The Prime Vault is a bad idea (feel bad for new players)

[Hayabusa97]

Seriously, the Prime drop table in the derelict is too small. The only reason nowadays to go into the Derelict is for the Vaults which contain the (quite formidable) Corrupted Mods.

[Leavith]

57 minutes ago, K0bra said:

Hello Community

To clear things up at the beginning.I have all the stuff and im MR22.So its not that im jealous on that stuff or whatever.Im not affected by this and profit more from it but ......

After more and more Primes (Frames,weapons,stuff) going into the vault then more and more i feel really bad for the newer players.

The Puppies get their first frames run around enjoy their weapons and get used to some of this.Later they want to get the Prime Version of their frame,weapon,stuff  (natural evolution when playing a game)to just realize its unobtainable for them.Problem is these frames and their Prime variants are "WARFRAME" more like the newer ones ever can be.

Alot of people like Ember.She is easy to get and makes alot of fun.Try to get her Prime Variant today guys. 1000 platinum? Ridicolous !

Rhino,Mag,Frost,Loki,next will be Nyx.So much iconic frames that make warframe to warframe.Happily some prime weapons cant come in the Prime Vault.

Then people will say they all come back sooner or later.Thats true but how long have all the people wait for it?Years?Sorry thats ridicolous.

Try to watch from their perspective.Everyone wants shiny stuff but they have to be ultra patience or spend loads of real money to get it.

Then the horrendous amounts of crafting materials for them for newer stuff.When this continues there will be a time that all cheaper (crating materials) frames are away and only high crafting material cost frames remain.

A game should be fun and not an annoying work.

I really can understand alot of disappointment and anger from their side.This is not fair anymore.

What do you think guys?Do i feel wrong here?

 

just some ideas I want to address but I am gonna start it off with the Title

Your title is the Prime Vault is a BAD idea and is UNFAIR. Well this in fact is not true regarding the unfair part as if a Prime comes in another one leaves into the prime vault and is later release at another time this is in fact not unfair because it works of the logic of trade in and trade out. Now regarding the bad part that is also not true because it works well it helps maintain the Void reward more concentrated and less chaotic.

OF course all of this is true right now....only because is right now. I believe DE should not make this a permanent solution because of the coming issue their will be sooner or later regarding the Prime vaults mainly on the fact as new prime come in and older ones are vaulted it will increase the time frame of the latest vaulted prime returning to be seen by the community including the new players. I am sure you don't need an example of what I am saying.

Well now on the on the topic of 1000 plat...That's the community fault as we all get outrages on prices of things we sell and we also get crazy on the things we buy example by accepting to buy a mod like buzz kill for 500 plat your basically giving the idea that the mod is worth 500 plat not the fact that your urgency for that mod and the mods cost is worth to you 500 plat.I know somewhere along the lines their is a supply and demand situation here as well as stuff regarding cost but we really get outrages on this topic.

Now on the topic of crafting materials I know how you may feel on this is strange how we have this high cost for making the parts or making the weapon ,but we the players created this situation. Look at it this way your a veteran player how many forma do you have? most gloat and exaggerate saying 1000 or over 9000 .but that is just an example forma used to be part of some weapons blueprint but they are no longer because of how much people have stockpile on them. TO explain for DE to make a weapon or warframe more meaningful to veteran player or in other words for DE to make this things not so easy to obtain because of the large stockpile veterans already have of materials they introduce new materials. In addition to introducing new materials they also introduce large cost for materials to deplete the large stockpile veterans have. I theories that sooner or later we will return to normal cost when the content that is being released is no longer intended for end game.

Of and that ice hammer I can see why they did that remember how people would farm excavation for large number of R5 Core well that is why the ice hammer was large at cost a weapon intended for end game that only people who have accumulated materials for overly repetitive action can now waste those resource. Is not like the ice hammer is huge buff of an impact but it is a good way to get rid of the large amunt of cryo that players have accumulated.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Leavith

[TyberV]

The purpose of vaulting has nothing to do with game play. It only exists as gimmick so DE can sell platinum.

[(PSN)I_AM_FIRED_UP]

45 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Player driven economy. You should be lucky you're even allowed to trade for her parts, at all. Most game developers would have just removed them.

I do agree, however, that the Prime Vault is a bad idea. When you have derelict missions with next to nothing in them, random tower missions with tons of spots that you could stick the new drops, and a player base that's getting sick of everything being hidden behind a 20 minute survival wall... it makes very little sense why they're vaulting anything except for arbitrary rarity.

... you do realize that they benefit from making ember p or vaulted p tradeable

[Chipputer]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)I_AM_FIRED_UP said:

... you do realize that they benefit from making ember p or vaulted p tradeable

Did I say they didn't?

I said most developers would have just removed them.

[(PSN)I_AM_FIRED_UP]

1 minute ago, Chipputer said:

Did I say they didn't?

I said most developers would have just removed them.

Well those developers must be dumb. Thats like a gold egg laying hen right there. Anways I think vaulting primes ae a bad idea why not just make t5 or something

Edited May 20, 2016 by (PS4)I_AM_FIRED_UP

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

the whole prime vault deal shouldn't be a thing and is really just a way for them to make money. I would support it in the short term if they were actually working on the drop tables at the same time because it's ridiculous to do a t1 anything mission just to be rewarded with a... GASP.. t1 key lol but they have to remove those prime parts.. uh huh.

[Eric1738]

Agreed, especially when old frames only returns for a brief period of time. I honestly dont understand why Frost Prime is still vaulted.

Also I think current model is pretty bad for game economy. Check recent Ember p price, it's pretty ridiculous. And we almost know for sure it will keep rising for like another 6 months. At that point new players cant afford it at all, it will become a tool for speculators and greedy traders.

[AM-Bunny]

Not having a place for new Prime Parts isn't the only cause for The Vault's existence. 

Why are Prime Access packages only available for a limited time? Why not keep them all permanently available so that anyone can buy Targis Prime Armour whenever they want? It's to exert pressure on buyers. It's no different with the Prime Vault. Players are pressured into spending cash on the packages while they're available, and to spend time in-game farming the items before they vanish.

You make it sound as though it's an unintended consequence when it's a very intentional strategy.

That being said, is it really that important for new players to have access to every Prime Warframe? The experience is 99% the same while playing with the vanilla version, save for a few minor stat changes that are a small convenience at best. Basically, they're just a glorified cosmetic -- it's not as if the enjoyment of the entire game hinges on having them, in my opinion.

[5HV3N]

"vault is but a temporary solution"

It's not ok.
It never was.
And what is most depressing, is that players are too occupied with scalping newer players from their plat to even try to acknowledge a problem.

 

"patience tenno, you can make enough plat by trading to afford those items"
"open your wallet teno, GIVE UNTO THE VOID"
"you entitled <SLUR>, you want everything fast and cheap?!"
...
Sickening.
Leeches.
Bloody worms.
 I honestly believed DE had set a 1k pricetag as safety net, an treshold which triggers vault opening for this item because supply is clearly drying out... I was wrong. It was christmas, a holiday well known as influx of cash for most compulsive breed of buyers: kids/teenagers. As well as more forgiveness for self-indulging for older ones. 

I understand, greedy milk poisoning is common occurrence. And long term players are increasingly detached from reality. Newsflash: 1k platinum costs 12.50$. And that is on 75% discount.

Look at this new player. He chose to play this game. He chose to keep playing this game despite knowing that all WF has to offer is few fancy moves, impressive arsenal and constant banging head against droptables (perspective on this matter is pretty limited for WF's forum point of view, but there is really narrow group of people who can call this entertainment after spending few hours in game. I failed to draw any of my friends into this game. They all said the same: I'm not stupid enough to do it). And so he continues to play with his beloved ember. He saw that TOTALY BADASS flaming mohawk on wiki, and decided it's time to upgrade to prime. And hears over 50$ worth of non-discounted plat pricetag.
Because "droptables are too dilluted so this old gear had to be rolled back".
At this point all boils down to wether skinner box worked or no. Because this game is no longer fun for that person. He'll either open his wallet, give up on hopes of owning this piece of gear or walk away from game completely. One way or another, warframe becomes less of a fun for that indivitual.

And people are ok with this. Because they can make some easy phat plat, just because they were here longer and didn't get rid of exes parts... As to talk about entitlement...

 I ceased to be part of it. I made some healthy profit off mag and rhino vaulting(was on burnout break during ember)...
But it wasn't worth it.
"I don't have 200. All I have is 186p... Would that be ok?"
heartbreaking.
And you can't tell him "well, if my price is to steep for you, you're welcome to go and battle rng over it"
I tend to remember, those are other people, not some random internet spirits. They're here to have fun too you know, and we all know that most of fun here comes from obtaining and owning. 
So i sold all my loki, wyrm, bo parts to speculators(every single one of them already had this item. I know. I checked. Out of curiosity). "worthless" leftovers are waiting to be ducated when I'll be short. Hopefully baro will have something good today.

And droptable dillution... This circus lasts long enough, drop the act. Not only derelict is empty, void itself could house most of that stuff with it's almost barren A and B rotations. It's all smokes and mirrors, and it's not a mystery what lurks behind it. They may have been some doubts 6 months ago, but at this point this discussion is pointless. And I'm not mad. What they were supposed to do? Call it by it's name?

Artificial rarity is ok. In loot game exclusive stuff makes you feel good about yourself. But event stuff is for that. Not old stuff that is more or less suddenly rolled back. indefinetly.
It's disgusting.
And cheap.

No constructive feedback? No. I hope that mess will be somehow sorted out in new starchart. I am well aware that vault is to stay, but... Well, man got to believe in something. So I chose to believe that vault will become more humane.

Edited May 20, 2016 by 5HV3N

[Kaiser_Suoh]

I claim new void missions (4+), new rotations and "vaulted" primes in there.

[jinxeverything]

So you want everything to be handed to everyone in a free to play game with zero effort and maybe day one of joining the game or when the new item introduced to the game?

If DE do something like that and nobody buys plats or PA  this game would have died along time ago, yes i admit evil RNG is evil for not letting me have everything on my first Void key usage but if I do get what I want will I stop going into the Void? yes, why? no point in going there anymore :/

You have few options:

• Farm the items before they are going away.
• Ask DE to turn this game from F2P model to P2P (pay tp play) or buy to play game, this way it will be less RNG driven, more like how Borderlands are with loots.
• IF others were too lazy to farm for something in the Void then that'd their fault (even new players can go there they just need hand holding).
• Time for you to move to another game because that's how F2P games in nature, once you feel like you can't play anymore you move up to something else.
• The trading have purpose with this model, came in time for something? great, couldn't get it? no problem just trade.

1 hour ago, K0bra said:

Then the horrendous amounts of crafting materials for them for newer stuff.When this continues there will be a time that all cheaper (crating materials) frames are away and only high crafting material cost frames remain.I could easily say who cares because im not affected by that but i dont.

I hate to say this to you but you want someone who just joined the game to be able to compete against someone who have been playing for over a year when it comes to resources? no just no and i admit some requirements bizarre but then again we do need a resource sink from to time to time, DE use Nano Spores and Alloy Plates next please.

All in all lets see what waifU19 will do to the game first, it may fix the some of the issue you have with Prime Vault but remember this, this is a Free To Play game, if you want something for free then put effort in getting it from farming it to crafting it or fork over the money.

I admit some times it feels like DE when they do something right they do 2 wrong :/

DE after you launch U19, go back and take look at things you have screwed when you tried to fix them instead of working on new stuff we have more stuff at our hands then we need them, time for fix or rework things, do that!!!

[K0bra]

24 minutes ago, AM-Bunny said:

That being said, is it really that important for new players to have access to every Prime Warframe? The experience is 99% the same while playing with the vanilla version, save for a few minor stat changes that are a small convenience at best. Basically, they're just a glorified cosmetic -- it's not as if the enjoyment of the entire game hinges on having them, in my opinion.

New players dont have access to any Prime frame ( theroretically maybe or he get carried) except they buy it with platinum.Dont forget no Prime warframe is easy to get.There is a RNG wall behind another RNG wall (keys).

Think about when a guy lets say play 3 months or 6 months and get his/her stuff together and want to get Ember Prime because he/she likes her.What can this guy do?Paying loads of real money.Sell loads of stuff or wait years till she is back for 1 month?

Trust me we can be happy that we play this game since a long time and were here when the stuff came out.Try to see the perspective of a puppie who hasnt hundreds of void keys,prime parts and so on.

 

10 minutes ago, Prinny13 said:

So you want everything to be handed to everyone in a free to play game with zero effort and maybe day one of joining the game or when the new item introduced to the game?

If DE do something like that and nobody buys plats or PA  this game would have died along time ago, yes i admit evil RNG is evil for not letting me have everything on my first Void key usage but if I do get what I want will I stop going into the Void? yes, why? no point in going there anymore :/

Sorry mate but this dont makes sense.There was a time where there wasnt a Prime Vault and like you can see the game grow healthy and huge.Magic?

All this zero effort blablabla.Check out this forum.When farming of the avaiable stuff would be so so easy and with zero effort there wouldnt be thread over thread about bad RNG.Getting Vauban Prime is zero effort? Sure sure sure.You must be the luckiest guy on the planet earth when you got all the Primes with "zero effort".

Edited May 20, 2016 by K0bra

[DatDarkOne]

23 minutes ago, AM-Bunny said:

Not having a place for new Prime Parts isn't the only cause for The Vault's existence. 

Why are Prime Access packages only available for a limited time? Why not keep them all permanently available so that anyone can buy Targis Prime Armour whenever they want? It's to exert pressure on buyers. It's no different with the Prime Vault. Players are pressured into spending cash on the packages while they're available, and to spend time in-game farming the items before they vanish.

You make it sound as though it's an unintended consequence when it's a very intentional strategy.

That being said, is it really that important for new players to have access to every Prime Warframe? The experience is 99% the same while playing with the vanilla version, save for a few minor stat changes that are a small convenience at best. Basically, they're just a glorified cosmetic -- it's not as if the enjoyment of the entire game hinges on having them, in my opinion.

Thank you for the post.  I quoted it in case some have missed the obvious answer to the topic title.  

[Schregger]

I can see the reason why they do it. 

Wait... Whats that? Because they need to make space for new frames and such? S*** no! Its because they can make money off that s***! You all know thats the sole reason for Frost and Ember costing over 600 plat. They are rare, so people charge more for them. Because people charge more for them, other people that are either new or slow to the draw, need platinum to buy those expensive parts. And DE sells platinum for an absurd amount of money. seriously, Its $50 (USD) to buy 1000 plat, and most of that would go to paying for that Ember Prime being sold. 

And we are not even mentioning the Prime Vault access that could happen again.

1 hour ago, Terraces said:

As a new player you talked about, I absolutely agreed.
(Loki... T.T )
 

If, ahh... you really want one... I can hook you up...

[DzeraDragonbane]

Srsly guys, This is the price we have to pay. DE needs money not only you or me or that guy on the trade chat. I agree about the orokin derelicts being too empty and how the grind is kind of increasing to which I hope they are just testing something as that ice pick hammer had an increased status chance when charged and stradavar had a switch fire.

[atom]

i can see why the prime vault is a good idea financially however i think it's a little bit drastic because of the rare release and small time frame and all.

i think Baro ki'Tears is a great opportunity to reintroduce the frames and weapons (not accessories) that have been vaulted. please. ty

[jinxeverything]

7 minutes ago, K0bra said:

New players dont have access to any Prime frame ( theroretically maybe or he get carried) except they buy it with platinum.Dont forget no Prime warframe is easy to get.There is a RNG wall behind another RNG wall (keys).

I have few new puppies in my clan i carry them to the Void for prime parts, sometimes i drag them over there, why? my motto is to never beg but work together to achieve!

They want something? earn just like i did, i earned my stuff, if i still dont have it i keep farming, dont want to? i buy it.

10 minutes ago, K0bra said:

Think about when a guy lets say play 3 months or 6 months and get his/her stuff together and want to get Ember Prime because he/she likes her.What can this guy do?Paying loads of real money.Sell loads of stuff or wait years till she is back for 1 month?

Trust me we can be happy that we play this game since a long time and were here when the stuff came out.Try to see the perspective of a puppie who hasnt hundreds of void keys,prime parts and so on.

Trust me on this i do share that view, i have it myself, missed out on Founder myself :(

Also sometimes i just hand out rare items for good behavior from players :D

12 minutes ago, K0bra said:

Sorry mate but this dont makes sense.There was a time where there wasnt a Prime Vault and like you can see the game grow healthy and huge.All this zero effort blablabla.Check out this forum.When farming of the avaiable stuff would be so so easy and with zero effort there wouldnt be thread over thread about bad RNG.Getting Vauban Prime is zero effort? Sure sure sure.You must be the luckiest guy on the planet earth when you got all the Primes with "zero effort".

If DE removed the trading from the game then the drop rate will improve, why? they lower it to keep the trading alive and kicking, why? we need plats or other parts for trading, its a business now :'(

RNGuss been cruel to me since day 1 and i need got what i wanted on the first try, ever but i put effort to get what i wanted, and my luck ratio is around 20% in this game XD

If we got everything within 1 week this game would have died long time ago, also did you play any other F2P games? do that and try to play many more and come back to this game and you will see this game as lowest of the evils when from F2P business to whats available in game without money purchases except for Vaulted prime.

DE makes money from plats purchases and PA, if everything were obtainable in game then who will buy plats? almost nobody.

Try to make a F2P game yourself with everything handed to players on day 1 without anything behind a wall and see how long that games lives or even make money to please investors or your staff AND pass 3 years mark, i challenge you!

You can farm plats in game by trading prime parts for it so you really dont need to fork over real money to get that, if you managed to get over 300 then Booben is yours, tell what any game that can let you that?

[(PSN)Nukerxero123]

I know it's bad but again, it has to be done as most of the roatations aren't used so the chances of getting a part that you want decreases even further, and if new primes are releases the chances decrease even further. Also t3 survival has like 8 items on it -roughly don't quote me- this is ridiculous, what about the other tiers and modes. There should be a t1 t2 and t3 interception as well. This is annoying but prime vault has to be done or more tower modes have to be released.

[tbellovics]

Somebody mentioned a void-sortie idea with the reward of the vaulted stuff. Another idea came into my mind.

Tower X Spy mission (or rename it Prime Vault X Spy, maybe a new tileset with a lot of statues of the Prime frames, weapon shelfs with the prime weapons, etc).
For example T1 spy has a chance of dropping the BP, t2 the helmet, t3 the chassis and t4 the systems. Of course the chance should be low enough to not to flood the market with the parts. Max 0,5% drop chance for frame parts, ~1-2% chance for weapon parts. The other can be Void keys, depending on the tier
Addition to this. We already have rotation system AABC for def and survival. Why not use for Spy too? 4 vaults, and the vaulted primes drop is only if you get all 4 (rotation C) So it should be a little harder. Not allowed to use cipher, nor liset air-support.

And for more twist, what if the enemies are not corrupted ones. What if the primed warframes are defending the vaults and the tileset against us, the intruders? It would be even more interesting :)

[-Mr.Meeseeks-]

Would you rather have drop tables be diluted as hell? No thanks, I think this systems is fine.

[K0bra]

14 minutes ago, -Mr.Meeseeks- said:

Would you rather have drop tables be diluted as hell? No thanks, I think this systems is fine.

Who said that?No one.

Lets face another problem wit the Void.Variation.

Always the same Tileset (changes only in gamemodes),always the tiring music,then the corrupted guys who are a copy of existing enemies from the factions.A Void 2.0 would be a nice addition sooner or later too.Completely new variable Void tilesets(that arent always white,gold),diffrent music,Void "faction" and not only copies of exisiting factions.

Thats another topic.I know.

Edited May 20, 2016 by K0bra

[Zalgo]

Only like five prime things drop in the deralict right? So why not move some things there instead of just removing them.

And move some things from T3 survival C for christs sake.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Zalgo

[-CM-Hekovashi]

 Simple money milking in the most laziest way possible. IF De wanna more money or plat sells-they should release more cosmetic stuff, like good quality one, armor sets, new syandanas etc. Let's be honest-very few ppl gonna buy those vaulted stuff when they open it (unless there some nice cosmeticks DUH) but lot's of players will gladly give their money to De for new GOOD quality cosmetic items, coz you know, fashion frame.  De have no excuses for being THAT greedy.

[Kaisty]

I've said it in other topics, so I will say it again. DE should just remove vault, slap a Prime part trader on the relays that is MR locked (make it equal to the amount of mastery you get from maxing out all the base frames and enough weapons to reach MR8-10), change out all the prime parts in the void that isn't up for Prime access packs for ducats, and keep the parts up for trading for players so those who want to spend money on plat before the MR lock can buy the parts from players and build them.

It would clear out the void drop table so it wouldn't be diluted, they could keep the syndicate offerings the same without having to change the code when certain drops are vaulted, the patient people would have a 100% chance of getting the parts they need without worrying about RNG, having it far enough MR locked away (or possibly behind a quest event) would make it worthwhile to those not using the whole "Power level with Draco and ferry" setup, and (like I stated above) would NOT include any of the Prime access items until said packs have expired. If you want those, farm the void.

If you need anymore of a "lock" for folks oh so worried about "meta players looking for best gear" have the setup lock primes of the weapons and items they seek until they have mastery ranked the normal version of it. Want that Soma Prime access unlocked = rank a normal Soma to 30. Looking at Mag Prime = get Mag to 30. They wouldn't need to keep it in their inventory, they would just get "clearance" for the main blueprints for the items they seek. Mind you they would get around this by buying the prints from another player or having them in their inventory before the trader was added, but that is just part of the trading aspect to it.