Muscular Female Frame Anyone???

[Ibro156]

13 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

"How about a really buff, muscular female character?"

"That's just not realistic."

"That's unrealistic. While Nekros is right there being a cyborg skeleton."

"Ugh, sjw's, amirite?"

 

 

Can you see how, from the outside, when especially when you put it in the context of how this kind of argument repeats itself ad infinitum across multiple games, it might look a bit odd?

 

To be quite clear here: you know that there is not actually a feminist/social justice conspiracy out to ruin gaming, force everyone to play characters whom they don't like, and confiscate anything which smacks the slightest bit of 'sexy' design?

This is a thread in which someone said "How about a really buff, muscular female character?" and we are seven pages of knee-jerking later.

 

Thank you! I freaking love this game, am not out to ruining it. Moment, I mention something about female characters I get bashed on!

21 minutes ago, Eureka.seveN said:

Because it doesn't work nor fit with the lore nor consistency of the game that is why.

Also the chroma thing as really stupid, even if I personally didn't like it it was a dumb thing to complain about.

Look. Personally, I have nothing against you, and I bet your cool person. But if your going to say something liked that you need to back it up

[(XBOX)MK Ultra K11]

9 minutes ago, Ibro156 said:

Thank you! I freaking love this game, am not out to ruining it. Moment, I mention something about female characters I get bashed on!

Look. Personally, I have nothing against you, and I bet your cool person. But if your going to say something liked that you need to back it up

They are right trust me but Ive already explained this in the fat warframes thread...it just doesnt make sense and this is virtually the same concept. The Orokin would never design such a frame because it goes against there design of beauty(also they already have rhino). How we can tell is by comparing the Orokin to other futuristic societies which a majority of them do not see bodybuilder females who look like men as beautiful.  

[(XBOX)MK Ultra K11]

29 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

So. Uh. Just wanted to ask.

 

Why not complain about Nekros, who is obviously inhuman in his physique?

What about Rhino, who is, in Quiette's words "A 400 lb, bodybuilder ninja."?

 

 

 

What I'm getting at here is that folks in the gaming scene react weirdly when you suggest having things like really buff female characters, when those same people quite casually accept all kinds of stuff which is genuinely outlandish, and then when you point this out (as I am doing now) you get people complaining about "social justice warriors ruining everything!"

 

 

Really.

 

 

Really.

 

"How about a really buff, muscular female character?"

"That's just not realistic."

"That's unrealistic. While Nekros is right there being a cyborg skeleton."

"Ugh, sjw's, amirite?"

 

 

Can you see how, from the outside, when especially when you put it in the context of how this kind of argument repeats itself ad infinitum across multiple games, it might look a bit odd?

 

To be quite clear here: you know that there is not actually a feminist/social justice conspiracy out to ruin gaming, force everyone to play characters whom they don't like, and confiscate anything which smacks the slightest bit of 'sexy' design?

This is a thread in which someone said "How about a really buff, muscular female character?" and we are seven pages of knee-jerking later.

 

Becuase nekros could happen to any man if hes starved enough and rhino is a strong man. Nekros is supposed to resemble death his features resemble him being skeletal. Rhino is str-....look do I realy have to explain this again. The orokin would never make a bulky female frame 1. because it goes against their societies norms and 2. Unlike Nekros and Rhino theres no purpose at  all for the features of her to resemble that of a man. It makes no sense. 

[texrei]

1 hour ago, Eureka.seveN said:

But in all seriousness, the concept of a warframe is a fast, mobile and strong entity that is controlled by a human/human-like figure. So it would make sense to make the war suits resemble humans so that it is easier for the tenno to control hence my argument. With this in mind, from a design stand point it would make sense to make the warframes resemble humans due to the nature of their design, since it is essentially the extension of the tenno. At this point you want to make unrealistic bodies come into the scene for the sake of diversity and tokenism without considering the implications that may have on the lore. 

If we are talking about effective design i highly doubt that high heels, dresses, danglers are giving any extra agility or dexterity. But muscles can do a job.

And after Nekros we have night form Equinox with her very weird body, Inaros, Atlas. Maybe Banshee. They all look pretty not human

[Ibro156]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)MK Ultra K11 said:

They are right trust me but Ive already explained this in the fat warframes thread...it just doesnt make sense and this is virtually the same concept. The Orokin would never design such a frame because it goes against there design of beauty(also they already have rhino). How we can tell is by comparing the Orokin to other futuristic societies which a majority of them do not see bodybuilder females who look like men as beautiful.  

To be honest, what you had just said is quite subjective. There are guys who do like bulky women to an extent. Who knows, maybe there was some Orokins who were into that? :P 

[(XBOX)MK Ultra K11]

40 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

So. Uh. Just wanted to ask.

 

Why not complain about Nekros, who is obviously inhuman in his physique?

What about Rhino, who is, in Quiette's words "A 400 lb, bodybuilder ninja."?

 

 

 

What I'm getting at here is that folks in the gaming scene react weirdly when you suggest having things like really buff female characters, when those same people quite casually accept all kinds of stuff which is genuinely outlandish, and then when you point this out (as I am doing now) you get people complaining about "social justice warriors ruining everything!"

 

 

Really.

 

 

Really.

 

"How about a really buff, muscular female character?"

"That's just not realistic."

"That's unrealistic. While Nekros is right there being a cyborg skeleton."

"Ugh, sjw's, amirite?"

 

 

Can you see how, from the outside, when especially when you put it in the context of how this kind of argument repeats itself ad infinitum across multiple games, it might look a bit odd?

 

To be quite clear here: you know that there is not actually a feminist/social justice conspiracy out to ruin gaming, force everyone to play characters whom they don't like, and confiscate anything which smacks the slightest bit of 'sexy' design?

This is a thread in which someone said "How about a really buff, muscular female character?" and we are seven pages of knee-jerking later.

 

Also just becuase quiette said a 400 pounds which makes rhino unrealistic doesnt mean thats true at all. His design is based off of a strong men which arent very rare and certainly are accepted by society. 

[BornWithTeeth]

11 minutes ago, (XB1)MK Ultra K11 said:

Becuase nekros could happen to any man if hes starved enough and rhino is a strong man. Nekros is supposed to resemble death his features resemble him being skeletal. Rhino is str-....look do I realy have to explain this again. The orokin would never make a bulky female frame 1. because it goes against their societies norms and 2. Unlike Nekros and Rhino theres no purpose at  all for the features of her to resemble that of a man. It makes no sense. 

Take a step back from that argument for a moment. Please. Take a mental step back and really look at your own assumptions.

 

1. You don't actually know that. We know precisely bugger all about Orokin society and their gender roles. You have gone directly to assuming that the Orokin wouldn't make a muscular female 'frame because....well, just because, essentially.

 

Please. Elaborate, to great and exacting detail, all that you know about Orokin societal norms regarding male versus female. I'd like to hear it. Make it at least three or four paragraphs.

 

2. We can't have a muscular female warframe because that would make her look like a man, and there's no point for a 'female' Warframe to share a 'male' muscular build. This is quite unlike Nekros, whose purpose requires him to look like a skeleton, and completely unlike Rhino, whose purpose requires him to be huge. You could never, ever build a female Warframe with a role which requires her to be muscular.

 

Is this what you meant to say?

 

 

 

Dude. Your entire position is built out of unexamined assumptions. Your argument boils down to "Because!"

Edited June 21, 2016 by BornWithTeeth

[a-Arcadia]

18 hours ago, Ibro156 said:

So your saying it is possible for it to happen. Warframe is far, far into the future able to make dogs hatch from eggs and cats having scales.

I repeat

1. Kubrows are not dogs they are an evolution plus mammals can lay eggs (platypuses)
2. Iron skin works by secretion of a highly magnetic isolated ferro-fluid that can harden with a specific imput of void energy
3. Cryo sleep? really? you should figure this out yourself
4. Kavats are also evolving, plus mammals like pangolins can have scales, also every animal evolved from fish fauna.
5. Rhino is not that muscular, HE IS HEAVILY ARMORED
6. Warframes are biomechanic golems (like angels in evangelion).

And non of these weird facts, justifies a buffed female frame. Also If you want, Rhino can be female just add a breastplate and paint him pink n blue, he'll look exactly like Zarya.

24 minutes ago, Ibro156 said:

Thank you! I freaking love this game, am not out to ruining it. Moment, I mention something about female characters I get bashed on!

Nah, the moment you mention another game's female "ugly" character and want to have her in warframe without any kind of supporting background or idea, and people start giving you unwanted responses, then you think you are getting bashed.

[VampirePirate]

No X1000

[(XBOX)MK Ultra K11]

10 minutes ago, Ibro156 said:

To be honest, what you had just said is quite subjective. There are guys who do like bulky women to an extent. Who knows, maybe there was some Orokins who were into that? :P 

We have to compare the Orokin to other futuristic societies to find there idea of beauty.(Its the logical thing to do even though we cant be sure really) What you shall find is that in most futuristic societies their idea of beauty is not women that are strong like strongmen.

[(XBOX)MK Ultra K11]

24 minutes ago, Ibro156 said:

To be honest, what you had just said is quite subjective. There are guys who do like bulky women to an extent. Who knows, maybe there was some Orokins who were into that? :P 

Also Lotus/Margulis was a seemingly decent high ranking person in the society until the Orokin murdered her and she doesnt look bulky to me. On top of that Ballas's(the guy who (supposedly made the warframes) love interest was margulis who we can assume looked similiar to Lotus so we can assume he wasnt into unnaturally  strong women but more of the Lotus's body type. 

[(XBOX)MK Ultra K11]

27 minutes ago, texrei said:

If we are talking about effective design i highly doubt that high heels, dresses, danglers are giving any extra agility or dexterity. But muscles can do a job.

And after Nekros we have night form Equinox with her very weird body, Inaros, Atlas. Maybe Banshee. They all look pretty not human

Heels can dig into the ground or in some cases the enemy(ouch). Though much of that stuff doesn't do anything and is aesthetic. But that type of warframe is highly unlikely.

[Xiusa]

I don't understand why you're all so against having a buff female Warframe. It takes literally the same amount of effort to make a buff male Warframe. Women can be strong too I know it's a very difficult concept for some of you to wrap your heads around but strong women exist; don't be afraid of them.

[(XBOX)MK Ultra K11]

30 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Take a step back from that argument for a moment. Please. Take a mental step back and really look at your own assumptions.

 

1. You don't actually know that. We know precisely bugger all about Orokin society and their gender roles. You have gone directly to assuming that the Orokin wouldn't make a muscular female 'frame because....well, just because, essentially.

 

Please. Elaborate, to great and exacting detail, all that you know about Orokin societal norms regarding male versus female. I'd like to hear it. Make it at least three or four paragraphs.

 

2. We can't have a muscular female warframe because that would make her look like a man, and there's no point for a 'female' Warframe to share a 'male' muscular build. This is quite unlike Nekros, whose purpose requires him to look like a skeleton, and completely unlike Rhino, whose purpose requires him to be huge. You could never, ever build a female Warframe with a role which requires her to be muscular.

 

Is this what you meant to say?

 

 

 

Dude. Your entire position is built out of unexamined assumptions. Your argument boils down to "Because!"

Mainly because its long and I don't want to reexplain what I did back in the fat Warframes thread becuase people not seeing this already just gives me a headache(literally....also i have extreme fatigue right now and I dont really want to have to get into all the explaining.) But what it really boils down to we since we cant be sure what the orokins idea of beauty was(well get back to this later becuase we are actually much closer now) we should probably compare he oroking with futuristic societies like them and see what their idea of beauty is(because the original frames were prime and the Orokin had to make everything they made beutiful and by well orokin). Now since we know Ballas (possibly the creator of the warframes) he loved margulis(who possibly looks like but definitely sounds like lotus)(Though personally i think this ballas thing has way too much speculation to it I have a hunch it will still hold truth)his idea of beauty must look like the lotus thus many female warframes kinds resemble the lotus body type....in fact Im pretty sure every female warframe does.

[(XBOX)MK Ultra K11]

12 minutes ago, Xiusa said:

I don't understand why you're all so against having a buff female Warframe. It takes literally the same amount of effort to make a buff male Warframe. Women can be strong too I know it's a very difficult concept for some of you to wrap your heads around but strong women exist; don't be afraid of them.

Yes but but its very rare and it takes a lot more effort for them than it does for men but I did hear of a strongwomen once who natrually without effort could lift a ton but she did not have the bulkyness nor the build of a man. Also *groan(im to lazy to type everything to everyone who asks why just look at what i replied to bornwithteeth with)

[Ibro156]

27 minutes ago, Hayzemet said:

I repeat

1. Kubrows are not dogs they are an evolution plus mammals can lay eggs (platypuses)
2. Iron skin works by secretion of a highly magnetic isolated ferro-fluid that can harden with a specific imput of void energy
3. Cryo sleep? really? you should figure this out yourself
4. Kavats are also evolving, plus mammals like pangolins can have scales, also every animal evolved from fish fauna.
5. Rhino is not that muscular, HE IS HEAVILY ARMORED
6. Warframes are biomechanic golems (like angels in evangelion).

And non of these weird facts, justifies a buffed female frame. Also If you want, Rhino can be female just add a breastplate and paint him pink n blue, he'll look exactly like Zarya.

No you just sound like your in denial. 

Warframe =/= Human

Warframe = Bio Warmachines

36 minutes ago, Hayzemet said:

Nah, the moment you mention another game's female "ugly" character and want to have her in warframe without any kind of supporting background or idea, and people start giving you unwanted responses, then you think you are getting bashed.

Okay, then. Find a line that I say the "warframes are ugly".

[Xiusa]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)MK Ultra K11 said:

Yes but but its very rare and it takes a lot more effort for them than it does for men but I did hear of a strongwomen once who natrually without effort could lift a ton but she did not have the bulkyness nor the build of a man. Also *groan(im to lazy to type everything to everyone who asks why just look at what i replied to bornwithteeth with)

It being rare has nothing to do with anything. Women don't have to put in more effort than a man either that just doesn't make any sense yo

[(XBOX)TheRoflLizard]

Now, lets all agree.

 

If they made a Bulk tank Lady frame that looked Good and played good. No one would argue about It.

[friendofvampires]

so, op is "hey DE, if you make a female tank, maybe make her bulky" and there are 7 full pages of discussion? DE will make what they will and we will play it or not

/thread

[BornWithTeeth]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)MK Ultra K11 said:

Mainly because its long and I don't want to reexplain what I did back in the fat Warframes thread becuase people not seeing this already just gives me a headache(literally....also i have extreme fatigue right now and I dont really want to have to get into all the explaining.) But what it really boils down to we since we cant be sure what the orokins idea of beauty was(well get back to this later becuase we are actually much closer now) we should probably compare he oroking with futuristic societies like them and see what their idea of beauty is(because the original frames were prime and the Orokin had to make everything they made beutiful and by well orokin). Now since we know Ballas (possibly the creator of the warframes) he loved margulis(who possibly looks like but definitely sounds like lotus)(Though personally i think this ballas thing has way too much speculation to it I have a hunch it will still hold truth)his idea of beauty must look like the lotus thus many female warframes kinds resemble the lotus body type....in fact Im pretty sure every female warframe does.

We can't be sure exactly what the Orokin standards for appearance were. This is true.

 

We should compare them to other futuristic societies? Which other futuristic societies? From other works of fiction? Why? No, really, why? Why should we compare the Orokin to other futuristic societies? On what grounds should the societies for comparison be chosen? Is there a common thread? Provide an explanation. Hint: I'm going to ask you to back up every statement which you make. 

 

We know Ballas loved, or claimed to love, Margulis. We have no idea what Margulis actually looked like. It's pure headcanon and speculation that she looked like the Lotus does today. In fact, if you think about it for a moment, that makes no sense. None. Whatsoever. The Lotus had to infiltrate Orokin society and get to the Tenno. She couldn't do that if she looked exactly like the dead woman who created the Dream project. She would have been spotted.

 

Your last point is circular. "We can't have a muscular female 'frame, female 'frames resemble the Lotus, and a muscular 'frame wouldn't resemble the Lotus." Circular arguments are bad because they have no support other than themselves. You cannot construct a building with no foundations.

 

Also, female Warframes resemble the Lotus....including Nova. And Mesa. And Equinox. Warframes with builds which are actually rather distinct. In other words, no.

 

 

I mean, if you don't like the idea of a muscular female 'frame because you just don't like it, that's fine. You are completely, 100% allowed and justified in stating your preference, and your preference needs no support other than "I just like things this way." But....if you put forward weak arguments to defend your position and insist that your statements are true, I'm going to point that out and ask you to back up your statements. 

[BornWithTeeth]

6 minutes ago, Xiusa said:

It being rare has nothing to do with anything. Women don't have to put in more effort than a man either that just doesn't make any sense yo

That bit is actually true, kind of. There are hormonal differences which mean that men find it easier to put on large amounts of muscle.

 

However, those biological facts are not of any special relevance in a video game about biomechanical monster golem cyber-ninjas in the far future powered by hyperspace hell energy.

[arch111]

So still at it in here, eh?

Why are you are still discussing human anatomy and function?  Warframes are VAGUELY human and scary as hell to humans.

Inaros, Hydroid, Mirage, Atlas, Chroma; these are built monsters.

Are you really so set in your ways that you would not accept a large-bodied female warframe, if DE announced it at Tennocon?

Live and let live.

[shadrad]

Wow, suggest a body type well within the normal curve for women and the hilariously self-justified sexism just oozes out. You guys are hilarious. And by 'hilarious' I mean you awaken a great sadness within me.

Anyway, I am dying for more variety in 'female' Warframe body shapes. Equinox was a step in the right direction in variety of looks, but I'd love to see a stockier female frame! My current fan-concept Warframe OC that I've been sketching is female and has curvy proportions. A big, tall amazonian frame would be amazing! A short, stocky, muscular frame would be great! 

In the realm of space-future-cyborg-ninja armor types, if it's physically effective (or even if it isn't), it's on the table. Female athletes-- lifters, wrestlers, sports-players, etc-- are hugely diverse in body type and I don't see why that shouldn't also be reflected in Warframe. I'd also be happy to see a properly-proportioned-strongman-type Warframe, big ol' belly and all (because, let me bio-you-in here, real strongmen are usually bulky and have a big-looking belly because their core muscles are incredibly dense and layered, which adds the bulk, and because they aren't going through a sudden diet-cut (like body-builders do) to remove the fat (aka, eating very lean and starting to starve yourself, which ruins the efficacy of your working muscles) they have a very normal layer of fat over those ridiculous muscles. Similarly, strong and athletic women eat a lot of food to keep their energy up and build muscle-- which also adds a normal layer of fat on top of often bulky, ridicu-strong muscle. It depends on what type of activity you're training for! Lifters add bulk and density, while high-movement, low-impact action requires less density.)

To go even further, it's already very unrealistic and honestly kind of silly to give female Warframes breasts in the first place-- again, props to Equinox for having none at all!-- because breasts are literally nothing but fat and mammary glands, and provide no protective armor qualities at all. Zephyr has her armor plate on top, without any breast-looking-silly-additions, because that's what actual armor looks like on a female person! It's similarly kind of silly to give male Warframes any kind of indication of junk-or-armor-over-junk because jockstraps and other junk 'armor' is a huge hindrance to movement when you do a lot of high-speed running. You're better off wearing a dancer's belt kind of thing to keep everything in line and out of the way! However, there's an aesthetic a la Gundam and Evangelion and other visual inspirations for Excalibur that are there for reasons I understand. 

But that's also kind of silly because Gundams were based on samurai armor, which was built for only a certain kind of movement/combat, and the known identities of the Evangelions are both women! :O Crazy how science fiction works, amirite?

Anyway, point is, there's no actual real justification that makes any goddamn sense to NOT include more diverse 'female' Warframe body types. Not canonical reasons, not 'realistic' reasons, and anything except 'there is a reason that DE's character design team has not done it yet, and that reason is probably based on aesthetics that are influenced by western society's inherent male-gaze-dominated culture-- because no joke, that's 100% a purely cultural thing because it varies within and among global cultures. Many cultures think western concepts of 'sexy' are creepy and infantile, because breasts are there to feed babies. why would you think that's sexy? Wow gross!

As far as the silly arguments, all I'd ask is that the people who are so fervently against the addition of not-skinny-ladyframes really think and ask yourselves why you'd be against it? Is it because it's not 'sexy' to you? Is it because you are very particular about the kind of lady butts you want to stare at while slaughtering your enemies? And do you think these preferences should somehow outweigh the preferences of players, such as myself, who would like to see the addition of something else? Because that's 100% sillytalk. So silly!

So yeah, DE please add in some other silhouette types for lady Warframes!

[a-Arcadia]

2 minutes ago, Ibro156 said:

No you just sound like your in denial. 

Warframe =/= Human

Warframe = Bio Warmachines

Lol, what are you talking about, I never said warframes were human. "Your in denial" (top kek) Denial of what?  I explained everything you wanted you just disregard my comment because you are unable to argue with it, that's fine.

You are acting just like an SJW would, not reading whatever is not convenient for you, avoiding answering with coherent responses, just look at what I wrote and at your reply, they have nothing to do with each other XD

And I never said you said warframes were ugly, what is wrong with you hahaha?

[Xiusa]

1 minute ago, BornWithTeeth said:

That bit is actually true, kind of. There are hormonal differences which mean that men find it easier to put on large amounts of muscle.

 

However, those biological facts are not of any special relevance in a video game about biomechanical monster golem cyber-ninjas in the far future powered by hyperspace hell energy.

That doesn't mean women have to put in more effort just to be strong though and that's the point I'm trying to make, not that at the end of the day the woman will be as strong