Vauban's building requirements are too high [Reply from DE]

[WolfTitan]

There is something very wrong with the build requirements of recent (last few months) weapons and frame.

The requirements are inconsistent with those of all other weapons and frames.

Most weapons require less than 1000 cryotic and less than 1000 oxium to build. Yet the recent weapons and frames cost many times that. I am unhappy about this inconsistency,

[(XBOX)Rancheroni]

Just now, WolfTitan said:

There is something very wrong with the build requirements of recent (last few months) weapons and frame.

The requirements are inconsistent with those of all other weapons and frames.

Most weapons require less than 1000 cryotic and less than 1000 oxium to build. Yet the recent weapons and frames cost many times that. I am unhappy about this inconsistency,

I'm talking about Vauban himself though, the other weapons are a thread for themselves, but regular vauban is hard to obtain, it only makes sense that in some what Vauban Prime is also hard to obtain

[(PSN)Silverback73]

Don't worry.  You'll forget ALL ABOUT VP when the rare container frame is released ???????????.

[(PSN)RedChili69]

Prime Stuff should require many resources to build honestly.

As for hard to obtain, Vauban Prime is not hard to obtain, it has a high resource requirement, but it's still easy to get. Farming resources takes time, but it is not hard to do.

 

 

 

 

[TheBrsrkr]

4 hours ago, DarkOvion said:

So your solution, is spend 40 minutes a day farming.

So that means 1-2 weeks to get the needed Oxium.

Then another week to get the Cryotic.

Then all the time to farm out the parts.

So it's a reasonable, and fair cost to expect it take take 1-2 months to get?

Why can half of these things not be done at the same time? Spend 40 minutes, a single run, actually farming, and then spend the rest of your time doing the T3 you were going to do anyway, or not. Why do you need it now? Why can't it be a long term goal? Why shouldn't it? Why are you ignoring the 0 seconds of time you spent farming all of the other resources? Tell me, why is it bad that it takes 1-2 months of not even constant farming to get it? 

 

4 hours ago, DarkOvion said:

The fact it's 2-3 times the overall cost of any other warframe (inc primes) and all is irrelevant right?

This is a completely separate issue from before, one a year and a half in the making. Don't complain when you get what you asked for. And this IS what the playerbase asked for when they would not let go of power farming. And no, the power farming didn't come into place because of the grind, it was the exact opposite. 

[Melos-mevim]

12 hours ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Want it for free, instead? Is that the sum of it? Zero grind and just race through all content, then say to DE, "I'm bored. No new items this month?"

If nothing is earned how can it even be appreciated? It's simply just more mastery fodder for consumption. -_-
 

 

oh I don't want it instantly and I have no problem bloody farming for stuff my issue is for farming for an amount of a certain resource that is higher than anything else i have had to farm it for

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

48 minutes ago, Melos-mevim said:

 

oh I don't want it instantly and I have no problem bloody farming for stuff my issue is for farming for an amount of a certain resource that is higher than anything else i have had to farm it for

I didn't even know what Cryoic was when I came back, didn't even seek it out, but got it passively just blasting away Infested at Hieracon. Have so much Alloy doing nothing, too. Oxium I just farmed for a day and got enough for what I needed, too.

It's because there's so much resources something else has to be the gate now in return. Nitain is that gate.

Resource creep is a bane of any game, just like power creep. As long as min/maxers race to get everything ASAP and in amounts that are astronomical to feel like they're getting rewarded for doing something (or even bribed to do stuff anymore -- i.e., the "goody bag" concept), this will be the result.

Went from painful camps for days and ghost walking/corpse running time sinks. To goody bags and other bribes. What will happen next who knows, but this concept has been there since games began. Content can never come as quickly as people actually can get, so time sinking will happen.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Kevyne_Kicklighter

[DarkOvion]

41 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Why can half of these things not be done at the same time? Spend 40 minutes, a single run, actually farming, and then spend the rest of your time doing the T3 you were going to do anyway, or not. Why do you need it now? Why can't it be a long term goal? Why shouldn't it? Why are you ignoring the 0 seconds of time you spent farming all of the other resources? Tell me, why is it bad that it takes 1-2 months of not even constant farming to get it?

Here's the thing.

Almost everything else in the game, I deem reasonable.

I don't want it now, but I don't want it to take so long and be so tedious, that the game isn't fun.

I don't just go do a T3 or T4 just because, we go because there's something we want to farm.

If I want to do something fun, I'll go do spies, or play something else at this point... because honestly, there's no challenge, and everything is just grindy make work.

I'd happily put a few hours in to get the thing.

But 12-30... Far less happy to do it, as it's not fun.

We got one of the guys in our group the last bits of Loki before the Vaulting and, it wasn't fun. It was just endless Defences... not even exactly hard, just long.

And this is with optimized farming builds from end-game, it'll likely take people that have put less into the game longer.

It does not make Vauban Prime attractive to players.

And the cost is directly linked to the point at hand - it being 2-3 times the cost, means it takes 2-3 times as long to get its requirements.

 - Put it this way (as I've stated before) - I would rather do work, than get Vauban Prime, because it's more fun than the grind required.

[(XBOX)Rey Za BurreI]

Edited May 19, 2016 by (XB1)Rey Za BurreI

[Get_Singed]

Every one of those little triangular spike things on his arms and chest is a Nitain.

[BradTRN]

Did my meme post get removed?

[Liminal]

1 hour ago, TheBrsrkr said:

And no, the power farming didn't come into place because of the grind, it was the exact opposite. 

I disagree entirely. There will always be power farmers, but the less rewarding regular gameplay becomes, the more people sign up for draco/hieracon/whatever the cool kids do these days. Players will always find the easiest route to get what they want, path of least resistance and all that, it's unavoidable ... but maybe if most people didn't feel the grind was so aggravating, maybe there would be less powerfarmers. And that is WF's biggest problem in my opinion: "playing for fun" gives you barely any results while the mindless grind is quite profitable.

Also, I'd never blame the playerbase for anything (except for not voicing their concerns): the number one rule of every single business is everything is your fault. Lots of people are powerfarming in your game and you don't want them to? Find out why and fix it. They found a new unintended way to farm? Fix it. Don't jury rig it, fix the damn thing. "Competing" or "arguing" with the customer leads to even more issues, and you are the one who can change stuff, not them. Failing to understand your customer is a serious problem.
 

[Raniu]

DE thought of an idea of making Vauban Prime drop from alerts just like regular Vauban does. Is it really such a big deal? Booben P still seems to be easier to obtain than his regular version.

Anyway, if one only did like 25% of all capture/deception nitain alerts there were then they'd have like 40 nitain extracts sticked up :P

No need to have something at the very instant, just be patient and take your time collecting dem nitains ^^

[(PSN)Silverback73]

If The business model isn't successful, then the game ceases to exist.

Parts of the game will be hard and/or time consuming out of necessity.

Invest time.  Or invest money.  Or both.

You can always quit.

But please try to educate yourself on business models like DE uses before decrying them as sinister Tyrants that oppress, manipulate and torture the masses out of greed.

[-BM-Mitz]

I skip all long nitain alerts I see and play casually and STILL got ~100 since the last time I used them for something.

At this point I'm just standing back looking at the salty people who don't play the game and complain they can't instantly make this as a result.

I do understand the frustration but it's still kind of funny to me.

PS: Vauban Prime doesn't have GOLD parts, it's just gold-painted oxium.

[(XBOX)Rey Za BurreI]

9 minutes ago, Raniu said:

DE thought of an idea of making Vauban Prime drop from alerts just like regular Vauban does. Is it really such a big deal? Booben P still seems to be easier to obtain than his regular version.

Anyway, if one only did like 25% of all capture/deception nitain alerts there were then they'd have like 40 nitain extracts sticked up :P

No need to have something at the very instant, just be patient and take your time collecting dem nitains ^^

Yes it is a big deal. That was the problem with the regular vauban. It's even worse since you have to farm the frames, then farm the incredible amount of resources to build the frame, which with nitain makes it extremely longer, and then you have to wait 3 days in order for the frame to finish(if you don't rush). In order to obtain nitain, you have to be online during the alert. Sorry, but some people actually have lives. They can't sit around and wait for a nitain alert that drops a few times within a day. 

[Liminal]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

If The business model isn't successful, then the game ceases to exist.

Indeed. But they've been quite successful so far: the game has grown immensely and DE even got bought by another company. Nobody buys a dying company (they often wait until they are completely dead).

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Parts of the game will be hard and/or time consuming out of necessity.

Yes, that's undeniable. Sadly we don't have "hard" anywhere in WF, but we do have "time consuming", which was doing mostly fine until Sibear and Vauban Prime raised the stakes for no apparent reason to the average player.

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Invest time.  Or invest money.  Or both.

Yes, nobody is arguing that. In fact even those complaining about Vauban Prime invested a lot of time before he came out, some even invested a lot of money in addition to that. (I'd say spend though, we're not expecting to get a return on WF).

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

You can always quit.

Completely irrelevant to the point at hand, a player who quits gives no feedback, which is what we are doing. Players who dislike this resource thing don't want to quit, they want to (at least) go back to the way things were before.

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

But please try to educate yourself on business models like DE uses before decrying them as sinister Tyrants that oppress, manipulate and torture the masses out of greed.

Nah, they are not tyrants nor oppressors, they simply seem not to fully understand their player base.

[(XBOX)Rey Za BurreI]

6 minutes ago, Major_Phantom said:

I skip all long nitain alerts I see and play casually and STILL got ~100 since the last time I used them for something.

At this point I'm just standing back looking at the salty people who don't play the game and complain they can't instantly make this as a result.

I do understand the frustration but it's still kind of funny to me.

PS: Vauban Prime doesn't have GOLD parts, it's just gold-painted oxium.

Plz tell me you're joking? Just because you don't have a life, doesn't mean other people don't. Mind not all people have time in their days to wait on an alert. 

[Get_Singed]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Rey Za BurreI said:

Yes it is a big deal. That was the problem with the regular vauban. It's even worse since you have to farm the frames, then farm the incredible amount of resources to build the frame, which with nitain makes it extremely longer, and then you have to wait 3 days in order for the frame to finish(if you don't rush). In order to obtain nitain, you have to be online during the alert. Sorry, but some people actually have lives. They can't sit around and wait for a nitain alert that drops a few times within a day. 

You can either wait or you can use some of that money you should be earning in your "life" to avoid waiting and get it now. You don't have to earn all that Nitain. They generously gave you an option that allows you to not get all that Nitain. Take it or leave it. Don't complain.

[TheBrsrkr]

6 minutes ago, The_Doc said:

I disagree entirely. There will always be power farmers, but the less rewarding regular gameplay becomes, the more people sign up for draco/hieracon/whatever the cool kids do these days. Players will always find the easiest route to get what they want, path of least resistance and all that, it's unavoidable ... but maybe if most people didn't feel the grind was so aggravating, maybe there would be less powerfarmers. And that is WF's biggest problem in my opinion: "playing for fun" gives you barely any results while the mindless grind is quite profitable.

The power farmers came first with corrupted mods. That the players asked for. They grinded and grinded and grinded, and there was nothing to do with their loot. So the standard of grinding is raised to suit the grinding they have done. You do not balance for the middle of a spectrum,  you balance for the top. And make no mistake, less aggravating grind will only lead to less power farmers because it will be even easier for the power farmers to get ridiculous amounts of loot, which doesn't solve anything. Players asked for more powerful weapons and frames, they got more powerful weapons and frames. Players asked for easier grind, they got it. But now the pendulum swings back, and DE needs to do something about all the grind they have grinded, and suddenly it's a problem? No. Too late. 

Did people come to these very forums to talk about the future of the game as this trend continued? Yes! Yes they did. What were they met with? Complaints. Whine. Vitriol. Nothing but piles and piles of people incessantly screaming that things were just fine the way they were, just as they do now. When Mesa was lootbotting the entire level, everything was fine. When Viver and EGate farming was rampant in the game, everything was fine. When Saryn could speed run through a level hitting nothing but 4 and coptering through maps, everything was fine. When Hydroid and Nekros were the only ones able to participate in farming matches, everything was fine. Well, now that the game has moved up to the spot where you're expected to do all of the things you ended up doing over and over and over before, everything should be fine. This is what the playerbase did. This is what the playerbase asked for. Let it not be said that DE does not listen to what its player base wants. 

[torint_man]

Not from me, got it from this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/4jz0li/unpopular_opinion_while_unexpected_i_dont_see/

I agree with his sentiments and wish to share it here.

I know there's a huge uproar in the community because of Vauban's building costs but personally, I don't necessarily see anything wrong with it. I know a lot of people (myself included) don't have the necessary components to build him even if they acquired all the parts, but isn't that sort of the point of a Prime Access? I don't see any justifiable reason as to why everybody should be able to own Vauban the same day (or even before) the people who paid $80 for his PA should have him. Yes, the farming of resources sucks. Yes, they're harder to acquire than some others. But you don't need Vauban right this second. You want Vauban right this second. How would you feel if you spent $80 on the newest PA and then everybody in your clan is running around with the exact same thing you spent a hefty amount of IRL money on? I've seen people saying DE is basically forcing you to buy it. Nobody is forcing your hand to buy anything. It might take a week (or more) to get all the necessary components but hell, by that time his price will have gone way down from the 550ish that it's currently going for on PS4, and it will give you plenty of time to farm it if you don't want to buy it from trade.

tl;dr while the crafting component situation sucks, it's nothing that can't be overcome by putting some time into getting the parts. There has to be something to incentivise buying Prime Access or nobody would if it was so easy to acquire without it

[-BM-Mitz]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Rey Za BurreI said:

Plz tell me you're joking? Just because you don't have a life, doesn't mean other people don't. Mind not all people have time in their days to wait on an alert. 

I have a life mind you, which is why I find the situation stupid. it's not about waiting for alerts either, but I'm not gonna have this conversation with someone with so clearly high levels of salt in their system.

[(XBOX)Rey Za BurreI]

6 minutes ago, Reitrahc said:

You can either wait or you can use some of that money you should be earning in your "life" to avoid waiting and get it now. You don't have to earn all that Nitain. They generously gave you an option that allows you to not get all that Nitain. Take it or leave it. Don't complain.

I'm not spending $80 on a F2P for farmable items and some discounted plat to "justify" the price. That's just not happening, I don't even spend $50 on most season passes. I'm damn sure not spending $80- $140 on digital items. Get your priorities straight lol. Anyways the cost of nitain for Vauban is ridiculous for a resource that only drops a few times within a day.

Edited May 19, 2016 by (XB1)Rey Za BurreI

[Get_Singed]

Just now, (XB1)Rey Za BurreI said:

I'm not spending $80 on a F2P for farmable items and some discounted plat to "justify" the price. That's just not happening, I don't even spend $50 on most season passes. I'm damn sure not spending $80- $140 on digital items. Get your priorities straight lol. 

Then stop complaining that you have to actually do something to get what you want. If it's not worth the money and it's not worth your time just don't get it. If it's worth your time spend your time getting it. If it's worth your money spend your money getting it. It's that simple.

[(XBOX)Rey Za BurreI]

4 minutes ago, Major_Phantom said:

I have a life mind you, which is why I find the situation stupid. it's not about waiting for alerts either, but I'm not gonna have this conversation with someone with so clearly high levels of salt in their system.

You don't even have an argument. Mind pausing those fingers of yours.