Volt Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[SylvenStar]

I return to this thread seemingly almost a month later... No progress has been made whatsoever. Until DE decides to slow down with pumping out all of the 3.0 mechanics along with the many changes to the conclave and Lunaro (which wasn't really asked for to the degree that Volt changes were), I don't see major fixes to any "old" content, let alone a true rework/rebalance/whatever Volt needs to be the Volt we all hope to get. We have 64 pages of the same arguments being made over and over and over by many of the same people, some new to the thread, and we have seen next to no response from DE at all, which was simply the addition of Riot Shield bash.

As for the arguments that Volt should be left alone, I say this to you: Whether Volt is unviable or not, it cannot be denied that something is definitely wrong when there is this much unrest, lasting for this long. You wouldn't be dealing with so many of us pushing this point if the point didn't exist. Volt is definitely not perfect where he is. Is he better than before? Yes! Absolutely! Now tell me where people are saying that Volt is worse, because I don't see anybody arguing that. There's also a point to be made here: We should never settle for "Good enough." Warframe would not be as amazing as it is today if all of the players settled for merely "Good enough." We're here to push Warframe to its potential, not tell the Devs, "Okay, you can stop here, this is good."

It seems the only way to bring this to DE's attention is to shout out during the streams, and even then, the odds of being heard are minimal. The only thing to do is to come up with balances and reworks so that we have a gigantic buffet of ideas for DE to work with when they finally pay us a visit.

Edited September 14, 2016 by SylvenStar

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

On 9/14/2016 at 1:09 PM, SylvenStar said:

I return to this thread seemingly almost a month later... No progress has been made whatsoever. Until DE decides to slow down with pumping out all of the 3.0 mechanics along with the many changes to the conclave and Lunaro (which wasn't really asked for to the degree that Volt changes were), I don't see major fixes to any "old" content, let alone a true rework/rebalance/whatever Volt needs to be the Volt we all hope to get. We have 64 pages of the same arguments being made over and over and over by many of the same people, some new to the thread, and we have seen next to no response from DE at all, which was simply the addition of Riot Shield bash.

As for the arguments that Volt should be left alone, I say this to you: Whether Volt is unviable or not, it cannot be denied that something is definitely wrong when there is this much unrest, lasting for this long. You wouldn't be dealing with so many of us pushing this point if the point didn't exist. Volt is definitely not perfect where he is. Is he better than before? Yes! Absolutely! Now tell me where people are saying that Volt is worse, because I don't see anybody arguing that. There's also a point to be made here: We should never settle for "Good enough." Warframe would not be as amazing as it is today if all of the players settled for merely "Good enough." We're here to push Warframe to its potential, not tell the Devs, "Okay, you can stop here, this is good."

It seems the only way to bring this to DE's attention is to shout out during the streams, and even then, the odds of being heard are minimal. The only thing to do is to come up with balances and reworks so that we have a gigantic buffet of ideas for DE to work with when they finally pay us a visit.

Yeah.

*Basking in the agreement*

3 people blocking your argument:

A lot of people argue against further changes, because they don't want to see volt turned into something he isn't/wasnt in their minds (stupid hard cc cheese frame discharge std ability that doesn't let me cast in air..... Angry salty spaztic spazzing....)

And some people have only just started playing him again and like how he works now. Sheild buff and Discharge cheese.

And some people acknowledge the issues, but believe that DE will eventually, one day, come back and fix them ( I could say so much..."when pigs fly" "a cold day in hell" "I'll trust them as far as I can throw them" "if you want something done, do it yourself" "wish in one hand, **** in another and see which one gets filled first" "Soon™"

 

My brand of "let's stop trying to make things better" that is pessimism:

I refuse to build for power strength. Its a waste of mod space to me. The stun lasts however long it lasts, and does how ever much damage it feels like doing. I just play the game as if my discharge got nerfed to only ground cast and no longer chains through the environment, which it did. I just use mobility mods to run faster, and rely on speed the same way I use toxic lash, a super short but sort of noticeable melee boost, because even with primed continuity (one dot away from being maxed) my speed duration is only 16 seconds...I think toxic lash actually lasts a little longer...

I still shock tesla coiled stuff sometimes, just to see if there is some aspect of rng to this synergy it's supposed to have with discharge...

I use shock as an rng ability. Sometimes it damages things, sometimes it stuns them, and sometimes nothing happens....don't really trust it, just cast just in case it does work and keep going.

Riot sheild doesn't exist. 

Regular electric sheild is nice.

Running around with an amprex and the bullet spring mod makes me feel a little better inside...I can play along and be nice, and pretend like everyone else...

And one day I will have enough standing to unlock Zenurik. And the one day in the future after that, I will have energy overflow.

And they are adding another frame...that makes 31 I believe....who is supposed to make sure all of these frames get fixed? (DE) scott?....

*look, look at my barren field of hopes.*

Do I think anything is going to happen? Nope. I still agree with you though.

.....So yeah... I guess I'm saying you are right on all accounts, but there is no reason to even believe that anything will happen for volt. I no longer believe in anything anymore. But nekros was wronged harder, and has more pages to show for it, with even less response from devs (none) , so everything is terrible and nothing will change.

....agreement though. Thumbs up and stuff...

 

.

Edited September 15, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Edited

[Cytobel]

A big part of the reluctance to fix issues seems to stem from some vague notion that there is balance to be found in unfriendly mechanical interactions.  The root cause of much of the balance woes appears to be those perfectly balanced and in no way game breaking Corrupted mods.

The only Corrupted mod I often use is Transient Fortitude, and only because I fight to keep Speed effective.  More and more I'm feeling like the largest stumbling block for DE is a deep-seated need to justify the existence of these mods, and trying to balance those mods has led us to situations like these with reworks/rebuilds.

There are many issues causing imbalances for the overall game experience, and these NEED to be corrected, but I'm not willing to believe that the Devs get a by when reworking to the standards of today on a 'Frame that SHOULD still be relevant tomorrow.  Yes, that's a bit pointed, but that "all's well, now shaddup!" *UNPIN* crap set my teeth on edge.

EDIT:  I do use Fleeting Expertise too sometimes, but I hate the fact that we don't have a different option (a Nightmare mod perhaps) for Efficiency.  I would GLADLY use something else to push over 150% with Streamline, and I'm even wondering if Primed Streamline wouldn't be a good thing at this point.  Probably not, but what the hek right?

Edited September 18, 2016 by Cytobel

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

Page 23 of this thread was it's golden moment.

[Cytobel]

It's been that long since most of us had hope.  Now.....

Did anyone else catch how Carrier is losing Vacuum, but there's no real talk of learning from the mistake?  Instead we're getting 3 different pieces of the mod as mods for stuff and things...

Basically, someone gave up.  Rather than, say, not wasting mod space we get 3 new ways to not be intuitive and fluid in our gameplay.

The warning signs were all over Volt's rework, and now they're in the content we've begged to have changed for years.  It feels like someone is too burned out to even TRY anymore.  This is especially frustrating when we have bits of content pointing to people still fighting to accomplish the sort of excellent design we expected for years.

It's more than time for some folks at DE to take extended vacations and let a (by now) trained B team take over for a while. 

[----Dante----]

wish we could get a word from DE atlast if they plan to do some more QoL changes or leave volt as he is...

[Toramaru]

On 18/09/2016 at 7:24 PM, ----Dante---- said:

wish we could get a word from DE atlast if they plan to do some more QoL changes or leave volt as he is...

After all, it has been 64 pages of a majority of posts showing SEVERAL issues, and so little feedback...

[Cytobel]

That's my biggest problem anymore as well.

Seems they're too busy killing Carrier to comment.  Not that I totally disagree with that, just...

The rework caused problems that didn't exist before and it seems as though the Devs can't be bothered.  Frustrating.  It'd be a bit mollifying to hear SOMETHING about the last ~24 pages or so got through.  I'd be even happier if the main points we've repeatedly pointed out were at least acknowledged.  That's the least I'd expect, so the most I hope for.

[Cytobel]

Ya know what?

I'm more interested right this moment in DE finishing whatever else is in U19 BEFORE the end of the year.  This Volt stuff is needs to happen, but we're starting to see serious network issues I normally associate with really bored people trying a little "aggressive datamining".

Frankly, this is the most drawn-out over-thought silliness I've seen yet in Warframe.  Hopefully there's actually a new tileset in it, because that'd explain the time devoted to whatever it is.  Lore is something they should've resolved 6 months ago, new enemy types aren't too likely a cause for the slowdown, and it's not due to a flood of gear (unless we're REALLY lucky).

No matter, because we're still waiting for the Volt Feedback Thread to be properly acknowledged and certain issues to be addressed.  I hope this happens this year.

Edited September 24, 2016 by Cytobel

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

Just want to say to whomever thought they could restrict my ult to "ground cast only"...I don't have to live by your rules.

I succesfully aircasted discharge by double jumping/pushing random buttons while bullet jumping next to a wall....could not reliably do it when I wanted, and it might be something everyone else has already done, but I did it and now nothing and no one can stop me from enjoying volt the way I want to, except large open tile sets

.

 

Edited September 24, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Edit

[YagoXiten]

44 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Just want to say to whomever thought they could restrict my ult to "ground cast only"...I don't have to live by your rules.

I succesfully aircasted discharge by double jumping/pushing random buttons while bullet jumping next to a wall....could not reliably do it when I wanted, and it might be something everyone else has already done, but I did it and now nothing and no one can stop me from enjoying volt the way I want to, except large open tile sets

.

 

You can cast it whilst engaged in a Wall Latch. That's likely what happened.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

1 minute ago, YagoXiten said:

You can cast it whilst engaged in a Wall Latch. That's likely what happened.

Maybe, but I was mobile, and free, and moving through the air! 

That's all that matters at the end of the day.

[KaeseSchnitte]

I really like the new Volt, I play him way more often now than before (which wasn't hard, I never played him). The new Discharge gives him really good crowd control, combined with his shield and his speed he is a very well done support frame that still deals quite a lot of damage over time. The only ability that need tweaks is Shock, since Discharge does all what Shock does and more.

[voltocitygel]

8 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Maybe, but I was mobile, and free, and moving through the air! 

That's all that matters at the end of the day.

you can also cast while sliding, so you can cast whilst sliding off into the air.

I used to cast overload by bullet jumping, casting mid jump, so it unleashed when i landed inside the crowd. now i accomplish the same thing with sliding. that way, i can avoid exposing myself to enemy fire more than necessary.

[Ikusias]

Still after all these pages of feedback no response from DE staff (moderators don't count).

For all that I can see all changes were barely more than cosmetic or ill devised... discharge is half we wanted for overload and 75% of what we didn't want; shields capped to 6 and the unusable riot shield; electricity remaining the S#&$tiest element in the game; discharge CC that doesn't work reliably at all; shields still being worthless compared to armour in this game (I want shields like those in halo damnit, that was the right way to make them work, and coincidentally enemy shields work like that too!)

When all is said and done, considering the results, this was a rework they could and should have avoided period - nothing changed if not for worse, issues weren't solved and Qol wasn't improved - and unfortunately this can be said of most recent reworks... year of quality my ...s! Way to troll your customers DE!

As someone above said, it's apparent that DE staff is overworked and unmotivated, they deserve a vacation, a bit of sea, maibe as guests of Til regor on uranus?

[----Dante----]

well Volt only need some QoL changes right now:

 

speed should incrase holster speed

 

lower energy drain on movable shield to 3e/1s

remove speed debuff on movable shield

remove energy drain via meters moved on movable shield

remove timer when picking up shield

 

Discharge range should be based on duration 

Discharge stun should open enemies for melee finishers

remove Discharge dmg cap

and thats pretty much it.

 

Edited September 24, 2016 by ----Dante----

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

12 hours ago, voltocitygel said:

you can also cast while sliding, so you can cast whilst sliding off into the air.

I used to cast overload by bullet jumping, casting mid jump, so it unleashed when i landed inside the crowd. now i accomplish the same thing with sliding. that way, i can avoid exposing myself to enemy fire more than necessary.

It's still not what it used to be...I have kind of gotten the sliding down, still do it...

 

10 hours ago, Ikusias said:

Still after all these pages of feedback no response from DE staff (moderators don't count).

For all that I can see all changes were barely more than cosmetic or ill devised... discharge is half we wanted for overload and 75% of what we didn't want; shields capped to 6 and the unusable riot shield; electricity remaining the S#&$tiest element in the game; discharge CC that doesn't work reliably at all; shields still being worthless compared to armour in this game (I want shields like those in halo damnit, that was the right way to make them work, and coincidentally enemy shields work like that too!)

When all is said and done, considering the results, this was a rework they could and should have avoided period - nothing changed if not for worse, issues weren't solved and Qol wasn't improved - and unfortunately this can be said of most recent reworks... year of quality my ...s! Way to troll your customers DE!

As someone above said, it's apparent that DE staff is overworked and unmotivated, they deserve a vacation, a bit of sea, maibe as guests of Til regor on uranus?

Can we talk about this part specifically? The bolded part. I agree, but because I think enemies that do nothing but stand still have no purpose or reason to even be on the map.

[kristophy]

On 5/27/2016 at 2:45 PM, Satinpuppies said:

I used to be able to take volt into corpus sorties and keep up damage wise with the old mag. Now I can't even clear a room in a t2-t3 tower with his ult ;/

Please tell me i'm not the only one.

=======

 

my volt can kill every thing! has ridicules range and makes valkur look bad. use stretch, cunning drift, blind rage your golden?

Edited September 25, 2016 by kristophy

[Cryone]

Think that DEs are too much occupied with TWW update, so destiny of Volt for now is kinda mysterious. Probably they leave it as it is.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Cryone

[Toramaru]

1 hour ago, Cryone said:

Think that DEs are too much occupied with TWW update, so destiny of Volt for now is kinda mysterious. Probably they leave it as it is.

And that is precisely our fear and reason for 64 pages of constant suggestions and feedbacks.

I don't like Volt now. I played him mostly with Speed and because I saw a lot of potential on our potent alternative to gunplay. It was wonky then and is unbearable now.

Since the rework testing I've played Volt zero times, and it became blatlanty obvious other Frames do EVERYTHING else much better. The only worse than Volt is Hydroid.

Their kit fit, and you can use ALL skills on every run. Have you ever seen Volt being built to use all skills? I certainly haven't.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Toramaru

[Cryone]

5 hours ago, Toramaru said:

And that is precisely our fear and reason for 64 pages of constant suggestions and feedbacks.

I don't like Volt now. I played him mostly with Speed and because I saw a lot of potential on our potent alternative to gunplay. It was wonky then and is unbearable now.

Since the rework testing I've played Volt zero times, and it became blatlanty obvious other Frames do EVERYTHING else much better. The only worse than Volt is Hydroid.

Their kit fit, and you can use ALL skills on every run. Have you ever seen Volt being built to use all skills? I certainly haven't.

I'm quite disagree with some of your points of view. As Volt's my main (Lazy MR18, with ~56% Normal Volt play (until release of Prime version), I can definitely say that Volt can do much more than using non-stop speed. I will try to prove it analyzing some strong and weak sides of the frame. As we know and all the time use the expression alternative to gunplay, for sure I can underline Electric Shield ability that gives additional multiplier to crit. damage, so with some right weapon can deal a massive amount of damage (ex. shield + lanka red. crit headshot 120 lvl. Heavy Gunner), after the rework protects you from blast effect, so we can consider that it is the strongest side of Volt's abilities, the weak side of this ability for sure second effect, Riot Shield, that has some restrictions of movement speed reduction and Energy drain per distance traveled. 
Another side of Volt's rework is the ability Discharge (Overload in past), for now a strong CC with noLOS (Line of Sight) mechanic, that grants you to stun-lock entire map, also augmented with Capacitance mod gives an overshield effect to all allies on map, buffing your survivability, as weak point for sure Health cap on Discharge. Speed received a needed recast mechanic, and overall this ability is usable in every playstyle, same thing is Shock pretty nice spam ability to some crowd control. As for me, I playing Volt using all abilities, with hybrid build (below), that overall fits my playstyle. Yes, after all there are frames that doing things better than does Volt, but even this way, they are already have their strong and weak points. For my oppinion Volt for solo/party gameplay can be impactful enough.  
Yeah, forgot: BUFF PARKOUR SPEED from ability, instead giving additional 0-1000 dmg. from passive.

Spoiler

 

 

Edited September 25, 2016 by Cryone

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

34 minutes ago, Cryone said:

Another side of Volt's rework is the ability Discharge (Overload in past), for now a strong CC with noLOS (Line of Sight) mechanic, that grants you to stun-lock entire map,

Am I wrong for wanting to thrown my controller through the screen from sheer frustration at this point?

At this point, I feel I am paying out of pocket the ability to do all damage instantly, spread effortlessly through a tile without needing to be in the center of a large group of enemies and aircast of the ability for just a stun. Its just a stun, it doesn't do anything else. The ability is great with capacitance, but without the augment mod, it doesn't t do anything. 

Saryn: saryns ult was changed to do dot, and has light cc. There is not damage cap, and The casting animation is much shorter. She can also cast miasma in the air, which helps greatly to add to her survivability after the cut to her health she took.

Volt: is supposed to rely on sheilds and/ or gimped mobility to use an ult that has a longer cast animation than Saryns, but does less damage.

Also, am I the only one that has fun in a mission, up to the point a nova starts using molecular prime, which to me makes everything super boring? 

 

 

[Cryone]

27 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Am I wrong for wanting to thrown my controller through the screen from sheer frustration at this point?

At this point, I feel I am paying out of pocket the ability to do all damage instantly, spread effortlessly through a tile without needing to be in the center of a large group of enemies and aircast of the ability for just a stun. Its just a stun, it doesn't do anything else. The ability is great with capacitance, but without the augment mod, it doesn't t do anything. 

Saryn: saryns ult was changed to do dot, and has light cc. There is not damage cap, and The casting animation is much shorter. She can also cast miasma in the air, which helps greatly to add to her survivability after the cut to her health she took.

Volt: is supposed to rely on sheilds and/ or gimped mobility to use an ult that has a longer cast animation than Saryns, but does less damage.

Also, am I the only one that has fun in a mission, up to the point a nova starts using molecular prime, which to me makes everything super boring? 

 

 

The thing is that simple stun gives you a possibility to make strategy moves during the mission even in tough situation (ex. high lvl excavation, sorties, high time survivals). With or w/o Capacitance, this is a pretty good CC ability (and strong in non-damage sense) , even with the Jesus stance animation. I also indicated the weak point that is HEALTH CAP DMG, that hope one day will be removed, that add some more possibilities to experiment more build stuff.
And what about Nova: if you want some fun Nova play, you should try an old good speed build on, so everything will be much bright and colourful. 

Edited September 25, 2016 by Cryone

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

2 hours ago, Cryone said:

The thing is that simple stun gives you a possibility to make strategy moves during the mission even in tough situation (ex. high lvl excavation, sorties, high time survivals). With or w/o Capacitance, this is a pretty good CC ability (and strong in non-damage sense) , even with the Jesus stance animation. I also indicated the weak point that is HEALTH CAP DMG, that hope one day will be removed, that add some more possibilities to experiment more build stuff.
And what about Nova: if you want some fun Nova play, you should try an old good speed build on, so everything will be much bright and colourful. 

These are bonuses and drawbacks DE thought would be necessary, but I never wanted hard cc or a damage cap and was never given a choice in the matter, so it's a total loss as an ability in my eyes.

Cheese. Strategy.

I don't see any difference between discharge, radial blind, and pre nerf prism. Enemies all stand still. With bastille they float. It's all useless when in the same breath, your trying to increase difficulty by completely taking away warframe powers every chance you get (DE). 

Locking down maps is wrong. What's the point of the game If what you are playing against is removed? How about instead of letting us shut stuff down (when we are allowed to amongst all the power denial), they fix enemy scaling so it isn't required, and then make hard cc something you have to work for.

I hate the word "balance", but vauban with his buggy bastille is actually light cc, because it doesn't stop everything from moving or fighting back (shooting while held up, running straight through), and if they would compesate by allowing you to have more effective control the more work you put into it (the infamous "work" word), itd be great.

Example: discharge will tesla coil enemies and have the stun time of normal electricity, like it used to. Using shock on a coiled target at anytime will then cause them to be stunned in place...

Or something.

Not press 4 to stun everything and look at YouTube...(oh wait, that was pre nerf mirage prism).

But I'm not even upset with the cheese itself, I'm upset with the limits. Let me aircast discharge and I'll be a happy volt. Let it chain through the environment again, and id be ecstatic. Forget the stun time, or how long it lasts, could care less, I don't think mine lasts any longer than 10 seconds, I don't watch, they die from other stuff (mainly weapons) anyways.

What's the point of an enemy being on the map if it doesn't do anything?

Edited September 25, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Edited

[Cryone]

10 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

These are bonuses and drawbacks DE thought would be necessary, but I never wanted hard cc or a damage cap and was never given a choice in the matter, so it's a total loss as an ability in my eyes.

Cheese. Strategy.

I don't see any difference between discharge, radial blind, and pre nerf prism. Enemies all stand still. With bastille they float. It's all useless when in the same breath, your trying to increase difficulty by completely taking away warframe powers every chance you get (DE). 

Locking down maps is wrong. What's the point of the game If what you are playing against is removed? How about instead of letting us shut stuff down (when we are allowed to amongst all the power denial), they fix enemy scaling so it isn't required, and then make hard cc something you have to work for.

I hate the word "balance", but vauban with his buggy bastille is actually light cc, because it doesn't stop everything from moving or fighting back (shooting while held up, running straight through), and if they would compesate by allowing you to have more effective control the more work you put into it (the infamous "work" word), itd be great.

Example: discharge will tesla coil enemies and have the stun time of normal electricity, like it used to. Using shock on a coiled target at anytime will then cause them to be stunned in place...

Or something.

Not press 4 to stun everything and look at YouTube...(oh wait, that was pre nerf mirage prism).

But I'm not even upset with the cheese itself, I'm upset with the limits. Let me aircast discharge and I'll be a happy volt. Let it chain through the environment again, and id be ecstatic. Forget the stun time, or how long it lasts, could care less, I don't think mine lasts any longer than 10 seconds, I don't watch, they die from other stuff (mainly weapons) anyways.

What's the point of an enemy being on the map if it doesn't do anything?

The effect of those abilities is similar enough in terms of function, the difference is that Prism and RB working only in Line of sight, which I hope don't be applied to Discharge, in other way Volt's 4 will be lost forever. For sure locking entire map and after that shoot immobile things is not that really fun at all, it's effective, but not fun. That's why they changed (nerfed) some hard cc abilities with LOS mechanic. But still they trying to adding interactivity through augmentation mods. For example you can always add augment for the Vauban's bastille (Repelling Bastille), that gives a 100% chance to push enemies back when it's full, blocking them from moving through and forcing to look for other way to reach you. Vauban is a kinda squishy frame (not like paper Banshee but still) with a good passive (better then that has Volt) only thing it works only in party, so this is for my oppinion makes him less effective in soloplaying, other stuff you can simply fix with Vauban's augments (that are pretty strong enough).
For sure a huge nerf for me was (repeat constantly) GROUNDING Volt through passive (that not as really useful at all, maybe for destroying caches with more damage only), and especially nerfing a mid-air cast to newely added Discharge, instead giving a bit more mobility to parkour. Yeah, in other way it's kinda right choice, because his abilities (almost all of them) are usable mainly on the ground (shield, speed, shock (that can be reflected from walls, ground ecc.), but nerfing mid-air cast makes Volt highly vulnerable at all. 

I hope that this is not the end... 

Edited September 26, 2016 by Cryone