Mirage + Synoid Simulor - No to Split Chamber?

[NativeKiller]

Very simple question, looking for a simple and fast answer.

 

Thanks, in advance! ;)

 

Asking this since everybody is giving me conflicting answers.

[MajesticPinecone]

uh... why would you not use split chamber? 90% chance to double dps i think that says enough about it

[Drathe]

Synoid Simulor has perfect accuracy. Combined with the base mechanics of the gun, this causes 2 orbs to merge instantly whenever you fire if you multishot. Because merging orbs increases the range at which they pull in other orbs, the combination of the 2 orbs can create some very unpredictable behaviour when used with Mirage. In particular, you may see vortexes forming only a few meters away, instead of where you were aiming, or several orbs spinning away to one side. Multishot on a Simulor with Mirage can be useful, since it can give you more vortexes faster, but it is much less predictable, and far harder to place the vortexes where you want them to be.

[TrueHawkEye]

With split chamber the shots tend to not go where you want it to since 2 shots come out at the same time and start merging as soon as possible. You lose a little damage over time but its up to you. Plus it limits the active shots you can have on the field since you shooting 2 each shot, but if you explode them you should have no problem.

[Alcatraz]

As a long time user of Mirage, and very experienced in Synoid Simulor, the answer is use it. I always do use it and I don't agree with anyone else here saying the shots are inaccurate and go wild as they are basically saying. As it is a projectile weapon and all projectiles are awkwardly affected by obstructions they can go where ever sure, but that's it. That's the only reason the shots go crazy as suggested, beyond that it's a very useful mod to have on your simulor. I personally use a crit chance build, I used it before the update removing headshot crits and it worked great then, and it still works the exact same way. I don't use argon scope(waste of mod slot), never did.

 

With Split Chamber on you get that 2x orbs causing you that 2x chances with 25% chance with each of them. They combine often dealing critical hits for me.

[Buff00n]

Mirage or not, Split Chamber on Simulor is a waste of mod space.  The status/damage buff only applies with a direct hit by the orb itself and not the AoE merge damage.  You can see it right there in the UI when you add/remove Spit Chamber; the 'Per Stack' damage does not change.  And with Split Chamber the orbs are already merged, so you don't get any extra merges.  

The only thing it does for you is make a vortex with fewer orbs, which isn't much use if you're going for damage.  You're better off with Shred to get merges faster and so it doesn't bounce off enemies instead of merging.  

This is true regardless of whether you're using Mirage + HoM or not.

21 minutes ago, Alcatraz said:

I personally use a crit chance build, I used it before the update removing headshot crits and it worked great then, and it still works the exact same way.

Yes, a basic crit build on Simulor makes sense if you do the DPS math, even without headshots.

[shut]

Split Chamber DOES increase damage. Let me clarify a few key points of misinformation in this thread.

- Without Split Chamber, the weapon will deal 175 base damage with every orb merge. The arsenal implies that an orb stack will ramp up to 225 base damage with subsequent merges-- however, this is bugged and does not work.

- Split Chamber will increase this to 200 base damage with every orb stack. As with the above, this base damage will NOT ramp up with subsequent merges. At the time of testing, this increase in damage did not show up in the arsenal.

- Split Chamber does NOT "create 2 orbs that merge together immediately"; its interaction with this weapon is fundamentally different than with others. Equipping this mod will simply increase base damage from 175 to 200, and each orb will have a 90% chance of counting as two stacks in a merge (so you'll create a singularity with ~2 orbs, rather than 4. This can increase your damage further with the tick damage that the singularity creates, although the damage is so low that this hardly matters).

 

SOURCE: An hour and a bit of testing out various builds in the Simalcrum on unarmored targets. (Seriously, am I the only one who actually goes out and tests how these things work before spouting about it on the forums?)

DISCLAIMER: My extensive testing session was well over half a year ago, and some things might have changed since then (in which case the wiki will need to be updated). I also didn't test out the weapon with Mirage, so I don't know how it will interact with HoM.

Edited August 5, 2016 by SortaRandom

[NativeKiller]

Thanks for the responses!

 

Let me clarify my question, though.

 

Would "Mirage + Synoid Simulor" be more powerful/effective if "Split Chamber" was replaced by another mod?

 

Math and personal experience would be greatly appreciated!

[Buff00n]

23 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

SOURCE: An hour and a bit of testing out various builds in the Simalcrum on unarmored targets. (Seriously, am I the only one who actually goes out and tests how these things work before spouting about it on the forums?)

Yeah, before posting I did some ad-hoc testing in the simulacrum with my usual build with and without SC.  I didn't notice a difference but I wasn't particularly rigorous.

So I went back with slightly more science.  This is unmodded, two orbs merging, against lvl 20 chargers.  (I'm using Mirage but didn't turn on HoM)

Spoiler

The damage is a mix of 175 and 200.  I wasn't able to discern a pattern.

Here is the same test, with no mods except Split Chamber:

Spoiler

It's still a mix of 175 and 200, although it seems to be harder to catch both in the same screenshot.  In both cases crits are 2x minus rounding errors, so either 349 or 399.

So, it still looks to me like there's no difference.  Even if SC gives some noticeable increase to the chances for 200 over 175, it's a far cry from the +90% it gives to normal rifle damage.

I have videos of this if necessary, but that's a pain.

[-MortisThorne-]

12 minutes ago, NativeKiller said:

Thanks for the responses!

 

Let me clarify my question, though.

 

Would "Mirage + Synoid Simulor" be more powerful/effective if "Split Chamber" was replaced by another mod?

 

Math and personal experience would be greatly appreciated!

From my experience, I don't think it could be. IIRC, my S.S. build's main mods was Serration, Heavy Cal, and Split Chamber. The rest varying on my mood or enemy faction. Basically, With Mirage+S.S. I dont believe there's a mod you can trade out Split Chamber for that will increase it's damage output. In fact, that loadout with Split Chamber will just completely wreck. from my experience, at least. So its basically what MajesticPinecone said. Why ditch that 90% chance of double damage? :P

[shut]

1 hour ago, Buff00n said:

Yeah, before posting I did some ad-hoc testing in the simulacrum with my usual build with and without SC.  I didn't notice a difference but I wasn't particularly rigorous.

So I went back with slightly more science.  This is unmodded, two orbs merging, against lvl 20 chargers.  (I'm using Mirage but didn't turn on HoM)

  Hide contents

The damage is a mix of 175 and 200.  I wasn't able to discern a pattern.

Here is the same test, with no mods except Split Chamber:

  Hide contents

It's still a mix of 175 and 200, although it seems to be harder to catch both in the same screenshot.  In both cases crits are 2x minus rounding errors, so either 349 or 399.

So, it still looks to me like there's no difference.  Even if SC gives some noticeable increase to the chances for 200 over 175, it's a far cry from the +90% it gives to normal rifle damage.

I have videos of this if necessary, but that's a pain.

Thanks for testing it out!

I might check this out a bit more rigorously if I have time in the next couple days, and maybe edit the wiki if no one else does.

Edited August 5, 2016 by SortaRandom

[ThunderZsolt]

Lots of interesting stuff here to read

1 hour ago, NativeKiller said:

Would "Mirage + Synoid Simulor" be more powerful/effective if "Split Chamber" was replaced by another mod?

i'm not sure how it works after reading all the posts (gotta go to the simalcrum myself), but i'll do the math for you:

if it shoots a completely new orb with 90% chance:

as multishot multiplies with serration and elemental mods (and even crit mods) there's no contender which can achiveve such damage increase in one mod slot (not even heavy caliber if you already added serration)

if it only stacks the "merging damage" 2x with 90% chance:

well, 200 from 175 is only ~14% increase, which is most of the time surpassed by other mods (read: you have build ineffectively on purpose to get such a low value), especially that the s.s. has a decent crit chance.

[NativeKiller]

Ok, thanks guys!

 

I guess I will probably be keeping Split Chamber on my Synoid Simulor. :)

To be honest, I still don't know if that would be the optimal thing to do but it is working well enough at the moment anyways. (LOL)

Edited August 5, 2016 by NativeKiller