WAR, what is it good for?

[MKDLMR]

Absolutely nothing! 

Okay, joking aside this weapon needs a buff/re-work. I guess it is kind of effective against Corpus? I mean I've formaed it twice, but it still feels outclassed by my un-formaed scindo prime... against all enemy types. 

Thoughts? 

[IceColdHawk]

War is meh and purely blinds people because of it's stats.

Edited April 24, 2016 by IceColdHawk

[DeadlyPeanutt]

great title :) and i agree with OP

[(PSN)DBR87]

Saying War is "meh" is like saying Jat Kittag is "meh". 

Scindo Prime, for a very long times, was the most damaging melee weapon you could get. Technically, it still is if you have the skin that puts its base above War.

War gives you more range as a trade off for Scindo's Slash focus/meta favored IPS damage. I'm not a fan of War but I still recognize that it's a great weapon blessed with amazing stats. With all that base damage, Crits and elements scale wonderfully and beyond what Scindo P can achieve....with out the skin.

[ClinkzEastwood]

15 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

War is meh and purely blinds people because of it's stats.

It's great for people who doesn't want sliding.

Aka sane people.

Anyway doesn't it has higher reach than Scindo?

Edited April 24, 2016 by ClinkzEastwood

[IceColdHawk]

5 minutes ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

It's great for people who doesn't want sliding.

Aka sane people.

xD I love you clinkz.

5 minutes ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

Anyway doesn't it has higher reach than Scindo?

Idk but scindo is faster though. I played war and it's range felt like a lie to me. Huge sword with a pitiful range. Anyway, the reason i said it's meh isn't because of lesion. But because of it's slow, not good enough range, impact damage and it locks you into movement when swinging which can cost you a life in some situations because you can't dodge while swinging. It just feels so awkward to play. I'd take scindo prime, dual ichors or nikana prime over war any day. Maybe even destreza.

[ClinkzEastwood]

1 minute ago, IceColdHawk said:

xD I love you clinkz.

Idk but scindo is faster though. I played war and it's range felt like a lie to me. Huge sword with a pitiful range. Anyway, the reason i said it's meh isn't because of lesion. But because of it's slow, not good enough range, impact damage and it locks you into movement when swinging which can cost you a life in some situations because you can't dodge while swinging. It just feels so awkward to play. I'd take scindo prime, dual ichors or nikana prime over war any day. Maybe even destreza.

Doesn't it have the exactly the same attack speed and uses the same stance as Scindo prime?

Liking the "feel" of Scindo but not War seems pretty hypocritical to me.

[IceColdHawk]

1 minute ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

Doesn't it have the exactly the same attack speed and uses the same stance as Scindo prime?

Stance ye, speed no. War: 0.917     Scindo Prime: 0.967

1 minute ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

Liking the "feel" of Scindo but not War seems pretty hypocritical to me.

I didn't say i like the feel of scindo prime. To be honest, i don't like this weapon either. I only said i'd take scindo prime over War any day. Because it has slash damage and slightly higher speed. Nevertheless, i don't like heavy swords in general.

[MKDLMR]

24 minutes ago, (PS4)DBR87 said:

Saying War is "meh" is like saying Jat Kittag is "meh". 

Scindo Prime, for a very long times, was the most damaging melee weapon you could get. Technically, it still is if you have the skin that puts its base above War.

War gives you more range as a trade off for Scindo's Slash focus/meta favored IPS damage. I'm not a fan of War but I still recognize that it's a great weapon blessed with amazing stats. With all that base damage, Crits and elements scale wonderfully and beyond what Scindo P can achieve....with out the skin.

I'm going to disagree with you. Having used both the best analogy I can use is that War feels like I'm punching someone with boxing gloves on. Scindo Prime feels like I'm using brass knuckles instead. There's a lot much faster kill rate.  It's plan old more effective. I use melee primarily against melee units. Argue all you want, but War is a disappointment. Same goes for Jat Kittag. 

[(PSN)DBR87]

I also am more more of a melee player. Personally like Nikana Prime more than either weapon but you can't just say War is "meh" because it does mostly Impact and Scindo P is slash focused.

Yeah, wtih 4x CP Scindo P will do +50% more damage to Grineer and Corpus. But if we're not Optimzing our situations, War is on par and in some cases does more damage. Alloy armor particularly (bombards) resist Slash damage. Slash is - 50% while Impact is nuetral. Since Bombard is Grineer you also hit Clone Flesh the same time you hit Alloy Armor. Combined Clone Flesh+25% from Slash with -50% on Alloy still leaves Slash doing -25% less to Bombards. Impact is only -25% to Alloy so in reality both Scindo P and War would suffer -25% of the majority of their damage types on Alloy Armored Grineer. Ferrite Armor is a little easier on Scindo P since it only resist -15% of Slash.

War has 10 more base damage, 5 more status chance, equal crit stats, more range and negligible less speed. It literally is better on paper and Tempo Royal/Cleaving Whirlwind, Elements, and Crits scale higher on War because it has higher base damage. If you're doing runs meta perfect, Scindo Prime is stronger, especially against Infested since Slash does bonus damage to every health type in that faction.

TL;DR in practice Scindo P is better in most situations. On paper War is better. Neither are bad weapons. If you say War is 'meh' than nearly every other melee weapon in the game aside from Nikana Prime and Scindo Prime are more 'meh.' 

Side Note: Jat Kittag is another weapon I think is better than both Scindo P and War. The slam attack does Blast and Crushing Ruin has combos that end in slam attacks allowing Jat Kittag to one shot any infantry unit in the game so long as they fall down a hole or get blasted out the map. If they don't, it's a great and powerful weapon that has superior crowd control and sets up for ground finishers.

[IceColdHawk]

1 minute ago, (PS4)DBR87 said:

TL;DR in practice Scindo P is better in most situations. On paper War is better. Neither are bad weapons. If you say War is 'meh' than nearly every other melee weapon in the game aside from Nikana Prime and Scindo Prime are more 'meh.' 

True that but considering the high cost to get war (595p or after 5 years from stalker), it indeed IS meh. Compared to all the other good melees out there. Meh =/= MR fodder. Ofc it's better of a good chunk of other melee weapons BUT that only because there are so many weak melees out there.

[-VV-Phantom-Phoenix]

War is good for killing whatever you want.

So is Scindo P, so is Jat Kittag, so is Galactine, forget about Fragor (why does this get a prime, where's the Jat Kitty and galactine primes?)

At the end of the day all of these weapons and all other heavy weapons are too horribly slow for me to use on any frame except Volt P.

Don't get me wrong, i love all (not fragor) of them because i also love Volt P and with Volt P it doesn't matter which it is, it will be strong.

(P.S. i tend to use War more often now because it's prettier than the others and higher base damage means higher elemental combo damage as base damage types to me is basically not that important)

[Vasault]

like the song goes, absolutely nothing (8)

[Norbac-]

War is actually good for some warframes and has its purpose.

Wukong's primal fury and atlas landslide both deal impact damage. In order to maximize the dmg I can deal with those abilities I need impact mods like primed heavy trauma on my melee weapon. War is the best option for these warframes if for some reason I wasn't able to use these abilities and had to simply use my melee weapon.

[Wolfnrun]

I think its all preference, but war is mostly impact based despite having a high number in damage. I'm not a fan of impact on a melee but what it all boils down to is what and how you're going to use the weapon 

[chuckdm]

Two little things:

1) War may be slower than alternatives, but has a notably higher crit chance, so odds are that much better to proc Berserker that much faster.  Pair with the range + prime reach and it's actually hard NOT to get a Berserker stack every time you swing it, provided you have enough enemies around.

2) What is it good for?  Well, making Broken-War, if nothing else.  Just sayin'

[shut]

8 hours ago, MKDLMR said:

 It's plan old more effective. I use melee primarily against melee units.

Well, there you go. Slash is obviously going to be more effective against targets that have little to no armor.

 

EDIT:

People in this thread don't seem to realize that Slash is the second-worst damage type in the entire game against Alloy-armored enemies. Electric and Magnetic pull ahead for absolute-worst, and only barely.

These are the only three damage types that effectively give Alloy enemies 50% more armor to protect themselves with. And this is on top of already having their base damage cut in half against Alloy. Unreliable slash procs aren't going to make up for this on slow melee weapons like the Scindo.

Edited April 25, 2016 by SortaRandom

[ClinkzEastwood]

4 hours ago, chuckdm said:

Two little things:

1) War may be slower than alternatives, but has a notably higher crit chance, so odds are that much better to proc Berserker that much faster.  Pair with the range + prime reach and it's actually hard NOT to get a Berserker stack every time you swing it, provided you have enough enemies around.

2) What is it good for?  Well, making Broken-War, if nothing else.  Just sayin'

Broken-war is mastery fodder. I have no idea why one would want to craft it.

[Darthmufin]

5 hours ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

Broken-war is mastery fodder. I have no idea why one would want to craft it.

I agree, the highest damage out of all single swords is pretty terrible. 

[ClinkzEastwood]

17 minutes ago, Darthmufin said:

I agree, the highest damage out of all single swords is pretty terrible. 

Being the biggest fish in a small fishtank doesn't make you a big fish.

[chuckdm]

7 hours ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

Being the biggest fish in a small fishtank doesn't make you a big fish.

No, but Broken-War is the best stealth melee weapon in the game.  Why, you ask?  Longswords have the fastest stealth kill animation and Broken-War has the highest damage of all longswords.  Note that, if you just totally hate Draco, a stealth exterminate is often the next-best way to get Affinity/Focus.  Broken-War on Ivara does this beautifully.

Oh and your metaphor is flawed.  Might not make you a big fish but given the fact that nobody else in the fish tank has likely ever seen any fish not also in the fish tank, it doesn't really matter.  You're still the largest fish in the tank and that's kinda all that matters.  Whereas with melee weapons in Warframe, your argument has weight, with a fish tank it kinda doesn't.  Sorry, yeah, I'm an &#! sometimes.

[ClinkzEastwood]

48 minutes ago, chuckdm said:

No, but Broken-War is the best stealth melee weapon in the game.  Why, you ask?  Longswords have the fastest stealth kill animation and Broken-War has the highest damage of all longswords.  Note that, if you just totally hate Draco, a stealth exterminate is often the next-best way to get Affinity/Focus.  Broken-War on Ivara does this beautifully.

Oh and your metaphor is flawed.  Might not make you a big fish but given the fact that nobody else in the fish tank has likely ever seen any fish not also in the fish tank, it doesn't really matter.  You're still the largest fish in the tank and that's kinda all that matters.  Whereas with melee weapons in Warframe, your argument has weight, with a fish tank it kinda doesn't.  Sorry, yeah, I'm an &#! sometimes.

Redeemer is the best stealth melee weapon in the game.

Edited April 25, 2016 by ClinkzEastwood

[elele]

21 hours ago, -VV-Phantom-Phoenix said:

War is good for killing whatever you want.

So is Scindo P, so is Jat Kittag, so is Galactine, forget about Fragor (why does this get a prime, where's the Jat Kitty and galactine primes?)

At the end of the day all of these weapons and all other heavy weapons are too horribly slow for me to use on any frame except Volt P.

Don't get me wrong, i love all (not fragor) of them because i also love Volt P and with Volt P it doesn't matter which it is, it will be strong.

(P.S. i tend to use War more often now because it's prettier than the others and higher base damage means higher elemental combo damage as base damage types to me is basically not that important)

Lol you probably don't know Fragor is hitting 60k damage per hit in the elemental-resistant corpus intercept sortie. and it has insane speed with berserker. 

Can't get the same results with jet kitty because that massive knock range just sends enemies flying too far away without killing them.

[Dreddeth]

6 hours ago, chuckdm said:

Broken-War is the best stealth melee weapon in the game

 

5 hours ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

Redeemer is the best stealth melee weapon in the game

You're both objectively wrong, though the Redeemer's range advantage makes Eastwood less so, because Covert Lethality exists, and while a dagger's on-paper speed multiplier is typically meh, its base animation speed is obscene. Slap Fury on it as well and you'll never need another weapon for Stealth runs.

Back on topic, though, War is pretty objectively better than Scindo Prime because Slash suffers penalties against every form of protection apart from shields, and Body Count causes base damage gaps to become wider and wider as the combo count increases. Even if you're running 4x Corrosive Projection or Shield Disruption, you can still slap on Viral to compensate for Impact's minor reduction against Flesh, and since it scales off of your modded base damage, what I just said about Body Count still applies.

See, Scindo Prime's 130 base *2.0 is 260. War's 140 base *2.0 is 280. 130*3.0 is 390, while 140*3.0 is 420. The Scindo Prime not only scales worse with Shadow Debt mods, but again Slash is horrible against anything not fleshy and absolutely needs either *4CP or an elecombo, while Impact is neutral against armor and more effective against shields, meaning you can just slot in Viral and be good to go. The only time this doesn't work is against Infested, because Infested have 2 different types of flesh that take 2 different elecombos to effectively counter if you're not using a weapon with high Slash damage.

The Scindo Prime isn't even necessarily the best Slash weapon for dedicated melee since the Tekko, Nikana Prime, and Broken War are now things. The Tekko reaches red-crit territory easier than any other weapon and has tons of multihits in Gaia's Tragedy. The Nikana Prime has comparable base damage with much better base speed and equal crit stats. Broken War has only slightly less crit and a stance which makes its base damage a little over double that of the Scindo Prime at the cost of reducing it to the same speed, with the other stance having enough hits in its combos that it ramps up significantly faster, though Iron Phoenix does suck pretty hard.

Also, the Hammer category is wonderful, but what I said about base damage still holds, and last I checked they were all equal or slower than War with only two being Berserker viable, so their sustained DPS is likely less, though certainly competitive.

But really, why would you bring a Scindo or War to Grineer missions when the Destreza has a way better anti-armor IPS spread and guaranteed Bleed procs?

[-VV-Phantom-Phoenix]

On 4/25/2016 at 0:24 PM, elele said:

Lol you probably don't know Fragor is hitting 60k damage per hit in the elemental-resistant corpus intercept sortie. and it has insane speed with berserker. 

Can't get the same results with jet kitty because that massive knock range just sends enemies flying too far away without killing them.

i can't tell, is 60k supposed to impress me? I mean it's just sortie elemental-resistant corpus, there not exactly tough and its not like you have to massive AoE knock away enemies with jat kitty.

Edited April 27, 2016 by -VV-Phantom-Phoenix