Volt Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[Wolfnrun]

3 hours ago, Cytobel said:

Elemental Warframes should have at least partial resistance to their corresponding element.  We've said it for years.

Anyone else thing the Ember passive should just be a thing that an elemental 'Frame gets from being hit by it's element?  It'd be much more interesting to see Volt get turbocharged by lightning than spend a few minutes running in circles to get numbers.

EDIT: A master of electrical doom shouldn't be put off by a little storm...

It's common sense, also @(PS4)Silverback73 ready when you are

 

[Adder9]

On 7/29/2016 at 0:23 AM, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

I went ahead and have you an upvote, but I don't agree with the blanket statement at the beginning, establishing that very unimportant fact now just so you know.

You might not, and many don't, but I think the reason we gripe so much about power creep is that it's taking away the challenge of the game, which makes it boring and mentally unrewarding to play unless you want stuff. But... we're way off topic now. 

I think a good compromise to fix volt would be to allow discharge/overload to be used in the air and let it chain off lights again instead of loot crates. That's my sentiment, and it seems to be echoed here by a lot of people. Beyond that, I see a lot of people don't really like the riot shield function either (I don't) but I don't know of a compromise to propose other than pitching it or turning it into an augment (perhaps an augment that allows volt to pick up his shield and carry it while it covers an arc of 90/180/270/360 degrees and costs 4/3/2/1 power per unit of movement). Thoughts? It's not really my area. I tend to use shield as a fire and forget power. If I need another, I drop another. 

[RealPandemonium]

12 hours ago, Adder9 said:

Beyond that, I see a lot of people don't really like the riot shield function either (I don't) but I don't know of a compromise to propose other than pitching it or turning it into an augment (perhaps an augment that allows volt to pick up his shield and carry it while it covers an arc of 90/180/270/360 degrees and costs 4/3/2/1 power per unit of movement). Thoughts? It's not really my area. I tend to use shield as a fire and forget power. If I need another, I drop another. 

Why turn it into an augment?  If you don't want to pick up the shield, don't.  Turning it into an augment and making it overpowered would only make things worse and more complicated.  

[Adder9]

7 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

Why turn it into an augment?  If you don't want to pick up the shield, don't.  Turning it into an augment and making it overpowered would only make things worse and more complicated.  

You're not wrong. I simply notice that a lot of people don't like it, so I proposed a change.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

So...it's the challenge I challenged myself to that isn't much of a challenge...yay! (the "high" level corpus challenge)

I had a limited amount of time, and had to go over someone's house for good Wi-Fi.... So I just bum rushed though a mission for about 20 minutes...plus the ps4 Does a funny thing where it only saves videos at 15 minute increments, so it wouldn't have mattered anyways. 

I : had no powerstrength whatsoever because corpus.

I didn't count on the video cutting off, so did not write down my build....

    Used armored agility, capacitance, shocking speed, primed flow, primed continuity, equilibrium, the shield mod I'm pretty sure or rush, and then streamline for 130 efficiency. I didn't put rage on for some reason...

This is really just a silly video, but I put on my most serious build. I do not have drift mods for energy. I do have fleeting expertise, but did not feel the loss in duration to be worth it, so just streamline. Everything seems mostly fine (if you just want to settle). Discharge feels about the same as nekros' sotd in survivability, But discharge is worse because running away to cast it defeats the purpose of using it to stun and damage enemies...you can go for max range and hope you hit stuff will hiding in a storage room I guess...if you are overflowing with energy you can just use shields...

I killed myself once at the beginning, two minutes in right after switching to my penta, it takes a minute to warm up and remember where to be before you explode a grenade...the second time the door shut or opened at the wrong time an I wasn't ready for that....

My personal test: If I die more times from my penta than from enemies around me, the frame is ok at that level....:P

Anyways, so this is me using volt and doing things with his kit. If anything, you'll get a few laughs. Enjoy

 

Edited August 8, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
130% power strength, i had intensify on, thats what was wrong with my build

[Wolfnrun]

1 hour ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Anyways, so this is me using volt and doing things with his kit. If anything, you'll get a few laughs. Enjoy

I lost count of how many knockdown's you recived, but at 8:08 you can see how shock did nothing to the moa

Edited August 1, 2016 by Wolfnrun

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

1 minute ago, Wolfnrun said:

I lost count of how many knockdown's you recived 

My mind has become numb to it. The person I was a year ago would have been complaining on the forums about spam knockdown in place of actually difficult enemies. Now I just make snarky side comments about it under my breath like so.

To my credit, I dodged most of the orange ones, and just got screwed over by the blue ones (i wasn't sure where they were coming from)

[Wolfnrun]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

To my credit, I dodged most of the orange ones, and just got screwed over by the blue ones (i wasn't sure where they were coming from)

Just finished, ohhh that was such a tragic ending. Misson failed. Nice try though, you gave it you'r best. Try a corpus sortie if you can, I can only imagine how that would turn out

Edited August 1, 2016 by Wolfnrun

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

5 minutes ago, Wolfnrun said:

Just finished, ohhh that was such a tragic ending. Misson failed. Nice try though, you gave it you'r best. Try a corpus sortie if you can, I can only imagine how that would turn out

Yes, I'll try. I wanted to see how long I could take volt solo. With a little more free time, and maybe my quanta instead, I can accomplish some things...

Thanks for watching:)

Edited August 1, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Edit

[----Dante----]

3 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

So...it's the challenge I challenged myself to that isn't much of a challenge...yay! (the "high" level corpus challenge)

 

well not solo or a corpus but this is zenurik hybrid volt vs excalibur and valkyr in t4 surv, wanted to see which 1 survives longer and apparently it was me as Volt

 

And this is Zenurik hybrid Volt vs Naramon Volt in t4 surv, sadly the naramon Volt had to go.

 

ill do high lvl corpus survival once i get back home

[FitzSimmons]

8 hours ago, Wolfnrun said:

Just finished, ohhh that was such a tragic ending. Misson failed. Nice try though, you gave it you'r best. Try a corpus sortie if you can, I can only imagine how that would turn out

turned out my volt on corpus sortie always have overshield because of capacitance with electric chain everywhere from discharge, im so satisfied. thanks DE. before rework my ult wont do a thing, not even with capacitance, now capacitance is really good 

[FitzSimmons]

i will post my suggestion for volt power combo here, already made a thread but it doesnt hurt to put this here 

ES + Shock with Shock Trooper = make Volt can use his own shock trooper to benefit himself by casting shock on electric shield, boost additional 100% electric damage by default if volt doesn't use power strength mod, so ES + Shock Trooper without strength mod will boost 150% electric damage. that goes to riot shield as well.

ES + Discharge = if Volt or ally shoot one discharged enemy through ES, the damage will chained to other enemies that has electric link caused by discharge, the damage to that other enemies is 75% of actual damage dealt to main target, thats if 100% is too strong. can't get past 75% of main damage. that goes to riot shield as well.

ES + Shock + Speed = if Volt use Speed then run through ES that's affected by Shock with/without Shock Trooper, Volt will get additional electric damage for melee, the bonus is 50% without Shock Trooper and get bigger damage bonus with Shock Trooper same as ES + Shock Trooper combo. can only be applied to Volt, if the duration of Speed is over, Volt need to do the combo again to get the bonus damage on melee, unless Volt recast Speed before the duration is over.

Since electric attribute isn't only about stun but chain damage as well, i think Volt deserves to have that chain damaging characteristic as well aside from pure power damage. it's a waste to not use that electric damage characteristic on Volt.

 

[(PSN)StarDustKillah]

On 7/14/2016 at 1:58 AM, (PS4)ShiroPhyla said:

Toxic Lash+ Block? Use a whip for uber range. Or a Tonbo. 

Shouldn't have be restricted to Whips & Polearms...

Especially since she Saryn Prime is always shown using the Nikana Prime.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

2 hours ago, (PS4)StarDustKillah said:

Shouldn't have be restricted to Whips & Polearms...

Especially since she Saryn Prime is always shown using the Nikana Prime.

Tell this to the guys arguing about how Nullifiers are not broken

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

On 8/1/2016 at 3:13 PM, Dante123pl said:

well not solo or a corpus but this is zenurik hybrid volt vs excalibur and valkyr in t4 surv, wanted to see which 1 survives longer and apparently it was me as Volt

 

And this is Zenurik hybrid Volt vs Naramon Volt in t4 surv, sadly the naramon Volt had to go.

 

ill do high lvl corpus survival once i get back home

Did you have time? (No rush)

[----Dante----]

11 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Did you have time? (No rush)

Zenurik hybrid Volt:

65 min~ would make it longer but i ran out of oxygen ;-;

 

 

 

[----Dante----]

^also i think Volt shouldnt be starter frame anymore, new player ill have painfull experience cause volt requires alot of investments and experience in game to be somewhat viable.

[Wolfnrun]

47 minutes ago, Dante123pl said:

^also i think Volt shouldnt be starter frame anymore, new player ill have painfull experience cause volt requires alot of investments and experience in game to be somewhat viable.

Agreed, I think it's time for that to change, I'm so tired with volt having this starter image...It's been way to long  

[FitzSimmons]

3 hours ago, Dante123pl said:

^also i think Volt shouldnt be starter frame anymore, new player ill have painfull experience cause volt requires alot of investments and experience in game to be somewhat viable.

that i can agree, i think starter frames need to be divided into categories, offensive, defensive, and support. mag shouldn't be starter as well.

Edited August 4, 2016 by FitzSimmons

[RealPandemonium]

None of the starters really take off until you get mods anyway, so there's no major disparity among them IMO.  It's not like, say, Rhino is a starter and picking him is a no-brainer (though he's pretty much a quasi-starter.)

Edited August 4, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[(PSN)cyp_HeXagon]

A few words about Discharge post rework...

Discharge's damage output as well as max health damage cap to each enemy scale with power strength. Having 100% power, strength enemies  by it will start receiving 225 electric damage per tick (1 tick/0.5 secs) 4 secs after ability cast. The health damage cap is at 4000. That means the enemy stun duration is limited to [4000 / (225x2) + 4] = 12.88 secs no matter how high you try to build your power duration (Source: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Volt/Abilities). Since both damage over time and health cap scale along with power strength, that means the stun duration will remain the same. For example, 70% power strength yields 2800 health cap and 157.5 dmg/tick (damage over time stat u see in wf abilities overview is dmg/sec or dmg/2 ticks) that equals to 12.88 secs stun duration....again. 

To make matters even more complicated, after a few simulacrum tests the whole math calculation thing just goes out the window. Non armored enemies like infested at level 80 seem to brake free in about 4-5 secs, that means almost instantly after the 4s invulnerability period. On the other hand Grineers (lvl80 Heavy gunners in this test), because of their heavy armor seem to take a lot less damage per tick and stay stunned for well over 20s or surpass the ability duration timer. That's so baffling. The stun effect duration of discharge is so unpredictable that renders a volt cc build useless. Its damage vs time. U can only hope to deliver damage equal to the health cap or less over a specific period of time. 

So obviously Discharge's rework is intended to be used mostly with power strength builds. My question is WHY?

Doesn't that oppose the whole philosophy of modding? Were supposed to control a wf's potential by making different builds.

Suggestion: 

Do NOT remove the health cap! Just dont make it scale with anything. That will uncomplicate discharge's use and make it more straight forward. It will give the freedom to players in building a true cc build or a strength build. Lower power strength yields more stun duration but less damage ie a cc build. Higher power strength yields lower stun duration but higher damage output. The health cap pool (now 4000 at 100% pwr strenght) might need a rethink to find a good balance between cc or strength build. Stabilize the damage output. Discahrge's damage over time output should contribute to reaching health cap, NOT the enemy's intake damage. That makes the ability a lot more predictable despite the faction you're fighting against (check infested-grineer examples above). Also by not removing the health cap, discharge cant be spamable which is in agreement of DE's new "balancing" policy.

Give us the freedom to choose!

Edited August 4, 2016 by (PS4)HelXlagon

[Adder9]

7 hours ago, (PS4)HelXlagon said:

A few words about Discharge post rework...

Discharge's damage output as well as max health damage cap to each enemy scale with power strength. Having 100% power, strength enemies  by it will start receiving 225 electric damage per tick (1 tick/0.5 secs) 4 secs after ability cast. The health damage cap is at 4000. That means the enemy stun duration is limited to [4000 / (225x2) + 4] = 12.88 secs no matter how high you try to build your power duration (Source: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Volt/Abilities). Since both damage over time and health cap scale along with power strength, that means the stun duration will remain the same. For example, 70% power strength yields 2800 health cap and 157.5 dmg/tick (damage over time stat u see in wf abilities overview is dmg/sec or dmg/2 ticks) that equals to 12.88 secs stun duration....again. 

To make matters even more complicated, after a few simulacrum tests the whole math calculation thing just goes out the window. Non armored enemies like infested at level 80 seem to brake free in about 4-5 secs, that means almost instantly after the 4s invulnerability period. On the other hand Grineers (lvl80 Heavy gunners in this test), because of their heavy armor seem to take a lot less damage per tick and stay stunned for well over 20s or surpass the ability duration timer. That's so baffling. The stun effect duration of discharge is so unpredictable that renders a volt cc build useless. Its damage vs time. U can only hope to deliver damage equal to the health cap or less over a specific period of time. 

So obviously Discharge's rework is intended to be used mostly with power strength builds. My question is WHY?

Doesn't that oppose the whole philosophy of modding? Were supposed to control a wf's potential by making different builds.

Suggestion: 

Do NOT remove the health cap! Just dont make it scale with anything. That will uncomplicate discharge's use and make it more straight forward. It will give the freedom to players in building a true cc build or a strength build. Lower power strength yields more stun duration but less damage ie a cc build. Higher power strength yields lower stun duration but higher damage output. The health cap pool (now 4000 at 100% pwr strenght) might need a rethink to find a good balance between cc or strength build. Stabilize the damage output. Discahrge's damage over time output should contribute to reaching health cap, NOT the enemy's intake damage. That makes the ability a lot more predictable despite the faction you're fighting against (check infested-grineer examples above). Also by not removing the health cap, discharge cant be spamable which is in agreement of DE's new "balancing" policy.

Give us the freedom to choose!

This is largely why I liked overload better. I feel that the new mechanics of discharge make Capcatiance mandatory for it to be really protective since it takes a long time to do its damage. Since the enemies stay where they were, they basically become either bullet sponges or obstacles, either way being a hindrance. It's rarely my discharge that kills them, but rather me or someone else shooting the weakened enemy, if simply because they are either still in the way (defense, interception, etc), or because "ain't nobody got time for that" (exterminate, sabotage, etc). Overload could at least hit and be done, even if it was for less damage. It would clear the weaker enemies and stun the bigger ones for a bit, and that was all I needed. This, just.... doesn't work as well, even if it does more damage. 

[Adder9]

Random Syntax comment: if discharge can't be cast in the air, why does volt jump in the air to cast it?

And a random idea: instead of the static buildup mechanic, why not make Volt "absorb" a portion of the electricity damage he takes and then use this damage on his next shock or melee attack? For balance purposes, he could still take damage from the electricity normally, but the amount of damage he takes would add to a special counter and then discharge on his next relevant attack. This would level better and, I think, fits with the persona of "master of lightning." If DE felt like being really fancy, they could even add an increase to the lightning bolts that normally surround volt as the amount of stored energy increased. Thoughts anyone?

Edited August 5, 2016 by Adder9
Added idea

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

The reason I believe they do not want discharge air cast is because it would mess up their spread mechanic for it...my thoughts. And I'm not a game designer, but I'm going to throw out a suggestion and label it a simple solution.

"When volt air casts discharge, a thunderbolt ( like the very same one that strikes down on volt primes shock animation) will touch the ground and spread the effect from volt to that point. You can air cast discharge in this way now, jumping over all the one hit kill enemies, leaving them shocked and keep going, because the ability will (should) still spread the same way. Just for the sake of how the ability spreads...I don't know what else to say on that....other than just add the animation from the Alad v warframe trailer.

Get rid of the damage cap, and the stun lock is stupid. Massive aoe cc is bad, and the fact that this is a thing makes me think enemy scaling and damage will never be looked at, because we have gimmicks to stop the enemies from hurting us, until they all become nullifiers...

[Aquasurge]

we have some good news for ES, DE is fixing scorch's flamethrowers soon. (so hopefully, no more flames through ES)