Overpowered players

[IRVoidGuru]

On June 26, 2016 at 1:56 AM, Soketsu said:

in the 2 first pages I wanted to dig a little more, after 20 pages, where he was either not capable of or don't want to,not anymore, especially when I see his others reply

It's impossible cause the consequences of the previous balance patch was just uselessto the game most of the time, i will not be the only one who will be like that when your suggestion of balance will do nothing but making the game just more boring

it seems to me english isnt your first langauge. that being said though if i am getting your posts right i agree with you. these changes dont imply skill , they wont make more skilled players. these changes would make game vets Quit 

[Soketsu]

1 hour ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

it seems to me english isnt your first langauge. that being said though if i am getting your posts right i agree with you. these changes dont imply skill , they wont make more skilled players. these changes would make game vets Quit 

correct, it's my second language, I still need to practice (European level B2), so most of time when I write something (fast & with small amount emotion) my 1 st language take the power, and ... well you said it ^^

[Chipputer]

1 hour ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

these changes dont imply skill , they wont make more skilled players. these changes would make game vets Quit 

I don't understand how it would make veterans quit when you have numerous veterans complaining about how simple and cheesy the game has become.

I'd wager that it would actually make the newer generation of Warframe players quit-- the ones who are used to having their hands held by ignoring energy economy and CCing everything in existence.

[Fuzzy-Bunny]

On 26. 6. 2016 at 4:53 AM, DatDarkOne said:

They did put in enemies that nullify powers and/or drain energy.  Nullifiers, Combus, Eximus, etc.  There are also some enemies that do resist abilities.  Not that many.  Mostly the Capture targets come to mind at the moment.  :D

  Reveal hidden contents

 

As for the whole Trinity discussion, what happens to Trinity doesn't bother me at all.  This is because I never depend on Trinity for health or energy.  That would be because my frame of choice doesn't get any benefit from those skills anyway.  Well, not unless I drop Prowl, load up Artemis, and spam the hell out of it.  All while hoping Trinity will keep my energy and health up, because I would be doing a Leeroy Jenkins.  Nah, that's not how I want to play.  That style would be too dependent on Trinity.  I prefer being self sufficient.

 Word of note, my statements do not take into account LoR.  I don't play LoR because it's forced co-op.  That's just my reason and it doesn't reflect on anyone else.  :D

 

 

And what are the results? How did they change gameplay? From my experience, the only change they brought was the reduction in player agency. Nullifiers protect entire groups from CC and also counter slow firing/ small mag weapons. Comba and Scrambuses can be annoying to fight, especially when they're mixed in between a lot of troops and nullify vital abilities that you're relying on, but at least they're simple enough to deal with. Eximuses spit in the player's face with their radial auras that you can't really do much against other than: chaos, mind control, radiation proc ( Good luck if they block heat or electricity) and killing them ASAP. Bursas have greatly reduced vulnerability to CC and their riot shields make them almost invulnerable to gunfire from head on.

Don't you see how these enemies were designed to deny players from their powers? You want to spam your abilities? We'll prevent you from doing that. You want to lock down your foes with CC? We'll make enemies that resist or are immune to CC. You want to deal lots of damage? We'll introduce damage gates (nullifier, Juggernaut, Bursa). You want to deal elemental damage? We'll introduce elemental Eximuses to counter you and so on.

Do you really want warframe to evolve into a game where challenging enemies are only challenging because they're designed to take away our: powers, weapons, damage, energy,...?

3 hours ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

im a PS4 player so 75% discounts and such work a bit differently here. i wont get into all of that but in short our discounts work on a SINGLE market item once. from what iv heard its no where near as nice as what PC gets. feeling OP in non-endless missions was always bound to happen untill DE finds out that lvl 100-150 enemies are not a challenge, and not "end game content" the "energy system" is perfectly fine as it is, simply it needs to apply more restriction to how and when u get these abilitys. but i will still stand by the idea that this game would fall apart if players couldnt use thair powers as a MAIN sorce of game play. if i wanted another shooter i wouldnt be playing warframe. but this game has the aspects i like in a game. Power, and unlimited access to it. limiting or restricting us makes it more challenging yes. , more fun? no way 

Were abilities also a MAIN source of game play when you started out? Were you able to spam ults without fleeting expertise? Were you able to kill heavy units with a single shot? Was your ammo a non issue? Were you able to complete entire missions just by spamming abilities without even using weapons?

The way this game works atm is that player power spikes once they acquire all the core mods and start leveling them. That's because most mods are designed to increase our power in various aspects and the effects are often multiplicative especially between abilities and weapons. Starchart becomes a joke as a result and we are forced to fight against high level enemies with: unreasonable stats, enemies that nullify or limit our powers and damage, enemies with invulnerability phases,ect. How is DE supposed to find "the right level" for enemies, if they're forced to scale them to levels that completely ruin the suspension of disbelief? To a point where our auto-cannons disguised as anti-personnel weapons fail to kill with a few shots and we're so afraid of a degenerate clone wielding a Grakata or a Hind that we CC them so completely that they can't even retaliate.

[IRVoidGuru]

30 minutes ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

 

Were abilities also a MAIN source of game play when you started out? Were you able to spam ults without fleeting expertise? Were you able to kill heavy units with a single shot? Was your ammo a non issue? Were you able to complete entire missions just by spamming abilities without even using weapons?

The way this game works atm is that player power spikes once they acquire all the core mods and start leveling them. That's because most mods are designed to increase our power in various aspects and the effects are often multiplicative especially between abilities and weapons. Starchart becomes a joke as a result and we are forced to fight against high level enemies with: unreasonable stats, enemies that nullify or limit our powers and damage, enemies with invulnerability phases,ect. How is DE supposed to find "the right level" for enemies, if they're forced to scale them to levels that completely ruin the suspension of disbelief? To a point where our auto-cannons disguised as anti-personnel weapons fail to kill with a few shots and we're so afraid of a degenerate clone wielding a Grakata or a Hind that we CC them so completely that they can't even retaliate.

so your argument is that the game isnt as hard as it was when you started? or that players actually progress with mods? power is supposed to be gained, if u want a challenge like when u started get a frame and weapons remove the mods and get back on the starchart!. enemies built to counter our abilities are in the game cuz they provide the challenge to kill them that your asking for. stats ( all of them ) can get unreasonable not just efficientcy and damage. being temporarily limited by enemies is far more fun then being permenantly limited using your sugestions. has any 1 kept count of the likes/dislikes amounts coming from this post?. im more than sure more players would be against this assult of our current system rather then an advocate. im pretty sure that the game needs a change. im also sure that the changes u have sugested are not going to help this game, they will kill it 

[Chipputer]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

has any 1 kept count of the likes/dislikes amounts coming from this post?

This literally means nothing. Stop looking at the reputation meter as some form of validation for any sort of argument.

I have literally posted a topic and gotten zero likes and a few negative responses. A bit later I literally copied and pasted the same exact topic and got double digits of likes and mostly positive responses. There was nothing different in what I was saying.

Do you apply this logic to youtube content?
Tweets on twitter?
Facebook posts?

If you said yes then you are a problem. You should be analyzing the content and intent behind the content, not the little green number in the bottom right of the post. I could easily gather up all of my friends and have them upvote any one of my opinions. It means nothing.

 

YES, I took it out of your post and responded to that slightly out of context. It's because I'm getting tired of seeing it mentioned in any of these balance threads. "Ha! Nobody liked your post, or fewer liked yours than the views opposing it! That means it's bad and people don't agree with you! Now go away, you'll kill the game!"

[Fuzzy-Bunny]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

so your argument is that the game isnt as hard as it was when you started? or that players actually progress with mods? power is supposed to be gained, if u want a challenge like when u started get a frame and weapons remove the mods and get back on the starchart!.

Your argument is based on the assumption that we're fighting the same enemies as we did back when we started. Enemies on mercury are supposed to be killed mostly with weapons because players don't have mods or even leveled frames. Higher level enemies are supposed to require better gear as well as use of powers and skill in order to win. They are not supposed to be so trivial that players can solo them without trying.

Creating challenge by gimping yourself is silly to put it mildly. What would be the point of acquiring all the good gear if I'm supposed to gimp myself in order to get a challenge? You're also assuming that enemy behavior changes as they level scale (it doesn't).

3 minutes ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

enemies built to counter our abilities are in the game cuz they provide the challenge to kill them that your asking for. stats ( all of them ) can get unreasonable not just efficientcy and damage. being temporarily limited by enemies is far more fun then being permenantly limited using your sugestions. has any 1 kept count of the likes/dislikes amounts coming from this post?. im more than sure more players would be against this assult of our current system rather then an advocate. im pretty sure that the game needs a change. im also sure that the changes u have sugested are not going to help this game, they will kill it 

So you don't care about the lore, game mechanics and suspension of disbelief? Are you honestly OK with a fact that some defective clone or mindless mutant is magically able to drain your VOID MAGIC energy? Are you OK with enemies having 500k EHP? It's also funny how you say "temporarily" as if eximuses and other pests aren't ever-present in high level content.

 

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

And what are the results? How did they change gameplay? From my experience, the only change they brought was the reduction in player agency. Nullifiers protect entire groups from CC and also counter slow firing/ small mag weapons. Comba and Scrambuses can be annoying to fight, especially when they're mixed in between a lot of troops and nullify vital abilities that you're relying on, but at least they're simple enough to deal with. Eximuses spit in the player's face with their radial auras that you can't really do much against other than: chaos, mind control, radiation proc ( Good luck if they block heat or electricity) and killing them ASAP. Bursas have greatly reduced vulnerability to CC and their riot shields make them almost invulnerable to gunfire from head on.

Don't you see how these enemies were designed to deny players from their powers? You want to spam your abilities? We'll prevent you from doing that. You want to lock down your foes with CC? We'll make enemies that resist or are immune to CC. You want to deal lots of damage? We'll introduce damage gates (nullifier, Juggernaut, Bursa). You want to deal elemental damage? We'll introduce elemental Eximuses to counter you and so on.

Do you really want warframe to evolve into a game where challenging enemies are only challenging because they're designed to take away our: powers, weapons, damage, energy,...?

Your reading comprehension needs some work.  In one of your posts you said the game needed something to nullify powers (I'm not going to go though all the posts to find it).  I was just reminding you that the game does have those enemy types that you were saying the game needed. 

Now you change sides on your own argument?  Didn't you start this whole thing with the premise to limit ability spamming.  Now you trying to tell me how those enemies prevent you from spamming.  Dude, you are either very confused or just click baiting by picking random stuff to argue over. 

 

I will now answer how I deal with all of those enemies you named.  I simply put an arrow or two in their head.  Nullifiers, pop bubbles with a few arrows and then arrow to the head. Yes, Nullifiers can be killed this way with a bow( Dread, Paris, Cernos).  No need to dash or sprint.  Just take my sweet time and snipe them from long range before they are even aware that I'm in the area.  Just simple common sense and good tactics.  Powers just supplement my playstyle and not the other way around. 

[Soketsu]

 

32 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Your reading comprehension needs some work.  In one of your posts you said the game needed something to nullify powers (I'm not going to go though all the posts to find it).  I was just reminding you that the game does have those enemy types that you were saying the game needed. 

Now you change sides on your own argument?  Didn't you start this whole thing with the premise to limit ability spamming.  Now you trying to tell me how those enemies prevent you from spamming.  Dude, you are either very confused or just click baiting by picking random stuff to argue over. 

 

I will now answer how I deal with all of those enemies you named.  I simply put an arrow or two in their head.  Nullifiers, pop bubbles with a few arrows and then arrow to the head. Yes, Nullifiers can be killed this way with a bow( Dread, Paris, Cernos).  No need to dash or sprint.  Just take my sweet time and snipe them from long range before they are even aware that I'm in the area.  Just simple common sense and good tactics.  Powers just supplement my playstyle and not the other way around. 

one another time, it's affirmed

Edited June 28, 2016 by Soketsu

[ArcaneSnowdrop]

I like most of what you said, but I disagree with removing serration et al. Maybe nerfing them slightly, but removing them and making everything skill based would make people like me, who have only moderate skill at games like this and have never really been able to get past that, very, very frustrated. Having to try to fulfill specific conditions to get good damage when I still can't hit my bullet jumps reliably would make me want to stop playing.

[blackheartstar_pc]

3 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

I will now answer how I deal with all of those enemies you named.  I simply put an arrow or two in their head. 

Except Bursa I hope you're putting that arrow in their back ;)

 

With that I enjoy all of those enemies and will defend them. They are the only enemy types to have a different feel to them imo. Beyond bosses that is.

Edited June 29, 2016 by blackheartstar_pc

[ciaphuscain]

Objectively the worst post I have ever seen on this forum .OP your ideas are horrible and would ruin the gameplay in warframe . Literally would kill thebgame if those changes were implemented .

[Fuzzy-Bunny]

7 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Your reading comprehension needs some work.  In one of your posts you said the game needed something to nullify powers (I'm not going to go though all the posts to find it).  I was just reminding you that the game does have those enemy types that you were saying the game needed. 

 Right back at you. I NEVER said the game needed to nullify our powers. I said the energy economy needs to be fixed to limit ability spamming, so we wouldn't need enemies that are immune to our abilities.

Quote

Now you change sides on your own argument?  Didn't you start this whole thing with the premise to limit ability spamming.  Now you trying to tell me how those enemies prevent you from spamming.  Dude, you are either very confused or just click baiting by picking random stuff to argue over. 

Are you serious? How do nullifiers limit ability spamming? They don't, your powers just won't do anything or you're not able to cast them at all. Combas and scrambuses don't limit ability spam either, they prevent you from casting them. If you can't see the difference between having the choice to use an ability and waiting for the right opportunity because it's a limited resource and an ability to always spam your powers only to see them have no effect or not being able to cast them at all, then I really have nothing to discus with you. 

Quote

 

I will now answer how I deal with all of those enemies you named.  I simply put an arrow or two in their head.  Nullifiers, pop bubbles with a few arrows and then arrow to the head. Yes, Nullifiers can be killed this way with a bow( Dread, Paris, Cernos).  No need to dash or sprint.  Just take my sweet time and snipe them from long range before they are even aware that I'm in the area.  Just simple common sense and good tactics.  Powers just supplement my playstyle and not the other way around. 

Aren't you in the permanent prolw though? And no that doesn't always work either. What happens to your common sense long range sniping when that nully turns around and flees behind a corner/cover to recharge his bubble?

6 hours ago, Soketsu said:

 

one another time, it's affirmed

You prove you have nothing constructive to add, yet again.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Fuzzy-Bunny

[Soketsu]

Just now, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

You prove you have nothing constructive to add, yet again.

why should I add something ? It's not sure you would even understand the point, you will give me an answer with something out subject like the last time, when I've say 3 times the same thing before you understand, beside you already say something I want to confirm now

I post now cause it's amuse me to see other people to have some struggle with other thing than just your idea :p

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

Aren't you in the permanent prolw though? And no that doesn't always work either. What happens to your common sense long range sniping when that nully turns around and flees behind a corner/cover to recharge his bubble?

You don't have to be in Prowl to snipe from a distance without the enemy detecting you.  This also answers the second question.  If they don't detect you they will not flee for cover.  Shooting the bubble doesn't alert the Nullies.  That you even asked that question about nullies implies that you have little experience with them.  Either that or just no skill in stalking and shooting/sniping.

Interesting that you picked this side issue to focus on instead of the scenario I proposed that showed a hole in your original post.  Twist someone's words to distract others from seeing this hole in your suggested changes.  You asked for feedback, but yet you try to chastise or belittle any who do so.  After 28 pages of this B.S., I should have known better than to try to let you know of an oversight.   

Trying to discuss anything with you is like playing Chess with a pigeon - it knocks over the pieces, defecates on the board, and then flies back to its flock to brag about how it won.

 

Edited June 29, 2016 by DatDarkOne
correction

[ENIAK_Prime]

I'm glad to see someone else brought this up again. I made a topic about some of these very issues a while back, and it did get some good lengthy discussion but eventually it did quietly fade into the background and died.

If you're curious what I thought about the issue you can see the old topic I made here.

 

[TheBrsrkr]

6 hours ago, ciaphuscain said:

Objectively the worst post I have ever seen on this forum .OP your ideas are horrible and would ruin the gameplay in warframe . Literally would kill thebgame if those changes were implemented .

Saying that his ideas will ruin the game and then not saying how in any way, shape or form is not feedback, it's a waste of everyone's time. What's wrong with it? What is wrong with it? How would you change it? What would you do differently? How would you solve the proposed issues in his post? All things that have been said before, yes, but we didn't have your opinion on them, your perspective. Now we don't care. 

 

4 hours ago, Soketsu said:

why should I add something ? 

Because this is a forum, and forums are for discussion, which you have failed on multiple accounts to give. I understand that english isn't your first language, but this is what these forums are for. Deliver, or leave. 

 

2 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

You don't have to be in Prowl to snipe from a distance without the enemy detecting you.  This also answers the second question.  If they don't detect you they will not flee for cover.  Shooting the bubble doesn't alert the Nullies.  That you even asked that question about nullies implies that you have little experience with them.  Either that or just no skill in stalking and shooting/sniping.

That isn't the problem here. The problem is that this method that you suggest caters to an extremely specific playstyle, that requires a specific weapon in a specific map size because you sure as hell can't do that in the Corpus corridors. What of the person not playing with silent weapons. What of the one who prefers not to snipe from half a tile away so things get a wee bit challenging? What of the new player who can't just pump 2 arrows into his head? What of Timmy the power gamer with his mighty Dakka Prime shredding everything, including the Nullifier, before your bow is fully drawn? What of the Rhino with a Hek or something, who has to reload every 4 shots, regardless of if the bubble broke or not? Sure Nullifiers aren't an issue when you snipe half a tile away, because nothing is an issue when you're sniping half a tile away.

This is just one giant red herring because it is not a solution to the problem. It does not solve the issue. You not having a problem with it doesn't mean that there isn't a problem. And no, I didn't know that shooting nullifier bubbles didn't alert them, because when I shoot nullifier bubbles, it's usually close enough to everything else that it doesn't matter because I play Rhino, and Rhino isn't a stealthy guy. People who don't sneak around would also not notice this, because they don't sneak around. 

2 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Interesting that you picked this side issue to focus on instead of the scenario I proposed that showed a hole in your original post.  Twist someone's words to distract others from seeing this hole in your suggested changes.  

This is exactly what you did. See:

11 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Now you change sides on your own argument?  Didn't you start this whole thing with the premise to limit ability spamming.  Now you trying to tell me how those enemies prevent you from spamming.  Dude, you are either very confused or just click baiting by picking random stuff to argue over. 

Was it just limits? Did he just say limits to ability spamming? Or did he say limits in the form of changing how we cast and how efficiently we can cast? There you go with the strawmen again. One does not preclude the other. Enemies achieve stopping ability spam by stopping abilities. That is not what he wants. He said it himself, several times. But let's waste more of everyone's time, right? 

2 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

 You asked for feedback, but yet you try to chastise or belittle any who do so.  After 28 pages of this B.S., I should have known better than to try to let you know of an oversight.   

He asked for feedback, and chastised and belittles anyone who doesn't give it. What you're doing isn't giving feedback, it's wasting our time. Just because it is feedback on his idea doesn't mean he  can't criticise it, just as you are criticising his feedback on the game. That's what forums are for. Strawmen are not feedback. He'd herrings are not feedback. Saying "it sucks, I dun like it" is not feedback. Saying that you disagree with someone, and nothing else,  is not feedback. Use the forums for their intended purpose, or leave. 

2 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Trying to discuss anything with you is like playing Chess with a pigeon - it knocks over the pieces, defecates on the board, and then flies back to its flock to brag about how it won.

But who is the pigeon, and who is the Chessmaster? 

Edited June 29, 2016 by TheBrsrkr
Bloody hell forums stop posting early

[TheBrsrkr]

 

9 hours ago, ArcaneSnowdrop said:

I like most of what you said, but I disagree with removing serration et al. Maybe nerfing them slightly, but removing them and making everything skill based would make people like me, who have only moderate skill at games like this and have never really been able to get past that, very, very frustrated. Having to try to fulfill specific conditions to get good damage when I still can't hit my bullet jumps reliably would make me want to stop playing.

You say skills based like he expects you to enter the Konami Code while ding triple back flips blindfolded while an MLG horn blares  into your ears. It's just going to be more mods like Argon scope and stuff, and all that damage isn't just going to disappear, it's going to be integrated into your weapons after it's been reduced. 

[DatDarkOne]

6 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

This is just one giant red herring because it is not a solution to the problem. It does not solve the issue. You not having a problem with it doesn't mean that there isn't a problem. And no, I didn't know that shooting nullifier bubbles didn't alert them, because when I shoot nullifier bubbles,

I answered a question OP had and then explained my answer further.  If you had read any of my comments you would know this. 

6 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

And no, I didn't know that shooting nullifier bubbles didn't alert them, because when I shoot nullifier bubbles, it's usually close enough to everything else that it doesn't matter because I play Rhino, and Rhino isn't a stealthy guy. People who don't sneak around would also not notice this, because they don't sneak around. 

Which is why I mentioned it.  If OP doesn't know about these methods and some others, then how can he properly adjust his suggestions without more knowledge of something.  Each time I have mentioned something that might have been an oversight, doesn't that count as feedback.

6 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

What you're doing isn't giving feedback, it's wasting our time.

Again, if you read my comments directly to OP, I gave him some feedback and a few questions which he ignored.  I in turn answered questions that were proposed to me directly, and I answered them.  If you and OP don't like the feedback (especially when it was said as such), then the issue is with you and him for requesting feedback when you really don't want it. 

6 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Use the forums for their intended purpose, or leave. 

Refer back to all my other statements.  While doing that, think about the fact that you have no right to tell me or anyone else that.  The forums are public. 

I'm expecting for this post to have it's sentences cherry picked to help misinterpret my meaning and intentions again. 

Spoiler

At this point in the discussion, I'm not considering either of you as chessmasters.

 

[Soketsu]

7 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Because this is a forum, and forums are for discussion, which you have failed on multiple accounts to give. I understand that english isn't your first language, but this is what these forums are for. Deliver, or leave. 

didn't know it was a real discussion...

anyway...

failed ?

I tried to, he asked for feedback

Quote

I would appreciate any feedback so don't hold back.

in the OP

since he ask for ANY feedback

I do like he asked ,I gave him 3 chances, "sorry can't answer to everyone" "you say nothing constructive" yes since the last time I did (more than 20 ago) he already give up, so now I continue since he do the same to the others, now I give him a feedback on small things since he think he know & understand everything on the game (but not)

 he will not make the same mistake twice after that I hope

when i see the comment like those from that DatDarkOne or CM emptiness 10 or 20 page ago I see some problem in the "discussion"

but after if he do not have the same definition of "feedback", it might be a problem

[Fuzzy-Bunny]

2 hours ago, Soketsu said:

didn't know it was a real discussion...

anyway...

failed ?

I tried to, he asked for feedback

in the OP

since he ask for ANY feedback

I do like he asked ,I gave him 3 chances, "sorry can't answer to everyone" "you say nothing constructive" yes since the last time I did (more than 20 ago) he already give up, so now I continue since he do the same to the others, now I give him a feedback on small things since he think he know & understand everything on the game (but not)

I just wasted 10 min of my life trying to find "the questions" in the first 12 pages and yet, I couldn't find anything that wasn't answered in the OP or in my posts afterward. Basically your posts boil down to: "I don't want warframe to be challenging or require any skill since I use it to relax after work and I want to receive all the rewards it offers with no effort on my part:" Well that and misinterpreting (deliberately?) my posts and trying to twist their meaning.

I don't plan on responding to your posts in the future since you're not even interested in discussing.

[Soketsu]

4 minutes ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

I just wasted 10 min of my life trying to find "the questions" in the first 12 pages and yet, I couldn't find anything that wasn't answered in the OP or in my posts afterward. Basically your posts boil down to: "I don't want warframe to be challenging or require any skill since I use it to relax after work and I want to receive all the rewards it offers with no effort on my part:" Well that and misinterpreting (deliberately?) my posts and trying to twist their meaning.

I don't plan on responding to your posts in the future since you're not even interested in discussing.

may be blind too but i don't care anymore

PS: it was page 2 so.... if you didn't find it... at least you may have a made an effort today

Edited June 29, 2016 by Soketsu

[Fuzzy-Bunny]

 

I this "the one"?

On 15. 6. 2016 at 0:31 PM, Soketsu said:

my bad, missread you

BUT it change nothing,

supposing now the foes die in 10 sec... so less foes ? less damage ? more drop chance (fallen enemy/ mission reward) more reward /time spent?

Typical black and white thinking. If foes don't die in one hit, they'll take 10 sec of sustained fire to kill? Really? Anyway, what I meant (and written in the op) was for enemies to die in a "few" hits. Remember that armor thing most grineer wear? Yeah, that! It's supposed to protect them and same goes for corpus shields. Less foes? I don't think that would be necessary, but it would definitely need some testing to fine tune.

On 15. 6. 2016 at 0:31 PM, Soketsu said:

you don't want we spam abilities ? ok we need to decrease the number of enemies, we do it we decrease the exp gained, so we need to put more exp/enemy or decrease required exp

No,no,no. You could still spam abilities, but it would require a specialised build to counter all the downsides and wouldn't be nearly as powerful as a normal "non efficient build", but it would be spammy.

On 15. 6. 2016 at 0:31 PM, Soketsu said:

you want to limit the restores ? have fun with some moon precept, have fun with energy sorties/event/nightmare if you don't rework them too

I did say in the OP that they would be rebalanced to account for the changes.

On 15. 6. 2016 at 0:31 PM, Soketsu said:

what will you do about eximus ?

Gone! Enemy cheese would no longer be required since players couldn't cheese the enemies either (not on this scale).

On 15. 6. 2016 at 0:31 PM, Soketsu said:

what will you do against foes who can drain all your energy in instant ?

I do agree that magnetic proc effect on tenno needs some rebalancing.

On 15. 6. 2016 at 0:31 PM, Soketsu said:

what did you think about the event where we have to fight enemies who don't care about our powers and we still beat them ?

You mean rathum?

On 15. 6. 2016 at 0:31 PM, Soketsu said:

what do you think about rathum ?

It was an annoying cheese fest with very specific builds completely wrecking the executioners. I also didn't like their CC resistance. What is the point of tenno CC if all or most enemies can resist them?

On 15. 6. 2016 at 0:31 PM, Soketsu said:

won't even tell you miss talk about of all the way to have large amount energy/ not spending it

Having a large amount of energy is fine. Having a large amount of energy after my rework would mean that the player chose to hold back from casting to gather a larger reserve and could then unleash consecutive abilities or even ults if necessary. Is that ability spamming? Yes, but it would actually require sacrifices and preparation.

On 15. 6. 2016 at 0:31 PM, Soketsu said:

so you want whole overhaul that will take large amount of time and may be more for what ?

To reign in the ridiculous damage that the tenno deal, which is the main cause for the state of enemies we now have to face. 

To reward player skill rather than mindless ability spam

To make mods change the way you use your weapons rather than just changing their statiscs

To remove cheesy enemies.

To make energy matter again

To make ammo matter again

On 15. 6. 2016 at 0:31 PM, Soketsu said:

what is it matter in pve game ? if you don't like that, you don't play with that and you don't annoy the players who don't want to play like you

Warframe being PvE doesn't mean it doesn't have to be balanced.

On 15. 6. 2016 at 0:31 PM, Soketsu said:

btw like kranker said, the popularity of warframe come from the fact to feeling like a semi-god against army of super armored/shielded foes, and i think is a part true

A semi-god huh? Sure, that's true in the starchart, but why do these Semi-gods die if they step on the wrong switch plate or get hit by high level enemies? Are you implying that defective grineer clones are divine?

On 15. 6. 2016 at 0:31 PM, Soketsu said:

if you don't like it go on other games like tf2 or test destiny ( i don't even know the basic content of the game but it's not like warframe i think) or you can form a squad of nerfed player go on mid level mission non-op stuff with you own special rule and have fun fighting the enemy if you think the average players is overpowered.

I have played Tf2 for years, but I got tired of it. And no, gimping yourself is no way to balance things.

On 15. 6. 2016 at 0:31 PM, Soketsu said:

PS: in the 1 st place why do even continue to play if "we" are too overpowered ?

I mostly just play sorties this days...

[blackheartstar_pc]

2 hours ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

"I don't want warframe to be challenging or require any skill since I use it to relax after work and I want to receive all the rewards it offers with no effort on my part:" Well that and misinterpreting (deliberately?) my posts and trying to twist their meaning.

Who is twisting now? Several people here have pointed out and have given examples of the game in it's current form offering challenge. This game can be as difficult or as easy as you make it. It's 100% your choice. If you can not see that the oversight is on your part.

[Azrael]

1 hour ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

Quote

what will you do about eximus ?

Gone! Enemy cheese would no longer be required since players couldn't cheese the enemies either (not on this scale).

You're talking about reducing enemy variety. It makes perfect sense that there would be stronger versions of regular enemies with more health and armor and special powers. Taking out eximi sounds boring.

 

1 hour ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

Quote

what do you think about rathum ?

It was an annoying cheese fest with very specific builds completely wrecking the executioners. I also didn't like their CC resistance. What is the point of tenno CC if all or most enemies can resist them?

Nonsense. You can solo the level 85 rathuum arena with any moderately tanky frame and a decent weapon. Those arenas removed most of the cheese in the game, and replaced it with strong enemies with unique abilities that take skill to defeat. The fact that you didn't enjoy rathuum (I did, and still play the level 85 arena) despite the limit on energy and CC and powers in general is very telling. You got most of what you want in those arenas, and you called it "an annoying cheese fest."

 

1 hour ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

Warframe being PvE doesn't mean it doesn't have to be balanced.

This is true and I agree with you. I just... wanted to be clear that I can agree with you.  :)

 

1 hour ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

To make energy matter again

I rarely feel that energy doesn't matter, In fact, the only time I feel like energy doesn't matter and I can spam away to my black heart's content is during raids and super boring meta farms that I hate and avoid. This idea that warframe is about mindless ability spamming is mostly hyperbole, unless someone spends all their time doing meta-draco-on-the-boxes runs. Restores are expensive, and I rarely use them. Instead, I have to be careful and make ability casts count, since there's rarely an EV around. Earlier today I was doing solo void survival runs, just to fool around with post-rework mag (needs a little work, but she's fun). Even with the passive from zenurik maxed, I ran out of energy easily (I had 100% efficiency. Not enough room for more!). This kind of hyperbolic argument makes it very hard to agree with you on most things.

 

1 hour ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

You could still spam abilities, but it would require a specialised build to counter all the downsides and wouldn't be nearly as powerful as a normal "non efficient build", but it would be spammy.

This exactly describes the current state of the game. Want to spam without a dedicated EV devoting all her time to feeding you? Go max efficiency and nerf yourself in the process. Devote 2 of your precious mod slots to efficiency, take off blind rage, and make do with no duration to speak of (or spend yet more mods countering the loss).

 

 

I agree that some balancing is needed. In particular, I think the weapons need a balance pass. But this thread seems to mostly be people sniping at each other and making hyperbolic arguments that do not describe the actual game (for example: claiming that old bless trin was "brain-dead" to play. Haw!). The only reason I posted again was to make one last attempt at responding to what I see as false claims regarding the game and gameplay. Quite frankly, I'm tired, and do not want to read any more sniping back and forth. Notice how there's only like 3 or 4 people commenting? And those people are just arguing with each other? There used to be more people here, but they seem to have abandoned the thread...

 

*Edit: actually, after looking through the thread, I see some new people commenting. Perhaps it seemed to me that only few people were still here, because of the back-and-forth arguing? Anyway, it seems that "3 or 4 people" was wrong, so I crossed it out, so to speak. But I still think there's a lot of sniping in here.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Lord_Azrael