Star Chart 3.0 Feedback [Megathread]

[Kaguya]

I love the rework, it is visually appealing and interesting compared to the previous starmap which was pretty bland but got the job done nicely. From a simple perspective this does not get the job done and there are ways to improve it.

- Node icons are too small and sometimes when zoomed in a tiny bit (to the point I see a few planets but not the whole map) I accidentally click on a node. The zoom in distance required to click on nodes should be increased.

- Node icons that are bigger would be nice

- Ability to search for a node by name or mission type would be great

- Grey lines on the moon for nodes are SUPER hard to see 

- Junctions should have simpler tasks because it complicates the new player experience (had someone ask me "where to find eximus")

- Quests like The New Strange should be optional if a player wishes to access the other planets. Not everyone wants Chroma. (also have a problem with 1 quest not registering completion) 

- Second Dream should be the only quest that can lock a planet's access because it is the ONLY quest that has a significant impact on gameplay.

[KinnyTheFox]

The warframe in the background makes it hard to make things out. My frame is pretty much white, and so text and some other things get drowned in its presence. 

[Kethus]

The head movement is fine, but the outstretched hand seems off. It would move if the warframe was using it to manipulate the starchart, but it's not, it's completely static. What is it doing?

When zooming out with the right click we are unfocusing our view, the way the head is facing should probably reset. During the zoom out it's obvious that the warframe's model is moving, would it be possible to disable the physics while viewing the starchart, so dangly bits don't dangle when the warframe is supposed to stand still?

[Bureizumaru]

I'm quite enjoying the new star chart. Would be nice to be able to tell what the mission type is without hovering over the icons but that's just some tiny quality of life things.

I especially like the amazing head tracking that it does http://prntscr.com/bqurmz this proves that warframes aren't alive because damn would that break their necks. Or even better yet I like getting to see the top of my warframes head http://prntscr.com/bquu4z http://prntscr.com/bquup6 it has resulted in many a laugh.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Bureizumaru

[Brasten]

There are defiantly a few issues with the Star Chart 3.0, and they can be broken down into three categories: Cartography, Usability, Mechanical

On the Mechanical end we have problems like missions starting as soon as you click on a node.

• Missions start as soon as you click on the node
  • Should create Squad and wait for Play now.
  • Should also pop-up information about the mission
• Missions with alerts and events default to the event.
  • Should allow selection of different events.
• Nodes can be clicked from small scale (map zoomed way out). Combined with auto start causes issues with scrolling.
• Scrolling on PC is mouse click and drag only.
  • Could use WASD or Arrow keys for optional scrolling.
• The map is conidered a diagram, and prevents looking a player profiles while it is active.

For Usability

• Node icons should be a bit bigger to help with mouse over pop-ups.
• WASD or Arrow key navigation between nodes. We had this in Star Chart 1.5, before Star Chart 2.0. 
• Circle in the lower right should have an icon of Resources and/or Extractor.
  • This function needs to be explained in a tutorial sooner rather then later. To explain to new players how to find out what resources drop on what planet, without having to ask their Region chat.

Then we get to the cartography, the task of making a usable map.

• Names should not overlap lines. (automated mapping software is programmed not to do this, where possible)
• Names should not overlap names. (automated mapping software is programmed not to do this, where possible)
• Lines need to be given a slight contrasting border to make the easier to follow.
• Consider a different font and/or increased font size.
• Name tags need to be less transparent. The opacity is to low and it causes issues on light backgrounds.
  • Alternatively names could be given a contrasting stroke border and no transparency. Example the "To Mars" or "To Venus" line names could use that.

And those are just rather basic cartography concepts. There are other more detailed focused issues to go over as well.

• Radial lines coming from the Sun need to disappear as soon as the Node names and Lines appear.
  • Those lines conflict with the coloration and weight of the Node Lines, and is visually confusing.
• The fog filter over the star background should be removed at full zoom. This will help connecting lines around planets to *pop*.
• Lightning storms near Saturn and Derelicts need to be turned off at full zoom.
  • Constant flashing lights are usually never good from a usability stand, and these are on the bright side.
• The Void needs its brightness and glow turned down when fully zoomed in.
  • It hurts to look at the Mot node.

 

Spoiler

In the long term, DE should really look at hiring an actual cartographer. Good maps are a balance of usability and aesthetics. Over these last two map revisions (2.0, 3.0) usability has taken a back seat to aesthetics and presentation. Usability needs to be the starting point.

=====

On a different but related issue. The tasks being asked of new players at the Junctions are not explained at all.

• Eximus units are not introduced to explained in a tutorial.
• Invasions for Mars are not explained outside of the Codex.

Stuff like that. Many of the tasks do not feel like they are a part of the natural game flow, and further highlights how bad the new player experience is. This includes explanations of iconography. Realistically you should have a tutorial that directs and has new players go through the Codex and for them to understand that it is a clearing house of game play information.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Brasten

[The_Markness]

No complaints about the star chart EXCEPT I would like to be able to pan around using WASD.

Dragging the map totally works, but you always risk clicking and starting a mission node.

That's it from me so far :)

[Steleku]

Generally: Love it. The Origin System feels like a place again instead of being "just a game". A couple of suggestions:

1. The drag scroll speed is a bit too high.
2. The nodes seem sensitive at too low a zoom. What I mean here is that when the planet appears small, I keep feeling I should be able to click to zoom in. Instead I start a mission.
3. The more zoomed out views need to retain the connections between locations. Given the zoom levels, its quite hard to see the overall "shape" of the system.
4. The background sound effects are cool. After 24 hours. I just know I'll want to turn them off at some point tho...
5. Can we have the confirmation back on mission selection when you're the only one in a party (Public or solo both). The number of nodes I've incorrectly clicked on only to have to jump at the cancel button is way too high.
6. Allied to 1. and 5. - The drag-scroll operation needs to have precedence over the click operation, so that if I accidentally try to drag-scroll over a mission node I don't select it instead. The Zoom Our button exhibits this behavior already.

Forgot:

• Right-click to zoom out is great, but right clicks in the chat window shouldn't bubble up into the star chart.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Steleku

[Tekka_Croe]

While the new Solar System map is pretty neat, I'd like it if they had kept the feature of the previous map which gave us a confirmation dialogue after selecting a mission.  As it is, I've accidentally launched a couple missions (and almost accidentally launched several more) just while trying to navigate the map.  (Incidentally, they really ought to set RMB to pan the map, instead of using LMB for both panning and selecting.)

It's also somewhat frustrating if you realize you've forgotten to tweak some part of your loadout and step away from the console- have fun spending an additional and unnecessary 30 seconds navigating back to the mission you wanted to play.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Tekka_Croe

[NightBlitz]

yea, this needs to be added back in,

the rmb is already occupied in the new sc tho, it zooms all the way out

[grim5000]

we really should be able to choose NOT to take the syndicate versions of missions. If you're levelling steel meridian through red veil so you don't have to regain standing with the other 2 on the right, you shouldn't be forced to either avoid the node or take the standing hits.

[LSG501]

First thoughts after spending a day using it - like the market place this feels like it was designed for a mobile phone/tablet interface where we all pinch to zoom and swipe rather than a pc or console. 

Issues/thoughts that I had during usage:

I open the map to a full planet that then needs to be reduced to go elsewhere, can we start a new session on the full solar system?

Those dots I need to click on the planets are small and could be made easier to click when zoomed in...

There's no 'clear' path to take between planets..

Why are planets I can't use full opacity like ones I can, it would help with defining the path we need to take.

Information on what location entails could be better, seems like this took a step backwards. 

I scroll zoom just the smallest amount and I try to click to zoom and the next thing I have is a random event starting countdown when I can't even read what events are on that planet - can we make it so we can't see events until it's a decent size and make it so 'click to zoom' works at larger sizes than just the fully zoomed out size.

Why do we have to work through all the 'requirements' for the junctions....just seems like it could have been 'filled in' based on old gameplay results/map.

Why do syndicate/event missions override normal missions, what happened to the old choice box?

Why does the event auto start, I may not actually want to start it straight away

The need to actually open up the void section junction when I already had access to it...

Why can't I click on the 'nightmare' event, I used to be able to but I can't now... is it because it doesn't have a path there or is now restricted to something else?

That background image is really too prominent compared with the star chart, maybe a silhouette like the spectres of the rail teaser imagery might be a better option?

edit: forgot to say, I really preferred the last map system, it was clear and easy to understand, if you couldn't go to a planet it didn't show up, if you can't open an event it was more transparent etc. 

Edited July 9, 2016 by LSG501

[Littlerift]

The Star Chart is a menu, and now it's a menu that is more art than function. Star Chart 1.0 was clearer and gave you more of the information you needed, and Star Chart 2.0 was a massive improvement over Star Chart 1.0.

 

Stop trying to be so artistic and start designing your UIs with functionality in mind.

[BadxHero]

Hey De, thanks for the rework! It was pretty hefty and my cheapo 200$ laptop almost had a heart attack from having to download 4GB update, but it succeeded! So yeah, thanks for that! Anyway, on to my post! As I initially looked into the update, I was actually pretty interested to see what you guys had in store for us for Specters of the Rail given the fact that the build notes and the prior devstreams actually had some interesting things to talk about. So, I was actually pretty hyped to see what you guys had for us and I was sure that it'd live up to most of my expectations. And, unfortunately, it didn't. Now, let's start with the things I DID like:

Pros:

• Star chart:  It looks absolutely gorgeous! Great job on making it look pretty nice and mostly clutter free. I like how the lines do actually show you where they need to go like you said they would, and that's awesome! The junctions are actually incredibly cool, and I was actually impressed when I finished my first one. Good job, guys!
   
• Cons:
• Map/Nodes: Like everyone else has said, the nodes ARE indeed a bit small. I actually do wish that they nodes, along with the planets were actually BIGGER and they fit on the planet so that you could freely navigate through the nodes without having to squint in order to see what needs to be done. Further, it would actually be pretty cool if the planets actually rotated while you scrolled around the planet and wasn't simply a stationary planet that looked flat and only had nodes on one side of it's planetary body. [S/N: the resources for each planet should actually be displayed on the planet and not hidden by the excavator circle.] Oh, and you should make it so that you can't move around so much while you're looking at a planet. 
• Junctions: The junction system, while interesting, fails miserably in it's purpose. The ENTIRE point of the junction system is to allow players the chance to change the course of the solar system and open pathways to new planets most have probably previously uncovered. Now, while I do understand this has just released and you guys are heading off to tennocon, I think this really could use a lot of work. You should have, from the start, erased EVERYONE'S map progress and set them back to zero so they could actually EXPERIENCE unlocking the planets and moving freely through the star chart. You guys didn't have to reset everyone's status to MR 0 or anything like that, but I would have expected that for the purposes of not invalidating the junctions, you would have made a point to bring everyone back to zero so they could work together and participate with one another as both new players and veterans seeking to go beyond the little planet of earth and to the far fringes of the Origin System.
• Missions/Alerts: Yeah, like someone else has said earlier, the alternate mission select should come back. It's a bit annoying having to look at mission node with an alert on it and knowing you can't do the normal version of the mission until the alert goes away.

Edited July 9, 2016 by BadxHero

[StellaFella]

Starmap: Visuals and sounds are nice! Could you possibly address the following functionality issues/concerns:

- When you hover over a planet the planetary resources no longer pop up, you are forced to zoom in/click on the planet to see if it has the resource(s) you want to use your extractors for. This gets frustrating when you are looking for a specific resource and have to click on multiple places. 

- Regular mission nodes are locked when alerts, invasions, sorties, ect. are active on a node. You no longer have the option to select which "mission" you would like to play during that time like you did previously. Essentially locking a player out from completing their star chart until either the special alert, sortie etc. ends or the player is strong enough and desires to beat the special mission first. This could be extremely difficult/frustrating for players (especially when it comes to sorties) who are not able to beat the special mission(s) but must wait to play the regular mission. 

 

[MichaelSD]

+1, I Agree. We need that button to start mission.

[o-gibre]

8 hours ago, ACGIFT said:

Like... I suppose I'm okay with the fissures, (they seem like an unnecessary gimmick, but I can see what the aim was for them?) but the latter part is actually what I don't get.

Having tried them, I fail to see how it's more "deterministic" to get what you want. It's still a random roll from a table; the only difference is the game informs you what that table is BEFORE you start the mission, rather than you having to look it up on the Wiki.

And perhaps a bit worse, but it DOES seem that the tables were ALTERED. I frequently see the same item listed multiple times on one relic's list, often at the expense of having more variety. I'm not sure if it's CONSISTENT for the exact same relic, but it does feel like I actually have no more control over what I'm getting.

What I DO have different, is that I no longer have the option to try partying to stretch my keys/relics, nor do I have the chance to get, say, 8-12+ rewards from an endless (survival/defense/interception) key.

In other words, I can definitely say that my rate for getting prime stuff has gone DOWN. with these chief problems:

• Missions are longer (I have to deal with a fissure ALONG with winning the actual mission)
• Missions can now be harder to solo (A frame/weapon setup best suited for the frantic-up-close combat of a fissure might not be good at the REST of the mission)
• There is much more limited reward for doing in parties. (while no "reward" for soloing)

So, they didn't strictly make it better for solo players (of which I chiefly am) but rather just removed most of the bonus for playing in a group. I'm not saying that the new system is BAD, just that I fail to see how it's really BETTER, and is merely DIFFERENT. (A missed opportunity, if it were)

I see how if you solo it can be more difficult. The thing is I don't really always want to solo. I rarely do, actually. And about the last part - say you want a forma BP, and it drops for you, but other people's relics dropped some prime BP you really wanted, just not right now. You can get it instead of your forma, and go for the forma later. The main thing is, the more people, the more choice you have, drops are no more absolutely dictated by RNG. You do have some( by some I mean more than zero) say in what you get. It means less tries for the rare stuff, specially if you coordinate with friends. So if you want a specific thing, you have 4 chances per try, instead of one. But I also see how "infinite" missions lose their purpose. I still feel the pros outweight the cons. I guess time will tell. One thing I have no doubt about is that it became much much more noob friendly, And that's something this game has always lacked.

[Duhno]

Visuals:

• Overuse of effects, Void is just terrible
• Go read some basics on fonts
• Colossal waste of space
• Take basic course on graph theory, realize they were studied before any of your (grand)ⁿ parents were born and that various visual representations are a dead horse

Functionality:

• Granted, based on other parts of GUI I didn't expect much but what you've come up with ... shame WF isn't more recognized product or SC3.0 could make it into various software engineering schools as prime example of how not to design graphical user interface.
• There's really no point in going into specifics plus many have been already pointed out. Sure, accuse me of being unconstructive but good grief, if you really don't see complete and utter flop this is when it comes to what UI at its core is, then any number of points written here will not help.

It's a frelling navigation screen. To ease navigation. Not a DX11 post-processing showcase. Coupled with Arsenal it's a screen we probably spend most of our time on. You just made it anti-navigation. Although, on a second thought, since the scope is clearly to slow down progression, spot on!

[Arkvold]

Agreed.  I would like some confirmation before actually starting.

[Yukio_Tomo]

I was playing back when there was no landing craft, with star chart 1

DE, I like this star chart 3.0 :D

Trying to introduce new players to the game I had to look up a wiki page for how to get from one planet to the next - no good. With the new map the junctions make it clear.

Some complaints - It's a bit of a WOW THERE'S SO MUCH ON THIS MAP CAN'T TAKE IT IN at first, but I think we'll get the hang of it. There's so much more immersion with nodes rather than those silly disc thingys around the planets and everything looks super cool. Also really glad the moon got its own spot.
Kind of 'hmmm' about the decision to make veteran players play the junctions but really I guess I would be doing them even if you guys hadn't made me just to see what they were like. It'd be nice if some of the requirements we've obviously met would be already done though. For the venus junction 'equip 4 mods' I just had to take four mods off my Nova Prime and put them back on again. Seemed a bit silly.

A few bugs and whatnot that I'll post in the other thread but on the whole I like Star Chart 3.0 and I know you guys will be smoothing it out with some hotfixes up until The War Within and probably beyond. I think a lot of the current players never saw Star Chart 1 so it's a big of a huge change for them but they'll get used to it I'm sure.

Thanks for all your hard work DE! See you next hotfix! :)

[Malak-al-Maut]

I'm not familiar with starchart 1.0 but here are my impressions about starchart 3.0.

First off, I think this interface is important as we will be spending a fair amount of time interacting with it.  Right now it looks very flat compared to starchart 2.0.  I think it's important in any space game that we have a sense of the vastness of "space" and the starchart is one way to get that.  The planets are completely out of scale.  They don't move, orbit, or rotate.  The icons representing missions are very small and the relay and archwing icons are also very flat.  Showing the lander circling (not orbiting) the planet also looks terrible since it's just a flat non-animated sprite.  The warframe in the background occasionally contorts its neck in unusual ways to look at the cursor.    I would say that starchart 2.0 was a completely functional interface without much style.  Starchart 3.0 seems to be an attempt to get that style back.  It fails.  This looks like some kids diorama of the solar system from grade school.

Edited July 10, 2016 by Malak-al-Maut

[Brasten]

1 hour ago, Malak-al-Maut said:

They don't move, orbit, or rotate.

Shoulda been around for Star Chart 1.0/1.5. Still tops both 2.0 and 3.0 star chart on almost every count.

[African-Sapien616]

I just miss the ability to select mission below alerts, sorties and what not. And also I don't like how i don't have a choice if i accidentally click on a mission press cancel mission or accept before the game finds a squad or starts the mission.

[ACGIFT]

11 hours ago, o-gibre said:

I see how if you solo it can be more difficult. The thing is I don't really always want to solo. I rarely do, actually. And about the last part - say you want a forma BP, and it drops for you, but other people's relics dropped some prime BP you really wanted, just not right now. You can get it instead of your forma, and go for the forma later. The main thing is, the more people, the more choice you have, drops are no more absolutely dictated by RNG. You do have some( by some I mean more than zero) say in what you get. It means less tries for the rare stuff, specially if you coordinate with friends. So if you want a specific thing, you have 4 chances per try, instead of one. But I also see how "infinite" missions lose their purpose. I still feel the pros outweight the cons. I guess time will tell. One thing I have no doubt about is that it became much much more noob friendly, And that's something this game has always lacked.

Um, do you remember how it worked BEFORE Star Chart 3.0? A team of 4 players each with their own key/relic ALSO had a better chance of getting what they wanted... By virtue of, in the end, Everyone would just get ALL FOUR rolls.

Now, one relic for each person is that we STILL get the same four rolls, just that now, everyone only ever gets ONE item from all that, and they merely get to pick which one.

Pick one < "all of the above."

Also, as far as the "Rare stuff" goes, I do think that if I understand the new system correctly, they CUT the odds: roll odds seem to be scaled akin to how it was for mods: That is, between three fixed tiers, you have specific odds of approximately 75.9%, 22.1%, and 2% respectively for "common" "uncommon" and "rare" drops. This particularly bad given that before, the only thing that had that low of a SINGULAR chance to drop as a rare mod was a Forma in a couple of certain missions; everything else was over 4% for the INDIVIDUAL chance...  Which now means that "rare" parts are now harder to get, COMPOUNDED by the loss of keysharing and endless missions.

So before, getting a Nikana Prime Blade was a ~7.5% chance every C rotation on Tower II Survival; that meant that if you had a 4-man party and went to 40 minutes per, you'd average 1.67 total keys per person before you got the part, AND you'd have ~52 OTHER rewards to show for your efforts.

Now, it's 12.5 keys per person spent, (7.5 times as many!) and you'll have ~12 other rewards to show for your efforts.

[CrisFenix]

I dont like this star chart!

Why did you change the main missions? Why did you rip Draco and Triton? This doesn't make any sense!

Before the update Draco was a mess, too much enemies spawning too fast, but now we got nothing!   

Where we will level up? Where we will drop t3 Keys?  

And the zoom its not good for use with gamepads, sometimes fails

 

[KaeseSchnitte]

The new minimap icons for the frames used by your teammates are atrocious. Just use symbols that represent the number of said teammate and show the frame icon instead of the utterly useless player icon.