Volt Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[Wolfnrun]

1 hour ago, Dante123pl said:

since volt is nowhere alternate to gunplay and hes powers just favorize it

how about exalted railgun as ult that consumes 3 energy per shot, and has charge up option for more dmg that would take more energy?it would be puncture + electric dmg with punchthrough and targets that got hit are also stuned from electric proc and would also scale from primary weapon mods

discharge is so boring ult that i barely use it

 

Oh the hillaraity in that! How about an electric railgun that fires noggles at the enemies face that causes them to explode???

[Wolfnrun]

2 hours ago, Cytobel said:

Earlier, I asked what Volt's 2nd ability should be if we made Speed* (Shocking Speed, once it's charged far enough) a consequence of charging up Discharge.  I've had a thought there:

Static Flicker (name totally a work in progress).  Static Flicker is a mid-range blink (maybe 30m?) that discharges a short range AoE electric proc (6m radius?) at both ends of the blink.

The idea is pretty straightforward.  Volt is squishy, so he needs ways to prevent himself from taking fire.  He needs to have Speed going to be hard to hit, but he needs Electric Shield to stop shots he can't dodge, leading to a stop-n-go-n-stop-n-go playstyle that seems to be the root cause for many players' discontent with Volt.  By giving Volt a way to just flatly "turn-on" speed, we see the possibility of a fast moving playstyle that DOESN'T PUNISH YOU for needing Electric Shield.

So why a blink?  Well, with a blink you can quickly change positions aggressively, stunning targets as you engage hard on a troublesome group.  Conversely, it's a great escape tool for a 'Frame that really needs it, stunning attackers and repositioning to a location better suited to your needs.  Aslo, a blink is perfect for a 'Frame on the go, getting you past terrain you don't have time to deal with.  Most importantly, a blink lets you move between points without taking fire (something Volt cannot handle well).

This is a move that would work more smoothly in Volt's kit, allowing for a high-speed playstyle with FAR greater tactical flexibility.  You gain an engage, a disengage, and an all-around utility with value to whatever kind of play you prefer.  By integrating Speed into Discharge we can reduce spamming, making Discharge more of a tactical option with both value and consequense.  Additionally, you really have good reason to use Electric Shield when you need to spend a moment charging up for Speed buff.  Without constant recasts of Speed the energy cost of Riot Shield becomes slightly more managable (even though it's still FAR too high and it suffers WAAAAAY too many restrictions).

Shocking Speed is a solid augment, so there should be an equally solid replacement should Speed become a buyilt-in for Discharge.  I propose Static Twin.  When you blink, you briefly create a duplicate of yourself that moves and shoots on it's own.  After a few seconds, it detonates in a medium-scale radial electric proc with knockdown.

  Reveal hidden contents

The logic (such as it is) behind an electric Warframe having a teleport is this:  electrons can be in more than one place at one time [ref. http://bigthink.com/dr-kakus-universe/nobel-prize-awarded-to-two-quantum-physicist].  For some time it has been known that photons and electrons have a somewhat "fuzzy" locational existance, and can be understood to exist in whole regions rather than just singular points under certain curcumstances.

What if Volt were able to raise energy states until he had simultaneous existence in two locations very briefly, and then he collapsed into one instance at a point not where he started?  If for a moment we ignore the energy requirements of such a feat and the consequences of such an action at scale, the logic isn't totally unsound.  Indeed, the AoE electric procs at both ends of the blink serve as a means to discharge the energy of such an action, plus it'd both look awesome and ensure Volt survived the transition.

Static Twin is explainable by similarly fuzzy logic in which Volt is in BOTH locations at the same time.  By this train of thought, Volt should survive the destruction of either instance, because the other would be the remaining "real" Volt, and the one that died would be the one that detonates into a nova of cascading electrons and high-energy particles.  Were that a game mechanic though, the discharge of high energy particles would likely function as a radiation proc on the area in which the clone died.

 

Hmmm...It sounds, intresting...I like the idea of a radial electric proc though there not very reliable, they suffer a knockdown...Which makes up for that...It could work

[----Dante----]

31 minutes ago, Wolfnrun said:

Oh the hillaraity in that! How about an electric railgun that fires noggles at the enemies face that causes them to explode???

well lets be honest volt ill never be alternate to gunplay

so lets just make him gunplay focused frame

and i think build in railgun as ultimate would fit best

[Wolfnrun]

Just now, Dante123pl said:

well lets be honest volt ill never be alternate to gunplay

so lets just make him gunplay focused frame

and i think build in railgun as ultimate would fit best

Alright,  

- Discharge has been replaced with a rail gun that fires noggles, since volt was never an alternative to guns, enjoy attakcing enemies with you'r noggles, tenno 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

18 hours ago, Wolfnrun said:

In the extended second dream video, this was here...what if this were a thing??? 

 

And would make much much much more sense

[Wolfnrun]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

And would make much much much more sense

I wonder why channeling electricty to or from the ground is not a thing? Looks awesome 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

2 hours ago, Wolfnrun said:

I wonder why channeling electricty to or from the ground is not a thing? Looks awesome 

I wonder what set up the guy was using in that riot sheild gif[DE] Rebecca showed.

He didn't seem too worried to be losing energy.

[Wolfnrun]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

I wonder what set up the guy was using in that riot sheild gif[DE] Rebecca showed.

He didn't seem too worried to be losing energy.

As someone stated in the main thread when the change came into affect : That volt was using primed streamline and primed fleeting expertise, all of which these mods do-not exist 

Even if MES was fixed I don't see myself using it...it's one of those things that looks neat and intresting but realisticly speaking...you'r never going to use

Edited July 8, 2016 by Wolfnrun

[Cytobel]

Just now, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

I wonder what set up the guy was using in that riot sheild gif[DE] Rebecca showed.

He didn't seem too worried to be losing energy.

Try Zenurik lens, maxed out energy regen with basically nothing else.  Build 170% Efficiency.  Use Energy Siphon.  You still lose energy, just not all of it.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

6 minutes ago, Wolfnrun said:

As someone stated in the main thread when the change came into affect : That volt was using primed streamline and primed fleeting expertise, all of which these mods do-not exist 

Even if MES was fixed I don't see myself using it...it's one of those things that looks neat and intresting but realisticly speaking...you'r never going to use

Are you serious? Is this for a fact a real thing DE did?

Just one second, let me hyperventilate into this bag before I rage.

*almost explodes*

You can't. YOU CAN NOT test things and build limits to things off of bs stats that dont even freaking exist in the real game. (screaming at the wall right now).

the only way that is ok and acceptable is if those are mods they are balancing around because they will be added soon.

But that is blatant over powered power creep cheese that I thought we were trying to stop.

 

6 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

Try Zenurik lens, maxed out energy regen with basically nothing else.  Build 170% Efficiency.  Use Energy Siphon.  You still lose energy, just not all of it.

This is so very very wrong. Im not saying your build is wrong, volt works well with efficiency, but this drain is so wrong

One second.

[SylvenStar]

6 hours ago, Cytobel said:

Earlier, I asked what Volt's 2nd ability should be if we made Speed* (Shocking Speed, once it's charged far enough) a consequence of charging up Discharge.  I've had a thought there:

Static Flicker (name totally a work in progress).  Static Flicker is a mid-range blink (maybe 30m?) that discharges a short range AoE electric proc (6m radius?) at both ends of the blink.

The idea is pretty straightforward.  Volt is squishy, so he needs ways to prevent himself from taking fire.  He needs to have Speed going to be hard to hit, but he needs Electric Shield to stop shots he can't dodge, leading to a stop-n-go-n-stop-n-go playstyle that seems to be the root cause for many players' discontent with Volt.  By giving Volt a way to just flatly "turn-on" speed, we see the possibility of a fast moving playstyle that DOESN'T PUNISH YOU for needing Electric Shield.

So why a blink?  Well, with a blink you can quickly change positions aggressively, stunning targets as you engage hard on a troublesome group.  Conversely, it's a great escape tool for a 'Frame that really needs it, stunning attackers and repositioning to a location better suited to your needs.  Aslo, a blink is perfect for a 'Frame on the go, getting you past terrain you don't have time to deal with.  Most importantly, a blink lets you move between points without taking fire (something Volt cannot handle well).

This is a move that would work more smoothly in Volt's kit, allowing for a high-speed playstyle with FAR greater tactical flexibility.  You gain an engage, a disengage, and an all-around utility with value to whatever kind of play you prefer.  By integrating Speed into Discharge we can reduce spamming, making Discharge more of a tactical option with both value and consequense.  Additionally, you really have good reason to use Electric Shield when you need to spend a moment charging up for Speed buff.  Without constant recasts of Speed the energy cost of Riot Shield becomes slightly more managable (even though it's still FAR too high and it suffers WAAAAAY too many restrictions).

Shocking Speed is a solid augment, so there should be an equally solid replacement should Speed become a buyilt-in for Discharge.  I propose Static Twin.  When you blink, you briefly create a duplicate of yourself that moves and shoots on it's own.  After a few seconds, it detonates in a medium-scale radial electric proc with knockdown.

  Reveal hidden contents

The logic (such as it is) behind an electric Warframe having a teleport is this:  electrons can be in more than one place at one time [ref. http://bigthink.com/dr-kakus-universe/nobel-prize-awarded-to-two-quantum-physicist].  For some time it has been known that photons and electrons have a somewhat "fuzzy" locational existance, and can be understood to exist in whole regions rather than just singular points under certain curcumstances.

What if Volt were able to raise energy states until he had simultaneous existence in two locations very briefly, and then he collapsed into one instance at a point not where he started?  If for a moment we ignore the energy requirements of such a feat and the consequences of such an action at scale, the logic isn't totally unsound.  Indeed, the AoE electric procs at both ends of the blink serve as a means to discharge the energy of such an action, plus it'd both look awesome and ensure Volt survived the transition.

Static Twin is explainable by similarly fuzzy logic in which Volt is in BOTH locations at the same time.  By this train of thought, Volt should survive the destruction of either instance, because the other would be the remaining "real" Volt, and the one that died would be the one that detonates into a nova of cascading electrons and high-energy particles.  Were that a game mechanic though, the discharge of high energy particles would likely function as a radiation proc on the area in which the clone died.

 

Do I hear a YEEEEAAAAAH!
Seriously, I would LOVE to have a medium range blink burst over a speed boost. To go along with that, I would have to suggest that Volt's passive stops being a damage buff and becomes a scaling sprint-speed boost. Turn Speed into his Passive. Also, yes. Static Twin. Might I suggest that with that augment, it can be triggered once so that you take control of the Twin and the "Original" is the one that detonates? Would make for some very, very tricky gameplay. :D
Plus, this would enable Riot Shield to an extent. Blink into an enemy group, stun them, and rack off a few headshots with extra crit and electric damage from the shield, without the absurd movement drain.

[Wolfnrun]

1 hour ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Are you serious? Is this for a fact a real thing DE did?

Just one second, let me hyperventilate into this bag before I rage.

*almost explodes*

You can't. YOU CAN NOT test things and build limits to things off of bs stats that dont even freaking exist in the real game. (screaming at the wall right now).

the only way that is ok and acceptable is if those are mods they are balancing around because they will be added soon.

But that is blatant over powered power creep cheese that I thought we were trying to stop.

I have no idea, honestly... 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

7 hours ago, Cytobel said:

Don't jump him.  He may have a different viewpoint, but that doesn't make it less valid.  I disagree with him in the end, but almost totally because of the stated issues we (as a culture) have with the "jack-of-all-trades" idiom.  I see that there can be soemthing to the "unique by not being focused" arguement, even if I don't see things the same way. 

EDIT:  I have different views of what I want from Volt than most people, I think.  I would be extatic to actually have a little time to talk to people at Digital Extremes on this, to see where they wanted Volt to be in a fight and what he'd be doing.  I am Volt, but I'm not the same Volt as other Volts (if that makes sense).

"Disparate" is a good term to describe how his powers currently relate, and why so many different visions exist for a rework success.

Please forgive any perceptions of jumping on anyone, least of all other passionate Voltites like Q.

Online, you can't always read context, and being a bit older I sometimes drive home my feedback with Primed Fury modded Fragor Prime.

Edited July 8, 2016 by (PS4)Silverback73

[Wolfnrun]

I once had an idea for having an electric net that would damage enemies that walk on it, and would have a % chance to stun enemies who step on it

[RealPandemonium]

27 minutes ago, Wolfnrun said:

I once had an idea for having an electric net that would damage enemies that walk on it, and would have a % chance to stun enemies who step on it

https://forums.warframe.com/forum/89-fan-concepts/

[voltocitygel]

8 hours ago, SylvenStar said:

Do I hear a YEEEEAAAAAH!
Seriously, I would LOVE to have a medium range blink burst over a speed boost. To go along with that, I would have to suggest that Volt's passive stops being a damage buff and becomes a scaling sprint-speed boost. Turn Speed into his Passive. Also, yes. Static Twin. Might I suggest that with that augment, it can be triggered once so that you take control of the Twin and the "Original" is the one that detonates? Would make for some very, very tricky gameplay. :D
Plus, this would enable Riot Shield to an extent. Blink into an enemy group, stun them, and rack off a few headshots with extra crit and electric damage from the shield, without the absurd movement drain.

Yup. I like this idea too, though I think it would make a better 2 than 4. I like discharge (except the damage cap)

[Cytobel]

2 hours ago, voltocitygel said:

Yup. I like this idea too, though I think it would make a better 2 than 4. I like discharge (except the damage cap)

That was what I meant in the first place.  His 4 could charge like Inaros', and Speed could be a buff you get by charging his 4.

A blink wouldn't be an acceptable 4 at all, but it'd make a good 2, especially if Speed is already somewhere else in his kit.

The idea is that Volt keeps Speed (as a buff without a duration timer), keeps Discharge (he just charges it before he Discharges), and gains a more tactical option for his 2.

Also, I was saying his Discharge could pulse off of any allies that had the Speed buff when he Discharged, but that's neither here nor there.  This would mean that only allies within a specific range keep the indefinite Speed buff, just to prevent abuse.

The main reason for a charge-up on Discharge is so that we can have the damage cap and ground cast pulled.  Having a Speed buff without a timer would be an excellent compromise to balance the charge-up, and it removes a touch of unneeded cast burden from his energy pool.  Maybe we could even see that percentile health damage thing at a fully charged Discharge?

Also, since Speed would be indefinite, maybe it'd be a little weaker?  Not too sure, but I'd take something that's not quite as strong but didn't need constant recasting.  By weaker, I mean it wouldn't scale as strongly (it should start a bit more effective IMO, other changes or not)

-------------------------------------------------------------

Playing Volt earlier without a blink...  it felt like something was missing.  I'd never thought about how much I hate constantly recasting Speed, or how ineffective it is when you are running 170% Strength.  That's just wrong.  Nothing should require such an investment in build to make it good, and a blink would've added so much to Volt's survivability.

Meh, just dreaming...

Edited July 9, 2016 by Cytobel

[Cytobel]

Disreguard any earlier mention of Discharge radiating from teammates.  I was clearly tired beyond belief and drunk.  Nevermind the fact that I don't recall drinking, that's definitely drunk talk.  "OP" doesn't cover the tip of that iceberg.

I was originally thinking that other players should have some benefit from you dumping your Speed buff, but that's about the point that the crazy started.

[RealPandemonium]

14 hours ago, Wolfnrun said:

As someone stated in the main thread when the change came into affect : That volt was using primed streamline and primed fleeting expertise, all of which these mods do-not exist 

Just caught this post.  This is just absurdity; those mods don't exist, period, but even if they did exist they would not lower energy costs below 25% anyway.  Please do not post out of your &#!.  

[Toramaru]

I just hope we get to keep Speed.

I like the idea of melee focused Frames, or else, Warframe would be too similar to other FPS games... At least that's my take on it.

I do believe DE is doing a good job on melee, not optimal yet, but still fun, but with very few options that are actually viable (2-3 Frames that are actually able to focus on melee, and only Crit Builds for now).

Volt is within that group, ONLY because of Speed (+ Shocking Speed).

Haven't played in a while, but I do hope they keep him in that group, and was expecting a few tweaks as well, to make him shine as Melee oriented, as I do see that as a potent alternative to gunplay.

[Wolfnrun]

On 7/9/2016 at 2:37 AM, RealPandemonium said:

Just caught this post.  This is just absurdity; those mods don't exist, period, but even if they did exist they would not lower energy costs below 25% anyway.  Please do not post out of your &#!.  

I am guessing that person posted that as a way of saying the drain is very low??? I wasn't but thanks anyways  

Spoiler

Were clearly opposites  

 

Edited July 11, 2016 by Wolfnrun

[(PSN)Silverback73]

If DE wants a synergy stacking frame, what kind of "lightning" boost relationships have they really toyed with?

What if stacking shock on Dicharge-affected enemies caused damage multipliers and extended CC stun-time? Stretched the Cap?  Widened or recharged the coil effect?

What if active Discharge reset speed timers?

What if shock and Discharge amped shields for near 100% stun and weapon malfunction? (mesa's weapon jam).

Discharge healed Volt while active?

You could fast-cast 1,3,4 on the run with speed active...

mind BLOWN.

[Wolfnrun]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

If DE wants a synergy stacking frame, what kind of "lightning" boost relationships have they really toyed with?

What if stacking shock on Dicharge-affected enemies caused damage multipliers and extended CC stun-time? Stretched the Cap?  Widened or recharged the coil effect?

What if active Discharge reset speed timers?

What if shock and Discharge amped shields for near 100% stun and weapon malfunction? (mesa's weapon jam).

Discharge healed Volt while active?

You could fast-cast 1,3,4 on the run with speed active...

mind BLOWN.

One day our time will come...one day 

[Aquasurge]

2 hours ago, Wolfnrun said:

One day our time will come...one day 

hopefully before we have to kick teshin's &#!

[Wolfnrun]

Just now, Aquasurge said:

hopefully before we have to kick teshin's &#!

I don't care what anyone says! We will destroy the opposition! Lets do this!