Revert the hipfire accuracy nerf on bows please

[Naftal]

This is the old thread where I tried to post again and it was immediately deleted.

So why is this a thing? DE never put it in the patch notes or say anything about it. Is it a bug or intentional? If it's intentional, why nerf bows and ruin their gameplay by forcing them to be played as snipers?

What's the reason to use bows instead of Lanka now?

 

[Melos-mevim]

yes plase, revert this devs

[Prime]

1 minute ago, Melos-mevim said:

yes plase, revert this devs

this should have never happened to snipers in the first place

[Melos-mevim]

Just now, Prime said:

this should have never happened to snipers in the first place

no it should not but whats worse is its impacting other weapons within the sniper ammo pool, so launchers and bows

[helghastgunner]

Has there been any differences since SoTR went live? I haven't played much due to performance issues but before that I haven't noticed any accuracy penalties with the Dread, Rakta, Standard and Mutalist Cernos, Paris Prime

Edited July 29, 2016 by helghastgunner

[Fukushu]

4 hours ago, helghastgunner said:

Has there been any differences since SoTR went live? I haven't played much due to performance issues but before that I haven't noticed any accuracy penalties with the Dread, Rakta, Standard and Mutalist Cernos, Paris Prime

I just took my Paris Prime into the Simalcrum, and there is a slight inaccuracy when hip firing with a bow. It's not a huge difference, but it's definitely not always hitting where the aiming reticle is pointed.

Edit:

Okay, here's what I've seen from my tests in the Simalcrum. All shots are made from 13 meters, five arrows per shot with Split Chamber, no Heavy Calibur, both images taken from aiming to show the arrow grouping better:

Hip fire

Aiming

First thing's first, I have no idea why all the aiming arrows are down and to the left of the reticle. However, you can see the aiming arrows have a near perfect grouping, while the hip fired arrows are much more randomly placed.

However, keep in mind I've always made my shots while aiming when playing with a bow, so I don't know what the grouping for hip firing bows looked like pre-sniper accuracy nerf.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Fukushu
added screenshots

[helghastgunner]

13 hours ago, Fukushu said:

I just took my Paris Prime into the Simalcrum, and there is a slight inaccuracy when hip firing with a bow. It's not a huge difference, but it's definitely not always hitting where the aiming reticle is pointed.

Edit:

Okay, here's what I've seen from my tests in the Simalcrum. All shots are made from 13 meters, five arrows per shot with Split Chamber, no Heavy Calibur, both images taken from aiming to show the arrow grouping better:

Hip fire

 

  Hide contents

 

Aiming

 

  Hide contents

 

First thing's first, I have no idea why all the aiming arrows are down and to the left of the reticle. However, you can see the aiming arrows have a near perfect grouping, while the hip fired arrows are much more randomly placed.

However, keep in mind I've always made my shots while aiming when playing with a bow, so I don't know what the grouping for hip firing bows looked like pre-sniper accuracy nerf.

Okay um,  I need new glasses cause under aiming there's only one arrow, btw how do the arrows respond to no split chamber as well? 

Edited July 30, 2016 by helghastgunner

[Dogefighter]

I never understood hipfire accuracy reduction

You wanna give us a bigger reticle?  Sure, that makes sense, to a degree.  Increase the reticle size, but still have the gun shoot correctly.  Heck, give it an accuracy falloff over range the same way we get damage falloff for certain weapons.  That's alright.

But if I can shove my primary weapon so far into a lancer that my gun could tell me how healthy its colon is, I should hit the lancer when I fire.

Scopes don't magically straighten bullets, nor does...standing really still and focusing with a bow, I guess?

[Naftal]

20 hours ago, helghastgunner said:

Has there been any differences since SoTR went live? I haven't played much due to performance issues but before that I haven't noticed any accuracy penalties with the Dread, Rakta, Standard and Mutalist Cernos, Paris Prime

No, the hipfire accuracy nerf happened in U18 when they changed snipers.

Split Chamber does not affect accuracy in any way. It just makes it easier to see RNG accuracy in action when you fire two projectiles at the same time.

[Fukushu]

3 hours ago, helghastgunner said:

Okay um,  I need new glasses cause under aiming there's only one arrow, btw how do the arrows respond to no split chamber as well? 

No, there are five arrows in that one spot, as can be seen by the ammo counter; the hip fire test left me with 67 arrows in my quiver, and the aiming test left me with 62 arrows. I honestly though there'd be a bit of a spread like the hip fire test, only with a much tighter grouping, but for now I'm assuming bows have a near 100% accuracy when aiming. I'll have to do the test again over a longer distance to make sure.

[helghastgunner]

On 7/30/2016 at 10:26 AM, Naftal said:

No, the hipfire accuracy nerf happened in U18 when they changed snipers.

Split Chamber does not affect accuracy in any way. It just makes it easier to see RNG accuracy in action when you fire two projectiles at the same time.

From then, well it definitely isn't as awful as snipers cause I didn't notice, still from what Fukushu had showed they need to work on fixing that loss 

On 7/30/2016 at 11:20 AM, Fukushu said:

No, there are five arrows in that one spot, as can be seen by the ammo counter; the hip fire test left me with 67 arrows in my quiver, and the aiming test left me with 62 arrows. I honestly though there'd be a bit of a spread like the hip fire test, only with a much tighter grouping, but for now I'm assuming bows have a near 100% accuracy when aiming. I'll have to do the test again over a longer distance to make sure.

Well I guess cause I'm viewing from a phone? Idk but yea I just noticed your arroe count so my bad, thanks again for testing 

[Fukushu]

1 hour ago, helghastgunner said:

Well I guess cause I'm viewing from a phone? Idk but yea I just noticed your arroe count so my bad, thanks again for testing 

Sorry for taking so long to get my second test done, I've been playing a lot of Monster Hunter Generations lately and went out with my friends for some Pokemon Go today.

Anyway, here's what I found this time. All shots were made from 20 meters (I tried 25, but the arrows weren't appearing on the wall for the hip fire test), no Split Chamber, five arrows per test (though the arrows began despawning when I tried getting a closer look, so don't be fooled by those images only having four arrows. Because of this, each test was done multiple times in order to get good enough images.)

Aiming

 

Hip Fire

 

The aiming test had a tiny bit of spread, but was still accurate enough to prove Warframes are amazing archers. Hip firing, on the other hand, had much more spread than the initial test, as well as completely random. One test had the arrows spread out in a group, while another test had the arrows spread across a horizontal line.

 

Edit:

Well, I give up on trying to have multiple spoilers in a post, and the way spoilers are shown in edits now is completely atrocious, so if I need to do any further tests, I hope you don't mind if I have to use more spoilers within spoilers.

Edited August 1, 2016 by Fukushu
I'm tired of editing posts to try keeping spoilers separate when the forums don't let me see a preview of my post in the first place

[helghastgunner]

18 hours ago, Fukushu said:

Sorry for taking so long to get my second test done, I've been playing a lot of Monster Hunter Generations lately and went out with my friends for some Pokemon Go today.

Anyway, here's what I found this time. All shots were made from 20 meters (I tried 25, but the arrows weren't appearing on the wall for the hip fire test), no Split Chamber, five arrows per test (though the arrows began despawning when I tried getting a closer look, so don't be fooled by those images only having four arrows. Because of this, each test was done multiple times in order to get good enough images.)

Aiming

  Hide contents

Hip Fire

  Reveal hidden contents

The aiming test had a tiny bit of spread, but was still accurate enough to prove Warframes are amazing archers. Hip firing, on the other hand, had much more spread than the initial test, as well as completely random. One test had the arrows spread out in a group, while another test had the arrows spread across a horizontal line.

 

Edit:

Well, I give up on trying to have multiple spoilers in a post, and the way spoilers are shown in edits now is completely atrocious, so if I need to do any further tests, I hope you don't mind if I have to use more spoilers within spoilers.

Well thanks anyway and hope De sees this or someone brings it up on thier next devstream

[13QZXXTTX]

Just finished posting on another post about Sniper's hold breath, and went close to rage on ammo drop.

But in the end, I guess my effort was futile, accuracy should be the only thing that is affecting your Bow's hitting bulleye.

Nevertheless, I should carry on, and hope Bow get the deserved attention and fix from DEpendable.

Edited August 2, 2016 by DesFrSpace
correct "DEpendable"

[Naftal]

This still hasn't been fixed or even addressed... Please DE tell us if it's intentional and if so, what's the reason?

[Dogefighter]

43 minutes ago, Naftal said:

This still hasn't been fixed or even addressed... Please DE tell us if it's intentional and if so, what's the reason?

DE pls

[KotoKuraken]

Well I think it may be intentional. A slight  (I said slight) alteration in accuracy is alright when not aiming since naturally people aren't as accurate when hipfiring.

Now if the shots were way off in some 45 degree deviation, THEN that would be uncalled for.

But the results from your test seem logical, because even with perfect robots shooting them, the operator is still controlling it and will have some *slight* inaccuracies if not actively aiming.

[Pythadragon]

On 7/29/2016 at 3:48 PM, Fukushu said:

First thing's first, I have no idea why all the aiming arrows are down and to the left of the reticle.

Arrows in warframe are actually made of two parts. The actual arrowhead and the tail, which are linked by the shaft. The tail has a different velocity value and a different flightpath (no parallax correction) to give the illusion of an arrow 'arcing'.

This causes funky things when shot into walls.

----

On bow inaccuracy, bows are the projectile version of snipers. And the hipfire accuracy is not nearly as terrible as sniper hipfire accuracy.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Pythadragon

[Naftal]

19 hours ago, KotoKuraken said:

Well I think it may be intentional. A slight  (I said slight) alteration in accuracy is alright when not aiming since naturally people aren't as accurate when hipfiring.

Now if the shots were way off in some 45 degree deviation, THEN that would be uncalled for.

But the results from your test seem logical, because even with perfect robots shooting them, the operator is still controlling it and will have some *slight* inaccuracies if not actively aiming.

None of this makes it alright because gameplay > realism. There's zero gameplay reason for this to exist.

[Naftal]

Please devs can you address this issue?

At least tell why it was changed if it even was intentional...

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

Yes, it should be fixed for bows, but it should also be fixed for snipers.  Nerfing a weapon that people already don't use because the game panders to automatic rifles and launchers so much?  DE, please, this is dumber than rocks on both bows AND snipers.