Health orbs should restore a percentage of missing HP

[AdunSaveMe]

Health orbs are almost entirely useless, because they're rare, and they only restore a flat amount of 25 HP. Health restores are a joke and should never be something you have to completely rely on if you haven't brought one of the few frames that can heal you. This is especially harmful for solo play.

Since it's unlikely 25 HP is ever going to be a life-saving change, with a lot of enemies doing 30 times that amount of damage in a single shot (see: ballista), it should instead restore a certain amount of the health you're missing, on top of that flat amount. I see no way it would be unbalanced, just making the pickup actually worthwhile; you can take the risk of scooting out to pick up a health orb, rather than hiding in a corner for a few minutes.

Benefits everyone, but low health frames don't lose anything, because there's still the flat amount restored, with a bonus % on top.

Edited May 1, 2016 by AdunSaveMe

[-N7-Leonhart]

That is correct, but if this does get implemented, can you guess what will most certainly happen? Threads to do the same for energy will pop up like mushrooms after rain, because the game is not easy enough as it is.

[AdunSaveMe]

Just now, -BM-Leonhart said:

That is correct, but if this does get implemented, can you guess what will most certainly happen? Threads to do the same for energy will pop up like mushrooms after rain, because the game is not easy enough as it is.

Except energy orbs have a different purpose. They have more worth per orb.

How easy the game may or may not be is irrelevant.

[-N7-Leonhart]

Just now, AdunSaveMe said:

Except energy orbs have a different purpose. They have more worth per orb.

How easy the game may or may not be is irrelevant.

Not really. There are frames that have 650 energy, there are some that have 800. 25 is low for them, right?

[AdunSaveMe]

2 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

Not really. There are frames that have 650 energy, there are some that have 800. 25 is low for them, right?

But you don't require your max energy to cast abilities. You get more worth out of a few energy pickups than you do out of a few health pickups. It's the difference between having money and having blood.

[-N7-Leonhart]

Just now, AdunSaveMe said:

But you don't require your max energy to cast abilities. You get more worth out of a few energy pickups than you do out of a few health pickups. It's the difference between having money and having blood.

And I asked you what will most definitely happen if that does get implemented. Well, what do you think, will it happen? (hint, it's over 99%)

[AdunSaveMe]

Just now, -BM-Leonhart said:

And I asked you what will most definitely happen if that does get implemented. Well, what do you think, will it happen? (hint, it's over 99%)

"People will ask for another thing" is a stupid reason not to implement a change.

[Azrael]

I agree that 25 health is kind of a joke most of the time, especially for Inaros. "Oh, yay, I might survive another quarter-second of this toxin proc and then die 5 feet farther down the corridor then I would have otherwise!" I would support some sort of percentage-of-max-health thing or maybe a flat 25 plus 5% or so of what you're missing. Maybe less, I'm not sure, discussions would be needed.

BUT this would be a huge buff to frames that produce large numbers of health orbs, such as nekros or oberon. Nerfing these abilities to compensate would reduce these frames' value relative to other frames, and neither can really afford that. But continuing to cause lots of health drops would be unbalanced if we buffed the orbs themselves.

I agree with other posters that this sort of buff would be totally unwarranted for energy orbs (I mean, c'mon! We already have Zenurik...) but that has nothing to do with whether we should change the health orb mechanic.

*Edit: Granted, this would make health orbs more effective for frames with higher max health. But I think that's okay. Frames with more health have more health because they're supposed to *use* it.

Edited May 1, 2016 by Lord_Azrael

[Godiz]

git good and use Arcanes

 

[AdunSaveMe]

1 minute ago, Lord_Azrael said:

I agree that 25 health is kind of a joke most of the time, especially for Inaros. "Oh, yay, I might survive another quarter-second of this toxin proc and then die 5 feet farther down the corridor then I would have otherwise!" I would support some sort of percentage-of-max-health thing or maybe a flat 25 plus 5% or so of what you're missing. Maybe less, I'm not sure, discussions would be needed.

BUT this would be a huge buff to frames that produce large numbers of health orbs, such as nekros or oberon. Nerfing these abilities to compensate would reduce these frames' value relative to other frames, and neither can really afford that. But continuing to cause lots of health drops would be unbalanced if we buffed the orbs themselves.

That would simply give them more value. Oberon can heal better than that by default, and it'd just make Nekros more useful. Getting three or four health orbs out of a desecrate or two isn't going to suddenly break the game.

[AdunSaveMe]

1 minute ago, GunDemon said:

git good and use Arcanes

 

git good and come up with a proper argument

[Godiz]

Just now, AdunSaveMe said:

git good and come up with a proper argument

get arcanes that restore hp or use the new sentinel mod there are plenty of ways to restore hp including rejuv

 

 

[AdunSaveMe]

2 minutes ago, GunDemon said:

get arcanes that restore hp or use the new sentinel mod there are plenty of ways to restore hp including rejuv

Arcanes are weak and unreliable and based on RNG rewards from a raid. The new sentinel mod is garbage. Rejuv is a joke. None of the things you listed are reliable ways of recovering health from a nuke in a short amount of time, and none of them change the fact that health orb pickups are worthless.

Edited May 1, 2016 by AdunSaveMe

[Azrael]

13 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

That would simply give them more value. Oberon can heal better than that by default, and it'd just make Nekros more useful.

You know what? You're right. Nekros isn't played all that much anymore, and I don't see much problem with giving him a slight buff. We need more healers who aren't Trin, anyway. So I guess I retract my previous objection. This is a good idea. It's more of a balance, really, than a buff. It brings other frames a little closer to the main healers (here I'm including Inaros, who can turn an entire hallway into a giant healing chamber).

Edited May 1, 2016 by Lord_Azrael
fixed an error. Need to learn to type...

[Godiz]

neither is Health orbs, even if they restored more hp per orb they don't happen often enough. i never was defending the fact health orbs are useless i was listing ways to atleast recover from a nuke. 

[DeMonkey]

2 minutes ago, GunDemon said:

get arcanes that restore hp or use the new sentinel mod there are plenty of ways to restore hp including rejuv

 

 

Alternatives do not mean that a blatantly bad mechanic should be kept the way it is. That is literally what you're doing by attempting to tell Adun he's wrong to ask for health orbs to be buffed, you're advocating a useless mechanic.

[AdunSaveMe]

Just now, GunDemon said:

neither is Health orbs, even if they restored more hp per orb they don't happen often enough. i never was defending the fact health orbs are useless i was listing ways to atleast recover from a nuke. 

None of those ways are ways to recover from a nuke unless you hide in a tunnel for a few minutes, which is anti-gameplay.

Seriously dude, A SIX TO EIGHT PERCENT for a tiny bit of health regen on damage or headshots? Absolutely completely unreliable and only useful if you then hide in a corner. And the sentinel mod; 12% over 4 seconds, "occasionally"? Some enemies do three times that amount in less than a second, constantly.

[DaftMeat]

IMO, health orbs are only good for one thing:

[Azrael]

8 minutes ago, GunDemon said:

git good and use Arcanes

Git gud and be a helpful part of the discussion. Arcanes are expensive and not accessible to new players. Stop feeling so proud of yourself for having one.

5 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Arcanes are weak and unreliable

Actually my Grace is *really* good, and I can usually rely on it quite easily, so long as I keep in mind how to use it. But Arcanes are still too expensive to use as a fix to the weak health orbs.

[Godiz]

1 minute ago, AdunSaveMe said:

None of those ways are ways to recover from a nuke unless you hide in a tunnel for a few minutes, which is anti-gameplay.

Seriously dude, A SIX TO EIGHT PERCENT for a tiny bit of health regen on damage or headshots? Absolutely completely unreliable and only useful if you then hide in a corner. And the sentinel mod; 12% over 4 seconds, "occasionally"? Some enemies do three times that amount in less than a second, constantly.

i NEVER said it was faster and it is reliable depending on your frame and what you have on. "occasionally" every time i've been damaged its activated.

[AdunSaveMe]

Just now, GunDemon said:

i NEVER said it was faster and it is reliable depending on your frame and what you have on. "occasionally" every time i've been damaged its activated.

Do you know what 'reliable' means? Because in most cases, it does not include a six percent chance to heal a bit when you get damaged. That's the opposite of reliable. Even if it does work, you still have to sit in a corner while it does its thing.

[Godiz]

4 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

Git gud and be a helpful part of the discussion. Arcanes are expensive and not accessible to new players. Stop feeling so proud of yourself for having one.

actually, depending on how new ur talking someone can get a set of arcane victorys for 350-400p which compared to Grace isnt bad.

Adun, EVERY time you take damage from a outside source it's 4% on that hit that includes shield

Edited May 1, 2016 by GunDemon

[Maicael]

I don't think it's the 25 Health per orb that's a problem. I think it's how rare it is to find them (aside from ability spawned ones).

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

While I really do think that a lot of things should become multiplicative based over additive based (changing to percentages of things), I don't think health orbs is something that is needed. As part of a mission, I take the time to restore my health by opening up lockers, or using Warframes capable of healing me. 
Personally, I find Nekros's health orb drops to be the perfect go between of OP (Trinity immortal blessing build) and tactical healing.

Not that I find this change to be unbalanced, I just don't find it to be necessary.

[AdunSaveMe]

1 minute ago, GunDemon said:

actually, depending on how new ur talking someone can get a set of arcane victorys for 350-400p which compared to Grace isnt bad.

You're killing me here, dude. If only I, a new player, had FOUR HUNDRED PLATINUM just lying around so I could have an 8% chance to heal for 16% hp over 8 seconds. Unfortunately, since I don't, I have to sit in a corner and hope you don't kill me even more while I regenerate 3 health a second from Rejuvenation.