Really DE? we are talking about how we hate nullifiers and you just... BUFF THEM? REALLY?

[FrostDragoon]

Well, ancients do the same thing, flame eximus have that huge aoe knockdown, and lots of units have smaller aoe knockdowns... I think there's just too much CC vs players if they are going to negate 90% of the sh** we can do to the enemies.

Edited July 10, 2016 by FrostDragoon

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

Just now, FrostDragoon said:

Well, ancients do the same thing, flame eximus have that huge aoe knockdown, and lots of units have smaller aoe knockdowns... I think there's just too much CC vs players if they are going to negate 90% of the S#&$ we can do to the enemies.

im just trying to say they should start with Update 1 and go update by update fixing problems that have been there or poped up since then because of another update... Warframe is extremely unpolished. 

[FrostDragoon]

I don't think that's a practical approach. Better to start with the most game-breaking and imbalancing problems, and work our way down to the smallest ones. This gets the most good done in the shortest time.

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

1 minute ago, FrostDragoon said:

I don't think that's a practical approach. Better to start with the most game-breaking and imbalancing problems, and work our way down to the smallest ones. This gets the most good done in the shortest time.

However, putting bandaids on their "gamebreaking problems" before taking care of the core of the game could lead to more problems than it fixes. I agree, starting with things like Level and Damage scaling and spawn systems is better, but i do think starting with early development and working on polish through it is important.

[Azrael]

30 minutes ago, PureIcarus said:

For every 1 person on the forums complaining about Nullifiers... there are 10 people playing the game and don't care. Thought that would be pretty obvious due to the lack of "dont nerf nullifies" posts.

Wait, did I just read that? Did you really just claim that it's obvious that most players are fine with nullifiers because of the *lack* of threads defending them? I just want to confirm that I read that correctly, because I'm having trouble believing it.   :)

Anyway, I agree that there are many more problems. I just think that the recent buff has seriously damaged certain perfectly legitimate frames and playstyles.

Actually, if I'm being honest, I have an ulterior motive. I want to play mag solo in the void, like I've been doing, and I feel like the nully buff was an attack on a frame and playstyle that I enjoy greatly. I really like post-rework mag, and I hate to see something invalidate that.

I keep planning to make a detailed post about it, but today I was moving furniture till 1:30 am ( we started at 11 pm), and I'm just not up to it right now. Besides, I can't play right now, so I can't take screenshots .

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

2 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

Wait, did I just read that? Did you really just claim that it's obvious that most players are fine with nullifiers because of the *lack* of threads defending them? I just want to confirm that I read that correctly, because I'm having trouble believing it.   :)

Anyway, I agree that there are many more problems. I just think that the recent buff has seriously damaged certain perfectly legitimate frames and playstyles.

Actually, if I'm being honest, I have an ulterior motive. I want to play mag solo in the void, like I've been doing, and I feel like the nully buff was an attack on a frame and playstyle that I enjoy greatly. I really like post-rework mag, and I hate to see something invalidate that.

I keep planning to make a detailed post about it, but today I was moving furniture till 1:30 am ( we started at 11 pm), and I'm just not up to it right now. Besides, I can't play right now, so I can't take screenshots .

Id say you are better off supporting and providing more ideas to this post 

I dont personally support it because of my stance on nullifiers... but its actually a post coming up with alternative ideas and not screaming about how op the nullifier is(possibly the first constructive 'rework nullifiers' thread iv seen). As i said, 1 post with 100,000 supporters and all that jazz.

[Azrael]

19 minutes ago, PureIcarus said:

Id say you are better off supporting and providing more ideas to this post 

I dont personally support it because of my stance on nullifiers... but its actually a post coming up with alternative ideas and not screaming about how op the nullifier is(possibly the first constructive 'rework nullifiers' thread iv seen). As i said, 1 post with 100,000 supporters and all that jazz.

You know what? YOU KNOW WHAT M8?

I.... am going to check this out. Thanks for the link.  :)

[Scarachus]

I think the new nullifier changes are fine, but they should lower their spawn rates so that Warframe's abilities won't become useless. Right now, everytime I go into a mission there are multiple nullifiers in each group of enemies, and I am never able to use my abilities.

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

Just now, Scarachus said:

I think the new nullifier changes are fine, but they should lower their spawn rates so that Warframe's abilities won't become useless. Right now, everytime I go into a mission there are multiple nullifiers in each group of enemies, and I am never able to use my abilities.

Bit late to the party... Nullifier Rates have been nerfed and this thread is pretty much wrapped up... im sure it will be locked tomarrow tbh.

[Scarachus]

Just now, PureIcarus said:

Bit late to the party... Nullifier Rates have been nerfed and this thread is pretty much wrapped up... im sure it will be locked tomarrow tbh.

Alright. That's good. Thanks for telling me <3

[cghawk]

people keep saying it's a challenge, but the problem is it's only a challenge if you don't use a high RoF weapon, use a soma? S#&amp;&#036; not a sweat, dead in seconds, no challenge whatsoever, use a bow? well better have a high RoF secondary or high base stats frame because all of a sudden artificial challenge is there.

[LunarEdge7]

8 minutes ago, cghawk said:

people keep saying it's a challenge, but the problem is it's only a challenge if you don't use a high RoF weapon, use a soma? S#&amp;&#036; not a sweat, dead in seconds, no challenge whatsoever, use a bow? well better have a high RoF secondary or high base stats frame because all of a sudden artificial challenge is there.

We're trying to balance all of them. Or at least, I want to. But it seems we must do fixes on balancing one by one.

[Meonech]

I dont know if its a bug or that there were 6 other nullifier shields stacked on each other but something strange occured to me. So when trying this new fissure mission i did what i usually did when a nullifier comes in.. meaning i rushed into the bubble and started melting its face off with my main weapon. But its as if the shots never really touched it or.. better expaling no bullet came out of my weapon. I had to mellee that fcker because i started panicking but i just want to know if something similar happened to you guys or it was really just a case of multiple bubbles stacking up on each other inside an other bubble.

Which is if you ask me is BS. This is what should be fixed. There should not be a nullifier bubble inside another one.

[Redthirst]

Nullifiers are a great example of how DE balances the game. Instead of fixing broken game design, they just introduce more broken S#&amp;&#036;. But two broken pieces of game design doesn't cancel each other out. We can see it with Nullifiers, where they do counter mindless ability spam. Then they also counter every weapon in the game that cannot quickly destroy the bubble as well as countering frames that rely on buffs. Now they also counter Frost's Globe, which was the main option you had to protect the defense target from the absolutely broken enemy scaling. Eagerly awaiting DE to buff some Warframe to take Frost's place(my bet is on Limbo rework making him OP).

The fact that they want to buff Nullifiers even further just shows that they are unable(or unwilling) to fix the fundamental issue that caused Nullifiers to be added into the game.

 

[Charaiter]

Why do I never see the suggestion for nullifiers to cancel each others bubbles when they get in contact? That would have solved lots of pain. 

[rngd444]

10 hours ago, (PS4)erzengel1985 said:

Lol ur just mad cause you don't know how to play that's not my problem or de's problem if u can only play 1 way learn to adapt it's not hard. 

As I said, you're clearly not capable to comprehend, otherwise you'd know I have no problems at all dealing with them. One can still dislike something even if it's not a so-called challenge for them. The world isn't black and white, you should wake up.

 

8 hours ago, Xzorn said:

Typical Nullifier Retorts:

 

1) They're there to stop mindless 4 spam.

4 spam is a joke. Only people who hung out on the star map would think otherwise.

2) Working as intended they do what they're supposed to do.

I don't see the letters DE in front of anyone's name who says this. There's also more than one reason for an action. To think otherwise is kinda foolish. Even if a Dev said to me personally "This is what they're for" I would look at other repercussion.

_______________________________________________

From my perspective Nullifiers were added in an attempt to kick players out of high level Void missions by creating an unfair situation countering CC meta. I think this belief has recently been reinforced to the fact there is now no longer high level Prime farms.

Of course this CC meta wouldn't exist if enemy damage scaling was reasonable. If they had caped enemy damage and gone with other global or ability additions to create difficulty they could tone down CC and then there would be a reason to have Tanks and Healers in this game.

Instead we have Nullifiers dropping from the sky on our heads. Removing any frame preference in addition to their Rate of Fire problem. I now just run with a high innate eHP frame with high RoF weapons, usually Ignis & Akstilleto. My build doesn't matter, my damage type doesn't matter, my abilities don't matter and my buffs or team synergy don't matter.

Great design.....

Just thank you. I really wonder everytime why anyone would defend their design for a second.

[(PSN)adam4213]

Haven't been able to play WF much due to real life issues but DE seem determined to drive me away from this game. I can't believe they buffed nullifiers. As if they weren't obnoxious enough already. I wonder how many people with bother with Corpus/Void defence missions now that they can destroy Frost's globe just by simply touching it. Especially when the nullifiers spawn at the top floor at the back of the void room then drop down right next to the pod. Now I'll need to carry a fast fire rate weapon or not bother at all.

Not only are the nullifier bubbles huge but they also clip through walls, just one of the many problems that nullifiers have. As far as defence is concerned, you have two options. Make Frost's globe smaller to reduce the risk of it being destroyed by a nullifier but at the cost of being hit by bombards while inside the globe. Or increase the range of the globe to protect against bombards but at the risk of it easily coming into contact with a nullifiers. It's a no-win situation. 

GG DE!

Edited July 10, 2016 by (PS4)adam4213

[Redthirst]

9 hours ago, Xzorn said:

Of course this CC meta wouldn't exist if enemy damage scaling was reasonable. If they had caped enemy damage and gone with other global or ability additions to create difficulty they could tone down CC and then there would be a reason to have Tanks and Healers in this game.

Can't agree more to this. If people want to find one thing as root of all evil, it should be enemy scaling. DE needs to fix it to start fixing other problems, instead they just throw more stuff into the system, hoping that it will somehow work(hint: it won't.)

[Multicom-EN-]

On 8.7.2016 at 5:40 PM, Slaviar said:

No, they don't counter mindless ability spam. They counter all buff-reliant frames and people who just want to have fun

Exactly. I don't know how much it's going to take for DE to do something about it....Remove their shield, give them increased HP + Shields and a Nullifying weapon of sorts maybe? So many good ideas floating about yet they choose to ignore, and BUFF them. 

[TheLexiConArtist]

They remove an Ivara's Dashwires.

If ever there was a proof positive that Nullifiers are the Anti-Fun Police, it's that.

What was a Dashwire harming? Really now?

[-Sanatorium-]

well there goes my 6 forma frost globe build RIP

[(PSN)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt]

There seem to be a lack of individuals who consider everything that a nullifier brings to the table before they post. Some people say they present a challenge. Of course. Some people saying git gud or "Just copter into the bubble and kill the nullifier. Uh Duh. Of course that is what you are suppose to do. What happens when you are playing against Corpus faction high level, nullifiers are being spammed, bursas are in the bubble, ospreys are dropping their little orb that do insane damage at high level. Almost every Corpus enemy is designed to stagger you or knock you over right? Multiple bursas slamming the ground every second you are near it, how do you copter into that bubble and kill the nullifier with a melee weapon with a frame that has 65 armor? Or the Void, multiple bombards, gunners inside the bubble or multiple bubbles. At high level, it isn't smart for a player with low armor or a player who relies or its frame ability to copter into the bubble and kill the nully. Sure you may have a chance, but what happens when you have a few ancient healers sitting behind those nullies and bombards and gunners, boosting every enemies armor that is near it? Challenge? Maybe. Annoying?? Definitely. DE's version of a challenge is SPAM. I did a sortie once against multiple Ancient Eximuses. In that mission we all kept getting knocked over... Over and over and over again. That isn't a challenge, that is just annoying. How could anyone enjoy a mission where you keep getting knocked over every second. Same to be said with Nullifiers. They present some sort of challenge but when you couple them with multiple different enemy types and throw in nullifier spam with that along with that, it doesn't make it challenging, it makes it annoying.

 

For anyone saying they like these challenges that make no sense. Go into the simulacrum, pick any frame with 65 armor with whatever build. Enemy types are 10 nullifiers, 3 Ancient healers, 2 Corrupted heavy bombards, 2 Corrupted Heavy Gunners and any other 3 enemies of your choice. Enemy levels have to be level 135. You can only use melee This is your version of a challenge. Now try it. 

[(PSN)Cynicaid]

This only makes Void content worse for me since I already avoid Corpus missions unless necessity drives me into one. Anti-fun Faction.

[Demon.King]

There is a far simpler solution to the nulifier problem. Implement them like ancients.

- Turn nullifiers into a tank with an energy riot shield on the front (still affected by punch-trough), with a visible aura that makes nearby allies immune to abilities and removes any debuffs on them.

Still a priority target, still denies abilities effects on enemies, still denies cheese, but does not make powers useless and does not cancel abilities that affect the warframe itself, only protects allies. No more problems with high vs low ROF weapons. All warframes are viable, all weapons are viable. Problem solved completely. Is it really that hard?

Edited July 10, 2016 by Demon.King

[(PSN)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt]

59 minutes ago, (PS4)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt said:

There seem to be a lack of individuals who consider everything that a nullifier coupled together with other enemies brings to the table before they post. Some people say they present a challenge. Of course. Some people saying git gud or "Just copter into the bubble and kill the nullifier. Uh Duh. Of course that is what you are suppose to do. What happens when you are playing against Corpus faction high level, nullifiers are being spammed, bursas are in the bubble, ospreys are dropping their little orb that do insane damage at high level. Almost every Corpus enemy is designed to stagger you or knock you over right? Multiple bursas slamming the ground every second you are near it, how do you copter into that bubble and kill the nullifier with a melee weapon with a frame that has 65 armor? Or the Void, multiple bombards, gunners inside the bubble or multiple bubbles. At high level, it isn't smart for a player with low armor or a player who relies or its frame ability to copter into the bubble and kill the nully. Sure you may have a chance, but what happens when you have a few ancient healers sitting behind those nullies and bombards and gunners, boosting every enemies armor that is near it? Challenge? Maybe. Annoying?? Definitely. DE's version of a challenge is SPAM. I did a sortie once against multiple Ancient Eximuses. In that mission we all kept getting knocked over... Over and over and over again. That isn't a challenge, that is just annoying. How could anyone enjoy a mission where you keep getting knocked over every second. Same to be said with Nullifiers. They present some sort of challenge but when you couple them with multiple different enemy types and throw in nullifier spam with that along with that, it doesn't make it challenging, it makes it annoying.

 

For anyone saying they like these challenges that make no sense. Go into the simulacrum, pick any frame with 65 armor with whatever build. Enemy types are 10 nullifiers, 3 Ancient healers, 2 Corrupted heavy bombards, 2 Corrupted Heavy Gunners and any other 3 enemies of your choice. Enemy levels have to be level 135. You can only use melee This is your version of a challenge. Now try it.