Adding Archwing slot limitation without warning was not fair to players.

[(PSN)tpesconi]

I don't agree with that practice either.

DE should put on update notes like: The archwing will cost you plat slots from the following date: (1 week/month after the update). 

Well, at least us, console peasants, we known: build and claim all weapons/archwings (duplicated or not) for free while you can.

[Thaumatos]

31 minutes ago, Arkvold said:

This is precisely why we're bringing it up and making a fuss over it.

So that Warframe doesn't become World of Tanks.  Believe me, I've seen it happen.

In Champions Online, they gutted the crafting system so that they could put devices that were previously available via crafting in the cash shop, and nobody complained publicly.  They made freeform characters subscription-only, limiting free players to Archetype characters with pre-selected powers, and nobody complained publicly.  They hyped vehicles for literal years and when they were finally released, they were cash-shop only, and nobody complained publicly.  Now the game is a typical Perfect World Entertainment game, full of lockboxes that drop constantly instead of real loot, that you need Cash Shop keys in order to open.  Full of pay-to-win BS, where purchasing a Silver Freeform Character Slot (which allows you to make a Freeform character as a non-subscriber) costs more than a month-and-a-half of subscription time.

I do not want to see Warframe go down that road.  It has all-but-killed Champions Online.  So when they start doing things that smack of cash-shop gouging, I raise the alarm.

Off-topic:

Champions Online....isn't that the game they got Bill Roper on from D2 after Hellgate London was a complete failure?

Hellgate London failed so hard people don't even know what it was.  It's actually quite an amazing achievement.  On release it had 6 facings in Gamestop.  That's a LOT of shelf space.  And now people just say, "Hellwhat?"

 

I'm almost positive the proceedural world generation engine they developed was acquired by DE and made into Warframe.  The layout is too similar to be a coincidence 

Edited July 15, 2016 by Thaumatos

[Arkvold]

23 minutes ago, Salenstormwing said:

Because demanding it get rolled back the changes for X-amount of time so folks can play a game mode they weren't playing to begin with, yeah, I don't see it happening.

I've never asked for anything to be rolled back, or for this particular change to be changed back or reverted in any way.

I do however, expect DE to show better respect to its playerbase before making any changes like this in the future.  I expect ample, public, and persistent warning, over official channels - a newspost of some kind, like the ones visible in-game, or an announcement on the forums.  Not a reddit post liable to get lost in the morass of replies, or a throwaway comment in a stream that not everybody has the time or inclination to watch.

It's only fair.

[TheLexiConArtist]

35 minutes ago, Salenstormwing said:

Because demanding it get rolled back the changes for X-amount of time so folks can play a game mode they weren't playing to begin with, yeah, I don't see it happening.

I suggested, not demanded. Semantics aside, the most important part (as I keep saying) is not the impact of costs; it's the acknowledgement of mistake and assurance that it won't happen again. A quiet refund/compensation addresses the former without the latter. Compensation is one thing, losing your audience's confidence is another.

We just don't want this whole thing to be swept under the proverbial rug so it can happen again once people forget about it.

 

It was even mentioned in yesterday's Prime Time, and all Steve had to say was "Surprise!" - Surprise, we're sneaking in extra costs to free parts of the game under the radar and treating that as if it's fine. It is not fine. It's underhanded. Therefore, we as the customer base should not stand for it.

[TasteVengence]

Or they can make slots cost in game credits not a small ammout neather lets say 1 million credits per ONE slot  -to start with- for Weapon,Warframe,Arching,Sentinal,Kavat/Kubrow statis chambers...ect

that way you still would have to play the game enough to get slots or you can put small amounts of money into the game to get slots 

Of course this is not going to happen anytime soon because DE makes a HUGE ammount of money alone just on people buying plat for slots only...

but if it did i feel the game would truely be F2P because nothing would block progression...expecally runing out of slots dose hurt the early players....

the only thing that should stay plat only -IMO- is cosmetics...

[-Sandman]

14 hours ago, EDYinnit said:

 It is not fine. It's underhanded. Therefore, we as the customer base should not stand for it.

Yet some users don't just stand for it, they defend it aggressively. (inb4 the fact that it wasn't mentioned was a bug / were too busy with tennocon / some other lame excuse). The community is not ready to demand transparency and value for money, until then these kinds of moves will continue. After the past few updates myself and many others have lost all trust for the company.

But like I keep saying to all who spend real money on the game, once you do so with the knowledge that it can be taken from you without refund or reinstatement and without notice, then the game becomes a more enjoyable place for you. 

Edited July 16, 2016 by -Sandman

[DOZAH]

how about just not having the archwing missions throb and pulse dramatically from the otherwise static map menu screen, can we agree that's not a good thing?

[Ziegrif]

The only bright side about Archwing was that it didn't require slots.

Now it does.

Archwing can go back and die in the darkest pit from whence it came.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Ziegrif

[TheLexiConArtist]

Bumping for the late crowd. Support the cause.

[dashashou]

some of us saw this coming 

 

 

[Zookes]

1 hour ago, Ravel7 said:

some of us saw this coming 

 

 

I wish I had that kind of foresight.

[Demon.King]

14 hours ago, Thaumatos said:

All arguments aside, here's the bottom line for DE:

ALWAYS announce ANY changes that are related to players paying money for ANYTHING.

 

 

Listen...we're all sympathetic to DE making money.  They need to make money to stay afloat...to keep the game alive.  It's important.  But you absolutely cannot make changes to what is and isn't free without saying something.  Even if it's a cost change to an invisible cosmetic (aka utterly pointless), you should still say something.

This

[TheLexiConArtist]

6 hours ago, Ravel7 said:

some of us saw this coming 

I try not to game the system like that. Granted a warning would have allowed this to happen more, but I'm sure there has to have been a better way to approach this whole thing. Guy here probably made hundreds of effective plat by making excess weapons since over a year ago, where most people didn't even get enough slots for the existing weapons because, like it was said in that thread, if Kubrows can come in with plat-cost stasis slots, Archwing coming without such limitations gave the impression that it would stay that way.

 

Hell, get aggressive and only retain slots for one of each weapon unless Forma/Catalysts were used if you want to recoup things like that, such investments more than outweigh the cost of the extra slots they'd give in return... but we still need our fair chance to address the placement of new limitations.

 

The option of "give everyone slots equal to the  amount of weapons and wings pre-Specter" (including Odo prime) is also a straightforward path that could be taken. Get information of any Archwing plat expenditures from database -> set available slots to minimum <however many> -> re-append number of plat-bought slots.

[UncaIroh]

19 hours ago, Lanieu said:

Yup, lots of sleazy/slimy things about this update.

 

Inventory monetization is a cancer unto Free to Plays.

I disagree... power boost monetization is a cancer for free to plays, which WF never did.

Slots are reasonable. I was actually surprised that archwing DIDN'T require you to buy slots before.

If you guys didn't grind archwing, why would you start now? And I mean this in the sense that most people won't be feeling any different about archwing needing slots because they never bothered to play archwing. Even fair warning wouldn't be a big enough motivator. (I missed out on onorix, but that's fine with me)

Besides, what else are you using plat for? Everything else is still farmable/grindable, with the one exception of inventory slots. Heck even plat is farmable in a sense.

[TheLexiConArtist]

2 minutes ago, TonyWong said:

Slots are reasonable. I was actually surprised that archwing DIDN'T require you to buy slots before.

If you guys didn't grind archwing, why would you start now? And I mean this in the sense that most people won't be feeling any different about archwing needing slots because they never bothered to play archwing. Even fair warning wouldn't be a big enough motivator. (I missed out on onorix, but that's fine with me)

Besides, what else are you using plat for? Everything else is still farmable/grindable, with the one exception of inventory slots. Heck even plat is farmable in a sense.

I did grind Archwing. Just not successfully enough to have all the weapons built. Because there was no indication of the slots becoming limited, I chose to spend most of my time on other things. For instance, something that is known to be limited - Prime gear before it gets vaulted, or unvaultings.

Again, it's not about the cost in itself. I'd be fine to pay for more slots going forward - it's just the underhanded way it was slipped in, preventing me from being able to change my prorities to finishing my existing Archwing gear grind before the slots would have to be paid-for. I could and would have built all existing Archwings and Weapons pre-SotR to claim my free slots, if a clear communication had been in place.

[CrazyCatLad]

28 minutes ago, TonyWong said:

I disagree... power boost monetization is a cancer for free to plays, which WF never did.

Slots are reasonable. I was actually surprised that archwing DIDN'T require you to buy slots before.

If you guys didn't grind archwing, why would you start now? And I mean this in the sense that most people won't be feeling any different about archwing needing slots because they never bothered to play archwing. Even fair warning wouldn't be a big enough motivator. (I missed out on onorix, but that's fine with me)

Besides, what else are you using plat for? Everything else is still farmable/grindable, with the one exception of inventory slots. Heck even plat is farmable in a sense.

While I played AW probably more than the average person, me grinding it or not is irrelevant. 

 

The game mode was neglected for year(s?), barebones, horrendously underpopulated and had pathetic drop rates.  Still is (I guess save for the last one).

[Larsurus]

How about being grateful for all the free slots DE practically gave you? That is if you actually cared enough about Archwing to make the stuff while the slots were still free. If they gave you a heads up then people would abuse the living hell out of it by making the cheapest weapons and then sell them for slots.

[TheLexiConArtist]

6 minutes ago, Larsurus said:

How about being grateful for all the free slots DE practically gave you? That is if you actually cared enough about Archwing to make the stuff while the slots were still free. If they gave you a heads up then people would abuse the living hell out of it by making the cheapest weapons and then sell them for slots.

Warframe slots are suddenly 100plat without warning.

How about being grateful for all the slots DE let you have for 20?

Weapon slots are now one per buy without warning.

How about being grateful for all the free doubles?

 

No, it doesn't work like that.

[Larsurus]

3 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

Warframe slots are suddenly 100plat without warning.

How about being grateful for all the slots DE let you have for 20?

Weapon slots are now one per buy without warning.

How about being grateful for all the free doubles?

 

No, it doesn't work like that.

Well then, you better start farming slots if you think that will happen. 

Archwing slots finally costing plat isn't surprising considering all other items has a cost for slots. But as always, if you leave certain things for too long, people will start taking it for granted, just like the gray lines on the Nova Immortal skin that took 1,5 years to finally fix.

Perhaps this means they will focus more on making AW a fun game mode.

[-Sandman]

The 2 new missions and new gear is nice for existing players but pretty much remains mastery fodder for everyone else. With the current u19 mess they are yet to fix with aw for this update this is quite frankly a slap in the face. If feels like extortion from the few loyal aw players. 

[VDeorsum]

This isn't the first time that the DE don't say nothing, or better, they forgot to write into the patch note about important changes, i'll be glad if they will say it to the community these important things, or better, i'll glad if they will put more attention to write it.

[-Sandman]

1 hour ago, VDeorsum said:

This isn't the first time that the DE don't say nothing, or better, they forgot to write into the patch note about important changes, i'll be glad if they will say it to the community these important things, or better, i'll glad if they will put more attention to write it.

I can't wait for the "it was a bug" or "we forgot cuz we were too busy doing xyz".

[TheLexiConArtist]

12 minutes ago, -Sandman said:

I can't wait for the "it was a bug" or "we forgot cuz we were too busy doing xyz".

Well, this is clearly not a bug. They had to instantiate it to the new market with specific icons deliberately, and being mentioned during Prime Time with just "Surprise~!" and no indication of any mistake or recompense to follow...

[PrivateRiem]

On 2016-07-15 at 0:00 PM, Marine027 said:

For those who not realize, you sitll had that much slots free for the old weaposn that existed, as far i saw it tehy only limited them now for the new weapons since more will come now, also you can sell oyur old ones now like all other weapons, and srsly 12 plat again for 2 slots, sell 3 prime items or mods or whatever.

You sell your extra weapons, then a new Archwing weapons requires two of those you sold.

No thanks.

[Neothel]

6 hours ago, Larsurus said:

Perhaps this means they will focus more on making AW a fun game mode.

Shouldn´t they make Archwing fun before they consider that slots costs platinum? Because I´m not sure people will buy NOW.

And yes, if they leave something as it is for too long without saying that something should not that way, we will take it as it is. With that argument, you could also say Archwing will now take 72 Hrs to build because Warframes also take that long. Or all weapons now take 24 Hrs to build.

It is a bad move. And combined with a release of SotR which was way too early, it´s another point in a list of not so clever things they´ve done. Remember the knee jerk nerfs of Excal & Co. because of that Corpus Interception? Or the change of shared affinity in Interception, which also included Archwing which makes absolute no sense there? Ok, they explained why they have done that change (Draco), but they did not explained why its on Archwing too. So is it a bug or is it Intentional?

DE must not explain everything, but they should some things explain so that we maybe can get a different view of it. Currently its sometimes really hard to understand some changes or why they didn´t say a word. A "Surprise!" makes that even worse. It is not a good thing, if something cost "money" now (even it is not much).

Edited July 16, 2016 by Neothel