Volt Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

I wish Volts shock would tesla coil one target.

I wish Volt could get energy from speed kills on tesla coiled enemies like Saryn does with toxic lash kills on targets affected by spores...

Or I wish Volts base duration for speed had been increased.

Recasting it over and over and sucking energy because it has a restrictingly low duration is why they thought energy on spore kills would be helpful and why they thought she needed the same energy pool volt has.

I wish Volts ult could be cast in the air. I just desperately wish it.

Sheild healing...What should I be feeling about this? 9/10 I have to just expose my self to enemies, just stop caring about incoming damage or what might be around me and just rely on capacitance to save me. That, or cast it hidden away from everything and come back out to see I only got 2 or 3 enemies with discharge.

I die a little inside every time. Because the exploding lights extended the range much farther.

Zenurik sure sounds nice. Currently grinding my face into the affinity wall slumped over in regret...

Riot shield is a waste of time.

I shock my shield and wonder how much extra damage I'm doing...can't hate it, shield was the only decent thing they did for Volt. I watch splosions and kind of just sit there behind it feeling a calm sort of resignmeny to the fact that this is .....

I don't have the available energy to spare to spam powers. Saryn spams low duration powers for survival. Volt sparingly uses low duration powers for survival.

I havnt actually built my volt to stun things, I have range on everything, it just works in lor because armor....

The passive doesn't actually exist.

Assimilation:

Iv just started using capacitance, because thats what you are supposed to use I guess...

I'm going to increase my reliance on focus schools because thats what's expected now.

I'll just take casual strolls among the bright shiny faces of my enemies and forgo actually fighting them like I used to with old Volt.

Or 

I'll for ever think about how old volt was better. Even though the shield sucked.

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Edit

[FitzSimmons]

On 8/20/2016 at 7:25 PM, Toramaru said:

Hahahahahahahaha, come on! If we start hating Volt who's gonna love the poor bastard?!

me? he is great so how can i hate the great volt? i can do everything with him, every mission. just because his rework didn't satisfy you doesn't mean he is bad. you can compare him with any frame on all missions. 

Edited August 31, 2016 by FitzSimmons

[FitzSimmons]

On 8/29/2016 at 3:33 AM, Dante123pl said:

at 48 pages of complaints about how pointless volt rework was DE came and said "rework was well recived"

it is well received, those who complain a lot from this thread are same people, even i barely see new names who complain on each page :/

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

4 minutes ago, FitzSimmons said:

it is well received, those who complain a lot from this thread are same people, even i barely see new names who complain on each page :/

They changed unnecessary stuff that should have been left alone. This thread should be dead by rights, if their just fix 2 things, it would be

[LunarEdge7]

28 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Recasting it over and over and sucking energy because it has a restrictingly low duration is why they thought energy on spore kills would be helpful and why they thought she needed the same energy pool volt has.

I wish Volts ult could be cast in the air. I just desperately wish it.

I only wish they did both of this.

I disliked his pre-ulti which was Overload, because its full potential could only be unleashed once in every big corridor.

Now I use his ulti without worrying about doing less than what I want it to.

Speed recasting doesn't feel like it has any major energy decline to me. Maybe my build/playstyle just doesn't use more strength and stuff. But it'd be cool to use Discharge, then Speed-kill people and get some amount of energy back.

[FitzSimmons]

Just now, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

They changed unnecessary stuff that should have been left alone. This thread should be dead by rights, if their just fix 2 things, it would be

they did that on several frame before arent they?

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

14 minutes ago, LunarEdge7 said:

I only wish they did both of this.

I disliked his pre-ulti which was Overload, because its full potential could only be unleashed once in every big corridor.

Now I use his ulti without worrying about doing less than what I want it to.

Speed recasting doesn't feel like it has any major energy decline to me. Maybe my build/playstyle just doesn't use more strength and stuff. But it'd be cool to use Discharge, then Speed-kill people and get some amount of energy back.

I have to hide from things to use his ult, so when I pop my head back around the corner to look, I usually only have a small group of enemies that got affected by it. Because enemies can't shoot for shrimp above their heads, jumping right on top of one always worked better and was much more fun. Of course now I just equip capacitance and slump out into the open and do a little weak jump while everyone shoots me, and hope my shields don't eat it before the animation is up. 

Edited August 31, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Edit

[LunarEdge7]

Just now, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

I have to hide from things to use his ult, so when I prep my head back around the corner to look, I usually only have a small group of enemies that got affected by it. Because enemies can't shoot for shrimp above their heads, jumping right on top of one always worked better and was much more fun. Of course now I just equip capacitance and slump out into the open and do a little weak jump while everyone shoots me, and hope my shields don't eat it before the animation is up. 

So I guess, you just wish for mid-air ulti-casting to be back on Volt? Cuz' like I said, me too.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

6 minutes ago, FitzSimmons said:

they did that on several frame before arent they?

DE would be much loved if they would stop it. 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

3 minutes ago, LunarEdge7 said:

So I guess, you just wish for mid-air ulti-casting to be back on Volt? Cuz' like I said, me too.

Yeah. I promise you we aren't crazy. Mid air ult casting volt, riot shield limits are unnecesary, scrap it or fix it, maybe a little duration increase or energy regen/synergy. I'd be okish, and would stop posting here, although shock is very weird, as it doesn't always give the same results in cast, sometimes a level 20 grineer lancer will have almost no health lost, sometimes they will be left with an almost empty health bar...sometimes corpus robotics won't even receive a stun. There's a lot of nonsense at play...it's almost as if the ability is crit based, but very weak. Or could be something weird on my end.

[Cytobel]

I'm going to declare right now I am crazy, so you don't have to look at the ability replacement suggestions I've made all that seriously.  On the other hand, most of the feedback I've given has criticized the unnecessary and stupendously gratuitous limitations/costs of Riot Shield and the loss of air-cast to Discharge.

Fix these two, and maybe give electric damage some love, and Volt would be in a good spot.

Yes, the base stats aren't lining up with any form of Melee, so Speed seems superfluous at best (more likely dangerous for Volt) outside of a Naramon lens.  Without a Zenurik lens it seems like it's just an energy tax.  No happy medium there, and when coupled with the requirements for a Speed build you get the reasons I'd rather just not have the skill.

So, maybe a third item?  A bump to the base duration of Speed, just so that we don't have that bit of extra weight on the build.

Three items then.  Simple enough.  Sane enough.

[LunarEdge7]

P.S: At least change his description, DE! Volt as he is now is more of a potent boost to gunplay.

Excalibur should be described as good for new players AND an alternative to gunplay instead. He's all about getting up close and personal.

Edited August 31, 2016 by LunarEdge7

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

3 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

I'm going to declare right now I am crazy, so you don't have to look at the ability replacement suggestions I've made all that seriously.  On the other hand, most of the feedback I've given has criticized the unnecessary and stupendously gratuitous limitations/costs of Riot Shield and the loss of air-cast to Discharge.

Fix these two, and maybe give electric damage some love, and Volt would be in a good spot.

Yes, the base stats aren't lining up with any form of Melee, so Speed seems superfluous at best (more likely dangerous for Volt) outside of a Naramon lens.  Without a Zenurik lens it seems like it's just an energy tax.  No happy medium there, and when coupled with the requirements for a Speed build you get the reasons I'd rather just not have the skill.

So, maybe a third item?  A bump to the base duration of Speed, just so that we don't have that bit of extra weight on the build.

Three items then.  Simple enough.  Sane enough.

No, shhhh, I'm trying to calm them down by pretending to be normal. Ssshhhh

I forgot for one second about the electric damage, that too.

[voltocitygel]

14 hours ago, LunarEdge7 said:

Hmm, I should try that build. Any use of corrupted mods involved?

Also, I use speed for boosting melee attack speed AND fire rate if I need a lil' boost of DPS to get rid a tough enemy.

No corrupted mods. I use primed continuity, intensify, primed flow, quick thinking, redirection, steel fiber, capacitance, power drift, and streamline. Aura I prefer is energy siphon, but that's just personal preference. I also use the arcane storm helmet, that's how my str is 155 without corrupted mods. (Been playing since the first weekend of open beta.)

[LunarEdge7]

16 hours ago, voltocitygel said:

No corrupted mods. I use primed continuity, intensify, primed flow, quick thinking, redirection, steel fiber, capacitance, power drift, and streamline. Aura I prefer is energy siphon, but that's just personal preference. I also use the arcane storm helmet, that's how my str is 155 without corrupted mods. (Been playing since the first weekend of open beta.)

Ah, thanks for the build.

I always seem to use Arcane Storm Helmet, since I have it as well AND it's my one and only Arcane helmet. Makes me feel a little more special. Oh, and because he really looks like he belongs to the Arbiters of Hexis with this helm.

[voltocitygel]

1 hour ago, LunarEdge7 said:

Ah, thanks for the build.

I always seem to use Arcane Storm Helmet, since I have it as well AND it's my one and only Arcane helmet. Makes me feel a little more special. Oh, and because he really looks like he belongs to the Arbiters of Hexis with this helm.

No problem. It works quite well for me.

yeah, I had about 10 arcane helms, but ended up trading most of them since I only really use volts. And I totally agree, there are some interesting theories on why his storm helmet looks so much like the arbiters helmets. At least ones I've heard. Arbiters were my primary group until I discovered that I could be in 4 syndicates at once, and immediately swapped to that. 

[Toramaru]

There are those of us who only ever use speed because there's nothing good enough to spend energy on...

 

This is still viable. No longer fun though. Other Frames do this better, specially considering end game content.

[Cytobel]

@Toramaru:  See, the thing (for me at least) against Speed is beautifully illustrated by your post.  It's not wrong to love mad-dogging with Volt. It's wrong that this is basically all he does really well, and then only with the build.

I'm not saying he's not capable in other builds.  I'm saying he has no real focus otherwise.  Think about it.  People are raving about the stun aspect he has because it's a thing he can actually do now (and I'm not going to claim he does a great job of it either).  The thing is he has a few tricks, but they really aren't about area denial (they try to be), they're not really reliable CC, they're crap as damage...

Volt has Speed, and nothing else ties to it.  Either we should expect a rework to pull him together a bit more or we should see a more solid diversity of options.  Basically, he's overbalanced, underpowered, or unfocused.  Maybe a little of each.

It's frustrating, because going for a "generalist" would've worked if he had a passive to really build off of.  A silent 5th ability, if you will.  Don't count the stun on your bullets as being this.  It's a good bonus, not an "always-on" passive ability like he needs.  Yeah, I get that such a thing isn't really very "passive", but it was needed here.

A good generalist gets more utility out of each thing he does.  Electric Shield works (if only Riot Shield were usable here!), and but for the lack of air-cast so does Discharge.  Speed is quite strong, just really too exclusive in its build.  Shock has taken quiet nerfs that make it FAR less than we need for the slot.  If only we had a passive that could tie these together into a solid package.

I'm not looking for "overpowered" here, I just want to counter the feelings of "overbalanced" and/or "unfocused".

Edited September 2, 2016 by Cytobel

[LunarEdge7]

11 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

Basically, he's overbalanced, underpowered, or unfocused.

.. What's overbalanced? I've only heard of imbalance and balance.

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

21 minutes ago, LunarEdge7 said:

What's overbalanced?

an oxymoron.

[LunarEdge7]

1 minute ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

an oxymoron.

Hah. I like how it's called oxy'moron'. Made me chuckle.

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

24 minutes ago, LunarEdge7 said:

Hah. I like how it's called oxy'moron'. Made me chuckle.

that's because both are derived of the greek word μωρός = dull. oxymoron is in fact an oxyomoron itself :).

volt is (relatively) balanced and that is, of course, a good thing. if anything he should be the benchmark for frame designs. imo.

Edited September 2, 2016 by Kotsender_Quasimir
typo

[Cytobel]

Honestly I appreciate the irony there.

The idea, far as it goes, seems to be that Volt has more factors mitigating what he does that basically any other 'Frame, save Trinity.  This is an issue to people because Trin is absolutely broken at the core, as she can restore both Health AND Energy (the damage reduction and heal with damage reduction are icing on the cake).  Volt is simply nowhere near Trin, but he has much of the same thought going into his limitating factors.  More thought to his limits than to his abilities themselves, point of fact.

I'm all for something being balanced, but there's a difference between balance and "middle-of-the-road" mediocrity.  The current take on Volt seems to favor the concept of mitigation over any specific distinguishing characteristics.  He has things about him that aren't BAD, but nothing which particularly stands out, even at the expense of his ability to do things.

-Damage:  Electric damage is, at this moment, a joke.  It's THERE, but it isn't good against most of the game's enemies.  Even the Corpus units that it should be useful against have Shields, thus rendering them somewhat resistant to it.  Yes it's a stun, but only a very short one.  Yes it's AoE, but it's radial too, so its not very dangerous to neighboring targets.  This could change at any time, but I wouldn't bet on it.  [If electricity left enemies open to finishers it'd probably be too much, but at least it'd give it something to recommend it]

-Utility:  Stun-ish passive, a similar stun-ish 1st ability.  Speed makes you VERY hard to kill if built right, but you lose everything else to make that happen.  Electric Shield is good, but it's either Speed OR ES, partially due to the fact that DE punishes us for using Riot Shield, but also because they're not otherwise compatable in concept.  Discharge is (again) a stun, but somewhat more serious this time.  It's sad that there are so many stuns in Volt's kit, but they're either too much AND unreliable, or not enough and free.  His one buff offers too little to make for a good support role.

-Survival:  If nothing can hit him, he survives quite well.  This is the same for every other 'Frame, and so isn't a factor in his benefit.  He has ES and Speed, but you cannot rely on either (without the Speed build).  Nothing to recommend here at all.

-----------------------------------------------------

TL;DR:

Maybe I have a different notion of balance, but I feel that it shouldn't overwrite or supersede basic levels of capability in a 'Frame.  As I said, a generalist should be generally good.  Having a number of abilities that can be built into something good BUT have opposing requirements leaves us without the option of being generally good.  I feel like this defeats the point of generalism entirely.

EDIT:  For comparison, my build.  No, I don't feel like I'm losing a lot from the relatively low Duration.  Efficiency MORE than makes up for it.  Also I can use the Arcane Helmets whenever I want.  I didn't trash mine.  I just enjoy the Arrestor Helmet.

Edited September 2, 2016 by Cytobel
Reasons. Good ones.

[LunarEdge7]

2 hours ago, Cytobel said:

-snip-

I only know that he is kinda lack-ish in terms of enjoyment compared to the other elemental frames. I seem to like using the other elemental frames more over him, save for Frost (since I've been using him as my most used and wanted to move on from that, getting a lil' bored of Frost atm).

I'd just like more synergy between Shock and Discharge, and to remove either the energy drain or pause the duration while using the Shield as a Riot Shield.

I can imagine Shock to make all Discharge'd enemies to chain their dmg to one another for 2-5 seconds regardless of range?

And using Discharge with any existing Shields in its range should electrify them like Shock does to the Shields.

I'd like it if the electrified Shields themselves could actually stun instead of doing weak dmg to any enemies that have touched it.

Edited September 2, 2016 by LunarEdge7

[Cytobel]

2 hours ago, LunarEdge7 said:

*snip*

Isn't that reasonable?  Doesn't that sound like it'd bring things closer together WITHOUT the need for massive reworks, new exotic forms of ability mitigating costs or restrictions?  Doesn't the current version of Volt need this kind of tweaking?

Because we asked for far less to start, and got basically nothing but barely mentioned tweaks, silent nerfs, and just another reason to hate the drain that makes Riot Shield totally non-viable.

At this point it feels like we're asking for less spit in the porridge.  Yeah, that's how I feel.

It's sad too.  What we asked for at first was just a removal of some or most to Riot Shield's cost, air cast on Discharge, more than 4 E Shields, and work on Discharge's spread mechanics.

Now we just need the air cast, Riot Shield costs/restrictions pruned to something vaguely realistic (completely cut at least 1 of the energy costs and maybe the main gun restriction WITHOUT ADDING MORE BS COSTS), and this herd of silent nerfs need to be looked into AND ANNOUNCED TO THE GENERAL PLAYERBASE.

And that mess should explain why some of us have kept this thread basically on page one since some poor Dev I don't even recognize was asked say "all's well!"  and bury it.  It felt underhanded and dishonest.  Heck, I would've been okay with "well get back to this when the main team isn't completely swamped".  Anything other than "the rework has been generally well received" *UNPIN*.

P.S.,  I can't help but put ideas I like up here as possible alternatives to what we have.  I'm happy to see people happy with Volt, but he isn't a friendly to build or play.  Especially not now.  He grows so strongly, and he evolves so far with mods...  there's so much to him, and he needs so little work to make him amazing it hurts.  He's so close it's maddening.

Edited September 2, 2016 by Cytobel