Volt Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

1 hour ago, FitzSimmons said:

i play volt for 3 years and things i found wrong are only energy cost on riot shield per distance, reload speed boost that's lower than melee atk speed and running speed buff, and can't cast discharge mid air. other than that volt rework is great, can't find any frame as perfect and balance as volt (maybe im just a fanboy but thats what i feel on volt compared to any frame i play). people used to say there are many warframe CC better than volt and overload, now with discharge they're equal, plus with capacitance give you overshield. old invulnerable electric shield return with bigger size, thats great, now frost isn't the only one with defense power that can block radius damage.
more synergy will be great addition. like @RealPandemonium said, powers exist to help you win the game, not to play the game for you. what i've seen most of the time is people force volt to be a DPS warframe with his power like excalibur, mesa, ivara, wukong, any frame that have exalted like power as their ultimate.

I agree (to a point). My only issues right now are riot sheild (that I don't use), the useless mess of the way the passive works, and air cast discharge. I tend to ignore all the things DE makes a big deal about that don't matter.

You aren't ever going to notice a difference in reload speed, even if DE says you will, because when they "buff" things, they either go way overboard, or barely change anything, there hardly seems to be any middle ground. And since they seem to be worried of volt being over powered, they went the "barely noticeable" route (I'm just sour, DE does great thingsthings, and the volt rework is not terrible....there, I said it.)

However, I have to make a stink about some points made:

Are you referring to speed?

Forcing volt into a dps role....I agree with almost everything else but that piece, if you could explain that part, thatd be nice...

I run speed for the same reason I run toxic lash, and love saryn and volt. Because I love melee, but not the way that warframe as a game handles it....different story altogether.

And the part about Warframe powers not playing the game for you, I get that too, but that is an off topic discussion that would stray too far from this post right here, which is about volt, so I can't go off on that tangent, not here...but that statement is exactly why I just made a post about crowd control in general discussion...so...

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

What is this about electric proc nerfs?

[FitzSimmons]

1 hour ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Are you referring to speed?

Forcing volt into a dps role....I agree with almost everything else but that piece, if you could explain that part, thatd be nice...

I run speed for the same reason I run toxic lash, and love saryn and volt. Because I love melee, but not the way that warframe as a game handles it....different story altogether.

And the part about Warframe powers not playing the game for you, I get that too, but that is an off topic discussion that would stray too far from this post right here, which is about volt, so I can't go off on that tangent, not here...but that statement is exactly why I just made a post about crowd control in general discussion...so...

not speed, his ulti and shock, i think i wrote it in my post. many people will satisfied if the shock is stronger, become more into damaging type than tool for stun. and the ulti is like conjure weapon that deal high damage. 

[Aquasurge]

3 hours ago, FitzSimmons said:

satisfied if the shock is stronger, become more into damaging type than tool for stun

we should probably wait until dmg 3.0 and electric procs get reworked

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

High....

Damage....

*Eye starts twitching*

I need to make a seperate rant post about this....just to get it off my chest. And so I can stop bothering you guys.

But I really wish those two words would stop being used in the same sentence in regards to things in warframe. Is the intended enemy level for this discription of any damage ability usually below 20? If so, then it's ok. It the level gets higher than that, then no. No, it does not work. 

Volt can be described as a high damage frame the same day he can be called an alternative to gunplay. He does moderate, unimpressive, ordinary damage. 

It does high damage in warframe trailers

[RealPandemonium]

5 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

What is this about electric proc nerfs?

AOE procs (Gas, Electric) are implemented as explosions. These would auto-headshot for double (or triple on MOAs) damage on units that could be headshotted (most of them.)  The nerf to explosives that made them unable to headshot also nerfed AOE status as a result.  Not sure if this issue is even on DE's radar or if the care at all.  Players don't seem to care either, as every thread I make about this gets buried in a few hours with hardly any replies.  

Edit: Just FYI, status procs inflicted by headshots used to get an extra x2 damage multiplier, similar to crits.  This was removed without patch notes a while ago, which was the first nerf to status damage to my knowledge.  Damage procs have way less maxcase damage potential (1/2 to 1/4 depending on the case) than they did compared to their initial rollout in Damage 2.0 in late 2013.  AFAIK, damage procs have never been particularly abused or considered OP; their nerfs appear to be entirely coincidental with other changes and DE has never given an official stance on how strong they're supposed to be.  Can be considered an orphaned mechanic with little dev attention, I guess.  

Edited July 28, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[Cytobel]

"(Damage procs)  ..can be considered an orphaned mechanic"

Now THAT'S a depressing statement.  True, but depressing.  I miss the days of Viral spreading.  I miss that a LOT.  Nothing as funny as a sentinel catching a radiation proc, deleting someone, and then the rest of the team caught the hiv from them as they tried to res the poor fool.  Good times...

Coincidentally, I keep seeing mention of this "high damage" line people'd have to be high to believe.  Frankly, I'm pretty sure it'd be true enough if Electricity wasn't the dump damage type.

For a little while I've imagined what it'd be like if Electricity had something like a 10% Shield/Armor pen.  Seems low, but could make all the difference, especially with Discharge.

Then again, I already advocated a different method for handling Discharge.  The post was the one with the Static Twin idea in it.  I'm all about tactical decisions, but I just don't feel the current Discharge is strong enough to warrent ground lock and a recast timer.  That (along with the name) is why I say it should be a charge-up skill.  Well, that, and I had an idea for something else to be added to Volt's kit and needed a move slot.

Yes I see Volt as having different potential use and growth.  I'm not impressed with Speed (it's had its time, but it is becoming too much of a crutch for DE), and I find it tragic when I hear a player claim that buffing the whole teams speed will let them catch up with players who clearly don't care about being in a group.  This is part of why I advocated for Speed becoming a buff to the charge-up for Discharge and Volt getting a Blink skill in its place.  A Blink, properly implemented, could have radial stun/knockdown at the destination and starting point.  This would let Volt ACTUALLY "catch up", engage/disengage, and position all without relying on wonkey shield mechanich that DE seems terrified are totally OP.  *coughRIOTSHIELDcough*

I felt a bit sick when DERebecca tried to pitch the Riot Shield knockdown as somehow fixing a crippling slow, silly drainS, and an unfriendly forced switch from main gun to sidearm.  I wondered if anyone besides DE missed the point harder, Christopher Columbus aside.

No, I didn't blame her.  I just felt sick.

This is a better half of a nice rework, but cut even a gorgeous person in half and you're still left with a corpse.  This feels a bit dead to me.

EDIT:  DE, I'm sorry.  Comparing you to an alcoholic, genocidal child-slaver was a bit too harsh.  I just couldn't think of a closer analogy for a "missing the mark" metaphor.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Cytobel

[Adder9]

10 hours ago, FitzSimmons said:

not speed, his ulti and shock, i think i wrote it in my post. many people will satisfied if the shock is stronger, become more into damaging type than tool for stun. and the ulti is like conjure weapon that deal high damage. 

I think shock is fine. It levels really well, and, with intensify or blind rage, it can get very powerful. If that's how you want your volt, you can mod for it quite easily, but at the cost of some energy (which, as I said, he has in spades). Shock is meant to be just that, a shock. It's a highly spammable first ability that excels at CC as a rapid acting taser. It generally kills enemies below level 20 outright for me, and higher for machines. I think it's fine overall. It doesn't need to be a cannon. If you want that, bring an amprex. Since shock is so usable, increasing its strength would make volt very OP.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

6 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

AOE procs (Gas, Electric) are implemented as explosions. These would auto-headshot for double (or triple on MOAs) damage on units that could be headshotted (most of them.)  The nerf to explosives that made them unable to headshot also nerfed AOE status as a result.  Not sure if this issue is even on DE's radar or if the care at all.  Players don't seem to care either, as every thread I make about this gets buried in a few hours with hardly any replies.  

Edit: Just FYI, status procs inflicted by headshots used to get an extra x2 damage multiplier, similar to crits.  This was removed without patch notes a while ago, which was the first nerf to status damage to my knowledge.  Damage procs have way less maxcase damage potential (1/2 to 1/4 depending on the case) than they did compared to their initial rollout in Damage 2.0 in late 2013.  AFAIK, damage procs have never been particularly abused or considered OP; their nerfs appear to be entirely coincidental with other changes and DE has never given an official stance on how strong they're supposed to be.  Can be considered an orphaned mechanic with little dev attention, I guess.  

So that's what happened to my penta...

Eeewwwwwwwww.....

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

2 hours ago, Adder9 said:

I think shock is fine. It levels really well, and, with intensify or blind rage, it can get very powerful. If that's how you want your volt, you can mod for it quite easily, but at the cost of some energy (which, as I said, he has in spades). Shock is meant to be just that, a shock. It's a highly spammable first ability that excels at CC as a rapid acting taser. It generally kills enemies below level 20 outright for me, and higher for machines. I think it's fine overall. It doesn't need to be a cannon. If you want that, bring an amprex. Since shock is so usable, increasing its strength would make volt very OP.

That in itself is the unsatisfying part....

I am indulging in dreams, I have long since given up the idea we are supposed to be strong, but weapons>warframes should not be a thing. Its is also not ok to me that the ignis is a better option than chromas spectral scream, and that's pretty much the same situation being outlined. Yes, the first ability according to warframe isn't supposed to do much, but at least add some utility to damage abilities (like a shock that can be affected by duration to get a longer stun, or opening shocked enemies to finishers, for simple starters...) or it can just be shock. I don't care anymore. I do care, and I think it would awesome if we could parkour with our first abilities, and more noticeable synergies, like using shock and speed to blink to a desired area. 

Just for a moment, lift all limitations from your mind of what super powered characters should be capable of (do I need to post more videos of infamous? I know it has nothing to do with anything, but still), and look at what's going on in warframe. Everyone was saying we needed cooldowns, or a better energy system, but no, we got power canceling enemies, to some abilities that do much of anything to merit even being cancelled. If this was infamous (and infamous online would be super awesome, but it's not, it's like 10 years old, that's why I play warframe), I would have rage quit a long time ago, because everything relies on powers and melee (like how I approach my warframe play style). But at least we have guns.

The amprex should be the taser(not weaker than it is now, but compared to volt) and volt should be the "canon". My opinion, and you can't take it from me *barricades self behind internet anonymity*

Also look for a game called "crysis

[(PSN)EVILFLUFFMONSTER]

The fix needed, is that all powers should scale with enemies to at least sortie levels, and cheese powers should be toned back. As for weapons vs powers..while I want powers to be as good, im sure most of us can agree that there are a few select weapons that are far too powerful compared even to other weapons. Scaling powers to those weapons levels then renders many other weapons obsolete compared to the warframes innate powers..

A full rework of all weapons and powers would sound great, but new weapons need to be better than old ones or nobody buys them or trys to build them, which creates disparities in balance. Thats why weapons have overtaken powers, and will inevitably continue to do so even as powers get continually rebalanced.

[Adder9]

1 hour ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

That in itself is the unsatisfying part....

I am indulging in dreams, I have long since given up the idea we are supposed to be strong, but weapons>warframes should not be a thing. Its is also not ok to me that the ignis is a better option than chromas spectral scream, and that's pretty much the same situation being outlined. Yes, the first ability according to warframe isn't supposed to do much, but at least add some utility to damage abilities (like a shock that can be affected by duration to get a longer stun, or opening shocked enemies to finishers, for simple starters...) or it can just be shock. I don't care anymore. I do care, and I think it would awesome if we could parkour with our first abilities, and more noticeable synergies, like using shock and speed to blink to a desired area. 

Just for a moment, lift all limitations from your mind of what super powered characters should be capable of (do I need to post more videos of infamous? I know it has nothing to do with anything, but still), and look at what's going on in warframe. Everyone was saying we needed cooldowns, or a better energy system, but no, we got power canceling enemies, to some abilities that do much of anything to merit even being cancelled. If this was infamous (and infamous online would be super awesome, but it's not, it's like 10 years old, that's why I play warframe), I would have rage quit a long time ago, because everything relies on powers and melee (like how I approach my warframe play style). But at least we have guns.

The amprex should be the taser(not weaker than it is now, but compared to volt) and volt should be the "canon". My opinion, and you can't take it from me *barricades self behind internet anonymity*

Also look for a game called "crysis

I have very little problems with the power canceling enemies. Ranged attacks are a thing, and their bubbles break. I do think it would be better if the energy cancelling bubble was simply an area aura (i.e. we can see it, but it doesn't prevent attacks from passing through like a snow globe), but that's another topic. 

Warframe is warframe, not Infamous. You have three weapon slots and the ability to bring a companion for a reason, and that reason is so that you can maintain the right amont of force to meet your threats. If a damaging low power cost ability can instantly kill a large group of enemies, then it nullifies the use of other items. The game is about strategy and balance. 

Shock is cheap to cast, especially with efficiency mods, and can get very powerful with strength mods, which is the point of mods: if you want your shock to be that powerful, you can build your volt that way, but not everyone's volt and play style mandates that much power. As I said earlier, I only run intensify on my Volt Prime, which I sortie with, and I've never thought that shock was useless. It's damage didn't tank until my guns had become spit wad shooters anyway. It can be re-cast quite rapidly remember, and the stun proc is always useful. Your idea of allowing stunned enemies to be open to finishers is a good one though. I like it. 

If you want the cannon, then use discharge followed by shock. It works quite well. 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

38 minutes ago, Adder9 said:

I have very little problems with the power canceling enemies. Ranged attacks are a thing, and their bubbles break. I do think it would be better if the energy cancelling bubble was simply an area aura (i.e. we can see it, but it doesn't prevent attacks from passing through like a snow globe), but that's another topic. 

Warframe is warframe, not Infamous. You have three weapon slots and the ability to bring a companion for a reason, and that reason is so that you can maintain the right amont of force to meet your threats. If a damaging low power cost ability can instantly kill a large group of enemies, then it nullifies the use of other items. The game is about strategy and balance. 

Shock is cheap to cast, especially with efficiency mods, and can get very powerful with strength mods, which is the point of mods: if you want your shock to be that powerful, you can build your volt that way, but not everyone's volt and play style mandates that much power. As I said earlier, I only run intensify on my Volt Prime, which I sortie with, and I've never thought that shock was useless. It's damage didn't tank until my guns had become spit wad shooters anyway. It can be re-cast quite rapidly remember, and the stun proc is always useful. Your idea of allowing stunned enemies to be open to finishers is a good one though. I like it. 

If you want the cannon, then use discharge followed by shock. It works quite well. 

Bubbles break. That's cool. Any who, I'll be sticking to fighting the grineer which are now the most fun faction in the game. Followed by the infested, sentients, corrupted, low level corpus and then regular corpus.

As far as an aura, that's what the combs and scrombs (can't really remember their real name) do, so it would have to be something different.

We have been talking about this...max powerstrength does different things for discharge and it's damage cap agains different factions...I have used shock on discharged targets...and don't notice anything important happening, but my energy being wasted.

Not impressed.

Sorry for my negativity though :/

Also, people have been advocating for warframe to be like dark souls. And it feels like it's been happening. So I will advocate for things too now.

 

Edited July 28, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Edit edit

[FitzSimmons]

11 hours ago, Aquasurge said:

we should probably wait until dmg 3.0 and electric procs get reworked

i wonder why electric damage mod conclave rating is the highest among all elements 

4 hours ago, Adder9 said:

I think shock is fine. It levels really well, and, with intensify or blind rage, it can get very powerful. If that's how you want your volt, you can mod for it quite easily, but at the cost of some energy (which, as I said, he has in spades). Shock is meant to be just that, a shock. It's a highly spammable first ability that excels at CC as a rapid acting taser. It generally kills enemies below level 20 outright for me, and higher for machines. I think it's fine overall. It doesn't need to be a cannon. If you want that, bring an amprex. Since shock is so usable, increasing its strength would make volt very OP.

i mean thats not what i want but what most people want in many threads i read, before and after volt rework. i never have problem with volt powers actually before or after rework, after rework they're much better. i always think volt as weapon master and will always be. what i want is for volt to make guns have electric proc when volt shoots through electric shield, rather than 50% electric damage i prefer 50% electric proc so people can enjoy one of the best thing in electric attribute, chain damageeeee

Edited July 28, 2016 by FitzSimmons

[RealPandemonium]

1 hour ago, Adder9 said:

I have very little problems with the power canceling enemies. Ranged attacks are a thing, and their bubbles break. I do think it would be better if the energy cancelling bubble was simply an area aura (i.e. we can see it, but it doesn't prevent attacks from passing through like a snow globe), but that's another topic. 

Warframe is warframe, not Infamous. You have three weapon slots and the ability to bring a companion for a reason, and that reason is so that you can maintain the right amont of force to meet your threats. If a damaging low power cost ability can instantly kill a large group of enemies, then it nullifies the use of other items. The game is about strategy and balance. 

Shock is cheap to cast, especially with efficiency mods, and can get very powerful with strength mods, which is the point of mods: if you want your shock to be that powerful, you can build your volt that way, but not everyone's volt and play style mandates that much power. As I said earlier, I only run intensify on my Volt Prime, which I sortie with, and I've never thought that shock was useless. It's damage didn't tank until my guns had become spit wad shooters anyway. It can be re-cast quite rapidly remember, and the stun proc is always useful. Your idea of allowing stunned enemies to be open to finishers is a good one though. I like it. 

If you want the cannon, then use discharge followed by shock. It works quite well. 

Good to see someone else that values the core gameplay of Warframe and doesn't want to sacrifice it at the altar of mindless power fantasy.  

[Adder9]

2 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

Good to see someone else that values the core gameplay of Warframe and doesn't want to sacrifice it at the altar of mindless power fantasy.  

Games are no fun without challenge. It's always more fun to win by skill in a close fight than to tank your way through while yawning like a god.

I think Volt is in a better place than he was after playing a while to adapt. I just think the shield moving function is annoying, and I want the air functionality and light chaining of overload back (I also miss the name, but I won't split hairs there too much). I think the ground requirement is unnecessay and the chaining off of loot crates is unhelpful.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

19 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

Good to see someone else that values the core gameplay of Warframe and doesn't want to sacrifice it at the altar of mindless power fantasy.  

Then you must really be unhappy with how much the game has changed from its "core". Remember those power creep things I was talking about?(if you read them?)

What is warframe supposed to be to you at it's core anyways?

This game tries to cater to everyone, but it's a cramped area, and everybody's fighting for what makes them comfortable in this game.

Civilized and calm response : if I could find something that correctly expressed my exact sentiments to you all, I would at least be able to stop arguing. But no meme or you tube video will express it, and my words aren't going to do it either as I have noticed and so at this point I just have to give up and follow the illusion that there are two different "sides" of people in warframe that want everything nerfed or everything buffed.

In warframe do you ever feel limited? Or do you feel free as a bird?

Do you honestly feel like you have every opportunity to overcome limitations? Or do you wish there were more/less?

Is this game fun in every single aspect of its design to you? Or do you want even more/less "challenge"?...

If you are not all one way or the other, than you do not fit in the mold of one side versus the other and are an oddity.

I am fine with warframe being what the developers want it to be, but not fine with one group of people acting as if they know exactly what is right for warframe (either of this imaginary sides).

Warframes being "over powered" was not an accident. The developers put that into the game the same way they did nullifiers. Everything in warframe now is the core of warframe. Now if you want to talk about the warframe design team versus the enemy design team theory, that's different.

Not civilized response:

 

Just stop with the false advertisement, and trying to rip my hopes and dreams out of my chest to sacrifice to the alter of "watered down, limited quote on quote "high" damage game characters who get wrecked by pleebs and trash mobs 

I don't honestly care about Volts damage, his shock or anything he does as long as he looks cool, like he used to, and people stop pretending like anything that doesn't crit or ignore armor can be passed off as having "high" damage. Enemies wiggling around is weak sauce.

But whatever. Let the limitations come. Buff nullifiers, buff bursa and Hyekka back up too, keep the Kela missions on sedna, everything anyone says is too much needs to be upped by three notches in difficulty, all while nerfing frames into the ground for balance.

 

Edited July 29, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Edited

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

Just one meme.

This explains a little bit.

Any way, wishing good things for volt and warframe. Peace.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

49 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Just one meme.

This explains a little bit.

Any way, wishing good things for volt and warframe. Peace.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Windy and RealP both make valid points.  The bottom line for me boils down to 4 basic issues:

1.  Is the frame fun to play?

2.  Does the frame excel at something to make it stand out?

3.  Is the frame competitive with other frames at high difficulties and therefore relevant in squads?

4.  Does the frame offer unique experiences in any way?

Satisfying all 4 of these conditions gives you the successful rework everyone is looking for.

I'm not looking for Volt to be a game-breaking damage frame, but I also know there is consistent sentiment that Riot Shield, while pretty and unique, is a restrictive, non-beneficial, parlor trick that is the opposite of fun...and the salt in the wound is how great it COULD be.

Discharge is functional but not fabulous.

Shock and Shield and Speed make Volt who he is, but the attempt to Synergize his kit as a whole still lends itself to frustrating contradiction.  Base Speed increase would mitigate this some.

His passive is a damage bandaid for beginners...not really useful for Vets.

May Volt be reborn.

And thanks to DE and all who have participated regardless of outcome.  You are ALL appreciated.

 

Edited July 29, 2016 by (PS4)Silverback73

[(PSN)ShiroPhyla]

On 7/14/2016 at 2:17 AM, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Really? You came back with the "fine as is" response? 

Ok, let's add in your statements to the equation of Toxic lash being able to be better and see where that goes.

Toxic lash decreases damage  taken by 60% while blocking, hopefully making up for the damage you take from enemies doing stuff behind you.

And some weapons increase range.

Oh wow, look, the ability is so perfect now, how did I not ever see that? 

Gosh, when you gave examples of situational solutions that don't always apply in every situation or may not be favorable and do nothing to make the ability as a whole better, my whole veiw of Toxic lash changed. (i assume because you are talking about weapons for no good reason)

Molt dies too fast.

Spores is on a timer and barely stays up for very long to even warrant the timer unless you use an ignis or some such thing.

And miasma is the only cc ability saryn has to help keep her alive.

 

T.o.x.I.c.

I'm sorry about that...it was kind of off point too.

health lost. I don't like it. Spreading spores and wiping the map with miasma is fine if it works, but 200 health lost leaves my saryn feeling squishy. Could I use steel fiber? Maybe, but I choose not to.

 

 

Then don't make the blazingly obvious mistake of any combat game: allowing enemies to be behind you?.... 

 

I'm not 100% sure if you're saying that pores don't last long enough? Unless they changed it aince I last played, they last long enough for me and people in my squad who are accross the largest rooms to make use of.

And since the rework that fixed her durp 1 trick pony playstyle, duration should be high on your priority list. 

As for Molt, I do feel that decoy clones like Loki's whachamacallit should have more HP so Loki can build for aomething other than invia build, cuz it gets boring not getting attention from enemies. Molt, howeve, is a bit different, her augment is kind of mandatory without a healer, and makes her nearly immortal, and when not immortal, you can drop a clone and bolt away while nearby enemies take viral and toxic damage. I remember my Spore explosions killing the small units in long survival all the time as well.. 

Anyhoot, I havn't used Saryn without her mostly sense making augment in a long time, but Lash bloxking + rejuv (her starting polarity) will probably help you a lot. Stop standing in the open, sto letting enemies shoot you in the butt like a senseless person, and cry for a Bombard fix with the rest of us when you see those. 

 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

1 hour ago, (PS4)ShiroPhyla said:

Then don't make the blazingly obvious mistake of any combat game: allowing enemies to be behind you?.... 

 

I'm not 100% sure if you're saying that pores don't last long enough? Unless they changed it aince I last played, they last long enough for me and people in my squad who are accross the largest rooms to make use of.

And since the rework that fixed her durp 1 trick pony playstyle, duration should be high on your priority list. 

As for Molt, I do feel that decoy clones like Loki's whachamacallit should have more HP so Loki can build for aomething other than invia build, cuz it gets boring not getting attention from enemies. Molt, howeve, is a bit different, her augment is kind of mandatory without a healer, and makes her nearly immortal, and when not immortal, you can drop a clone and bolt away while nearby enemies take viral and toxic damage. I remember my Spore explosions killing the small units in long survival all the time as well.. 

Anyhoot, I havn't used Saryn without her mostly sense making augment in a long time, but Lash bloxking + rejuv (her starting polarity) will probably help you a lot. Stop standing in the open, sto letting enemies shoot you in the butt like a senseless person, and cry for a Bombard fix with the rest of us when you see those. 

 

I tried to leave in peace, and you dig this up. Bait bitten. As someone else said, Saryn gripes belong in Saryn threads.

Official volt buisiness here, nothing to see.

 

Situational solution : "don't let enemies get behind you".

Don't get shot/don't get flanked. 

Iv been rolling for years, it's actually a terrible habit. Feels super ridiculous when doing a mission with normal people who just run and your falling over yourself on the ground like an idiot that can't walk straight.

Doesn't mean that in warframe you are ever going to have a moment where enemies are not behind you. Even if you spend the whole mission twirling around. Unless you are playing non endless missions, specifically exterminates...every enemy will be in front of you...I hate when people use exterminates in conversations as evidence of anything working correctly. Obviously though, it is apart of the game. Situationally, you won't have enemies behind you in the game, sometimes. 

Spores has a timer. But I can never keep spores up on enemies, spreading it from target to target long enough for the timer to even matter. The timer is just a countermeasure set up just in case players keep spores up longer than DE wants you to. Melee feels even worse at spreading spores than using a primary. Enemies die too quickly, and at the level where they can withstand my spores and my attacks long enough to spread the effect (grineer lvl 45-50) they are already destroying my molt, and murdering my health. 

3 things :

·I use venka, because I can and you can't tell me not to. They work perfectly fine.

·I run with saryn primes base armor of 250 and a vitality, regenerative molt, viazarin, healing things. No I don't have medi ray. No I don't have drift mods. No, I have not gone to the moon enough times to grind for them (or wherever you might get medi ray, if consoles even have that yet), just went to the moon to sight see and realize that sentients were nothing how I imagined theyd be.

·I am largely a solo player because my WiFi usually sucks. Usually. Like, I'm the game that causes doors to not open and loot to get stuck thousands of miles into the walls.

---> I am aware that I can recast and recast and recast spores every couple of seconds on every enemy I see. I do.

But a few situational solutions to these problems would be : Gas ignis/Aoe poison weapons that you aren't bringing for any other reason but for spores. 

And getting those healing mods, and sacrificing energy economy for life strike.

 And not letting enemies touch me.

What did you think you would accomplish by suggesting rejeuve to someone who has a problem staying alive...? Did you think I wasn't running it? Or the comment about standing out in the open?

I will download gameplay if you specifically wish to see me play saryn, but it you just want to know what it looks like when I play warframe, I'll dig up a post I did over nova. Just, that silly comment about standing out in the open.....

And I am building the mk1 ogris for the third time (once for the novelty of it and mastery fodder. 2 because it got changed visually and I was expecting it has finally been changed to the regular ogris that bombards use 3. Because I want to make an informed post about it and it's stupidity. I'm already half way there , half way there, halfway there*you look down and see a record stuck on repeat*

 

Edited July 29, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Medi

[RealPandemonium]

6 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Warframes being "over powered" was not an accident. The developers put that into the game the same way they did nullifiers. Everything in warframe now is the core of warframe. Now if you want to talk about the warframe design team versus the enemy design team theory, that's different.

Not quite true.  DE isn't closely familiar with the cutting edge of the game they make.  Things are often released and allowed to get out of hand for months or literal years before they are addressed, which in turn leads to derivative content that is itself misguided, since these issues are not even on DE's radar until long after release.  By the time DE reacts, they have already set the stage for a PR disaster (which we have seen many times with things like Miasma, Greedy Pull, Excaliburgate, etc) and widespread backlash to corrective actions.  

It's up to the verteran players who are in the know and grasp the ramifications of DE's changes, to speak out to preserve Warframe's gameplay amid newer generations of players who have known nothing but exploits and awkward omnipotence since they started playeing.  

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

7 hours ago, Adder9 said:

Games are no fun without challenge. It's always more fun to win by skill in a close fight than to tank your way through while yawning like a god.

I think Volt is in a better place than he was after playing a while to adapt. I just think the shield moving function is annoying, and I want the air functionality and light chaining of overload back (I also miss the name, but I won't split hairs there too much). I think the ground requirement is unnecessay and the chaining off of loot crates is unhelpful.

I went ahead and have you an upvote, but I don't agree with the blanket statement at the beginning, establishing that very unimportant fact now just so you know.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

16 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

Not quite true.  DE isn't closely familiar with the cutting edge of the game they make.  Things are often released and allowed to get out of hand for months or literal years before they are addressed, which in turn leads to derivative content that is itself misguided, since these issues are not even on DE's radar until long after release.  By the time DE reacts, they have already set the stage for a PR disaster (which we have seen many times with things like Miasma, Greedy Pull, Excaliburgate, etc) and widespread backlash to corrective actions.  

It's up to the verteran players who are in the know and grasp the ramifications of DE's changes, to speak out to preserve Warframe's gameplay amid newer generations of players who have known nothing but exploits and awkward omnipotence since they started playeing.  

Akward omipotence....i actually really agree with that.

A vigilante group of in the know veterans. Sounds cool.

I don't believe it's working as intended, but thats up for debate. 

May I ask...what was going on in the game when eximus units were added? That's about as far back as I can remember when things started to feel wrong...

 

 

[Cytobel]

2 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

*Snip*

May I ask...what was going on in the game when eximus units were added? That's about as far back as I can remember when things started to feel wrong...

 

 

Eximus units were dropped around the time pretty much all of us were howling about the "content" issue (specifically, it's lack).

I'm likely wrong here, but I seem to recall the original video teasing Grineer cold eximus' said something about them being specifically adapted for cold climates.  This led many of us to speculate about a new tileset.

I'm pretty sure this was around the time Archwingate happened.  Again, could be wrong, but may not be.

Hell, Nullifiers only happened because we raped the first Balor Formorians so badly that DE couldn't even respond for a while, and when they did it was the power nullification field idea (which I support FROM A BUILDING-SIZED REACTOR).  There was a ton of content just HAPPENING, no context or real planning particularly detectable.

It felt like there was a good 6 months to a year of knee-jerk game "design" in response to people just playing.

This is the timeframe I started saying there should be some mandatory vacations at DE, so people could recover from burnout.

Come to think of it, until Frost's rework I hadn't seen much I could call well thought out or planned.  And then there was that gem The Second Dream...  DE needs to channel some of whatever that was a bit more.  I suddenly remembered how this game started off.

All of that considered, you can understand why I had much higher hopes for this half-baked rework.  I thought we were on the rebound...

EDIT:  Mentioning Frost was a mistake.  Alright, is it just me or was there a suspicious degree of similarity between the logic for these two rebuilds?  Two 'Frames with wildly different needs should deserve different rework logic, right?

What am I talking about?  Think: castable shield rework with contentious mechanics, a rebuilt ult focusing on CC, and a "keystone" first ability that has limited use...

Of course, Frost came out ahead eventually.  The ideas were solid there and Cold damage is good against every faction, plus his pretty similar speed is offset by high armor.  Also, Snowglobe is a better reactive defense response (especially now that it freezes and expells enemies on cast) than a directional Electrical Shield.

On the flip side, I love the changes to Electric Shield (not so it's "interraction" with Shock or its Riot Shield mode), our Shock was solid to start (although it now has a recast timer, which is unwarranted and sucks slightly), and Speed is still Speed.

Aside from some problems with Discharge, an irrelevant in every situation passive, and Electrical damage being a bit bad we SHOULD be in a good place.  Yet we aren't.

Volt has some basic needs that haven't been addressed, and it shows.  He has seen little real change in years while most everything else has shifted.  This rework was due when Damage 2.0 dropped, and we're almost into Damage 3.0 now.

Base Volt and Prime both have issues with his lack of speed, and Base is struggling with that 15 armor and 150 energy pool.  Add on such intensive build requirements and present Electrical damage mediocrity...

TL;DR:  Damage 3.0 might fix a big portion of this problem, but we still need some reviews to the details of the 'Frame.  Most of the problems are small, and as a whole are far greater than the sum of the parts.  That's what drives me mad about this whole thing.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Cytobel
I opened my fat mouth....