Volt Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[Dizzle22]

On 6/29/2016 at 8:29 AM, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

 I hate accidentally grabbing it.

This is another problem with the riot shield. At least they made it take a lower priority over other actions, but I feel like it should be a different button to pick it up.

Maybe hold down 3 near one to pick it up?

[Aquasurge]

7 hours ago, Wolfnrun said:

Yup, though it would be nice that we get a few status updates here and there...Maybe there is more experimentation going on and we don't know it??? It's going to be a while until then 

well, @[DE]Rebecca hasn't been on for the past few days, so DE is bound to be busy doing something - most likely specters of the rail

EDIT: changed has to hasn't.

Edited June 30, 2016 by Aquasurge

[Wolfnrun]

4 minutes ago, Aquasurge said:

well, @[DE]Rebecca hasn't been on for the past few days, so DE is bound to be busy doing something - most likely specters of the rail

Good point, maybe after the dust settles with SoR and WW we can look forward to something special for us 

Edited June 30, 2016 by Wolfnrun

[Cytobel]

2 hours ago, Wolfnrun said:

Good point, maybe after the dust settles with SoR and WW we can look forward to something special for us 

I REALLY hope you knocked on wood or crossed your fingers after inviting Murphey's Law so hard there.  I mean, that was on par with "what could go wrong?" or "hey, guys, watch this!".

Maybe I'm not totally taken in as much anymore.  Maybe I'm just drifting towards pessimism.  I'm just wondering whether this is ever going to produce an engaging, tactical Warframe.

I actually wanted "a potent alternative to gunplay".  I never really had that in Volt.  I would like to see a more tactical alternative, but I'm now believing that Volt will never be worth much of anything.  If you force a 'Frame to rely so totally on weapons, it comes off really weak.  Moreover, when something is left partially done (or even partially undone) for as long as Volt has twisted in the wind you generate the feeling of spoilage.

I've heard new players disparraging Volt too, saying he requires builds that they cannot manage befor months of play before he becomes slightly useful.

Beh, I'm gonna go on hiatus for a bit.  I want to play a good, workable and fun Volt again.  It's been too long, and that was what I feel like was promised.

[Toramaru]

17 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

I REALLY hope you knocked on wood or crossed your fingers after inviting Murphey's Law so hard there.  I mean, that was on par with "what could go wrong?" or "hey, guys, watch this!".

Maybe I'm not totally taken in as much anymore.  Maybe I'm just drifting towards pessimism.  I'm just wondering whether this is ever going to produce an engaging, tactical Warframe.

I actually wanted "a potent alternative to gunplay".  I never really had that in Volt.  I would like to see a more tactical alternative, but I'm now believing that Volt will never be worth much of anything.  If you force a 'Frame to rely so totally on weapons, it comes off really weak.  Moreover, when something is left partially done (or even partially undone) for as long as Volt has twisted in the wind you generate the feeling of spoilage.

I've heard new players disparraging Volt too, saying he requires builds that they cannot manage befor months of play before he becomes slightly useful.

Beh, I'm gonna go on hiatus for a bit.  I want to play a good, workable and fun Volt again.  It's been too long, and that was what I feel like was promised.

There's still hope, sir.

I'm on the same boat though, don't think we will ever have the "potent alternative to gunplay". Speed gives aspd, and that's pretty much it, if you consider melee an alternative to gunplay. I do, but I don't like how Crit builds are WAAAAAAAAAAAAY more viable than status builds. I love how the whole status thing work on Warframe, but imho DE isn't using it fully.

Anyhow, I'll keep playing, just not Volt... Been a Speed Volt for far too long.

[Wolfnrun]

39 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

I REALLY hope you knocked on wood or crossed your fingers after inviting Murphey's Law so hard there.  I mean, that was on par with "what could go wrong?" or "hey, guys, watch this!".

Maybe I'm not totally taken in as much anymore.  Maybe I'm just drifting towards pessimism.  I'm just wondering whether this is ever going to produce an engaging, tactical Warframe.

I actually wanted "a potent alternative to gunplay".  I never really had that in Volt.  I would like to see a more tactical alternative, but I'm now believing that Volt will never be worth much of anything.  If you force a 'Frame to rely so totally on weapons, it comes off really weak.  Moreover, when something is left partially done (or even partially undone) for as long as Volt has twisted in the wind you generate the feeling of spoilage.

I've heard new players disparraging Volt too, saying he requires builds that they cannot manage befor months of play before he becomes slightly useful.

Beh, I'm gonna go on hiatus for a bit.  I want to play a good, workable and fun Volt again.  It's been too long, and that was what I feel like was promised.

After reading this I felt the urge to raise more attention to volt and how he needs to be a priorty and needs lots of change... An Alt to gunplay that is offensive is ember and frost and all those others that can run missons without needing to use guns... @[DE]Rebecca I almost beg of you to prioratize volt, take a risk as many new tenno are ditching volt and moving towards excalibur, we need a real alternative to guns like frost,ember and saryn, just to name a few...Hear our voices and we will wait for a reply. We know you are busy and we know how frustrating it is to have so much work to do and on top of all that, another challanege is thrown at you, please when you have the chance, hear our voices 

Edited July 1, 2016 by Wolfnrun

[Kainosh]

Remove timer from Riot shield.  When carried,  It should last untill Volt run out of energy.  Shield should resume countdown when dropped though.

[rudman88]

On 28/05/2016 at 6:25 AM, R34LM said:

They do test it, but when they do they usually use dev builds that give infinite energy and health.

if they do test liek this then is totally screwed

 

I dotn get it why must rework volt.  speed other player pick up his leftover? it will disturb the team playstyle.

I recommend there is some range the team mates around rather than pick up it is seriously disturbing.

 

I thank DE for the shield pick up it looks cool

 

 

 

 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

11 hours ago, Wolfnrun said:

After reading this I felt the urge to raise more attention to volt and how he needs to be a priorty and needs lots of change... An Alt to gunplay that is offensive is ember and frost and all those others that can run missons without needing to use guns... @[DE]Rebecca I almost beg of you to prioratize volt, take a risk as many new tenno are ditching volt and moving towards excalibur, we need a real alternative to guns like frost,ember and saryn, just to name a few...Hear our voices and we will wait for a reply. We know you are busy and we know how frustrating it is to have so much work to do and on top of all that, another challanege is thrown at you, please when you have the chance, hear our voices 

Relax.  Breath deep.  They are busy over there but this thread exists as a legitimate feedback element.

It is always calmest before the Storm.  I suspect Spectres is being held up because they are listening and want to continually improve.

 

Once Volt's rework is finished I'll post my Deluxe Volt Skin design along with another, "sister" frame's deluxe skin in celebration. Working on it now.

[Wolfnrun]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Relax.  Breath deep.  They are busy over there but this thread exists as a legitimate feedback element.

It is always calmest before the Storm.  I suspect Spectres is being held up because they are listening and want to continually improve.

 

Once Volt's rework is finished I'll post my Deluxe Volt Skin design along with another, "sister" frame's deluxe skin in celebration. Working on it now.

INHALE...EXHALE.... I am calm...I will look forward to more and i'll look forward to that deluxe skin of your's! 

Edited July 1, 2016 by Wolfnrun

[(PSN)Silverback73]

23 hours ago, Toramaru said:

There's still hope, sir.

I'm on the same boat though, don't think we will ever have the "potent alternative to gunplay". Speed gives aspd, and that's pretty much it, if you consider melee an alternative to gunplay. I do, but I don't like how Crit builds are WAAAAAAAAAAAAY more viable than status builds. I love how the whole status thing work on Warframe, but imho DE isn't using it fully.

Anyhow, I'll keep playing, just not Volt... Been a Speed Volt for far too long.

Right, let's be real here.  Weapons are an integral part of Warframe's identity both in terms of game design AND real-world profitability.

Here let me change ONE WORD to make the debate vanish:

VOLT is a potent COMPLEMENT to gunplay...

So there it is.  The truth of it and a satisfactory descriptive for all parties involved.  Let's move on.

A storm is coming... ⚡️?⚡️?⚡️?⛈

[Wolfnrun]

Just now, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Right, let's be real here.  Weapons are an integral part of Warframe's identity both in terms of game design AND real-world profitability.

Here let me change ONE WORD to make the debate vanish:

VOLT is a potent COMPLEMENT to gunplay...

So there it is.  The truth of it and a satisfactory descriptive for all parties involved.  Let's move on.

A storm is coming... ⚡️?⚡️?⚡️?⛈

SIGH , this, is why a storm is coming... 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

5 minutes ago, Wolfnrun said:

SIGH , this, is why a storm is coming... 

You can't forma abilities. Augments rank as a distant second in terms of comparison :).

[Wolfnrun]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

You can't forma abilities. Augments rank as a distant second in terms of comparison :).

 

[Aquasurge]

43 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Right, let's be real here.  Weapons are an integral part of Warframe's identity both in terms of game design AND real-world profitability.

Here let me change ONE WORD to make the debate vanish:

VOLT is a potent COMPLEMENT to gunplay...

So there it is.  The truth of it and a satisfactory descriptive for all parties involved.  Let's move on.

A storm is coming... ⚡️?⚡️?⚡️?⛈

yeah, we know

[Wolfnrun]

ES is the only way we can actually deal "High damage" Not threw abilites but weapons... I'm going to be frank, we mainly like ES because it can 1 hit kill most enemies with our weapons, not because It's an alternative to guns...Though if it were an alternative  to guns, it might have to be replaced or altered in a way...

Edited July 2, 2016 by Wolfnrun

[ZeroLiger]

42 minutes ago, Wolfnrun said:

ES is the only way we can actually deal "High damage" Not threw abilites but weapons... I'm going to be frank, we mainly like ES because it can 1 hit kill most enemies with our weapons, not because It's an alternative to guns...Though if it were an alternative  to guns, it might have to be replaced or altered in a way...

ES isn't suppose to be an alternative to any form of damage. It's a shield that stops projectile fire. Ironically it increases range weapon damage while he is listed as "alternative to gunplay" or simpler, a caster that can spam abilities and kill everything while very seldomly relying on weapons.

 

I just wish shock did damage. It is his least used ability at higher lvls and the CC it gives often isn't enough to make you want to cast it over his other abilities.

Idk if their keeping it weak because it is a cheap multi-hit ability, but, in warframe it doesn't feel very good to spam something for damage. Plus between shock's slight cast time and the fact that stun duration does not stack (making you have to wait it out between casts to keep em' stunned) makes spamming it very unsatisfying. I believe it should be a bit stronger base stat wise (Like 225 - 275) at max rank while also capable of reaching a higher damage spike from completeting a minigame viva reworked passive?

[Wolfnrun]

4 minutes ago, ZeroLiger said:

ES isn't suppose to be an alternative to any form of damage. It's a shield that stops projectile fire. Ironically it increases range weapon damage while he is listed as "alternative to gunplay" or simpler, a caster that can spam abilities and kill everything while very seldomly relying on weapons.

Yes, Realisticly speaking though were going to use it to kill enemies because of the crit damage it has 

7 minutes ago, ZeroLiger said:

I just wish shock did damage. It is his least used ability at higher lvls and the CC it gives often isn't enough to make you want to cast it over his other abilities.

Idk if their keeping it weak because it is a cheap multi-hit ability, but, in warframe it doesn't feel very good to spam something for damage. Plus between shock's slight cast time and the fact that stun duration does not stack (making you have to wait it out between casts to keep em' stunned) makes spamming it very unsatisfying. I believe it should be a bit stronger base stat wise (Like 225 - 275) at max rank while also capable of reaching a higher damage spike from completeting a minigame viva reworked passive?

Ive been fighting long and hard for that... shock is nothing but a fake taser, compare the tickle device to inaros's desicate and it's nothing.  Needs more damage, duration and chain links, how much more simpler does it have to be? "Alternative to gunplay" Who is kidding us??? Honestly it is a joke! 

[Aquasurge]

11 hours ago, ZeroLiger said:

ES isn't suppose to be an alternative to any form of damage. It's a shield that stops projectile fire. Ironically it increases range weapon damage while he is listed as "alternative to gunplay" or simpler, a caster that can spam abilities and kill everything while very seldomly relying on weapons.

and this is why we will never have an alternate to gun-play: a shield that buffs guns.  

11 hours ago, ZeroLiger said:

I just wish shock did damage. It is his least used ability at higher lvls and the CC it gives often isn't enough to make you want to cast it over his other abilities.

Idk if their keeping it weak because it is a cheap multi-hit ability, but, in warframe it doesn't feel very good to spam something for damage. Plus between shock's slight cast time and the fact that stun duration does not stack (making you have to wait it out between casts to keep em' stunned) makes spamming it very unsatisfying. I believe it should be a bit stronger base stat wise (Like 225 - 275) at max rank while also capable of reaching a higher damage spike from completeting a minigame viva reworked passive?

i know, this has to be one of the most frustrating things about volt that is (more often than not)  neglected of potential because of shock's lack of modifiable scaling.  

[(PSN)Silverback73]

14 hours ago, Wolfnrun said:

Yes, Realisticly speaking though were going to use it to kill enemies because of the crit damage it has 

Ive been fighting long and hard for that... shock is nothing but a fake taser, compare the tickle device to inaros's desicate and it's nothing.  Needs more damage, duration and chain links, how much more simpler does it have to be? "Alternative to gunplay" Who is kidding us??? Honestly it is a joke! 

As I've said...potent COMPLEMENT to gunplay.  Let's look at what top-tier WarFrame powers and builds do effectively beyond mid-game:

1. Damage via Augment (weapons, speed, etc)

2. Damage via enemy debuff

3. Increase survivability via buff

4. Reduce enemy DPS

5. Crowd Control (wide radius)

6. Conflict bypass (Invisibilty, etc).

Beyond mid-game, any power that could compete purely on the basis of damage with forma'd weapons would break game balance.

So start thinking about and accept how his powers can synergistically affect weapon play and game enjoyment with the above factors and you will be able to get past the hang-up and focus on a true rework.

 

    

[Cytobel]

I keep seeing Augments mentioned, and that brings up a point about builds: if an "augment" is needed, then it's not so much an augment as a required slot cost.

While slot space is a totally different issue, I feel like Volt would significantly improve with access to a PROPER Augment slot.  Just like Arcanes should have slots on a Warframe, each 'Frame should have at least 1 unlockable Augment slot.  It'd free up mod space and let us maybe slightly alter builds a bit.

--------------------------------------

I think what Shock needs is a 50% knockdown chance.  After all, if you taser something, it usually falls down.  DE keeps talking about moving away from abilities doing damage (for some damn reason someone seems to like that notion), so we should be seeing more highly-useful non-damage effects in place of kills.

After all, if Volt is gonna be a "tactical 'Frame", then he needs a potent alternative to damage.  Yeah, I know that's probably throwing the old discription into someone's teeth, but that person (or those people) probably deserve it.  Karma is like that.  Also, I'm Scottish, so I'm like that too.

[Cytobel]

Completely seperate idea:  should Volt's passive just be a 100% chance to cause an electric proc on any melee attack and MAYBE at most a 35% chance per second to do the same on ranged weapons.

What do you think?

EXIT:  Okay, here's the logic.  Despite the push to turn Volt from (in X-Men terms, for the sake of approachability) Storm into Jubilee, we are left with a problem:  Jubilee is completely and utterly worthless as a member of the team.

(EDIT OF THE EDIT:  Alright, so it's Jubilee's POWERS that suck.  She might be alright, but add in practically anybody else and things work better.)

Similarly, Volt is shaping up to be about equal parts pointless-waste-of-skin applied over some solid bones and organs.  The difficulties of converting a DPS into a pure Support are many and varied, and that totally ignores how the players feel about the role switch.

Even more problematical is shucking the Jubilee before it spoiles the core of what Volt is:  actually worth something in a team WITHOUT BEING RELIANT ON OTHER PLAYERS FOR SURVIVAL.

The reasons I feel like an electric proc helps more than damage are, first, that damage does not scale, and second that adding "damage"  WHILE ADJUSTING AWAY FROM DPS comes off as hypocritical and/or schizophrenic design.  A passive should NEVER BE a damage number.

While an electric proc could improve our DPS, the change should be far less relevant than the stuns that our attacks spread.  This would synergise with Speed beautifully, it's built into Shock and Discharge, and we've already said a proc needs to be added to the "charged up" Electric Shield.  It fits Volt better, is more flexible to his changing role, and it would even look great.

Edited July 3, 2016 by Cytobel
I had to expand on the idea.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

2 hours ago, Cytobel said:

I keep seeing Augments mentioned, and that brings up a point about builds: if an "augment" is needed, then it's not so much an augment as a required slot cost.

While slot space is a totally different issue, I feel like Volt would significantly improve with access to a PROPER Augment slot.  Just like Arcanes should have slots on a Warframe, each 'Frame should have at least 1 unlockable Augment slot.  It'd free up mod space and let us maybe slightly alter builds a bit.

--------------------------------------

I think what Shock needs is a 50% knockdown chance.  After all, if you taser something, it usually falls down.  DE keeps talking about moving away from abilities doing damage (for some damn reason someone seems to like that notion), so we should be seeing more highly-useful non-damage effects in place of kills.

After all, if Volt is gonna be a "tactical 'Frame", then he needs a potent alternative to damage.  Yeah, I know that's probably throwing the old discription into someone's teeth, but that person (or those people) probably deserve it.  Karma is like that.  Also, I'm Scottish, so I'm like that too.

See, this is a beautiful idea that falls in line with where warframe powers are headed AND makes Volt more potent without using a pure damage aspect that scales.

 

I'd just like to add that the 50% chance at knockdown should scale with power strength so that it is 100% chance if you've invested in a 200% power strength build.

It should also affect Discharge.

I've even said that weapons with any tech to them should have a 25% base chance to jam (like Mesa's power) when you hit enemies with lightning, and have THAT scale with power Strength, too.

[Wolfnrun]

8 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

As I've said...potent COMPLEMENT to gunplay.  Let's look at what top-tier WarFrame powers and builds do effectively beyond mid-game:

1. Damage via Augment (weapons, speed, etc)

2. Damage via enemy debuff

3. Increase survivability via buff

4. Reduce enemy DPS

5. Crowd Control (wide radius)

6. Conflict bypass (Invisibilty, etc).

Beyond mid-game, any power that could compete purely on the basis of damage with forma'd weapons would break game balance.

So start thinking about and accept how his powers can synergistically affect weapon play and game enjoyment with the above factors and you will be able to get past the hang-up and focus on a true rework.

 

    

Ya, I'm sure we all know...

[Aquasurge]

16 hours ago, Cytobel said:

Completely seperate idea:  should Volt's passive just be a 100% chance to cause an electric proc on any melee attack and MAYBE at most a 35% chance per second to do the same on ranged weapons.

What do you think?

EXIT:  Okay, here's the logic.  Despite the push to turn Volt from (in X-Men terms, for the sake of approachability) Storm into Jubilee, we are left with a problem:  Jubilee is completely and utterly worthless as a member of the team.

(EDIT OF THE EDIT:  Alright, so it's Jubilee's POWERS that suck.  She might be alright, but add in practically anybody else and things work better.)

Similarly, Volt is shaping up to be about equal parts pointless-waste-of-skin applied over some solid bones and organs.  The difficulties of converting a DPS into a pure Support are many and varied, and that totally ignores how the players feel about the role switch.

Even more problematical is shucking the Jubilee before it spoiles the core of what Volt is:  actually worth something in a team WITHOUT BEING RELIANT ON OTHER PLAYERS FOR SURVIVAL.

The reasons I feel like an electric proc helps more than damage are, first, that damage does not scale, and second that adding "damage"  WHILE ADJUSTING AWAY FROM DPS comes off as hypocritical and/or schizophrenic design.  A passive should NEVER BE a damage number.

While an electric proc could improve our DPS, the change should be far less relevant than the stuns that our attacks spread.  This would synergise with Speed beautifully, it's built into Shock and Discharge, and we've already said a proc needs to be added to the "charged up" Electric Shield.  It fits Volt better, is more flexible to his changing role, and it would even look great.

yeah i agree - especially if electric dmg is reworked to give a 2.5x dmg multiplier.

15 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

See, this is a beautiful idea that falls in line with where warframe powers are headed AND makes Volt more potent without using a pure damage aspect that scales.

 

I'd just like to add that the 50% chance at knockdown should scale with power strength so that it is 100% chance if you've invested in a 200% power strength build.

It should also affect Discharge.

I've even said that weapons with any tech to them should have a 25% base chance to jam (like Mesa's power) when you hit enemies with lightning, and have THAT scale with power Strength, too.

or enemies should play hot potato with their guns smoking hot if they get stunned by shock.