and challenge the game is lacking (you know... the feeling of glory after beating the Massive Polar Bear in Vindictus.... when you and your friends are sweating.... hp is at nominal levels..... and you jump because you friggin made it? That's what i want in waframe.... instead of being half-asleep shooting the enemies and bosses enough bullets until they die...... that's the problem with stat based "difficulty").... i'd have to say that Cells would have to wait. If they can do both with no time troubles, then by all means... do this really neat idea as well, but that's usually not the case when developing games.... even more with the small team they have for WF.

There's also an additional problem with this approach for obtaining Frames and such things.... since unless you expect DE to take out frames bought from the Market, people could just bypass all this if they bought them for plat and they would miss out the story and lore, getting the reward without doing it. But that's just a minor thing to think about....

 

I hope i addressed all the points you mentioned, my apologies if i overlooked any.

 

Bottom line is, we both agree the game needs to step up.... since as it is now, it lacks meaning, lore and challenge. We also agree that your idea would be really nice to have if possible.

The only thing i am saying, it's that it would take quite some time to implement.... and if they would use that time to rework the actual game content, adding lore and real challenge and endgame content.... i'd rather they do that first.

[Eisvogel]

God, I don't think I could ever be as polite as you lol

 

you should try....

 

Lol i can hardly keep up with so many replies xD

 

 

 

Eh try and not be so douchey in your responses in the future k?  I just reread the OP and it seems weapon restrictions are no longer a part of this.  I've been following cells since this was posted and the OP has changed quite a bit since that time w/e ,,l,,

 

Anyways you, like many people complain about content but offer zero solutions.  Unless you have a solution I'm not particularly interested in your cheese and whine.  We've not seen anything better than this to date.  

 

Explain please, what's douchey about my response.... i think you are just venting for w/e the reason..... but do point out where i was a #$&(% or i disrespected you, if that was the case i will apologize to you. I just pointed out that what you stated was a lie, and i explained why with some additional game facts.... i didn't call you an idiot or that you were brainwashing people or anything of sorts.

 

I also believe i have already answered to your claim of "complain but offer no solution" in a previous reply to you. Also, in the post above i replied with ideas as OP asked me to with the lore.

As a wrap up thing.... i never complained about this idea, if you think i did, please quote the post where i complain or say this is a bad idea. I think this is a nice idea and it would be a nice addition if possible. But IF POSSIBLE, meaning that if the devs have to choose between this or actual endgame content and the challenge we lack.... i'd rather put this idea on hold for when there's time for it. If the choice is "more items" or this idea..... then by all mean, i'd much rather have this than more meaningless items/weapons without game lore or story plot.

[Bakercompany86]

This topic is almost at 400 upvotes...amazing!

 

 

Rightfully so.  This is such a great idea....  This will actually be close to an actual campaign.  

 

Anyone else as juiced about this idea as I am?

[Eisvogel]

Hi Eisvogel,

 

Thanks again for your feedback.

 

Can you explain what True Content is? And what Endgame would be?

 

Hey notion,

 

Don't mind the "True Content" thing.... that was in response to something Relink said about this not being "actual content" but a re-utilization of what it's available and additional features.

 

About Endgame.... well that's more complex, because that could vary a bit in subjective views..... i'll try an average standard approach.

At this point.... i think we have to agree that there's no actual endgame. If we had to say something..... i'd say the "endgame" is farming, and doing defense missions. Some would say that t3 def is the most challenging/endgame content along with nightmare missions. But i'd say that's far from it..... and even more, after getting nightmare and void things..... there's no point in ever bothering with them again....ever, that's not what i'd call endgame....

 

What we need is both challenge and endgame.... and not some cheap stat increased enemies.... that means nothing, just more bullets.... that's no challenge and it's just as boring as what we have, except longer. It would just mean to spend more time firing or more time inside a frost's globe, etc.... you get the point.

A good starting point would probably be the bosses..... bosses usually represent a big accomplishment.... the ultimate challenge of that stage/mission/world/etc. Here, bosses are just bullet sponges which you can kill half asleep or some even fully asleep. They remade Vor..... what's the change? There's no change.... just hide inside a frost globe... or keep your distance... or unleash hell into him and you now have to wait LONGER to kill him due those immunity states..... it just takes more time, that's about it.

Why not put some challenge into it? Examples of this..... well i dunno, there are prolly many ways.... some would like ones.... some would prefer others..... right out off the bat i can think something like this:

I think i said it before.... but how about to give some real use to parkour? (and this i suggested it many times on the forums) For instance... how about missions where you have to keep moving, and using parkour to advance the level.... for example.... maybe you are escaping from an exploding ship and you can't rely on the floor because it's falling apart and you have to parkour with explosions behind you, and just keep at it for your life. Or maybe in asteroids missions, the asteroid had a reaction and lava is filling up the level, so there are no more floor paths to use and you have to parkour for your life, while killing some remaining enemies... or as a plot twist, the faction nuked the asteroid core and that's why everything is going to hell...... prolly some would have more ideas... but i think that covers the point.

That would be for regular missions, but to the main dish.... how about a boss that is NOT a bullet sponge? How about a boss that chases you through the level.... or better yet, a big boss that chases you VERTICALLY and you have to parkour onto platforms or different floors, before the boss reaches you (insta killing you) and shoot him when you have the chance? How about that for a change of pace and a heartfelt experience?

 

Leaving parkour's ideas aside, one way or another.... bosses could use rework to actually be feared and not just discarded as another lame bullet sponge. Reaction phases are an easy way to accomplish this. For example, a grineer boss that from time to times stays in place charging a beam or a laser (whatever you want) and you have to react when it shoots you and dodge it to avoid being the new TennoToasty. Simple patterns that would you have to react and rely on your reflexes to try and do something different that just exchanging bullets or hide in a frost's globe or similar.

 

I hope i didn't extend myself too much.

 

Cheers =3

[Bakercompany86]

What we need is both challenge and endgame.... and not some cheap stat increased enemies.... that means nothing, just more bullets.... 

 

 

Finally, someone makes me feel like I'm not crazy.

[notionphil]

...I hope i didn't extend myself too much.

 

Cheers =3

 

Thanks very much for your ideas. I feel like you're primarily referring to needing better gameplay mechanics, more strategy, less repetitive play, etc, which I agree with 1000%. You may have seen my thread on some new enemy types to break up our gameplay a bit.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/91300-the-non-bullet-sponge-mobs-youre-looking-for/

 

That's just a small suggestion. More is needed.

 

However, I think that even with better gameplay mechanics, we'll still need a better Content Delivery System...a better Metagame. I really hope that Metagame is Cells. There's nothing worse than getting a new awesome boss and then have to grind him 100 times in a row, relying on the RNG and removing all sense of fun from that boss.

 

Let's hope we get both.

 

Nothing is fun 100 times in a row (and I've tried everything :P).

[Eisvogel]

 

-snip-

 

 

I couldn't agree more.

 

That's why i said, that if we had to choose.... i'd rather get the other (more critical imo) stuff first, and then this.......

Make no mistake, if we can have both together i'll be a happy kitten and i'll be jumping around my room.

 

Also, if it isn't yet clear at this point... i +1ed your idea the minute i finished reading it, i just pointed out the things we've been talking about due to the limited time and resources DE has, and due the fact the prolly have to choose on what to focus and can't tackle all these things together.

[Relkin]

you should try....

 

Lol i can hardly keep up with so many replies xD

 

 

 

 

Explain please, what's douchey about my response.... i think you are just venting for w/e the reason..... but do point out where i was a #$&(% or i disrespected you, if that was the case i will apologize to you. I just pointed out that what you stated was a lie, and i explained why with some additional game facts.... i didn't call you an idiot or that you were brainwashing people or anything of sorts.

 

I also believe i have already answered to your claim of "complain but offer no solution" in a previous reply to you. Also, in the post above i replied with ideas as OP asked me to with the lore.

As a wrap up thing.... i never complained about this idea, if you think i did, please quote the post where i complain or say this is a bad idea. I think this is a nice idea and it would be a nice addition if possible. But IF POSSIBLE, meaning that if the devs have to choose between this or actual endgame content and the challenge we lack.... i'd rather put this idea on hold for when there's time for it. If the choice is "more items" or this idea..... then by all mean, i'd much rather have this than more meaningless items/weapons without game lore or story plot.

You said I lied when I didn't and this hurt my feelings.  Jimmy's were ruffled. 

 

Anywho - I did look back through your posts but saw zero solutions tbh.  Every post you just kept saying we need real endgame content/challenge.  If I missed a post containing your solution beyond the last couple pages please point it out to me and I'll gladly read it with an open mind.  Not saying your whining about this idea so much, I even stated prior you brought up legit concerns.  I just dislike when people say "we need [insert vague concept]" or "____ is [derisive adjective]" without offering a solution or opening dialogue regarding the subject outside of more complaining.  

[Relkin]

Hey notion,

 

Don't mind the "True Content" thing.... that was in response to something Relink said about this not being "actual content" but a re-utilization of what it's available and additional features.

 

About Endgame.... well that's more complex, because that could vary a bit in subjective views..... i'll try an average standard approach.

At this point.... i think we have to agree that there's no actual endgame. If we had to say something..... i'd say the "endgame" is farming, and doing defense missions. Some would say that t3 def is the most challenging/endgame content along with nightmare missions. But i'd say that's far from it..... and even more, after getting nightmare and void things..... there's no point in ever bothering with them again....ever, that's not what i'd call endgame....

 

What we need is both challenge and endgame.... and not some cheap stat increased enemies.... that means nothing, just more bullets.... that's no challenge and it's just as boring as what we have, except longer. It would just mean to spend more time firing or more time inside a frost's globe, etc.... you get the point.

A good starting point would probably be the bosses..... bosses usually represent a big accomplishment.... the ultimate challenge of that stage/mission/world/etc. Here, bosses are just bullet sponges which you can kill half asleep or some even fully asleep. They remade Vor..... what's the change? There's no change.... just hide inside a frost globe... or keep your distance... or unleash hell into him and you now have to wait LONGER to kill him due those immunity states..... it just takes more time, that's about it.

Why not put some challenge into it? Examples of this..... well i dunno, there are prolly many ways.... some would like ones.... some would prefer others..... right out off the bat i can think something like this:

I think i said it before.... but how about to give some real use to parkour? (and this i suggested it many times on the forums) For instance... how about missions where you have to keep moving, and using parkour to advance the level.... for example.... maybe you are escaping from an exploding ship and you can't rely on the floor because it's falling apart and you have to parkour with explosions behind you, and just keep at it for your life. Or maybe in asteroids missions, the asteroid had a reaction and lava is filling up the level, so there are no more floor paths to use and you have to parkour for your life, while killing some remaining enemies... or as a plot twist, the faction nuked the asteroid core and that's why everything is going to hell...... prolly some would have more ideas... but i think that covers the point.

That would be for regular missions, but to the main dish.... how about a boss that is NOT a bullet sponge? How about a boss that chases you through the level.... or better yet, a big boss that chases you VERTICALLY and you have to parkour onto platforms or different floors, before the boss reaches you (insta killing you) and shoot him when you have the chance? How about that for a change of pace and a heartfelt experience?

 

Leaving parkour's ideas aside, one way or another.... bosses could use rework to actually be feared and not just discarded as another lame bullet sponge. Reaction phases are an easy way to accomplish this. For example, a grineer boss that from time to times stays in place charging a beam or a laser (whatever you want) and you have to react when it shoots you and dodge it to avoid being the new TennoToasty. Simple patterns that would you have to react and rely on your reflexes to try and do something different that just exchanging bullets or hide in a frost's globe or similar.

 

I hope i didn't extend myself too much.

 

Cheers =3

Now this is the kind of S#&$ I like to read.  Good job, and yes I'd love to see parkour be a mandatory feature!  FFS they give us the coolest feature and then make it useless lol  It'd could add awesome dynamics to boss battles. 

[Eisvogel]

You said I lied when I didn't and this hurt my feelings.  Jimmy's were ruffled. 

 

Anywho - I did look back through your posts but saw zero solutions tbh.  Every post you just kept saying we need real endgame content/challenge.  If I missed a post containing your solution beyond the last couple pages please point it out to me and I'll gladly read it with an open mind.  Not saying your whining about this idea so much, I even stated prior you brought up legit concerns.  I just dislike when people say "we need [insert vague concept]" or "____ is [derisive adjective]" without offering a solution or opening dialogue regarding the subject outside of more complaining.  

 

Awww.... i didn't want to hurt your feelingz..... me offerz you a friendly hugz

 

I am guessing that you looked in this thread and not in the forums, and i told you earlier (much earlier) that it's my opinion that making totally new ideas and wall-o-texts suggestions is a bit disrespectful to OPs and should be done in separate threads. Though i threw some at the request of OP.

 

I'll quote them here as snips to avoid spamming the post.

 

 

Lore and some points notion brought up in the quoted post:

 

snip

 

 

Mainly endgame ideas as answer to notion's question:

 

snip

[Makaveli61]

Awww.... i didn't want to hurt your feelingz..... me offerz you a friendly hugz

 

I am guessing that you looked in this thread and not in the forums, and i told you earlier (much earlier) that it's my opinion that making totally new ideas and wall-o-texts suggestions is a bit disrespectful to OPs and should be done in separate threads. Though i threw some at the request of OP.

 

I'll quote them here as snips to avoid spamming the post.

 

 

Lore and some points notion brought up in the quoted post:

 

 

 

Mainly endgame ideas as answer to notion's question:

Exactly waht im thoughs!

[Relkin]

Awww.... i didn't want to hurt your feelingz..... me offerz you a friendly hugz

 

I am guessing that you looked in this thread and not in the forums, and i told you earlier (much earlier) that it's my opinion that making totally new ideas and wall-o-texts suggestions is a bit disrespectful to OPs and should be done in separate threads. Though i threw some at the request of OP.

 

I'll quote them here as snips to avoid spamming the post.

 

 

Lore and some points notion brought up in the quoted post:

 

 

 

Mainly endgame ideas as answer to notion's question:

Ahh generally just link to them with a brief summary of why you think it is a superior/complimentary solution.  OP shouldn't be hurt by other ideas but instead encourage them - the more solutions the better esp. since there is rarely a truly "best" solution.  

 

*hugz*

*jazz flute*

[Eisvogel]

Ahh generally just link to them with a brief summary of why you think it is a superior/complimentary solution.  OP shouldn't be hurt by other ideas but instead encourage them - the more solutions the better esp. since there is rarely a truly "best" solution.  

 

*hugz*

*jazz flute*

 

Yeah i agree it's a nice approach, but as i am sure you already know.... not everyone is as understanding or as respectful as notionphil in these forums... :/ (and let's not even remember those dark times where downvoting was possible...)

[Relkin]

Yeah i agree it's a nice approach, but as i am sure you already know.... not everyone is as understanding or as respectful as notionphil in these forums... :/ (and let's not even remember those dark times where downvoting was possible...)

lol downvoting 

[Chronodroid]

McDonald's.

 

Wait what?

 

I'M lovin' it!

 

If you build is as drops, make "Sets" of them. 5-10 Cells can be tied to a bigger story unit, like a "Coccoon". Completing the 5-10 cells would yield individual rewards, completing ALL of them contains another reward, the one of the "Coccoon". :)

Edited August 9, 2013 by Chronodroid

[Paprika]

The difference between this and nightmare mode is that this can be expanded to become the actual Warframe experience. Lore for the solar system map is going to be limited. 

 

Steve said that Lore can be expanded to include choice (destroy or keep artifact?). I think that the types of Cells we choose can add to this. We can finally have Stealth as a mission type without making it mandatory for the casual players to attempt it. We can have Lotus unlock tidbits of Lore on the Warframe World based on the mission location (purchasing a Dossier could open up a new string of missions as mentioned, but on the planet it takes place in).

 

You just can't do that with nightmare mode. 

 

PS. I disagree with some of the random mission conditions. For example, I don't want Warframe powers to be barred as the powers themselves give the Warframes their unique character. 

[r3dzer0]

 

PS. I disagree with some of the random mission conditions. For example, I don't want Warframe powers to be barred as the powers themselves give the Warframes their unique character. 

i don't think that Notionphil is suggesting a removal, infact he has combatted that point repeatedly.  What he is saying is you can choose to do it with your uber loadout for the lore, or you can do it with restrictions fora  loot bonus at the end.  Atleast i'm fairly certain that is what he is saying