Health orbs should restore a percentage of missing HP

[AdunSaveMe]

3 minutes ago, Zachatoo said:

We just need more health orb drops, not make the health orb drops more worthwhile. Take a look at Nekros, if you use Desecrate fairly often then you'll have dozens of health orbs lying around consistently. You pick all those up at once and you've just gained 200-500 health in less than 10 seconds. It is a quantity problem, not a quality problem. We need the chance for enemies to drop health orbs to be buffed then the combination of multiple orbs will make a difference in your survivability.

It is absolutely a quality problem. Imagine if every ammo drop restored 1 ammo to you.

[Zachatoo]

2 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

It is absolutely a quality problem. Imagine if every ammo drop restored 1 ammo to you.

No imagining. They don't. Neither do health orbs. 25 health is an acceptable amount for most situations. The only exception is Inaros, but he has other methods of regaining health. I still stand by my statement, we need more health orbs for more consistent health rather than bursts of health. If you want bursts of health then you can lifestrike or use pads.

[AdunSaveMe]

3 minutes ago, Zachatoo said:

No imagining. They don't. Neither do health orbs. 25 health is an acceptable amount for most situations. The only exception is Inaros, but he has other methods of regaining health. I still stand by my statement, we need more health orbs for more consistent health rather than bursts of health. If you want bursts of health then you can lifestrike or use pads.

But if health orbs restore more you achieve the same benefit, with less running around, and less RNG dictation. You might get shafted because you aren't spawning the fifty orbs you need to hit half health. You would need to kill far more enemies overall for additional quantity to make health orbs a viable way to heal, which means low spawns make them worthless. Benefit per orb fixes the problem across the board, whereas increasing quantity makes it slightly better, but still niche, still unreliable, and far more reliant on how many enemies you kill and how lucky you get compared to having a greater benefit from each orb.

Edited May 1, 2016 by AdunSaveMe

[Maicael]

13 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

It is absolutely a quality problem. Imagine if every ammo drop restored 1 ammo to you.

That's skewing the example in favor of your argument. Rifle ammo drops replenish 20 ammo of a base pool usually around 540.
Health orbs replenish 25 Health on Warframes that the majority have less base health than 540 at max rank (even with the lower ranks of Vitality many frames are under 540).
Edit: On top of that, your Health losses shouldn't be exceeding the amount of ammo that rifle is consuming, either. If it is, then you've probably just reached the point that you can't keep fighting anyway. Making Health orbs drop from enemies less commonly than ammo or energy is all that needs to be done without changing how they work.

Edited May 1, 2016 by Maicael

[(PSN)Prisma144]

I also think health orbs are insignificant overshadowed completly by other means of health restauration and should be buffed.

Energy orbs on the other hand drop frequently and combinded with efficiency provide enough (except endless mission power spam with flow and energy restore).

 

 

[Troll_Logic]

12 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

So universal energy boxes turning into ammo and dropping out of literally everything makes sense to you, but self-contained orbs of healing energy do not? That's a little silly, friendo.

Well, let's go over your reply.

12 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

So universal energy boxes turning into ammo and dropping out of literally everything makes sense to you

Yes because I consider ammo to be energy.  That's the only way all pistol calibers can be consistent.  All rifle calibers to be consistent.  And so on.

13 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

but self-contained orbs of healing energy do not?

I didn't say health orbs didn't make sense.  You said

42 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Restores are anti-gameplay and a poor mechanic to rely on

and I replied that restores made more sense than "little pools of health" that float out of dead bodies or fall out of lockers.

[Zachatoo]

8 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

far more reliant on how many enemies you kill and how lucky you get compared to having a greater benefit from each orb.

It's still rng reliant either way, that doesn't make a difference. Health orbs should be reliant on killing enemies, similar to how energy orbs are. If you aren't killing, you aren't getting energy to fuel your abilities. Same principle.

[AdunSaveMe]

1 minute ago, Zachatoo said:

It's still rng reliant either way, that doesn't make a difference. Health orbs should be reliant on killing enemies, similar to how energy orbs are. If you aren't killing, you aren't getting energy to fuel your abilities. Same principle.

It does make a difference. Because instead of having to kill 20 enemies to get one health drop to save your life, you have to kill 200 enemies to get 50 health drops to save your life. This does not work in every mission type, and does not work when you're getting occasional pips of healing instead of the burst you need to stay alive.

[(PSN)KrakenUnchained]

I really see no issues with health orbs, could you imagine if they will restore a percentage of health? Just get a Nekros ingame for a 99% blessing to the whole team.. please.. Is fine like it is, there are so many ways to heal yourself

[Urlan]

I think AdunSaveMe's idea is a good one, I have often wondered at the point of life orbs in matches when they heal so little compared to enemy damage. Making them percentage based would improve the flow of the game and would be especially useful to players that don't have Rejuvenation or healer warframes available.

[AdunSaveMe]

1 minute ago, (PS4)KrakenUnchained said:

I really see no issues with health orbs, could you imagine if they will restore a percentage of health? Just get a Nekros ingame for a 99% blessing to the whole team.. please.. Is fine like it is, there are so many ways to heal yourself

I'd like you to read some of the arguments in this thread, because everything you said has been addressed.

Except for the nekros with a 99% blessing, which doesn't make any sense, because exactly the opposite scenario was implied right from my first post.

[IceColdHawk]

Oh oh oh what is happening here i do not understand haha. On the first hand we got one dude, demanding health orbs to be useful and on the other hand we got dudes disputing it or saying it "doesn't make sense" which is just too funny.

@AdunSaveMe Great idea dude. I wholeheartedly support it. I've never come across health orbs ever being useful. I either got a furis, a trin or my good ol' health plates with me. While i'm not saying i got no probs to keep myself on 2 legs, it would be greatly appreciated that health orbs give a NOTICABLE amount of hp back. Aside from a despoil nekros with his good ol' carrier, they are currently just useless. While energy orbs drop frequently and, provided i got enough efficiency, are enough to sustain me in using my abilities.

27 minutes ago, Zachatoo said:

No imagining. They don't. Neither do health orbs. 25 health is an acceptable amount for most situations.

Not really. In most situations you either 1. Give no fk about losing health since you're roflstomping everything in your way or 2. Get oneshot or just lose like 300 hp by a heavy hit. Now, how do you get it back without relying on wf abilities or plates?

15 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

and I replied that restores made more sense than "little pools of health" that float out of dead bodies or fall out of lockers.

Wake up dude, this is a video game, not real life. If you consider this as bad, i bet you won't like any video game ever.

Also:

15 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

I didn't say health orbs didn't make sense.

?

2 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

Nope.  I think that makes no sense.  A flat amount of HP makes sense to me.

Fk real life. Real life doesn't make sense. People with a flu aren't instantly healed the next day after a few injections. Booooo.

Spoiler

Please just stop talking about "sense" when you don't know what it means. I beg you.

 

 

Edited May 1, 2016 by IceColdHawk

[Zachatoo]

19 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

It does make a difference. Because instead of having to kill 20 enemies to get one health drop to save your life, you have to kill 200 enemies to get 50 health drops to save your life. This does not work in every mission type, and does not work when you're getting occasional pips of healing instead of the burst you need to stay alive.

I think you have the situation backwards... Health orb drop chance is so low that you would have to kill a ludicrous amount of enemies to get full health back, even with your system. Upping the drop chance will fix the problem by itself, instead of introducing complicated systems (which DE wants to get rid of, look up the new fusing system and starchart). It really is a simple problem with a simple solution and you're over complicating it.

[(PSN)KrakenUnchained]

15 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

I'd like you to read some of the arguments in this thread, because everything you said has been addressed.

Except for the nekros with a 99% blessing, which doesn't make any sense, because exactly the opposite scenario was implied right from my first post.

Well walking on a red carpet that heals based on percentage and not just 25 health per orb would be like a 99% blessing, trust me, i mainly Nekros and the health orbs amount hes able to desacrate is already enough to give an huge survability to the team

[Troll_Logic]

11 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Oh oh oh what is happening here i do not understand haha. On the first hand we got one dude, demanding health orbs to be useful and on the other hand we got dudes disputing it or saying it "doesn't make sense" which is just too funny.

And on the third hand we've got a drive by commentator who has a history of purposefully misconstruing replies.

Yes it's a video game.  It's in a different universe.  Things have to make sense in that universe.  No idea why you brought "real life" analogies into this discussion.  

Oh. that's right.  You purposefully misconstrue replies. 

[IceColdHawk]

1 minute ago, Troll_Logic said:

And on the third hand we've got a drive by commentator who has a history of purposefully misconstruing replies.

Oh. that's right.  You purposefully misconstrue replies. 

Sorry but i think this makes no sense.

4 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

Yes it's a video game.  It's in a different universe.  Things have to make sense in that universe.  No idea why you brought "real life" analogies into this discussion.  

Oh, i don't know what sense means master. Excuse me for my lack of knowledge. I thought i'd use "real life" analogies since they are the source of "sense".

Anyway sarcasm aside, you're partially right, things have to make sense in that universe. And considering the universe we talk about is "WARFRAME", health orbs actually make sense my friend (or let's remove energy and ammo drops??). And now since the sarcasm is away, i wholeheartedly want to let you know that you're purposefully misconstruing the word "sense".

Peace.

[Troll_Logic]

8 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Sorry but i think this makes no sense.

That's because you're omitting my words and then replying to your edits.  Remember my "purposefully misconstruing replies" 

8 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

And considering the universe we talk about is "WARFRAME", health orbs actually make sense my friend (or let's remove energy and ammo drops??).

You know, in an earlier reply I almost typed "Just because I say that one thing makes more sense than another, doesn't mean that the second item makes no sense."  I didn't type that because I thought that comment was so basic it could be insulting.

[Azrael]

57 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Oh, i don't know what sense means master. Excuse me for my lack of knowledge.

 

36 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

That's because you're omitting my words and then replying to your edits. 

You guys are going to get this thread locked. If you want to have it out, perhaps consider using the private message system?

C'mon, let's get back on topic. OP proposes buffing health orbs. I proposed a formula to use. Others have suggested buffing the chance, and some have said they'd prefer to leave them alone. What do you guys think? Care to summarize your opinions?

[AdunSaveMe]

2 hours ago, (PS4)KrakenUnchained said:

Well walking on a red carpet that heals based on percentage and not just 25 health per orb would be like a 99% blessing, trust me, i mainly Nekros and the health orbs amount hes able to desacrate is already enough to give an huge survability to the team

It would not make him anywhere near as op as you think it would. On top of that, it's a very poor reason not to implement the change.

At best, he'd be half as good as a Trinity, and at worst, he'd actually become more viable.

Edited May 2, 2016 by AdunSaveMe

[Troll_Logic]

1 hour ago, Lord_Azrael said:

 

You guys are going to get this thread locked. If you want to have it out, perhaps consider using the private message system?

No doubt.  He's on ignore for that reason.

1 hour ago, Lord_Azrael said:

C'mon, let's get back on topic. OP proposes buffing health orbs. I proposed a formula to use. Others have suggested buffing the chance, and some have said they'd prefer to leave them alone. What do you guys think? Care to summarize your opinions?

A nominal amount of health by a health orb makes sense to me.

[IceColdHawk]

1 hour ago, Lord_Azrael said:

You guys are going to get this thread locked. If you want to have it out, perhaps consider using the private message system?

I had no further intentions to continue nor to derail. So no worries man, everything is cool. With that said:

1 hour ago, Lord_Azrael said:

C'mon, let's get back on topic. OP proposes buffing health orbs. I proposed a formula to use. Others have suggested buffing the chance, and some have said they'd prefer to leave them alone. What do you guys think? Care to summarize your opinions?

Of course i care. I also did in a part of my first reply. Anyway, i vote for a buff of health orbs AND buffing the chance. Or just, make them DROP: Currently aside from wf abilities they only drop from kavats, drahks and kubrows and also from loot crates and lockers. The latter things are also completely made redundant in endless missions since once they're used, they're used. So i'd be proud to see that enemies can drop them too and that they give more than only 25%. Adun's idea doesn't sound too bad though. The less hp you have, the more you get. Makes them a bit more useful for frames with more hp as opposed to 25 HP which is by all respect just a joke. An increase to 75 hp could do too maybe. But i find the idea of Adun a bit better and more fair. But please, for the love of god, let them drop! Maybe not as often as energy orbs but let them drop!

[Azrael]

2 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

But please, for the love of god, let them drop! Maybe not as often as energy orbs but let them drop!

So much this. If we get nothing else changed, at least let them drop occasionally. I quite like my own idea (see: the formula I posted), but I'd be in favor of *anything* stronger than what we have now, which is a waste of a model of a pretty red orb. They should not be the sole domain of nekros and oberon.

[Leyers_of_facade]

Hm, I think health orbs can be "improved" but not by adding percentages to it, but rather increase its drop rate.

Even in long runs, the drop rate of health orbs are quite terrible in general to be honest, and it is usually more efficient if you rely on a heal ability.

To me, I don't really see a problem, if I need health? Pulls out my melee (likely to be destreza as I like it, but it doesn't matter), life strike will do the job. Or, if I am running a long run, then I can always rely on saryn's regen molt augment if I am using her or I run around with 2 hp thanks to QT and rely on my energy to live. I can see it to some extent a problem to new players as they might not have these mods, but I think it isn't much of a problem for people who have at least some sort of decent gear around.

 

My suggestion: Increase drop rate of health orbs in lower level mission (if needed), it is fine for the middle to end game players especially when life strike (unranked) can heal them a lot, they have arcane, or even QT as a last resort, these are more than enough to sustain unless you plan to facetank everything when you are not using a tank frame.

[o.0-]

Health Orbs!

Back in my day they were rare and special!

 

At any rate, changes to orbs would be fine by me! 

[AdunSaveMe]

15 hours ago, Lord_Azrael said:

So much this. If we get nothing else changed, at least let them drop occasionally. I quite like my own idea (see: the formula I posted), but I'd be in favor of *anything* stronger than what we have now, which is a waste of a model of a pretty red orb. They should not be the sole domain of nekros and oberon.

It's their sole domain and it's not even a good one