So, about Saryn...

[ButterLutter]

29 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

Those videos were an uncharacteristically poor display of the bugs he is referring to.  Spore's issue is that once an enemy has a Toxin proc spread to them by Spore, they don't take any more Toxin procs.  Stacked procs also don't seem to properly transmit, often resulting in lower numbers than expected.  If Spore actually worked as advertised it would be ridiculously powerful, but the current behavior is unsatisfying.  Perhaps a sharper penalty on spread proc damage?  Any power that multiplies weapon damage is problematic to balance. 

If ThatOddDeer really meant this as a bug, i can only agree that he displayed and explained it terribly.
Cant say if your explained bug is real or not, didnt notice it in actual gameplay and not interested in testing this right now (was enough in the training room for the past few days xD )

[RealPandemonium]

1 hour ago, ButterLutter said:

If ThatOddDeer really meant this as a bug, i can only agree that he displayed and explained it terribly.
Cant say if your explained bug is real or not, didnt notice it in actual gameplay and not interested in testing this right now (was enough in the training room for the past few days xD )

It's kind of hard to observe it clearly due to the low-contrast digits flying all over the place, especially when in an actual mission, but you'll see that enemies are restricted to a single instance of Toxin from a spread spore, which prevents you from accumulating Toxin damage on large groups with Spores.

[ThatOddDeer]

I know I need to refine the showcase of the bug more but that's the clearest I can get with warframe's low contrast numbers and having to monitor such a large clump of numbers among many to differentiate the low and high numbers. Also thanks to @[DE]Danielle for fixing the formatting of the post. One thing I will admit is that the bug is difficult to replicate from weapon to weapon and fixing that bug would only be 1 out of many bugs that plague saryn and then there are still the issues of anti-synergy.

[AEP8FlyBoy]

7 hours ago, alergiclaprosti said:

Those enemies don't hit as hard as pure Grineer or Coprus.

You can do that in T4 beacuse the damage coming out of those enemies is low  and inaccurate enough for your Rage, Life Strike and "the one that increases the duration of the combo counter" to manage.

Also, most frames can do good with those mods so what you took a picture of is not Saryn, but the combination of the upper mentioned mods.

Saryn is still mediocre at best.

For one, I don't use Rage. For second, enemies in a T4 mission deal 3x more damage than normal enemies, which makes something like a 1-hour Survival on Saturn a cake walk.

• It is important to note that all enemies in Tower IV Orokin Void deal three times more damage (300%) than normal, similar to the damage buff in Nightmare Mode.

That screenshot was all about Toxic Lash, and secondly about Body Count and Life Strike. Without the damage reduction you receive from it, Saryn would fall as quickly as any other lower Armor Frame. Saryn is not mediocre, it just takes a player who doesn't judge her based on her stats, but rather on her actual strengths to achieve with her.

As with any frame of course.

[Djego27]

5 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

Stacked procs also don't seem to properly transmit, often resulting in lower numbers than expected.  If Spore actually worked as advertised it would be ridiculously powerful, but the current behavior is unsatisfying.  Perhaps a sharper penalty on spread proc damage?  Any power that multiplies weapon damage is problematic to balance.  

 

 

Well a lot of frames provide very simple buffs to it while Saryn it is the only status dps frame in the game(at least until status shotguns get and Ember also counts as status driven dps frame). Damage procs work a lot better if you create several small groups(needs electric or ice on the weapon to separate mobs in mission types like defence) since the spore bounce will often not work properly if you AOE down the same group. While it on paper might look super powerful, keep in mind that most weapons for AOE status have vastly different mechanics when it comes to DOT calculation. Torid for example modded to over 12k damage on hit only transfers a 40 points toxic proc with gas(and given how much damage that stacks up in infested defence there is a good reason for that).

In the end, at close to L100 you actually spend nearly as much time with saryn killing the last few eximus units each wave then all the other units, since the frame lacks single target dps(by the weapon\modding requirement for AOE dps as well as not having something in her kit to fix that) and once your targets dry up, so does your dps. While you can AOE dot yourself through 40 waves super quick and easy I still think it is kind of underwhelming, comparing it with Ember, that most people consider under performing as well.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Djego27

[Djego27]

12 minutes ago, AEP8FlyBoy said:

For one, I don't use Rage. For second, enemies in a T4 mission deal 3x more damage than normal enemies, which makes something like a 1-hour Survival on Saturn a cake walk.

• It is important to note that all enemies in Tower IV Orokin Void deal three times more damage (300%) than normal, similar to the damage buff in Nightmare Mode.

That screenshot was all about Toxic Lash, and secondly about Body Count and Life Strike. Without the damage reduction you receive from it, Saryn would fall as quickly as any other lower Armor Frame. Saryn is not mediocre, it just takes a player who doesn't judge her based on her stats, but rather on her actual strengths to achieve with her.

As with any frame of course.

 

The damage reduction is only on the block and you don't block while actually attacking targets at melee range, it would be much more useful if that would be a damage reduction to the frame itself when you are in melee mode. Currently beside much better HP, armor and even energy Saryn feels much more squishy then Ember for melee runs, the reason fo that is the lack of quick CC and that you can only block while going towards the next target, not while attacking it.

 

[Synpai]

One of the smallest but biggest things they could do for Saryn is make her Molt act like it's PvP variant with an AOE damage shield.

[Shuggendo]

The only impactful problem I still see with Saryn is her lack of survivability. She's always been made out to be a "tanky" frame by stats, but she doesn't have the best tools to help that. She is a DoT kinda gal, so what she wants is to outlast her opponent, basically, yes? So yeah, her damage is good (yeah sue me, I think her damage is great, especially in higher levels where enemies survive long enough so her spores can actually spread and infect the whole map)

But, toxic lash basically "forces" you to play melee if you want the damage reduction from blocking, which is her only defense (since molt is really used more for how it can take spores and spread toxic procs lol). They nerfed her HP which is a severe blow on her survivability. I personally think they should either increase her HP back to 150 (if not even up it to 175) or give toxic lash's damage reduction on Saryn herself and not just her block (which caps at 90% and makes it practically useless on certain weapons with already high mitigation like Ack & Brunt). Or both, really.

TL;DR. Buff her HP and give her innate mitigation on toxic lash (not on block) and with that increased survivability she'll do great.

[(XBOX)Twinna25]

Spore build Saryn with gas hikou and Lanka can get up to wave eighty on defense if backed up with a nova, frost and Zephyr....

[(PSN)martin576]

4 hours ago, (XB1)Twinna25 said:

Spore build Saryn with gas hikou and Lanka can get up to wave eighty on defense if backed up with a nova, frost and Zephyr....

Tell me more please, share builds too.

[crashapple12]

my thought's tend to lean towards her problem entirely based on molt

just some ideas for some changes to molt

• molt initially works like a weaker iron skin
• saryn can shed this second skin, which would also trigger an aoe toxin cloud around molt (this would not pop spores)
• molt's health is shared with its iron skin stage

 

Edited May 22, 2016 by crashapple12

[(XBOX)Twinna25]

Saryn:

Corrosive projection-better scaling

prime flow

prime continuity

stretch

intensify

overextended

blind rage

---

steel fibre and vitality help as well, if you use a self damage weapon such as Hikou

 

Hikou:

Barrel diffusion

lethal torrent

concealed explosives

gunslinger

trick mag

ice storm

anemic agility

Pistol Ammo mutation

---

Hikou can pop spores, before they instantly transfer back to the original person due to multishot.

 

the Lanka is used by a friend of mine, and so i'll have to ask them for the build next time i speak to them.