Lore questions about Valk i really need help with, read everything if you can

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

35 minutes ago, folklore504 said:

https://youtu.be/o6Sr3c_cXIo?t=51m25s

Here is a link to the final mission in the new strange where it occurs.  Apologies for the video not being just dialogue from the section. 

I won't be able to watch it right now, terrible connection, but I'll take it on good faith with the ordis thing, I think I do remember maybe seeing chroma with the corpus...thank you

[Kaiser_Suoh]

Lore about Valkyr is confusing.

Her powers looks like a tortured soul, but that is after Alad V experiments.

So, Valkyr Prime (who dont knew ALad V in Orokin age) must have other powers (same name, but diferent)

[SilvaDreams]

1 hour ago, Kaiser_Suoh said:

Lore about Valkyr is confusing.

Her powers looks like a tortured soul, but that is after Alad V experiments.

So, Valkyr Prime (who dont knew ALad V in Orokin age) must have other powers (same name, but diferent)

Have you thought any on her name before? Valkyr ... Or Valkyrie. A female warrior for the heavens of the vikings whom were well know for their Berserkers who worked themselves into a raging fury and where seemingly impossible to kill.

[arch111]

5 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

The weird thing is...Vauban prime and his trailer show the corpus...with who I assume to be Ballas talking in the back ground (i havnt caught up on all of that story, I know who he is, just not the "why" of him being the one who speaks)

I do not think any prime has been shown in any other time period before the "awakening". The infested in the Saryn video are post awakening infested (i know, it sounds silly, but hear me out). Those infested are composed of grineer, corpus, and infested Ancients, as well as boilers and broodmothers who are very new. I can only imagine the grineer at this time were not a developed military, nor the corpus an organization (we do not know). At the very least, when the orokin were around, the infested were a problem for them too, so in the video, you would expect to see a little bit of a different crowd if it was Orokin era. So I do not think Saryn primes trailer took place in any other time period, and it confuses me as to why people would want to say Vauban or the corpus have to be Orokin era in the video either. Ballad talking is just to add to confusion it seems ~I'm not saying Saryn wasn't created to fight the infested, she was, but Vauban most likely wasn't created  to fight the corpus themselves.

Ballas seems to be the father of the warframe project. And the Primes were all made by the Orokin.

Therefore,  Vauban and Saryn trailers were from long ago.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

21 minutes ago, arch111 said:

Ballas seems to be the father of the warframe project. And the Primes were all made by the Orokin.

Therefore,  Vauban and Saryn trailers were from long ago.

Uhm...the primes are being shown fighting enemies that exist right now (current infested, current corpus). Warframe has a timeline. Infested boilers and broodmothers were created by mutalist Alad v, who is a character post awakening, after the fall of the orokin. These creatures being in saryn video mean that her video is new, not old. Bursa are a new enemy, developed by nef anyo, who only just got promoted, he was a glorified corpus crewman post awakening, after the fall of the empire. Vauban is shown fighting a bursa. His video is not old either. The conflict in our two ideas, is that for me, these two factions were not like this back when the empire was around, if the corpus even existed, they are full of new enemies that have set and confirmed times when they were created that take place well after the orokin are long gone. That's my spill.

Edited May 20, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Infested existed of course

[SilvaDreams]

32 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Uhm...the primes are being shown fighting enemies that exist right now (current infested, current corpus). Warframe has a timeline. Infested boilers and broodmothers were created by mutalist Alad v, who is a character post awakening, after the fall of the orokin. These creatures being in saryn video mean that her video is new, not old. Bursa are a new enemy, developed by nef anyo, who only just got promoted, he was a glorified corpus crewman post awakening, after the fall of the empire. Vauban is shown fighting a bursa. His video is not old either. The conflict in our two ideas, is that for me, these two factions were not like this back when the empire was around, if the corpus even existed, they are full of new enemies that have set and confirmed times when they were created that take place well after the orokin are long gone. That's my spill.

Correct. While we do hear Ballas talking about the frames it is more of a play back of when he was likely introducing them to the council as his latest creation.

[arch111]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Uhm...the primes are being shown fighting enemies that exist right now (current infested, current corpus). Warframe has a timeline. Infested boilers and broodmothers were created by mutalist Alad v, who is a character post awakening, after the fall of the orokin. These creatures being in saryn video mean that her video is new, not old. Bursa are a new enemy, developed by nef anyo, who only just got promoted, he was a glorified corpus crewman post awakening, after the fall of the empire. Vauban is shown fighting a bursa. His video is not old either. The conflict in our two ideas, is that for me, these two factions were not like this back when the empire was around, if the corpus even existed, they are full of new enemies that have set and confirmed times when they were created that take place well after the orokin are long gone. That's my spill.

Sigh* I know. Warframes boat is so full of holes it floats on sheer willpower.

why "new" units exist in the trailers? Take this. They have been rediscovered and remade, like the Corpus have been doing since the Collapse.

Or DE messed up again :/

See, there was time when Earth was Lost, Ballas remembers it's glory. It is not the case today, the Grineer live there in lush giant forrests.

Any reclamation was done prior to the Great Plague and that broke out after the Excecutors Assassination. Ballas and the Orokin either remained active long after the Collapse - fighting Lotus and the Infestation - or Saryn's creation was after the outbreak, but before the Collapse. 

Likewise the industrialists now knows as Corpus, existed in the Orokin Age. They ware not called Corpus (a term for Family that Corpus took for their entire Faction. Fitting for a mafia-style group of moneygrabbers, no?) but built the tech for the Orokin War.

Timeline,  the Crewman Project was proposed before the Sentients were sent to Tau. I imagine it was repurposed by other groups, and later turned into uniforms when Corpus became a cult of Profit.

Grineer being infested in Orokin times can be explained that they too existed back then. They made clone Grineer-soldiers because they needed soldiers in the Old War.

There is no reason their armor and helmets can't look the same way they did i  the War either.

- If what we see is indeed contemporary,  then Ballas speech is just an echo recorded long ago for the Excecutors.

Pointless in this case. Poetic, but pointless.

The timeline when lining up all Lore we have is VERY long. Human lifespans were centuries,  the trip to Tau, the construction of the Towers,  The Moon, the terraforming of the planets - all amount to milennia.

[SilvaDreams]

9 minutes ago, arch111 said:

Sigh* I know. Warframes boat is so full of holes it floats on sheer willpower.

why "new" units exist in the trailers? Take this. They have been rediscovered and remade, like the Corpus have been doing since the Collapse.

Or DE messed up again :/

See, there was time when Earth was Lost, Ballas remembers it's glory. It is not the case today, the Grineer live there in lush giant forrests.

Any reclamation was done prior to the Great Plague and that broke out after the Excecutors Assassination. Ballas and the Orokin either remained active long after the Collapse - fighting Lotus and the Infestation - or Saryn's creation was after the outbreak, but before the Collapse. 

Likewise the industrialists now knows as Corpus, existed in the Orokin Age. They ware not called Corpus (a term for Family that Corpus took for their entire Faction. Fitting for a mafia-style group of moneygrabbers, no?) but built the tech for the Orokin War.

Timeline,  the Crewman Project was proposed before the Sentients were sent to Tau. I imagine it was repurposed by other groups, and later turned into uniforms when Corpus became a cult of Profit.

Grineer being infested in Orokin times can be explained that they too existed back then. They made clone Grineer-soldiers because they needed soldiers in the Old War.

There is no reason their armor and helmets can't look the same way they did i  the War either.

- If what we see is indeed contemporary,  then Ballas speech is just an echo recorded long ago for the Excecutors.

Pointless in this case. Poetic, but pointless.

The timeline when lining up all Lore we have is VERY long. Human lifespans were centuries,  the trip to Tau, the construction of the Towers,  The Moon, the terraforming of the planets - all amount to milennia.

Warframe boat is air tight, people just see holes because they fail to see obvious connections or stick their fingers in their ears and go "LALALA!!! Can't hear you!"

If you read my post above your entire argument dies,Ballas likely died long ago. We are just hearing a recording and we are seeing the shiny prime at work Now.

[arch111]

2 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said:

Warframe boat is air tight, people just see holes because they fail to see obvious connections or stick their fingers in their ears and go "LALALA!!! Can't hear you!"

If you read my post above your entire argument dies,Ballas likely died long ago. We are just hearing a recording and we are seeing the shiny prime at work Now.

You missed my point. Ballas created the Warframes after Margulis died. He built them by purpose and design - before Second Dream.

In no way have I suggested Ballas is alive. He could be if that suits the storyline, but I am doubtful what he would contribute.

And airtight?  There are enough retcons and ouright contradictions and placeholders that there can't be a whole picture yet.

We are still speculating about all of it.

LOTUS sent the Tenno into Cryo. And yet in the Healer Synthesis a Tenno shows up and kills the Infested on Mars. So that is a possible lie.

The Earth is STILL a ruined world where the Grineer live in the description.  Only it is not. It is a green forrestplanet.

Stalker said he is not a Tenno. Yet other Tenno join him now,  and he uses Void powers.

Orokin failed to understand the Hellspace that is Void. But they built massive ships in there. Err ... how?

Water tight? Pfft.

[SilvaDreams]

51 minutes ago, arch111 said:

You missed my point. Ballas created the Warframes after Margulis died. He built them by purpose and design - before Second Dream.

In no way have I suggested Ballas is alive. He could be if that suits the storyline, but I am doubtful what he would contribute.

And airtight?  There are enough retcons and ouright contradictions and placeholders that there can't be a whole picture yet.

We are still speculating about all of it.

LOTUS sent the Tenno into Cryo. And yet in the Healer Synthesis a Tenno shows up and kills the Infested on Mars. So that is a possible lie.

The Earth is STILL a ruined world where the Grineer live in the description.  Only it is not. It is a green forrestplanet.

Stalker said he is not a Tenno. Yet other Tenno join him now,  and he uses Void powers.

Orokin failed to understand the Hellspace that is Void. But they built massive ships in there. Err ... how?

Water tight? Pfft.

I hear people claim there are retcons... But never any proof. So please find a few because none of the lore has changed.

[SilentMobius]

15 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

I have not had a chance to use the gersimi skin, if it does have different visuals for hysteria, that answers half to allow all my questions right there.

And Chroma fits in on this whole, "lore is weird after second dream" too...people think frames cannot function without operators, but chroma breaks this, or his operator is in hiding...or something else.

The language that "Chroma" was repeating was identical to the linguistic style of the not-yet-awake Hunhow and the "New Strange" quest came out shortly before Natah...

I think the implication is pretty obvious that Chroma-without-an-operator was being controlled by the Sentients there in a bid to find-and-free Hunhow. I mean the mission goes to great lengthes to discuss what force is domination the Warframe.

Here are comparison images for the post-corpus and Gersemi Hysteria FX

[arch111]

53 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said:

I hear people claim there are retcons... But never any proof. So please find a few because none of the lore has changed.

Depend on what you mean. Since alot in the game is a wip there have allways been placeholders.

[SilvaDreams]

Just now, arch111 said:

Depend on what you mean. Since alot in the game is a wip there have allways been placeholders.

That is like claiming you have part of a puzzle done and seeing a boat.... But it's a picture of the desert.

Sometimes you just have to wait for the pieces to come together to see things properly.

And story wise that is what we have to do, I mean people use to speculate we were some goo or energy for the longest time yet the lore pointed to us being children.

[SilentMobius]

5 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said:

That is like claiming you have part of a puzzle done and seeing a boat.... But it's a picture of the desert.

Sometimes you just have to wait for the pieces to come together to see things properly.

And story wise that is what we have to do, I mean people use to speculate we were some goo or energy for the longest time yet the lore pointed to us being children.

To be fair (and I agree with the majority of what you're saying) all the Ember prime codex suggested is that some Tenno were at some point children on the Zariman, there was no reason to assume that any Tenno was still a child from just that data.

[SilvaDreams]

3 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

To be fair (and I agree with the majority of what you're saying) all the Ember prime codex suggested is that some Tenno were at some point children on the Zariman, there was no reason to assume that any Tenno was still a child from just that data.

True, I was honestly shocked when it was revealed we were children, I was expecting an adult myself.

But the rest I had already concluded before hand when we first translated the tenno text that popped up on the loading screen as it confirmed what I had suspected.

[arch111]

52 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said:

True, I was honestly shocked when it was revealed we were children, I was expecting an adult myself.

But the rest I had already concluded before hand when we first translated the tenno text that popped up on the loading screen as it confirmed what I had suspected.

Oh believe me I had figured out most long before Second Dream.

It is when DE hints and teases us that I get annoyed. Sure Lorehunts were fun a year ago. Now though, I just want to know.

Ballas, Margulis, The Kuria, the Queens, Sentients, Crewmen, Guardians,  Lorists, Dexx, Cephalons, Gholems all of this i am waiting for more on.

And then there's the big things like changing Hayden Tenno to 10-0. I mean ... was that really an improvement? 

[SilvaDreams]

9 minutes ago, arch111 said:

Oh believe me I had figured out most long before Second Dream.

It is when DE hints and teases us that I get annoyed. Sure Lorehunts were fun a year ago. Now though, I just want to know.

Ballas, Margulis, The Kuria, the Queens, Sentients, Crewmen, Guardians,  Lorists, Dexx, Cephalons, Gholems all of this i am waiting for more on.

And then there's the big things like changing Hayden Tenno to 10-0. I mean ... was that really an improvement? 

Well there was no link to Dark Sector, that game wasn't even what they wanted. But when a studio owns you you are kinda stuck doing what they want.

So they just left subtle context hints to their previous work.

[Helch0rn]

18 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

DE originally said that pre-Corpus Valkyr would be very,.very different. However, they retracted this when they released Gersemi, and claimed that Alad V only changed Valkyr's personality

I'm gonna call BS on that until you provide any source

 

[SilentMobius]

2 hours ago, SilvaDreams said:

True, I was honestly shocked when it was revealed we were children, I was expecting an adult myself.

But the rest I had already concluded before hand when we first translated the tenno text that popped up on the loading screen as it confirmed what I had suspected.

Yes, I remember. Obviously the "Remote Tenno" Interpretation of that text was a likely outcome, I still feel it was far from definitive at that point though.

I still want some definitive interpretation for Valkry/Limbo/Mesa/Chroma post-Second Dream, I mean It's easy enough to headcanon a variety of reasons why the stories still apply even after the Second Dream reveal, but It really annoys me that we still don't have a new "Party Line" on those events. After the Second Dream the first thing my Tenno would have done is ask the Lotus "There were many things you could have said during the Gradivus Dilemma, why did you use those exact words? What were we actually fighting for there?" Similar questions about the other Warframe's

We really need a retrospective, even just in codex-text from the Lotus about those missions.

[SilvaDreams]

4 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

Yes, I remember. Obviously the "Remote Tenno" Interpretation of that text was a likely outcome, I still feel it was far from definitive at that point though.

I still want some definitive interpretation for Valkry/Limbo/Mesa/Chroma post-Second Dream, I mean It's easy enough to headcanon a variety of reasons why the stories still apply even after the Second Dream reveal, but It really annoys me that we still don't have a new "Party Line" on those events. After the Second Dream the first thing my Tenno would have done is ask the Lotus "There were many things you could have said during the Gradivus Dilemma, why did you use those exact words? What were we actually fighting for there?" Similar questions about the other Warframe's

We really need a retrospective, even just in codex-text from the Lotus about those missions.

I'll have to look into that once I get home, having a mind blank at the moment.

But before the second dream space mom was doing her best not to, in ordus' words, Lift the veil.

[SilentMobius]

11 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said:

I'll have to look into that once I get home, having a mind blank at the moment.

But before the second dream space mom was doing her best not to, in ordus' words, Lift the veil.

Oh indeed, It's just that the big moral comparison there was the "Lives of captured Tenno" vs "The lives and freedom of colonists" which is why we really need clarity on how bad things can get for a Tenno when people mess with a Warframe, I mean we desynchronize pretty easily in combat. We those Tenno under any actual risk? Were we really fighting just to recover the Warframes. Did the "Vivisection" of that one Valkyr Warframe drive that one Tenno mad, or did something else happen?

Edited May 20, 2016 by SilentMobius

[SilvaDreams]

14 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

Oh indeed, It's just that the big moral comparison there was the "Lives of captured Tenno" vs "The lives and freedom of colonists" which is why we really need clarity on how bad things can get for a Tenno when people mess with a Warframe, I mean we desynchronize pretty easily in combat. We those Tenno under any actual risk? Were we really fighting just to recover the Warframes. Did the "Vivisection" of that one Valkyr Warframe drive that one Tenno mad, or did something else happen?

Well in the case of the captured Tenno it's more a matter that Alad had managed to not only bypass whatever safety measures the frames have but he was using them to make proxies meaning he may learn much worse things.

After all according to Vor the tenno seemed to break down when they opened us up, a self destruct to keep Orokin secrets I imaging. So god only knows what it was like being unable to break the connection when Alad would cut a frame up, it likely did drive the operator insane or killed them.

[arch111]

22 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

Oh indeed, It's just that the big moral comparison there was the "Lives of captured Tenno" vs "The lives and freedom of colonists" which is why we really need clarity on how bad things can get for a Tenno when people mess with a Warframe, I mean we desynchronize pretty easily in combat. We those Tenno under any actual risk? Were we really fighting just to recover the Warframes. Did the "Vivisection" of that one Valkyr Warframe drive that one Tenno mad, or did something else happen?

This is conjunction with the warfame breaking War, are the real questions.

It is interesting to me what plot DE have for Stalker and the Accolytes. If they are awakened Tenno, then why do they join the one hunting us? Further more, if we would all join him, would he forgive us?

Since I see the Tenno as the symbiosis if Operator and warframe (cephalon inside maby), and the still unanswered ORO, there are still many questions. 

[SilvaDreams]

1 minute ago, arch111 said:

This is conjunction with the warfame breaking War, are the real questions.

It is interesting to me what plot DE have for Stalker and the Accolytes. If they are awakened Tenno, then why do they join the one hunting us? Further more, if we would all join him, would he forgive us?

Since I see the Tenno as the symbiosis if Operator and warframe (cephalon inside maby), and the still unanswered ORO, there are still many questions. 

Well we also have to question if they are even Tenno controlled and not being controlled by Hunhow much like the Stalker.

[tnccs215]

I'd like to add something:

Nova Prime.

Nova Prime proved that primed technology isn't exclusively from the orokin empire. That is, I believe that DE would be smart to make a Primed Valkyr (like Nova), instead of a Prime Valkyr. A frame imbued with orokin tech, instead of originated from the orokin empire. It would prevent a lot of plotholes.

Personally, I think Gersemi Valkyr shouldn't have been a skin, but instead a standalone frame, with her own abilities that, though different from Valkyr's, make it obvious that Valkyr's power are traumatized versions of Gersemi's.

I think it would make much more sense lorewise, because right now,is like every Valkyr in existence was used in the Zanuka Project- a project that, we know, is rather recent- and that isn't very logical.