Volt Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

On 7/19/2016 at 2:05 PM, Duduminador said:

Disrcharge feels like another frame's ability forced into Volt's kit ...

Is it useful? Hell, yeah. Is it powerfull? To an extent, definitly. Is it worth dedicating a build to it? A relutanct yes.

But so would be if Volt had Prism instead of Discharge, Rhino's Stomp or whatever area cc ability the game already has.

Not saying that Volt should have another weapon or melee 4th ability (like in everybody's wet dream), but if the reason to not give other frames weapon-ults is so that it doesn't turn into a copy paste without variety... then how is giving Volt another massive cc ability any different? I agree that the stun range of Mirage Prism was overpowered, but it feels like the main reason to do it, was so you could give someone elase (Volt) another area cc focused ability.

Not meant to be taken seriously but if by any chance... My own fandom born 4th ability for Volt would be an epic lightning spear, that wouldn't realy be a melee, but a sort of unic 1 shot weapon. Maybe it could split on hit, or cause a mid range shock, or maybe fire through everything in line of sight, guaranteed lightning proc and open mobs to finishers and it could be modded as either a str ability like a Glass cannon to fire through shields, or instead a low str to build to take advantage of the stagger from "open to finishers".
Press 4 to form weapon, left mouse click to fire, right mouse to zoom... Could have a charge firing time. Could synergise with electric shields on damage and speed on fire time? An Augment to instead of gain damage from Shields, bounce off on them. A synergy with shock to ragdoll staggered enemies (in case you realise you won't reach them in time for finishers). And it could benefit from the passive, but for god's sake, apply the damage to all hits, not just the first one.
And the most important side of it: the animation, hand up to the skies to form weapon, down on side while holding it, ONLY enter throw stance on charging or zooming.

I just wanted the 4th ability to be anything besides a buffed overload.

This guy

Yes iv been reading through the thread. Sue me.

[LunarEdge7]

1 hour ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

My own fandom born 4th ability for Volt would be an epic lightning spear, that wouldn't realy be a melee, but a sort of unic 1 shot weapon. Maybe it could split on hit, or cause a mid range shock, or maybe fire through everything in line of sight, guaranteed lightning proc and open mobs to finishers and it could be modded as either a str ability like a Glass cannon to fire through shields, or instead a low str to build to take advantage of the stagger from "open to finishers".

Basically, you both like the idea of an electric Spartan fighter? I'm in.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

5 minutes ago, LunarEdge7 said:

Basically, you both like the idea of an electric Spartan fighter? I'm in.

Well, why not with the riot sheild right?

And then you could have a phalanx of volts, do an lor, and take 8 volts, and sit underneath your sheilds with your spears laughing at the the grineer army and their puny missiles

[LunarEdge7]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Well, why not with the riot sheild right?

And then you could have a phalanx of volts, do an lor, and take 8 volts, and sit underneath your sheilds with your spears laughing at the the grineer army and their puny missiles

I think I came.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

2 hours ago, LunarEdge7 said:

I think I came.

What would you do with the ability if it couldnt be a melee ult (as per op)?

[LunarEdge7]

1 hour ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

What would you do with the ability if it couldnt be a melee ult (as per op)?

I have no ideas yet, tbh.

I've more ideas for Ash than Volt, and that's a bad thing coming from a Volt lover.

[Cytobel]

I'm gonna go pick up Infamous. 

I'm kinda done with this Volt thing.  Shock does too little for the micro-cooldown it seems to posess, and I keep wishing it had a hold-1 function (ball lightning, with all the knockback and explosive vaporization potential* that suggests).  Speed just...  isn't what I need.  Basically ever.  If I've got Shocking Speed I have a 2nd ability worth my time, but else if...  Electric Shield is one of those things I keep thinking about, and thinking less of.  I want to like Discharge, but it's not working well for me either.  I'm not even going to start in on Riot Shield.

I guess I'm just done with Volt's current design philosophy.  He's like a primer on how to make lightning kinda ineffective and boring as quickly as possible.  I think there's been a fair amount of good thought spent on making decent choices that painted him into this corner, and that's somewhat tragic.

I've burned out on this, I'm sure.  Time to go do something that's fun, and DOESN'T make lightning about as interesting as balancing a checkbook.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

3 hours ago, Cytobel said:

I'm gonna go pick up Infamous. 

I'm kinda done with this Volt thing.  Shock does too little for the micro-cooldown it seems to posess, and I keep wishing it had a hold-1 function (ball lightning, with all the knockback and explosive vaporization potential* that suggests).  Speed just...  isn't what I need.  Basically ever.  If I've got Shocking Speed I have a 2nd ability worth my time, but else if...  Electric Shield is one of those things I keep thinking about, and thinking less of.  I want to like Discharge, but it's not working well for me either.  I'm not even going to start in on Riot Shield.

I guess I'm just done with Volt's current design philosophy.  He's like a primer on how to make lightning kinda ineffective and boring as quickly as possible.  I think there's been a fair amount of good thought spent on making decent choices that painted him into this corner, and that's somewhat tragic.

I've burned out on this, I'm sure.  Time to go do something that's fun, and DOESN'T make lightning about as interesting as balancing a checkbook.

Right? 

I tried to explain it in my post, but tjat got dismissed and scattered through the last 3 pages of this post. I made the exact same post in fan concepts.

The thing with infamous is that they havnt figired out how to make a sand box mode yet, so once you finsh the story, theres nothing really else to do..plus they made cole the god of lightning which was awesome, then the god of all weather which was pretty sweet...then killed him off...

.....so thays why iv been on this quest to find a suitable replacement which volt was supposed to be, but since warframe powers in general are always underwhelming, and volts shock is apparently the greatest ability in the world, "eternal love of (bug) zapping", nothings changing, and people champion the limits and lameness....its seeming to be the time to move on.

[SylvenStar]

I've already explored a huge handful of ideas for Volt, incorporating things from other people. I left for over a month, come back, and find that this thread is STILL active and ongoing. I'm happy that so many other people have this love and hope for volt, but dammit DE just isn't giving us any love.

 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

On 10/11/2016 at 6:40 PM, SortaRandom said:

Of course data never lies, but that doesn't mean that data can't be misleading.
Bluephoenix13 is right; happy players are less likely to post in feedback threads, and this is absolutely worth noting.

 

Even if we go ahead and assume that the forum-browsing portion of a video game community is representative of the game's community as a whole (read: It isn't), remember that video game feedback is very fundamentally different from eBay feedback and hotel reviews and such. This is both due to the demographic of people who use the product (the community of space ninjas-- while vast and diverse-- is far, far more "niche" than the group of people who have been to a hotel at least once in their life), and due to the fact that there is no social obligation to post feedback in video games.

The end result is that the people who want to see substantial improvements to the game, or those who are bitterly disappointed with the game and want to vent, are more likely to post in a feedback thread. The ones who are satisfied with their product are far more likely to simply play the game.

 

EDIT:
That all being said, though, I totally agree with EnderDDT that Volt's rework needs substantial improvements. Small wall of text incoming.

  Hide contents

1. Shock...
is as unreliable as it was before the update. If the enemy is doing any sort of remotely "special" animation, then the stun will have no effect. It won't stun enemies cowering behind cover, it won't stun enemies using Ramparts-- hell, it won't even prevent enemies from setting off alarms or stealing Interception towers.
I vaguely remember when Rebecca first showcased Volt's rework on the devstream. The first attack against an enemy in the mission was a Shock to a Bombard's back... and rather than being stunned, it basically just spun around and promptly shoved a rocket up her nose. None of the devs seemed to have any sort of reaction to this; it was basically just "welp, just bombards being bombards i guess" and nothing more.
How this was not addressed, I've got no bloody clue.
 

2. Speed
is great and I love it.
 

3. Electric shield...
is much better than pre-rework (even with the cap on active shields), but... the Riot Shield mode simply has far, far too many downsides. This is my biggest gripe for the entire update.

- restricts to pistol (makes sense)
- shrinks size (makes sense)
- slows you down (kinda conflicts with Volt's theme, but okay, we'll see where it goes)
- has drain per second (okay, I can live with that)
- has drain per distance (wait, what)
- does not pause the shield's timer (oh god please stop)
- does not switch back to previously-used weapon after deactivation (OH GOD MAKE IT END)

Granted, that last one's an oversight-- but seriously? Slowdown (despite his theme), two different kinds of energy drain (despite the initial 50 energy cost), and still operates on a timer (despite the two different kinds of energy drain)?
It's as if a "possible downsides" list were created, and the people in charge of coding misinterpreted it and accidentally implemented all of them. Just give it one or two of those downsides. It does not need all of them.


4. Overload...
also suffers from the whole "too many downsides" thing, to a lesser (yet somehow more noticeable) extent. I get the ground-casting bit due to technical limitations, but the damage cap is completely unnecessary when the stun already runs on a Duration.
On Grineer, Overload is fantastic since the "damage cap" pretty much doesn't exist. But on Corpus (who Volt is thematically supposed to be strong against), Overload ends up having little to no CC value because unarmored enemies shake off the stun almost immediately.
The ability would be nearly perfect if the damage cap were simply removed. No other CC ability has such a cap, so why should Overload?

This, but a 15 second duration on speed and i agree.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

51 minutes ago, SylvenStar said:

I've already explored a huge handful of ideas for Volt, incorporating things from other people. I left for over a month, come back, and find that this thread is STILL active and ongoing. I'm happy that so many other people have this love and hope for volt, but dammit DE just isn't giving us any love.

 

I think they know that we are unhappy, but dont believe "we" are enough people to make any change to the vision they seem to have for volt.

[SylvenStar]

7 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

I think they know that we are unhappy, but dont believe "we" are enough people to make any change to the vision they seem to have for volt.

What IS their vision for him though? People have experimented with so many things and nothing just straight up works well. The only impression we all seem to be getting is that Volt is supposed to be a jack-of-all-trades or some kind of utlity belt, neither of which he does well. Discharge still sucks vs Corpus and does minimal damage to other factions. Electric shield is okay, but encourages an immobile style, whereas both Volt's passive (which is useless) and his second ability, Speed, encourage the exact opposite. Riot shield is little more than a really cool, REALLY expensive gimmick if you want it for anything other than moving shields without recasting, though it's still costly and cumbersome to do. Shock is nothing more than a short interrupt. It does neither substantial damage past low levels nor does it stun nearly enough enemies for nearly enough time to be handy. Speed is the only ability in a really good spot, except for the fact that the build for it requires that you abandon Discharge altogether, and the fact that there is a BIG cast delay for no reason. If they don't want to change him for any visions we have for Volt, that's perfectly fine! Let them take him where they want! The problem is, they aren't doing anything substantial for him. He isn't unique, he isn't the jack-of-all-trades that people claim he is, and he is outperformed by every other frame in EVERY category thanks to parkour 2.0. I don't care where he goes, even if it means turning him into a pure speed-centric frame. Just take him somewhere.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

1 hour ago, SylvenStar said:

What IS their vision for him though? People have experimented with so many things and nothing just straight up works well. The only impression we all seem to be getting is that Volt is supposed to be a jack-of-all-trades or some kind of utlity belt, neither of which he does well. Discharge still sucks vs Corpus and does minimal damage to other factions. Electric shield is okay, but encourages an immobile style, whereas both Volt's passive (which is useless) and his second ability, Speed, encourage the exact opposite. Riot shield is little more than a really cool, REALLY expensive gimmick if you want it for anything other than moving shields without recasting, though it's still costly and cumbersome to do. Shock is nothing more than a short interrupt. It does neither substantial damage past low levels nor does it stun nearly enough enemies for nearly enough time to be handy. Speed is the only ability in a really good spot, except for the fact that the build for it requires that you abandon Discharge altogether, and the fact that there is a BIG cast delay for no reason. If they don't want to change him for any visions we have for Volt, that's perfectly fine! Let them take him where they want! The problem is, they aren't doing anything substantial for him. He isn't unique, he isn't the jack-of-all-trades that people claim he is, and he is outperformed by every other frame in EVERY category thanks to parkour 2.0. I don't care where he goes, even if it means turning him into a pure speed-centric frame. Just take him somewhere.

Oh, i agree 110%, but from how things have been going, i think they think volt is perfect or something. I made a post in the concept section, was trying to get people to check it out here but...

[Cytobel]

Oh god, did we hit on it?  Is the problem as simple as "we don't know what we want to do with Volt"?

Makes sense.  The abandonment of damage as a central theme really only works if Volt is refocused towards SOMETHING else.  Volt doesn't do damage, so...  what does he do then?

Okay, lets look at options.

-CC:  While Volt has a TOUCH of CC from electric procs, he really has to put all his eggs in the Discharge basket.  It's AoE, it locks things down for it's rather long duration (but for the dastardly damage cap killing it, and you, early), it has solid range that scales well, it... uh... umm.....   ...AoE...?

Honestly, too much is going on here for me to feel like this is good CC.  The lockdown element is horribly cheesy, inconsistent, and tied to a damage element that directly opposes it.  I think Discharge is the thing best done in the rework because DE actually took a few risks and made something here.  I'm not happy with the result, but I'm happy with the creativity.  As either damage or CC this ability fails, but I like the attempt.

-Tactical Play:  I define tactical play as altering the basic rules of the situation you are in.  Loki's Decoy, Equinox's Pacify/Provoke, Ivara's Prowl, Limbo's... everything...  there are 'Frames that set a strong standard for tactical play already.  Hell, I look at Frost as being a superb tactical choice, not just for the bubble but also for the slowing effect of cold procs.

Volt brings a stationary shield that promotes sniping, a speed buff to enable melee superiority strategy, and can pick up the shield to ruin both (while hemorrhaging energy). These 2 concepts do not agree, and the Riot Shield underlines the disparity rather than rectifying it.  Electric Shield feels out of place due to the emphasis placed on mobility.

A Warframe that cannot decide to move or stand still isn't being tactical, it's being ADHD.

________________________________________________

A big hole in Volts kit is a lack of something that can group foes together.  That would make his damage and tactical aspects more viable, plus you could use it to round up enemies not caught in the initial pulse from Discharge.  Perhaps enemies could be electrostatically attracted to each other by Shock?  It's doing bloody little as a "keystone".

That, a reduction to costs associated with Riot Shield, and air-cast on Discharge (which STILL forces us to carefully ensure we're on the ground before we hop up and cast it in the air anyway) could help quite a bit.

I really just wish someone would decide what Volt should DO.  He kind of DOESN'T, and that's not "engaging gameplay".

Edited October 19, 2016 by Cytobel

[AcesZeph]

Lots of great ideas here. I hope some of them somehow gets implemented(like the spear thing). I honestly wish they'd ditch the radial AoE thing about his 4th, and rename it(Discharge is a bad name, IMO). To be completely honest, I think most people play volt for his speed... If they buff that and made it his ultimate(still spammable, hopefully), and move that clunky discharge to 2 or 3, then he can be the speed centric frame he really should be. And swap sprint speed with Loki. Loki can use a nerf. Lol.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

On 10/19/2016 at 6:53 AM, Cytobel said:

Oh god, did we hit on it?  Is the problem as simple as "we don't know what we want to do with Volt"?

Makes sense.  The abandonment of damage as a central theme really only works if Volt is refocused towards SOMETHING else.  Volt doesn't do damage, so...  what does he do then?

Okay, lets look at options.

-CC:  While Volt has a TOUCH of CC from electric procs, he really has to put all his eggs in the Discharge basket.  It's AoE, it locks things down for it's rather long duration (but for the dastardly damage cap killing it, and you, early), it has solid range that scales well, it... uh... umm.....   ...AoE...?

Honestly, too much is going on here for me to feel like this is good CC.  The lockdown element is horribly cheesy, inconsistent, and tied to a damage element that directly opposes it.  I think Discharge is the thing best done in the rework because DE actually took a few risks and made something here.  I'm not happy with the result, but I'm happy with the creativity.  As either damage or CC this ability fails, but I like the attempt.

-Tactical Play:  I define tactical play as altering the basic rules of the situation you are in.  Loki's Decoy, Equinox's Pacify/Provoke, Ivara's Prowl, Limbo's... everything...  there are 'Frames that set a strong standard for tactical play already.  Hell, I look at Frost as being a superb tactical choice, not just for the bubble but also for the slowing effect of cold procs.

Volt brings a stationary shield that promotes sniping, a speed buff to enable melee superiority strategy, and can pick up the shield to ruin both (while hemorrhaging energy). These 2 concepts do not agree, and the Riot Shield underlines the disparity rather than rectifying it.  Electric Shield feels out of place due to the emphasis placed on mobility.

A Warframe that cannot decide to move or stand still isn't being tactical, it's being ADHD.

________________________________________________

A big hole in Volts kit is a lack of something that can group foes together.  That would make his damage and tactical aspects more viable, plus you could use it to round up enemies not caught in the initial pulse from Discharge.  Perhaps enemies could be electrostatically attracted to each other by Shock?  It's doing bloody little as a "keystone".

That, a reduction to costs associated with Riot Shield, and air-cast on Discharge (which STILL forces us to carefully ensure we're on the ground before we hop up and cast it in the air anyway) could help quite a bit.

I really just wish someone would decide what Volt should DO.  He kind of DOESN'T, and that's not "engaging gameplay".

We were all supposed to form a secret brain dump of ideas a while ago or something....

Not sire if that did happen, and i wasnt there, or if it never materialized, but i think a collective effort would get alot more attention from the devs

[SylvenStar]

On 10/22/2016 at 11:10 PM, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

We were all supposed to form a secret brain dump of ideas a while ago or something....

Not sire if that did happen, and i wasnt there, or if it never materialized, but i think a collective effort would get alot more attention from the devs

Oh man, has there been a brain dump of ideas. I alone came up with 2 different complete reworks and a few other smaller gameplay updates. Several other people have contributed even more ideas, some of which were far superior to mine. They were lost among the arguments with the few people raging and yelling at us for trying to bring Volt up to par.

[----Dante----]

come on DE volt still need some work

Buff hes base sprint speed to 1.15 or 1.20

Stationary ES could store 5% of dmg that goes through it and when using shock on ES it would explode dealing the dmg it stored

Movable Shield energy drain should be reduced to 3e/1s

Remove movement penalty and energy per meters moved from MES

 

Allow Volt to use discharge in the air

Remove Discharge dmg cap and lower stun duration a little

Discharge range should be based on duration

another idea is to give Volt 2step ultimate like inaros has

holding 4 would give volt dmg buff + he would store like 5-10% of recived dmg to use it on 2nd press of 4 where he would do Discharge

[Cytobel]

Volt has basically been abandoned in favor of ANYTHING ELSE.

Don't bother.

[----Dante----]

5 hours ago, Cytobel said:

Volt has basically been abandoned in favor of ANYTHING ELSE.

Don't bother.

there is still hope he may get second look after TWW

hes rework made him bigger mess and did not adress single of hes issues they just cant leave him like that .-.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

3 hours ago, Cytobel said:

Volt has basically been abandoned in favor of ANYTHING ELSE.

Don't bother.

I dreamed yesterday that he had a new idle animation, and it was ball lightning....or looked more like the stream between the two staticor parts.......thought up some new ideas too

 

[Vafthrudnir]

To be honest his abilities are too simple, not unique and likely to get surpassed in time compared to new stuff.

Edited November 9, 2016 by giovanniluca
better syntax

[(PSN)Silverback73]

I've gone a bit philosophical and am pushing his utility and trying  different builds before delving further into the repeated (and mostly valid) criticisms ad nauseum.  

For TWW I'm going with this Volt Prime Grineer-killer build.

Power Strength:     80

Power Duration:   173

Power Range:      250

Does it seem counterintuitive?

I'd suggest you try different builds and report back pleasant "outside the box" surprises along with feedback.

Here's what I've found with this build:

Discharge:

Discharge range maximizes the "armor mitigation stun" effect on high armor/boss targets...a happy accident power not unlike reverse Slowva.  The nearly map-wide stun synergizes wonderfully with other CC frames and gives squadmates the ability to go both melee-centric or ranged.

Damage ticks act like an animal instinct mod and lead you right to stunned targets.

Shields:

As with most non-efficiency builds, Riot shield is useless.

However, in concert with discharge on more open maps, you can bring truly lethal, ranged "Turret Frame" carnage from a protected position with enhanced duration.  High-damage, High RoF weapons with electricity and Crit bonus can be a difference maker.

Speed:

Speed only grants a slight boost to movement and melee, but the unforeseen positive here is that it gives a small bonus without negatively impacting your teammates.

Shock:

Can be fired through shields for a bit of synergy and stun clusters of enemies at reduced cost, but I largely use it to halt enemy progress and stealth reload (one-handed action).

Fin

 

[Cytobel]

Hey look!  I found the best way to turn out tons of damage with Volt!

...sort of:  

[The hidden mod is Sinister Reach, BTW]

On a more serious note, this situation is just sad.  Volt is the only elemental 'Frame that seems to be unable to do much of anything.  Even his Discharge (like it or hate it) gets nothing but nerfs.  Most recently Discharge stopped freezing the Kuva guardians, making it officially useless to try using Volt in Kuva missions.  Higher armor Frost steals the show with effects that slow the enemies, stall damage, and lock down foes in the way Volt SORT OF could, only more effectively.

There is no point to this rework, no theme.  Volt does nothing worth mentioning for a team that could just as well do without him.  Why Volt when you can just use Valkyr?

Months on and Volt is worse off than he was before.

[Ikusias]

Volt rework is confirmed as utterly pointless, the only useful change was a possibility to opt out from speed... should have removed its team effect directly