Poll: Do you agree with the nerfs? 1000 votes in

[AcceI]

I agree for all the wrong reasons.

[Lhudge]

I only disagree with trinity nerf. The rest is ok (a thought about mirage though)

[PoisonHD]

I sort of want to skew the poll toward the  "Yes" side, by sharing it with all my friends and telling them to vote yes xD

DW, I won't do it though. Just thought it would be funny.

[Tuxie]

No, I do not agree with Vivergate 2.0

[Fionntan]

1 minute ago, LilithLovett said:

No, I do not agree with Vivergate 2.0

This update holds no water compared to Vivergate.

 

As for question in thread, I agree with most changes minus few kinks:

• Why change polarized to % to raw numbers on Mag? Also is Magnetize friendly damage a thing?
• Trin DR formula change was fine but cap 50m is a bit over the top
• Excal slide cost energy for mediocre blind? I might as well use 2 for better range and duration.

That is all.

[(XBOX)Iris1268]

2 hours ago, Stratego89 said:

From experience I can tell you everything you just said there- AGAIN- is wrong. 

And yes- overload has a duration, but unless you're going with a very... unique build... that damage cap is more likely than not always going to be hit first.

Again... shock doesn't have a range. It does and it doesn't. The CAST RANGE is infinite. No matter how far away you're looking- it will hit. Even with maximum negative range. It doesn't matter. The ONLY thing range affects is the CHAIN LINK range- and that's defaulted at 15m. That's a LONG distance. After that point more range is effectively pointless in the situations it's best in- shutting down a small group of enemies in close range that are gonna stomp you while reloading or something.

Please stop typing in caps, it makes your posts very hard to read.

 

As for my opinion, I support all but the Volt damage cap, and Mag's fixed damage.

[TheBrsrkr]

Nothing of value was lost. 

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

i am flabbergasted at how so many ppl can vote with a straight "no" to los on prism and perma-godmode-hysteria / turret-exhalted-blade nerfs? like srsy? funny thing is i tried the latter two and they feel pretty much as lame as ever still. so what's with the insane whine levels? people, get ahold of yourself, the forums are cringeworthy to even browse thread titles atm. jesus. i did nightmare raids and sorties since 18.13 and the game is still a freaking joke in terms of difficulty, noone really missed 99% damage reduction all of the time at all. i understand and agree the reciprocal one-shotting in endgame has to stop but claiming the enemies needed nerfs first is just ridiculous and nothing but rhetoric to gild butthurtness over toys allegedly being taken away. this is no sense of justice being violated here, it's laziness, "spoiledness" and and a false sense of entitlement, plain and simple.

this update, while surely not perfect, is the most important in quite a while imho and hopefully an omen for engaging gameplay to come.

[-Kryptyk-]

so someone said mag was nerfed.... hi

Spoiler

From the proxy event - mag literally wipes out entire maps, destroys the hyenas and any other high-powered target, and is now WAY more OP than she used to be.  That and she scales really well.  Other three players were a frost, nova, and trinity.

 

[izzatuw]

4 hours ago, PoisonHD said:

I sort of want to skew the poll toward the  "Yes" side, by sharing it with all my friends and telling them to vote yes xD

DW, I won't do it though. Just thought it would be funny.

I mean if they think so I don't mind.

[Kaiser_Suoh]

4 hours ago, LilithLovett said:

No, I do not agree with Vivergate 2.0

You remember that? :´) im not alone.

4 hours ago, Fionntan said:

This update holds no water compared to Vivergate.

 

As for question in thread, I agree with most changes minus few kinks:

• Why change polarized to % to raw numbers on Mag? Also is Magnetize friendly damage a thing?
• Trin DR formula change was fine but cap 50m is a bit over the top
• Excal slide cost energy for mediocre blind? I might as well use 2 for better range and duration.

That is all.

So, do you agree with nerfs? yes or not?

[Xianos_Chaos]

1 hour ago, Firefly0037 said:

so someone said mag was nerfed.... hi

  Hide contents

From the proxy event - mag literally wipes out entire maps, destroys the hyenas and any other high-powered target, and is now WAY more OP than she used to be.  That and she scales really well.  Other three players were a frost, nova, and trinity.

 

So the logic here is Mag is good as long as she has three supporters to let her do most of the killing? I'm assuming the nova is a slova and Frost was making sure the core was safe and not using his ultimate for high crowd control. Yeah, then this make sense she got the kills.

[Kaiser_Suoh]

12 hours ago, izzatuw said:

500 votes are in and the current results

Oooohh this generation makes me laugh.

*Crying in nerf*

[Xianos_Chaos]

3 minutes ago, Kaiser_Suoh said:

Oooohh this generation makes me laugh.

*Crying in nerf*

You should look at the results now, the No's and Some of them are out beating the Yes.

[izzatuw]

5 minutes ago, Kaiser_Suoh said:

Oooohh this generation makes me laugh.

*Crying in nerf*

Eh 

[Kaiser_Suoh]

Just now, Xianos_Chaos said:

You should look at the results now, the No's and Some of them are out beating the Yes.

Mmm i see that many people are happy with nerfs (25%). And people who hate the nerf is (29%)

That it is a defeat for me.

[Uzpian]

I'm still enjoying the game so I think it's a yes for me.

I didn't voted in the strawpoll though.

[-Kryptyk-]

25 minutes ago, Xianos_Chaos said:

So the logic here is Mag is good as long as she has three supporters to let her do most of the killing? I'm assuming the nova is a slova and Frost was making sure the core was safe and not using his ultimate for high crowd control. Yeah, then this make sense she got the kills.

nah, the only complaint that I'd have is that she uses a lot of energy, just like saryn, and the amount of energy mag prime has doesn't match what her energy consumption demands.  Since she's an older frame, she didn't get any sort of increase in energy like the recent primes did.  I've gone both solo and with other insane dps frames, and she's still doing incredibly well.

Side note, everyone in that squad brought ridiculous weapons and had insane playstyles.  I honestly didn't think the stats would be that drastic.

[fatpig84]

I disagree with exp range nerfing because it makes Draco the only interception planet worth playing. 
DE just handily destroyed all other interception missions without even factoring in their size. 
Worst of all, it affects spy missions as well.

I disagree with the Polarize nerf. It doing nearly zilch at high levels. Casting Polarize 11 times (with high power strength) to remove armor/shield on level 100+ folks is wrong.  It should be boosted by percentage, in exchange of doing no damage when enemy has no more shields or armor (like currently). Just replace it with a stun.

The rest I am pretty much okay. But blessing having a capped range and DR, with no WOL buff? I could be more salty but I know trinity is pretty powerful, so I can't complain that much.

 

Edited May 31, 2016 by fatpig84

[Doom_Bunny]

7 hours ago, Stratego89 said:

From experience I can tell you everything you just said there- AGAIN- is wrong. 

And yes- overload has a duration, but unless you're going with a very... unique build... that damage cap is more likely than not always going to be hit first.

Again... shock doesn't have a range. It does and it doesn't. The CAST RANGE is infinite. No matter how far away you're looking- it will hit. Even with maximum negative range. It doesn't matter. The ONLY thing range affects is the CHAIN LINK range- and that's defaulted at 15m. That's a LONG distance. After that point more range is effectively pointless in the situations it's best in- shutting down a small group of enemies in close range that are gonna stomp you while reloading or something.

Overload (Base stats): Butcher

Under level 60-70 the Butcher would continue to die without meeting either the damage cap or the duration. At these levels and above the Butcher would last the entire duration.

In a group of 8 Butchers all of them died below level 70. At level 70 in a group of 8 few of the Butchers would only just survive after meeting the damage cap. However as more died off or met the damage cap those that remained in the effect continued taking damage for the entire duration.

*Note: Avoided activating the passive as much as possible. I kept it to a standard of 20 points.

I've run this test many times on varying enemies and the same thing happens each time. The only time the damage cap is reached is if the enemies are a high enough level (or your strength stat is low comparatively to the enemies level) and they are clustered enough to hurt each other during the effect. However those enemies that are separate from the cluster are unlikely to meet the damage cap; usually lasting for the entire duration.

On one hand you can deal a massive amount of damage to a cluster of enemies (if only the damage cap didn't stop it). On the other hand you could lock down sparse enemies for the duration of the effect however Overloads range isn't so great.

I see what you mean with Shock now. I found some more room to test it in. Having infinite range is a bit odd but that's my bad.

[Stratego89]

16 minutes ago, Postal_pat said:

Overload (Base stats): Butcher

Under level 60-70 the Butcher would continue to die without meeting either the damage cap or the duration. At these levels and above the Butcher would last the entire duration.

In a group of 8 Butchers all of them died below level 70. At level 70 in a group of 8 few of the Butchers would only just survive after meeting the damage cap. However as more died off or met the damage cap those that remained in the effect continued taking damage for the entire duration.

*Note: Avoided activating the passive as much as possible. I kept it to a standard of 20 points.

I've run this test many times on varying enemies and the same thing happens each time. The only time the damage cap is reached is if the enemies are a high enough level (or your strength stat is low comparatively to the enemies level) and they are clustered enough to hurt each other during the effect. However those enemies that are separate from the cluster are unlikely to meet the damage cap; usually lasting for the entire duration.

On one hand you can deal a massive amount of damage to a cluster of enemies (if only the damage cap didn't stop it). On the other hand you could lock down sparse enemies for the duration of the effect however Overloads range isn't so great.

I see what you mean with Shock now. I found some more room to test it in. Having infinite range is a bit odd but that's my bad.

Here's my issue. Butchers- yes, it'll kill them OR keep them locked down. But butchers are butchers. The things that REALLY matter when you're using CC is the HEAVY units, and right now the current damage cap mechanic to determine how things stay locked down does not work well with heavy units.

This is why I'm of the opinion that the amount of damage done to enemies per shock should be a % of the max health of the enemy (as scott said it would be) and with the damage cap being a % OF that %. For example- lets say you have a lvl whatever heavy gunner and a bunch of butchers around them. That heavy gunner has let's say 1000 health. Let's for the sake of example set the % of max health as damage at 10. The heavy gunner will do 100 damage per shock to anyone that gets in range of them. Let's also say the "damage cap" % is 1000% of % max health. So these shocks could do a maximum of 1000 damage FROM the heavy gunner before the heavy gunner ALONE would be released from his binds. If everything was balanced well the damage from heavy enemies would be enough to fry a few small fries around them while leaving them locked down for a period or the full duration- and smaller enemies en masse wouldn't do too much overall damage. The damage needed to be done to RELEASE a person should be the amount of damage done to other enemies AFTER the calculations of body modifiers, health types, etc etc- otherwise you might as well just set it to a certain number of shocks.

Complex? For sure, but I think it would work better than we have now and would also add a fair amount of damage scaling to go with the ability that wouldn't end up overpowered. it's all about the values they set, as long as they aren't too high the scaling wouldn't let you cheese end game- since you can't really hit enemies over and over for more damage, only refresh what they can do- and it's reliant on enemies being crowded together and very situational towards that for it's damage.

 

That all being said- your testing DEFINITELY does not reflect the same as mine. I said in my "my 2 cents on the volt rework" thread that I am almost POSITIVE there are several really bad bugs atm with Discharge. Ranging anywhere from enemies not being affected AT ALL to some being released early to some spazzing out and losing their animations to some being affected but still being able to shoot. Overall the CC effect of it seems to be broken in many ways. It's possible what I saw is a bug just as much as it's possible it's just how it works and what YOU saw was a bug. Whichever the case is it either needs fixing or needs to change regardless imo.

Another thing- I personally consider overload's range amazing. If it was any higher than it already is he'd have way too strong of a CC once the bugs I believe I've seen are fixed.

As for shock- it's refreshing to see someone actually go in and test after being told something instead of continuing to simply say they are right based on nothing...

[izzatuw]

The no's are leading the overall votes by 33%

[Doom_Bunny]

1 hour ago, Stratego89 said:

Here's my issue. Butchers- yes, it'll kill them OR keep them locked down. But butchers are butchers. The things that REALLY matter when you're using CC is the HEAVY units, and right now the current damage cap mechanic to determine how things stay locked down does not work well with heavy units.

This is why I'm of the opinion that the amount of damage done to enemies per shock should be a % of the max health of the enemy (as scott said it would be) and with the damage cap being a % OF that %. For example- lets say you have a lvl whatever heavy gunner and a bunch of butchers around them. That heavy gunner has let's say 1000 health. Let's for the sake of example set the % of max health as damage at 10. The heavy gunner will do 100 damage per shock to anyone that gets in range of them. Let's also say the "damage cap" % is 1000% of % max health. So these shocks could do a maximum of 1000 damage FROM the heavy gunner before the heavy gunner ALONE would be released from his binds. If everything was balanced well the damage from heavy enemies would be enough to fry a few small fries around them while leaving them locked down for a period or the full duration- and smaller enemies en masse wouldn't do too much overall damage. The damage needed to be done to RELEASE a person should be the amount of damage done to other enemies AFTER the calculations of body modifiers, health types, etc etc- otherwise you might as well just set it to a certain number of shocks.

Complex? For sure, but I think it would work better than we have now and would also add a fair amount of damage scaling to go with the ability that wouldn't end up overpowered. it's all about the values they set, as long as they aren't too high the scaling wouldn't let you cheese end game- since you can't really hit enemies over and over for more damage, only refresh what they can do- and it's reliant on enemies being crowded together and very situational towards that for it's damage.

 

That all being said- your testing DEFINITELY does not reflect the same as mine. I said in my "my 2 cents on the volt rework" thread that I am almost POSITIVE there are several really bad bugs atm with Discharge. Ranging anywhere from enemies not being affected AT ALL to some being released early to some spazzing out and losing their animations to some being affected but still being able to shoot. Overall the CC effect of it seems to be broken in many ways. It's possible what I saw is a bug just as much as it's possible it's just how it works and what YOU saw was a bug. Whichever the case is it either needs fixing or needs to change regardless imo.

Another thing- I personally consider overload's range amazing. If it was any higher than it already is he'd have way too strong of a CC once the bugs I believe I've seen are fixed.

As for shock- it's refreshing to see someone actually go in and test after being told something instead of continuing to simply say they are right based on nothing...

Butchers are just my test dummies for getting the basics before moving onto different enemies.

I agree it should be a percentage.

Yeah, they are new abilities so there is a lot of room for potential bugs.

I haven't seen mine go past 5m at base range, it even struggled to get all 8 Butchers. Could possibly be due to a bug not affecting all the enemies.

I tested the abilities when I first got them. Then ran through a few missions to get a lovely personal build. I've re-tested Volt, Mag, and Valkyr because someone said it doesn't work that way >.> Except for shock because I assumed it still worked like the old one.

[izzatuw]

16 hours ago, izzatuw said:

500 votes are in and the current results

16 hours later

 

[Stratego89]

1 hour ago, Postal_pat said:

I haven't seen mine go past 5m at base range, it even struggled to get all 8 Butchers. Could possibly be due to a bug not affecting all the enemies.

I tested the abilities when I first got them. Then ran through a few missions to get a lovely personal build. I've re-tested Volt, Mag, and Valkyr because someone said it doesn't work that way >.> Except for shock because I assumed it still worked like the old one.

Yeah that's DEFINITELY a bug right there- base range is 20m... This is what I was talking about by it hitting but not always locking down enemies. This confirms it for me- something is wrong with discharge.

Btw- shock has always been an infinite cast range. Like... always. That was one of my favorite parts about it. It has always been great for supporting/guarding team mates from a distance.