Overpowered players

[xmegarockx]

no no no no, no more nerfs this will kill players from keep playing the game.

[blackheartstar_pc]

12 hours ago, -S-O-Kranker said:

There are enough other games out there. Play another where you cant do it! And yes i have fun oneshooting enemies till 40mins of any survival. And i still have fun till 1h40min where i need more shots to kill heavier units. This game is fine. That overpowerdness is what makes this game to what it is.

Yes to this.

 

No to the opening post. I play Warframe to have fun and being over powered is very fun. If I want a challenge in the game I have the option to make it challenging for myself as does everyone else. Use unranked mods or less mods. Use beginner weapons in areas with higher ranking enemies. Do not encourage the ruination of the game for other people which is what you're suggesting.

 

Remember you have the option to not be over powered, and always have. If they change the game to accommodate you the people who enjoy being over powered lose their option, and judging by the 3rd post in this thread a lot of people like that option. It's a 3rd person action game after all. Go figure.

Edited June 15, 2016 by blackheartstar_pc

[Fuzzy-Bunny]

34 minutes ago, blackheartstar_pc said:

Yes to this.

 

No to the opening post. I play Warframe to have fun and being over powered is very fun. If I want a challenge in the game I have the option to make it challenging for myself as does everyone else. Use unranked mods or less mods. Use beginner weapons in areas with higher ranking enemies. Do not encourage the ruination of the game for other people which is what you're suggesting.

 

Remember you have the option to not be over powered, and always have. If they change the game to accommodate you the people who enjoy being over powered lose their option, and judging by the 3rd post in this thread a lot of people like that option. It's a 3rd person action game after all. Go figure.

 

Right back at you. You can always go to mercury if you want to feel OP and have your "fun" using fully modded frames and Synoid simulor to show those evil corpus who's boss.

[Wandering_Cyberdragoness]

Just gonna say this. Your suggestions seem to suggest a lack of experience in higher-tier missions, given that Sorties, T4 Endless, and raids all strip the whole OPness illusion and put us back on the defensive, no matter how geared up we are.

[Fuzzy-Bunny]

3 minutes ago, Xen_Ashwood said:

Just gonna say this. Your suggestions seem to suggest a lack of experience in higher-tier missions, given that Sorties, T4 Endless, and raids all strip the whole OPness illusion and put us back on the defensive, no matter how geared up we are.

I'm beginning to sound like a broken record here, but the reason we have such ridiculous enemies in the first place is because players are allowed to spam their powers with impunity and kill most enemies with a single shot. Reducing player damage and ability spamming to more reasonable levels would allow DEV's to tone down enemies especially nullifiers and eximuses. I'll say it one last time, endless missions are not supposed to be balanced or fair. They're designed to overwhelm the player.

[blackheartstar_pc]

27 minutes ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

 

Right back at you. You can always go to mercury if you want to feel OP and have your "fun" using fully modded frames and Synoid simulor to show those evil corpus who's boss.

You miss the point that if the game is changed in the way the op wants meaning no ability spamming a portion of the player base will lose how they enjoy playing. Where the other side who are for the degradation of powers, frames and weapons have the ability to play right now in a non overpowered way. One side can do exactly what they want right now (not be over powered) and for some reason want to force it on everyone. Where if they get their way the other side (the spammers) loses how they play.

 

Also my personal fun is running T1-4 endless missions with fully modded lower tier weapons. Think 7 Forma Branton, Cernos and the like. Also do not use Primed or nightmare mods on non Prime frames which I still use, so I think your idea of my "fun" is a little off the mark.

Edited June 15, 2016 by blackheartstar_pc

[(PSN)AllEyezOnThee]

2 minutes ago, blackheartstar_pc said:

You miss the point that if the game is changed in the way the op wants meaning no ability spamming a portion of the player base will lose how they enjoy playing. Where the other side who are for the degradation of powers, frames and weapons have the ability to play right now in a non overpowered way. One side can do exactly what they want right now (not be over powered) and for some reason want to force it on everyone. Where if they get their way the other side (the spammers) loses how they play.

 

Also my personal fun is running T1-4 endless missions with fully modded lower tier weapons. Think 7 Forma Branton, Cernos and the like.

OP things trivialize new content and story mode when bosses can get one shot which leads to them adding invulnerability which isn't the solution. 

Spamming powers shouldn't be enjoyable and should be tiresome there is no reason to be able to do that.

Go use simulacrum if you want to spam all day.

Your argument is invalid for the sole reason a large sum of people won't handicap themselves when new things come out, so it becomes a cake walk to acquire new content.

Nothing should be under powered or over powered so that all weapons/frames are viable and enemies don't become bullet sponges.

THAT is why everything needs a hardcap nerf/balance in order to make everything viable and banish cheese from players and enemies.

[Chromatrescu]

3 hours ago, Urlan said:

Virtual Hive Five! :)

High Five ! 

4 hours ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

If both are OP then they are "balanced". The issue here is that for 90% of the game content enemy difficulty is completely trivial. Even T3/4 survivals take a while to become challenging. Then there is a sweet spot of "challenge" where enemies can take a few hits but dish out good damage in return. And after that short sweet spot enemies become murderous bullet sponges that can take you out in a few or even a single hit.

Also, keep in mind that you can only find that short sweet spot in endless missions that were never supposed to be balanced or in sorties, raids,...

If you don't like to be invested when you play and want to feel like a god, why not just go on easier maps? 

Yes . Both are needed to be balanced , but you have to think like this : 

Everyone not felling like a god-shake , even a high rank having trouble on T3 - T4 

I suggest you like this to fell the game , then try to deliver a nice topic : 

1. Do solo Tower IV Survival mission with no Equinox or Tonkor or high crit melee weapon , try to use Banshee or Oberon or Excailbur [ 3 squishy warframes ] , Oberon have defensive , which deliver HP , but others 2 are tough since they only have 1 - 2 crowl control abilities . Use a rifle or sniper rifle or bows , i would recommend using Rakta Cernos or Vaykor Hek for restoring a little bit HP for Excalibur or Banshee , using secondary like Aksilleto Prime , Vaykor Marelok or Rakta Ballistica , Atomos or your favorite secondary [ simply this is just a recommendation ] 
2. Do puzzle , moon spy , sabotages , law of retribution , jordas verdict , you will see their map tier is very difficult [ for some un-experienced players ] , expectally the Cropus - Grinner Sabotage , which is the hardest map tier you will know , since their caches put on very difficult locations 
3. Experiences over-powered enemies , even a good crowl control warframe could easily die because of them

Also , there's a funny quote that makes me laugh XD 

4 hours ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

If you don't like to be invested when you play and want to feel like a god, why not just go on easier maps? 

Simply that rare resources or nessessary equipment usually appears on those map , not like we saw it too hard then we leave when we know there are good resources up there

I would recommend you to explore the game more , -> everybody <- are already have a hard time on hard tier maps or difficult enemy scaling or nerfs , simply DE wants to make us focus during the game , so they did that , but some people that easily to die or too hard to pass will say like this , I'm still fine with the game currently really ! 

 

Edited June 15, 2016 by LittleRiot.Teemo

[HeinXeed]

Why everybody thinks Nullifiers are broken? I just enter their bubbles and one shoot kill them. Easy as that. The only frame I avoid doing this is Loki, because of course I would get killed on the same second, but even with rhino's and nezha's iron skin/warding halo i just enter the bubble and kill it. The bursas are another history, if you are not alert they may hit kill you easily on sortie or alike levels, but this would be your fault if happened; Lotus alerts you about bursas and alikes, and they are a mob that in most cases only spawns if the player let it happens. Most people want to remove "cheese" monster, but they are not cheese, they are differente, you're wishing to remove what make mobs differentes. Which grinner units are differente from Lancers, if not Bombards and Napalms? Will you tell me that shielders and buthcers offers danger? Or variety? A month or two ago, I was really upset with Bursas/Napalms/Bombards (but not with Nullifiers, they are really easy to kill), because  those monster really hit kill my noobish Loki, and it really made me go mad about it; But now, understanding that, even with a squishy frame i have the condition to hit kill these mobs, or at least find ways to kill them (being invisible or disarming them, hitting with Ember's fireball and stunning them).

Seriously, I've been wondering most about Nullifiers. Why are they so cheesy? While scorchs 1 hit kill your sentinels 4 times? Napalms hits you more than the Fx let you see? I not condemning scorchs or napalms either, they really add challenge to a game where basic mobs you can kill while breathing. We do not have "cheesy" mobs, only mobs that do not scale well, but I do agree that we have cheesy skills and damage 3.0 and the changes on mods stated here would be enough to correct this "chessyness"

Sorry if I misleaded the original discussion, but returning to the OP's post, I really agree with all:

15 hours ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

• Mods like seration need to go. They add nothing to the game other than being resource sinks.
• Multishot mods also need to use extra ammo. There is no reason not to equip them now and they basically cheat the ingame ammo system.
• Elemental damage mods should convert existing damage to their element. Something like converting 40% of stock damage to their element while adding 20% bonus (max rank). This would also have the side effect of making the physical damage type mods viable.
• Add skill indexed mods. These mods would award certain play styles and force players to actually improve their skills instead of just bullet hosing enemies until they die.
• Rework crits. What are crits? Why would there be a % chance of doing more damage? Aren't crits supposed to be extra damage from hitting enemy vitals? Crits would be fine in MMO's with no first person aim, but warframe has that as well as body part damage multipliers. In the end crits serve no purpose other than another flat layer of damage and rewarding headshots

All of this ^ makes sense and could be well implemented,  the only thing that i dont find good, and DE already said this too, is adding cooldowns to skills. Although in other games it works, DE seems to think that it wont work on warframe, and I dont think it would be too.

Sorry for any english mistake :(

[Chromatrescu]

12 minutes ago, HeinXeed said:

Why everybody thinks Nullifiers are broken? I just enter their bubbles and one shoot kill them. Easy as that. The only frame I avoid doing this is Loki, because of course I would get killed on the same second, but even with rhino's and nezha's iron skin/warding halo i just enter the bubble and kill it. The bursas are another history, if you are not alert they may hit kill you easily on sortie or alike levels, but this would be your fault if happened; Lotus alerts you about bursas and alikes, and they are a mob that in most cases only spawns if the player let it happens. Most people want to remove "cheese" monster, but they are not cheese, they are differente, you're wishing to remove what make mobs differentes. Which grinner units are differente from Lancers, if not Bombards and Napalms? Will you tell me that shielders and buthcers offers danger? Or variety? A month or two ago, I was really upset with Bursas/Napalms/Bombards (but not with Nullifiers, they are really easy to kill), because  those monster really hit kill my noobish Loki, and it really made me go mad about it; But now, understanding that, even with a squishy frame i have the condition to hit kill these mobs, or at least find ways to kill them (being invisible or disarming them, hitting with Ember's fireball and stunning them).

Seriously, I've been wondering most about Nullifiers. Why are they so cheesy? While scorchs 1 hit kill your sentinels 4 times? Napalms hits you more than the Fx let you see? I not condemning scorchs or napalms either, they really add challenge to a game where basic mobs you can kill while breathing. We do not have "cheesy" mobs, only mobs that do not scale well, but I do agree that we have cheesy skills and damage 3.0 and the changes on mods stated here would be enough to correct this "chessyness"

Sorry if I misleaded the original discussion, but returning to the OP's post, I really agree with all:

All of this ^ makes sense and could be well implemented,  the only thing that i dont find good, and DE already said this too, is adding cooldowns to skills. Although in other games it works, DE seems to think that it wont work on warframe, and I dont think it would be too.

Sorry for any english mistake :(

Again , please do Sortie mission or T3-T4 Defense mission , you will see how annoying these guys is 

Example :You were having a nice day by jumping into the nucifliers and kill them , but one day , you jumped in and there's an ancient + a bombard + 2 heavy gunners inside it , you died peacefully OwO 

Edited June 15, 2016 by LittleRiot.Teemo

[HeinXeed]

28 minutes ago, LittleRiot.Teemo said:

9 minutes ago, LittleRiot.Teemo said:

Again , please do Sortie mission or T3-T4 Defense mission , you will see how annoying these guys is 

Example :You were having a nice day by jumping into the nucifliers and kill them , but one day , you jumped in and there's an ancient + a bombard + 2 heavy gunners inside it , you death peacefully OwO 

Right now I'm playing with Inaros, so using it's first skill is kinda enough for avoiding these mobs; I see nullifiers most as a treat to buff dependent frames, as Nezha or Rhino, since their buffs are dispelled when entering the bubble, but with frost/inaros i dont see no problem ON Nullifiers. Napalms for me are more dangerous than bombards, but both are really strong in sorties, and even I saying that I'm not facing any major problems with them playing as Inaros, I struggle with other frame as well. What I'm trying to say is that Nullifiers are not the problem, since only (Corrupted)Bombards or (Corrupted)Heavygunners may stay inside their bubbles, since Napalms/Scorchs are Grinner only. 

Ancients may be really trouble; it does not offer any real damage or danger in the aspect of killing your warframe, but giving it's aura to bombards and heavy gunners seems not fair, and Nullifiers DISPELLS powers, why would it receive the Ancient's Aura? I would rather see a increase to (Corrupted) Bombards/Heavygunners damage and they not being able to receive the Ancient's Aura;

it seems that people want Nullifiers to be removed from the game, but he's not a problem, not by himself at least; 

Edited June 15, 2016 by HeinXeed

[Jangkrik]

4 minutes ago, HeinXeed said:

Why everybody thinks Nullifiers are broken? I just enter their bubbles and one shoot kill them. Easy as that. The only frame I avoid doing this is Loki, because of course I would get killed on the same second, but even with rhino's and nezha's iron skin/warding halo i just enter the bubble and kill it.

The Nullifier itself isn't broken.

But Nullifier + Sapping Ospreys + Shockwave Moa + Bursa Moa + Detron Crewman + Corpus Tech or Nullifier + Corrupted Heavy Gunner + Corrupted Bombard + Heavy Gunner Eximus + Corrupted Bombard Eximus ARE broken, especially with Nullifier stacking where you have 2+ Nullifiers sharing their bubbles.

There's no "enter their bubbles and one shot kill them" when playing against high level Nullifiers (except if you're using Inaros) because entering the bubble will almost always results in death, especially if the Nullifier is an Arctic Eximus (which is much harder to kill). The only solution when facing against high level Nullifiers is popping their bubble, which is a very ineffective strategy due to the damage per shot capping of their bubbles that renders high damage low RoF weapons useless.

[Chromatrescu]

Just now, HeinXeed said:

Right now I'm playing with Inaros, so using it's first skill is kinda enough for avoiding these mobs; I see nullifiers most as a treat to buff dependet frames, as Nezha or Rhino, since their buffs are dispelled when entering the bubble, but with frost/inaros i dont see no problem ON Nullifiers. Napalms for me are more dangerous than bombards, but both are really strong in sorties, and even I saying that I'm not facing any major problems with them playing as Inaros, I struggle with other frame as well. What I'm trying to say is that Nullifiers are not the problem, since only (Corrupted)Bombards or (Corrupted)Heavygunners may stay inside their bubbles, since Napalms Scorchs are Grinner only. 

Ancients may be really trouble; it does not offer any real damage or danger in the aspect of killing your warframe, but giving it's aura to bombards and heavy gunners seems not fair, and Nullifiers DISPELLS powers, why would it receive the Ancient's Aura? I would rather see a increase to (Corrupted) Bombards/Heavygunners damage and they not being able to receive the Ancient's Aura;

it seems that people want Nullifiers to be removed from the game, but he's not a problem, not by himself at least

Inaros is too good , you can't deny that , also take Trinity for example , she will vunurable or easily to die by knockdown , she also can't use bless inside a nuciflier 

[blackheartstar_pc]

50 minutes ago, (PS4)lNoctus said:

OP things trivialize new content and story mode when bosses can get one shot which leads to them adding invulnerability which isn't the solution. 

Spamming powers shouldn't be enjoyable and should be tiresome there is no reason to be able to do that.

Go use simulacrum if you want to spam all day.

Your argument is invalid for the sole reason a large sum of people won't handicap themselves when new things come out, so it becomes a cake walk to acquire new content.

Nothing should be under powered or over powered so that all weapons/frames are viable and enemies don't become bullet sponges.

THAT is why everything needs a hardcap nerf/balance in order to make everything viable and banish cheese from players and enemies.

That is your opinion and does not render mine invalid. A seemingly larger sum of players do not want to have your handicaps forced upon them. Not everything needs to be or should be viable. That doesn't even make sense for a 3rd person action game. The quest is to become more powerful and trivialize content as you go or at least in every action game I've played. If everything is viable everywhere against everything then other than looks there would be no point in using various weapons. Besides DE said the players will always be overpower compared to the enemy. It's often 100 to 1 balanced for us to win. As far as spamming powers goes if somebody enjoys it I see no reason to rip that away from them. Killing things is fun and if that's how they like to do it then that is reason enough.

Edited June 15, 2016 by blackheartstar_pc

[HeinXeed]

7 minutes ago, LittleRiot.Teemo said:

Inaros is too good , you can't deny that , also take Trinity for example , she will vunurable or easily to die by knockdown , she also can't use bless inside a nuciflier

Yeah, i don't want to say "hey everyone, play only with Inaros and be happy", otherwise it would just be another cheesy tactic

 

 

8 minutes ago, Jangkrik said:

But Nullifier + Sapping Ospreys + Shockwave Moa + Bursa Moa + Detron Crewman + Corpus Tech or Nullifier + Corrupted Heavy Gunner + Corrupted Bombard + Heavy Gunner Eximus + Corrupted Bombard Eximus ARE broken, especially with Nullifier stacking where you have 2+ Nullifiers sharing their bubbles.

This would be really annoying. I already find bursas annoying enough. They really should be checked, these guys are not normal. 

By the way, dont get me wrong, I'm not saying that Nullifiers are not a broken enemy at all, I'm just trying to avoid it to be removed, since it's an enemy that pushes you a bit out of your confort zone, as Napalms and Bombards do it too. 
Maybe if could be a limit for whether Ancients or Nullifiers are presents, bombards or heavygunners, a single bursa at a given moment, it would be a better solution to just removing Nullifier from the game

Edited June 15, 2016 by HeinXeed

[Chromatrescu]

1 minute ago, HeinXeed said:

Yeah, i don't want to say "hey everyone, play only with Inaros and be happy", otherwise it would just be another cheesy tactic

 

 

This would be really annoying. I already find bursas annoying enough. They really should be checked, these guys are not normal. 

By the way, dont get me wrong, I'm not saying that Nullifiers are not a broken enemy at all, I'm just trying to avoid it to be removed, since it's an enemy that pushes you a bit out of your confort zone, as Napalms and Bombards do it too. 
Maybe if could be a limit for wether Ancients or Nullifiers are presents, bombards or heavygunners, a single bursa at a given moment, it would be a better solution to just removing Nullifier from the game

I'd agreed , but did you play the Part 3 of yesterday Sortie ? Too annoying with Nuciflier 

[tnccs215]

The problem with overpowered players is that, unlike what most have claimed so far, their trivializing style of play does affect everyone else.

Games, specially free-to-play games, require a very tight balance between effort spend, time, and reward. If you can make effort irrelevant through pure cheese, all that is left is time-- which leads to higher farming requirements because longuer missions=more resources=smaller relative resource value=prices going up. Seriously, haven't you studied history?). And since time spend on unchallenging missions is boring, you end up with a bored community craving for more challenge.

More: The effort to get a certain reward is now null, so the devs must bring it back up, otherwise you'll get it too soon, too easily. And since cheese frames make level scaling borderline irrelevant, what do you have to introduce? A terribly steep enemy level curve so that your godly powerful weapons actually have some strugle destroying enemies, and cheese enemies to counteract all your cheese spam.

So yes, your "style of play" affects everyone, because difficulty and scaling are arranged with the most efficient setups in mind. Because those are the ones that define what is hard or not.

And when there are so many of those ways, and those ways are so blandantly superior to everything else... The game changes to accommodate that. And since most of that superiority is achieved through cheese, well... You get cheese enemies.

Have you forgot why Nullifiers, Toxic Eximus, Energy Leeches, BURSAS, exist? Because its the only way to kinda make your life harder. And, of course, you end up screwing everyone else.

And the funny thing is, taking a tank Chroma into T4 survival gives the same feeling as taking, say, an Oberon to a Ceres one. Because, taking cheese damage reductions and multipliers, you end up taking and receiving the relative same damage. Of course, at that point, an Oberon can't take it.

When you have cheese frames as an option, you have to have cheese enemies to counteract. When you have cheese enemies, well... Cheese frames stop being an option into being mandatory.

So your "play style" basically screwed everyone elses. It installed the absence of a endgame. Raids are cheesefests because there is no other way for them to be vaguely challenging.

Because thats the catch: There are two types of people on the forums: Those who think that nerfs are required as the things are, and those who want to magically maintain godlike levels of power, while complaining that the game isn't challenging enough-- but fearing to admit that the game is only unchallenging because they are gods.

The Devs unwillingness to take away your power fantasy has led to absurd amounts of powercreep, and the installation of a binary state of existence across everything: You are either full on health or dead. You are either godly or useless. You are either full of energy or completely empty.

 

Nerfs are not only important for balancing the game: They are, now more than ever, FUNDAMENTAL for this game to survive for long without having to CONSTANTLY pump up new and unbearably harder content.

And your unwillingness to part away from your trivializing tonkor is what holds this game down!

 

So yes, your ovepoweredness has to go. A game that takes 40 minutes to get challenging on a high tier mission with EXTRA DAMAGE is a bad game.

Cheese and overpowered equipment must go, and only that will allow enemy scaling to be toned down, and nullifiers to kiss bye bye.

 

METAPHORIC TL;DR:

It is not status that must get to the level of crit. Its crit that must get to the level of status.

[Nopy117]

16 hours ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

 

• Nerf efficiency mods. Reducing the cost of skills to 1/4 is the biggest reason why skills are so spammable. What's worse is that this comes with little to no drawbacks which can be countered by duration mods. Efficiency mods are currently the norm since they basically remove the limit on casting. I suggest giving streamline and fleeting expertise more drawbacks and let them do exactly as their names imply. Force the player to decide between a weaker (streamlined) spammable build or more powerful builds.
• Nerf energy vampire. Energy vampire was OP before but with the recent rework of awarding the remaining energy on kill it has become broken. EV should be reverted back to it's original form.
• Rework Trinity. Not only does trinity outperform any other support frame in healing and damage resistance, she can also serve as an infinite energy generator at the same time. And as if that wasn't enough she can also face tank pretty much anything.
• Limit the restores. Limit restores on each revive so the players can't just spam them or give them a cooldown.

 

Maybe this fixes the energy system, but you know what else it does? Makes the game the game extremely boring and not fun. If these changes were implemented i would actually stop playing.

[HeinXeed]

1 minute ago, LittleRiot.Teemo said:

I'd agreed , but did you play the Part 3 of yesterday Sortie ? Too annoying with Nuciflier 

Well, coincidency or not, I didn't played it. I was not finding people to play even changing my region, so I kinda lost my patience. The problem I see most with the Nullifier at this moment is with which unit it appears together. It is a 'weak' unity, but with a powerfull treat, as is the Ancient, On the infested faction, Ancients do not give their auras to broodmothers and another unit ( i dont remember the name now), so avoiding it's aura to Nullifiers/Bombards/Gunners would be enough I guess, on the Orokin Scenario. 
On Corpus Scenario, they have "weaker units", as I said, but with powerfull threats; the comba's, bursas, drones annoying as hell, etc. They have crowd control where grinner have damage, and it fits to the lore. 
One solution? Why not let Nullifiers throw the same "nullifying grenades" that the bursas drops? They are smaller, you may remove it when hitting E with melee, and are just occasional. We would still have an enemy that hinders skills/buffs useless, but not with these broken characteristics.

[Robm]

How about we just wait till damage 3.0 and other warframes are reworked.  

Trinity was just reworked. If you are wondering why she performs better then any support frame it's because she can heal and give energy, which is based on affinity range. Plus she is limited to only 75% bless now. IMO, she is completely balanced now. 

 Most of the stuff you talked about OP is stuff that will be changed in U19. Most frames will be reworked soon.

[Wandering_Cyberdragoness]

1 hour ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

I'm beginning to sound like a broken record here, but the reason we have such ridiculous enemies in the first place is because players are allowed to spam their powers with impunity and kill most enemies with a single shot. Reducing player damage and ability spamming to more reasonable levels would allow DEV's to tone down enemies especially nullifiers and eximuses. I'll say it one last time, endless missions are not supposed to be balanced or fair. They're designed to overwhelm the player.

Well, yeah. Murdering hordes instantly is great fun. It's why a lot of us play this game. 

[blackheartstar_pc]

1 hour ago, (PS4)lNoctus said:

Your argument is invalid for the sole reason a large sum of people won't handicap themselves when new things come out, so it becomes a cake walk to acquire new content.

Wanted to retouch on this a bit. Players do not have to handicap themselves when new stuff comes out as the newest stuff is already pre handicapped. Also saying you want a challenge but do not want to limit yourself (due to having overpowered stuff) to create the challenge but rather want the game changed for everybody to meet your needs is like seeing somebody say they want to quit smoking but can't until they stop selling them at everywhere. Self control and limiting skills for life.

Edited June 15, 2016 by blackheartstar_pc

[tnccs215]

41 minutes ago, HeinXeed said:

Why everybody thinks Nullifiers are broken? I just enter their bubbles and one shoot kill them. Easy as that. The only frame I avoid doing this is Loki, because of course I would get killed on the same second, but even with rhino's and nezha's iron skin/warding halo i just enter the bubble and kill it. The bursas are another history, if you are not alert they may hit kill you easily on sortie or alike levels, but this would be your fault if happened; Lotus alerts you about bursas and alikes, and they are a mob that in most cases only spawns if the player let it happens. Most people want to remove "cheese" monster, but they are not cheese, they are differente, you're wishing to remove what make mobs differentes. Which grinner units are differente from Lancers, if not Bombards and Napalms? Will you tell me that shielders and buthcers offers danger? Or variety? A month or two ago, I was really upset with Bursas/Napalms/Bombards (but not with Nullifiers, they are really easy to kill), because  those monster really hit kill my noobish Loki, and it really made me go mad about it; But now, understanding that, even with a squishy frame i have the condition to hit kill these mobs, or at least find ways to kill them (being invisible or disarming them, hitting with Ember's fireball and stunning them).

Seriously, I've been wondering most about Nullifiers. Why are they so cheesy? While scorchs 1 hit kill your sentinels 4 times? Napalms hits you more than the Fx let you see? I not condemning scorchs or napalms either, they really add challenge to a game where basic mobs you can kill while breathing. We do not have "cheesy" mobs, only mobs that do not scale well, but I do agree that we have cheesy skills and damage 3.0 and the changes on mods stated here would be enough to correct this "chessyness"

Sorry if I misleaded the original discussion, but returning to the OP's post, I really agree with all:

All of this ^ makes sense and could be well implemented,  the only thing that i dont find good, and DE already said this too, is adding cooldowns to skills. Although in other games it works, DE seems to think that it wont work on warframe, and I dont think it would be too.

Sorry for any english mistake :(

Ever tried taking a slow equinox into T4?

You'll know why they are overpowered.

Because Snipers in general, and Nullifiers in particular, are what make "staying alive" as dependent on skill as what reward you get on a Void Exterminate mission.

That is:

NOT

AT

ALL

Edited June 16, 2016 by tnccs215

[Aoden]

Saw "mods like Serration need to go" and stopped.

 

I guess you missed DE's planned rework to remove these "mandatory" mods, that you consider over powered, fix multi-shot not using extra ammo (since it's technically a bug according to DE), and increase/decrease weapon and enemy strength in general for a more balanced game.

 

For the time being, I suggest taking Serration, Split Chamber, and every other percentage damage boost off of your weapons and going to Europa. Tell us how you did.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Aoden

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

48 minutes ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

 

Right back at you. You can always go to mercury if you want to feel OP and have your "fun" using fully modded frames and Synoid simulor to show those evil corpus who's boss.

Then you'll have no problem with Mercury hosting every component for farming. The "make it challenging squad" always falls back on this quip, goto Mecury if you want to feel powerful. But in reality many are just farming materials, keys, and standing throughout the entirety of the star map and the only shovel that's gonna work is the Meta past Jupiter for many.

I think they need a mix of mini bosses like the Juggernaut for the mingling of vets with starters in PUGs and Alerts...fearful, can be triggered, and can be avoided by starters if needed, while vets can engage for better rewards. Keeping Starters stuck behind the wall like year 1's intercept mission on Earth will simply send them looking into a new game rather than pressing on. Seriously, Intercept on Earth for year one players was a real wall from the rest of the content for many.

Warframe signals to players, come be powerful. Use powers, run on the walls, cut space tyrants in half. Ect ect. It 's not Dark Souls, which signals come die often against amazing and disturbing bosses. Players have enough frustration in the drop tables as is. Everything between rotation AAB is simply entertainment to reach Rotation C. And since C is atrocious on being cluttered, De wisely allows players a second chance at C by them using mods and weapons to meet the next time mark against scaling enemy. 

How you chose to do so is up to the  individual player, so every player by now should know that you take your chances in a PUG, in any game from the past, present, and future in that you are going to run into  AFKs, trolls, and MIN/MAXERS. I know it's frustrating there's no physical loot cave to shut down them down other than the forums for the marked Mirage/Synoid Simulor, and Ash Bladestorm.

For many of us we just run the alert and go back to solo game play... And the argument that's not what De wants is fine, but in reality it's the result of years of abusive behavior that shut down mics and social interaction on first contact between indivudals that has made solo play so enticing. Playing with other players isn't some amazing party of best buddies to be rekindled and forced. 

Lastly, for years now the challenge argument has had Dragon Keys to hobble themselves with. So if you get your way then OP players should be afforded Phoenix Keys that do the opposite effect.  If that makes you scream NOOOO. Well then congrats on being an eight year old trapped in a adult body wanting his way and too bad for everyone else.

For all this time many have been afforded the argument for handicapping the entire player base with these optional keys. Did the masses cry out in happiness and embrace these equalizers? No. Nobody uses these hobble keys unless they forget to unequip them after running in the Orokin Derelict for Corrupted mods , yet... lets force it  across the board anyways? I guarantee that won't be the case with Keys providing buffs and powers.