Covert Lethality change.

[Sovyul]

1 minute ago, SicSlaver said:

Then you should follow Dousiq's advice.

:^)

[Dousiq]

Just now, Sovyul said:

:^)

;^)

[Praxxor]

2 minutes ago, SicSlaver said:

Ah, I forget that not everyone has Primed Fury, yet. Sorry, for my clumsiness.

Berserker is still stronger and the rest of the points are there for you, you are pretty good at ignoring though.

[LABAL]

3 minutes ago, SicSlaver said:

Huh? I forgot what I used, but it wasn't Ivara. The randoms I joined used them, but I just ran away from them.

Do you realise that the mission required you to use at least one personal life support module as the life support towers were just enough to fail the mission one to five seconds short of victory?

Because that's exactly what happened when I tried non-violent approach. And no, there were no personal modules in containers for some reason.

Edited August 5, 2016 by LABAL

[SicSlaver]

Just now, Praxxor said:

Berserker is still stronger and the rest of the points are there for you, you are pretty good at ignoring though.

I just don't agree with some of the points. I've ditched Berserker as it doesn't increase Finisher animation speed and requires several hits to build up momentum.

[LABAL]

That's a good idea too! How didn't I think of that? I shall ditch you now.

[Serafim_94]

18 minutes ago, SicSlaver said:

It's like the initial change on this mod where people were unhappy about it and forget that the mod still gave it a significant 100 base damage increase. Would it really be completely useless if it did something else other than instant kill? Even just modest increased damage on finishers? I think you guys are exaggerating.

You know, the simple fact that you believe 100 being considerable damage means you should have no word in balancing for the next 500 hours.

[Praxxor]

2 minutes ago, SicSlaver said:

I just don't agree with some of the points. I've ditched Berserker as it doesn't increase Finisher animation speed and requires several hits to build up momentum.

Well the point is that you have to bring something equally interesting to the table, increased crit chance? damage? something? the invisibility doesn't sound interesting at all, especially when everyone who is interested in it has naramon

[SicSlaver]

4 minutes ago, Serafim_94 said:

You know, the simple fact that you believe 100 being considerable damage means you should have no word in balancing for the next 500 hours.

It's base damage.... Most heavy weapons only has 30 more. It does take up a mod slot, though, but it comes with a special effect.

[Xekrin]

1 hour ago, tifanator said:

I think the fact that you can only use it with a handful of abilities/frames and on weapons that would otherwise be pretty bad make it balanced enough.

I'd give up CL's cheese in a heartbeat if they made daggers not crap.

43 minutes ago, TheAn0n said:

Oh my god. CL is perfect as it is. Literally its ONE advantage is insta killing cheap trash mobs that one shot you

Sounds like a band-aid to me.

1 hour ago, ashrah said:

u have options how to play.. ...if u wish challenge remove all mods and play sortie solo

1 hour ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

you have the option of not using it at all

See I really despise answers like these.  If you want a challenge, handicap yourself?  No, the challenge I prefer is using every possible opportunity and advantage I can, utilizing as much power as I can muster and still, still the game is fun and interesting.

Switching between god mode and your version of "challenging" because I force myself to go as weak as possible isn't really a challenge for a lot of people.  I could just as easily play Super Mario Bros while blindfolded.  That would be challenging, no?

Gimping oneself as a solution to challenge yourself is still no challenge.  Tools are provided for use, not to look and say "Golly, I could roflstomp this game if I used that, but I won't because I want a challenge".  No a challenge is taking those tools and beating the game on its highest and best level.

Yeah, I don't use Tonkor or CL for 99% of my missions because I actually do want a challenge, but it is so sad when I see those who do use them because according to comments like this, they clearly don't want a challenge, which is why they use unchallenging OP godmode mechanics.

DE made these mechanics and ridiculous weapons, and that's about the only realistic response to why use them "they're there, why not".  But those who actually want to see a change and are looking for and suggesting solutions are constantly shot down by "want a challenge, cut off your own foot and run a mile in a minute!".

Yeah, it bothers me.

Anyway I'm all for covert lethality having more interesting mechanics, and I'd love to see daggers actually useful and interesting without resorting to cheese tactics.  Also dual daggers, since the topic is pretty open.

 

[SicSlaver]

7 minutes ago, Praxxor said:

Well the point is that you have to bring something equally interesting to the table, increased crit chance? damage? something? the invisibility doesn't sound interesting at all, especially when everyone who is interested in it has naramon

I did ask for other suggestions and made some other more attractive suggestions as well (as in just damage increase as people aren't actually interested in something interesting but just more artificial power), though. I don't rely on Focus, so I thought invisibilty would be fun, but people are intent on just having instant kill. I haven't used Covert Lethality in a while. I'll give it a try again for a few days and see if my opinion changes. Probably going to give Valkyr a run again as well. Haven't used her either for a long time even after the Berserk nerf when I found out that it's only 15 energy drain at max. Is 15 energy drain at max even significant?

Edited August 5, 2016 by SicSlaver

[Sovyul]

3 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

See I really despise answers like these.  If you want a challenge, handicap yourself?  No, the challenge I prefer is using every possible opportunity and advantage I can, utilizing as much power as I can muster and still, still the game is fun and interesting.

Well I very much agree that a balanced game would be much better, but obviously we can't achieve that. And in that sense, if 10 people out of a 1000 ask for a nerf, will ruin the game for the rest 990. So let that sink in already.

[Absolonium]

I logged in just to comment for this.

Bruh.. Have you tried using daggers without CL?!?!? Might as well be poking them with a flaccid stick. Besides not all frames CAN use it effectively, Inaros/Ivara/Excalibur/Loki and Ash (non-survival/defense/interception) come to mind Not to mention daggers have the weakest finisher damage multiplier. CL actually made using daggers VIABLE. Well as far as daggers are concerned.

[shyguyk]

5 minutes ago, Sovyul said:

Well I very much agree that a balanced game would be much better, but obviously we can't achieve that. And in that sense, if 10 people out of a 1000 ask for a nerf, will ruin the game for the rest 990. So let that sink in already.

that being said, if 990 only know one way to play, such that if its changed the whole game is "ruined" they're playing the wrong game.

Why people are supporting a band-aid mod is beyond me. DE could just make it where being affected by powers/alarmed = no instakill.

or ya know. give the daggers ridiculous finisher damage they should have and forget the instakill properties

Edited August 5, 2016 by shyguyk

[(PSN)abbacephas]

9 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

See I really despise answers like these.  If you want a challenge, handicap yourself?  

-snip-

A text without a context is a pretext for a proof text.

[Sovyul]

5 minutes ago, shyguyk said:

that being said, if 990 only know one way to play, such that if its changed the whole game is "ruined" they're playing the wrong game.

The point I was trying to make is that you have to option to play your way while still having access to demigod powers on demand. If they nerf, we can't play like demigods, and we will be forced to play by your style. Unless you're trying to tell me what do I have to like and not to like, but I really don't advise that.

Edited August 5, 2016 by Sovyul

[shyguyk]

Just now, Sovyul said:

The point I was trying to make is that you have to option to play your way while still having access to demigod powers. If they nerf, we can't play like demigods, and we will be forced to play by your style.

This was the argument of many a tonkor user, doesnt justify something being blatantly OP

daggers are long overdue for a buff so they can be viable on their own and not with a cheesy mod/frame setup.

[Bizzaro21]

1 hour ago, SicSlaver said:

I'm sorry, but I can't agree with that. It really and literally kills some of the challenge events that DE rolls out at times.

challenge? 50000000 health on an enemy that can one shot u is challenge? nah, i`ll pass

[armedpoop]

13 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

See I really despise answers like these.  If you want a challenge, handicap yourself?  No, the challenge I prefer is using every possible opportunity and advantage I can, utilizing as much power as I can muster and still, still the game is fun and interesting.

Switching between god mode and your version of "challenging" because I force myself to go as weak as possible isn't really a challenge for a lot of people.  I could just as easily play Super Mario Bros while blindfolded.  That would be challenging, no?

Gimping oneself as a solution to challenge yourself is still no challenge.  Tools are provided for use, not to look and say "Golly, I could roflstomp this game if I used that, but I won't because I want a challenge".  No a challenge is taking those tools and beating the game on its highest and best level.

Yeah, I don't use Tonkor or CL for 99% of my missions because I actually do want a challenge, but it is so sad when I see those who do use them because according to comments like this, they clearly don't want a challenge, which is why they use unchallenging OP godmode mechanics.

DE made these mechanics and ridiculous weapons, and that's about the only realistic response to why use them "they're there, why not".  But those who actually want to see a change and are looking for and suggesting solutions are constantly shot down by "want a challenge, cut off your own foot and run a mile in a minute!".

Yeah, it bothers me.

Anyway I'm all for covert lethality having more interesting mechanics, and I'd love to see daggers actually useful and interesting without resorting to cheese tactics.  Also dual daggers, since the topic is pretty open.

 

So let me get this straight, you dont want to manually gimp yourself if you dont have to, you want DE to gimp you (and the rest of the playerbase in the process) just because you dont want to "challenge yourself"? 

How does that make any sense at all? Youd rather have everyone suffer cause you dont think you should have to gimp yourself? How is that fair to everyone else? At least the solution of not using it yourself only negatively (or positively for you) affects yourself. 

[SicSlaver]

3 minutes ago, Bizzaro21 said:

challenge? 50000000 health on an enemy that can one shot u is challenge? nah, i`ll pass

Right, the challenge for that Gift of the Lotus was to avoid the enemies.... It was only 5 minutes.

[armedpoop]

4 minutes ago, shyguyk said:

This was the argument of many a tonkor user, doesnt justify something being blatantly OP

daggers are long overdue for a buff so they can be viable on their own and not with a cheesy mod/frame setup.

I could understand the use of the same argument here because we are talking about a single mod that makes an entire category of weapons viable. Literally with this mod nobody would use daggers. How bout we get that dagger buff before we call for nerfs to the only thing daggers have going right now, huh?

[(PSN)abbacephas]

10 minutes ago, shyguyk said:

that being said, if 990 only know one way to play, such that if its changed the whole game is "ruined" they're playing the wrong game.

Why people are supporting a band-aid mod is beyond me. DE could just make it where being affected by powers/alarmed = no instakill.

or ya know. give the daggers ridiculous finisher damage they should have and forget the instakill properties

There's a mod for that.

[Deatherage_]

if it is not synoid simulor it is something else isn't it?

 

covert lethality, wow it kills one enemy at a time with finishers

that is so OP it can totally save me from that level 100 bombard on the other side of the room who is hidden from my line of sight when i started that finisher on a gunner

 

no covert lethality is fine as it currently, it gives daggers some late game useage in exchange of you being defenseless during the attack and those few seconds can get you killed if enemies are high enough which actually makes it balanced with the warframe enemy scaling being as bad as that is

 

before we make real changes to covert lethality we should fix the system of enemy scaling so we are not required to rely on very specific methods (syndicate shotguns, CL daggers, stealth, Naramons, Ivara with CL dagger to name a few) to actually kill uber high leveled enemies because that mod is something that is reliable on frames like Inaros Ivara Equinox Excalibro and is able to give them breathing room, not to mention gives Inaros some really good sustain

 

Covert lethality has a spot in the current meta and if it is in needing of some tweaks we should first get adjustments to enemy scalings and damage values before nerfing what we have currently because seriously people would use CL less if it didn't take such absurd ways to kill those level 100 bombards effciently i could put my money on that. I would love to run around in most missions with my Lesion but if i do sorties i have to put it away because status weapons just don't stack well enough up for it and i go broken war naramons at that point

in hindsight with out CL, a dagger is about as useful as a machete in warframe

 

OP if you want to give yourself a challenge, run sorties with an unranked MK-1 Strun, i am sure you will find that challenging enough

you have been really combative and aggressive towards those who don't align with your opinion so while looking for the "challenge" you crave maybe you should also chill out

[ZetraThorn]

Well. Unless daggers are getting buffed. I do not see the need to nerf/change/adjust Covert lethality. Without this mod daggers wont be used by anyone again. Seriosly they have trash stats in every aspect.

[armedpoop]

1 minute ago, SicSlaver said:

Right, the challenge for that Gift of the Lotus was to avoid the enemies.... It was only 5 minutes.

Im sorry, but you really have no idea what you are talking about. 

The challenge of that alert was surviving. The enemies did literally 0 damage. It was up to you to figure how to make life support stretch thru the time limit. They gave you one spawn wave of enemies and you had to figure out how to squeeze mini LS packs out of one wave of spawns. People like you probably wouldve never made it through the original 10mins that it was.