BLADESTORM: Does it really NEED to Change?

[_Iye]

8 hours ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

Why can't we keep nice things ? I swear DE spends more time redesigning things that mostly worked out fine in the first place than releasing meaningful new content. There's pretty much nothing to do in game for veterans, yet it's crucial to make the star chart and the market more pretty , to turn the much appreciated void into booring fissure gameplay, to change the archwing camera, to rebalance popular frames usually making them less appealing in the process..

Meanwhile, we still don't have sortie tokens, any reasons to do sorties once you have the few guns and nezha, 98% of the starchart is still useless with no great rewards and terrible XP gain... Focus is still mostly broken except for two or three must have passives, there's litterally so many huge things that are borderline broken, yet the top priority is to rework one of the most popular frame to make him less useful and "OP", when pretty much all used frames have OP broken builds anyway.

There's 30+ frames in this game. Of all these frames, ASH has become the most popular one globally. People love using him, he's very useful in numerous situations and many people , myself included, might quit Warframe if he gets destroyed. He's the truest "ninja frame" in the game after all.

In the meanwhile, there's tons of frames that nobody plays anymore. Hydroid, Oberon, Zephyr, Limbo, the list goes on... Why not fix those instead of screwing the frames that actually work and that people enjoy using ?

But i hear it's about balance... Please, balance in a game with Tonkor, Sonicor, Synoid Simulor and Mirage, a game where Nova can prime the whole map and make them blow up, when excal can blind the whole map and turret them with exalted blade, where frost can freeze and debuff armor from everyone, where ember bascially has an active bladestorm that doesn't even have to be aimed and can kill the whole map with zero effort... Yet Ash gets the bad press because he's popular.

Man your words....direct slap on some faces as you have awesomely represented the overall scenario of whats going on and whats actually needed to be done. I wish Rebecca read your comment and conveys some sense to the Devs. Thanks

[DEATHLOK]

And it explains why you don't allow pro gamers to design your game—unless you actually want something that appeals to less than 1% of the market.

[WinterishRope]

18 hours ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

Why can't we keep nice things ? I swear DE spends more time redesigning things that mostly worked out fine in the first place than releasing meaningful new content. There's pretty much nothing to do in game for veterans, yet it's crucial to make the star chart and the market more pretty , to turn the much appreciated void into booring fissure gameplay, to change the archwing camera, to rebalance popular frames usually making them less appealing in the process..

Meanwhile, we still don't have sortie tokens, any reasons to do sorties once you have the few guns and nezha, 98% of the starchart is still useless with no great rewards and terrible XP gain... Focus is still mostly broken except for two or three must have passives, there's litterally so many huge things that are borderline broken, yet the top priority is to rework one of the most popular frame to make him less useful and "OP", when pretty much all used frames have OP broken builds anyway.

There's 30+ frames in this game. Of all these frames, ASH has become the most popular one globally. People love using him, he's very useful in numerous situations and many people , myself included, might quit Warframe if he gets destroyed. He's the truest "ninja frame" in the game after all.

In the meanwhile, there's tons of frames that nobody plays anymore. Hydroid, Oberon, Zephyr, Limbo, the list goes on... Why not fix those instead of screwing the frames that actually work and that people enjoy using ?

But i hear it's about balance... Please, balance in a game with Tonkor, Sonicor, Synoid Simulor and Mirage, a game where Nova can prime the whole map and make them blow up, when excal can blind the whole map and turret them with exalted blade, where frost can freeze and debuff armor from everyone, where ember bascially has an active bladestorm that doesn't even have to be aimed and can kill the whole map with zero effort... Yet Ash gets the bad press because he's popular.

While i think bladestorm is broken I agree completely. They should work on enhancing everything you mentioned instead of reworking old systems and frames that worked.

[Eldritchsqueaker]

2 minutes ago, WinterishRope said:

While i think bladestorm is broken I agree completely. They should work on enhancing everything you mentioned instead of reworking old systems and frames that worked.

I don't think it'd be too hard to do some of both- as it is Bladestorm doesn't mesh well with the current meta (IE it doesn't work.) At the same time there are plenty of frames I'd like to see some attention given to, just so long as it doesn't end up like Nekros where an already weak frame is further nerfed.

[GrimAtrament]

i never use corrosive projection (crutch projection) and never needed it (in fact i think it should go away along with ashes current blad storm but im the minority there apparently) also ash bladestorm Needs to change 

Edited August 13, 2016 by hazerddex

[Shad0wFerret]

On 8/12/2016 at 6:39 PM, (XB1)Stage DRGR said:

What I got from this is teleport with clones.

Well, not re- Ummm... Yeah, it kinda is... with a mini blade storm at the end. Instead of a Normal BS you could do several smaller ones essentially. Honestly one of the reasons I don't play him normally is as much as I like seeing Blade Storm in action from time to time, I end up getting bored with it pretty quickly. That's why I think it would be cool to be able to have it somewhat interactive by making it more... controlled? But that's just my thoughts on it.

[Racter]

I feel like the people complaining about it making enemies invulnerable don't remember the ability outright breaking 50+% of the time you used it. That's why it was added in the first place IIRC. I honestly don't think it needs changed, and I really don't understand this forum's issue with DPS frames actually dealing damage. I don't see people constantly crying about CC frames CC'ing, though they have heavily crapped on our only real healer.

 

In a few weeks Ash will be another Mag/Saryn/pre-buff Mesa. Sure, the abilities are usable. They might even have dependence synergy. But just like those three, basically no one will play them, and the forum will move on to Ember or Banshee or Frost until everything above Limbo tier is destroyed and the game is basically just another generic TPS.

[DSpite]

On 08/08/2016 at 11:30 AM, BlackCoMerc said:

Ouch, that's a fair point. Didnt think about actually prolonging the lives of enemies targeted, or selected. That's an issue that needs to go. Seconds can make a difference at higher levels...

They are not made invulnerable.

[IRVoidGuru]

On 8/7/2016 at 9:10 PM, BlackCoMerc said:

Let us calmly, in the manner of mature adults, assess the situation.

Arguments FOR Changing Bladestorm:

It isn't interactive

Its a Slideshow (hehe, I said this myself not long ago)

Its more prone to Spam than the dollar menu in a Hawaiian sandwich shop. 

WAAAA! Ash-Hole stole all my killz! Mommy! I'm taking my Energy Vampire and going Home!

 

Arguments AGAINST Changing Bladestorm:

Its FUN! (Isnt this still important)

Its about the only efficient room nuker we've got left (seriously, this is more true every day)

It fits Ash's role as an Assassin in the fast paced, horde mode world of Warframe (Dishonored this aint, and thats ok)

Its FUN!

 

A couple of considerations:

I would speculate that Waframe has a considerable number of rather casual fans. People who play the game to veg out, have fun and (in the immortal worlds of my girl) "Make things go splodey." I would further wager that the bulk of Warframe's fan, while probably not quite this casual, are somewhat closer to this demographic than to the serious, hard-core, "I came from ARMA III and I want THAT, but with Parkour and Ninjas" crowd. I would lastly wager that the bulk of those fans who also happen to be Ash users...very vehemently do not want his Ultimate changed. 

But it kills everything in a blink without much interaction! 

Yeah. So does Avalanche. Or Maim when its not busy stunning more people than Buzzfeed talking about dresses and jaws. Where the Star Map is concerned, a Vaykor or Sancti weapon exploding kills everything in the room. How interactive are they? About as interactive as World on Fire. Or old Saryn. You know, the one people actually USED?

As it exists right now, Warframe features a number of Warframes capable of performing a number of roles. Support. Defense. Tank. Nuker. Warframe features these things because at heart, its an Action RPG. With guns and a third person view, sure. But that doesnt change the fact. And ARPG games are notorious for having (and needing) Nuke abilities. It goes with the territory.

And until and unless Warframe undergoes the sort of changes necessary to convert it into a true tactical TPS with abilities, its still an ARPG. So why not let it have a room nuker or two? Its not as if you are forced to play in a squad with one. Go PUG? See an Ash? Kindly ask them not to spam Storm...or drop. 

But Merc...its so spammable. 

Yes it is. And so is Avalanche. With which I have outkilled Ash on numerous occasions. WoF is spammable. Maim and Hysteria are near-permanent, always on modes. Oh, and Peacemaker...dont get me started. Mesa doesnt NEED no stinkin' swords. My point here is everything in the game is spammable. But  this doesnt make abilities bad, unfair or in need of change. 

Spammable abilities are a product of other design decisions (possibly flaws) that have nothing to do with the abilities themselves, and everything to do with 75% efficiency, Fleeting Expertise, Energy Siphon, Energy Vampire (cause that's a reasonable ability) and Orbs dropping like candy at a parade. Just because other flaws in the game allow abilities to be spammed now, doesnt mean we need to address yet another symptom. We need to balance energy and the economy surrounding it, NOT nerf the abilities that use that energy into borderline uselessness. 

All of which is not to say Ash DOES NOT need changed. Maybe he does. But we thought Saryn needed changed, too. And so she got it. And now she mostly goes on a shelf, except for those few people (and I've not seen one; seriously, not ONE) who still use her after her change. I keep her around, hoping someone comes to their senses and reverts most of the damage done to her at some point in the near future (seriously, your definition of Synergy is write a Macro or suffer Carpel Tunnel, why?) but I dont hold out much hope. I mean, she's still useful, I understand that; by pressing 3, 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 1, 1, 4 after shooting 19 enemies with a stug or Viral Flamethrower within exactly 5m of Saryn on a Tuesday during a leap year blue moon in early March of where in the month hosts Easter you can get her to do something resembling her old level of damage.

Or...you can just bring Mesa, Frost or Equinox and have a much easier time killing all those armored enemies. Because you were using Corrosive Projection anyway, silly. Of course you were.

Personally, after using him for a time...I'm not so sure Ash really needs changed. I think the game needs frames to fill every role. I think we are perilously close to losing our last efficient Nuke. I think the game is much more fun when we are allowed to be as powerful as our enemies, if not more so.

Does the game need more challenging content? Sure it does. Modes with no Orbs as loot, limited energy and other optional modifiers should exist. Maybe a nightmare mode on every node, for bonus affinity and resources, even credits. But not every node needs to be Dark Souls in Space every day, and while yes I am aware that's a stretch, I still maintain that this game is, at heart, an ARPG, and that if we keep nerfing all the Nukers - and it will be perceived as a Nerf I promise - we will continue to see players leave the game, as we are now. 

Just some food for thought. Thanks for reading and please, lets keep it rational.

 

not fun for me as an ash user , i get bored Quite Quickly. not fun for me as a player with an ash on my team. bladstorm needs reworked and the sooner the better

[IRVoidGuru]

On 8/7/2016 at 9:20 PM, BlackCoMerc said:

Teleporting into a crowd and killing a big dude, spinning round and hitting 4 to murder an entire crowd is a rush. Dodge rolling past the Eximus, whirling about and killing the entire crew is cool. Soaring above a crowd, watching the Heavy Gunner dial in on you...and then you're across the room murdering her retinue. Its a pretty cool thing to do and see from time to time.

I'm not going to use it every night (I have Frost for that) but its a cool change of pace. And cathartic. 

but You are not doing any of these things. all your doing is parkour 2.0 mixed with some Press 4 , added in every now and again , and then watching ash teleport and kill while you watch and do nothing. how is this a rush? just typing this i can feel only a rush of boredom, thinking about it makes it worse. doing it? zzzzzzz

[IRVoidGuru]

On 8/12/2016 at 8:47 PM, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

In the meanwhile, there's tons of frames that nobody plays anymore. Hydroid, Oberon, Zephyr, Limbo, the list goes on... Why not fix those instead of screwing the frames that actually work and that people enjoy using ?

as far as iv seen , even ash players call his BS boring. why do you enjoy pressing 4 and doing nothing while your ash goes to town?  limbo hydroid and oberon are not used cuz lazy skills like bladstorm take all of the meaning away from having any skill. why get good when you can get ash

[BlackCoMerc]

12 hours ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

as far as iv seen , even ash players call his BS boring. why do you enjoy pressing 4 and doing nothing while your ash goes to town?  limbo hydroid and oberon are not used cuz lazy skills like bladstorm take all of the meaning away from having any skill. why get good when you can get ash

Fair enough. I too find Bladestorm boring. From a game play standpoint, sure, I hope it gets changed. Becomes something interactive. But I also hope it remains an ability that kills things very efficiently. 

[VoidWraith]

Sometimes there are just pointless bladestorm spamming. Case in point provided by the comedic quiette shallow, aka, quiette shy:

 

[Marvelous_A]

Actually I'm all for P4TW but BS pins myself in place and I can't do anything during animation. Ash has good abilities and BS apparently doesn't work well along his other 3 abilities.

[(PSN)darkwave]

I main ash n probably one of the few ashes that dnt just spam BS really only use for a tight spot. Does it need a rework sure why not bcuz whether DE makes BS useless or still a relevant ult a good ash doesn't rely on BS to win or do good n those who only use BS either 1 dnt use ashes kit fully (with augment mods ofc) 2 some trash or 3 just trolling. Now my personal opinion when they change it I hope it remains a effective killing ult wit end game scaling but I'm prepared for DE to make it useless

Edited September 11, 2016 by (PS4)darkwave

[manub]

i m an avid ash user too

unfortunately, though i love it, i m of the opinion that BS needs to be changed (how i have no idea)

you can t compare BS to avalanche for 2 simple reasons:

1-avalanche is centered on the frame, BS is usable anywhere you can see an enemy. huge difference in usability as with frost you have to survive getting to where it s used but ash can go on a stroll ( invisibly moreover) & still nuke anywhere on the map provided it has line of sight

2-frost is not invincible during avalanche, ash is during bladestorm. even i have used BS as a panicbutton: low on health? BS till you recover.

also with the duration BS can take, efficiency & the energy regeneration from zenurik focus, one can BS continually during missions if no leech eximi spawn ( & even then clear 1/2 the map no sweat). push-to-win to the max, not really fun for teammates

 

don't get me wrong i love ash & BS, & i would keep it if i could.

but i can see DE's point here & i don't blame them, the nuke spammers are those who led to this

we can only hope ash's future ult will be almost as good

 

edit: spelling

Edited September 11, 2016 by manub

[Malitias]

On 8.8.2016 at 3:16 AM, Mineeden said:

How is pressing 4 fun?

On some frames it is, on Ash it doesn't. At least for me. Being unable to do anything myself and being locked in a "cinematic" that can take ages just doesn't feel good to me.

[(PSN)LordSnoz007]

Just an idea that popped into my head as I was reading this thread. The thread itself has managed to stay pretty constructive through the first page. But I had a slight epiphany. What if we changed Ash's blade storm to something akin to Excalibur radial blind in functionality. I know crazy, but hear me out. What if his ult really was a storm? What if ash released a cloud of smoke that scaled to his power range, covering said range in impenetrable fog that has the same effect as his smoke screen? But when within this fog ash AND other frames have free cause to slaughter all enemy within the fog who now take finisher damage similar to Excals radial blind with the 300% melee finisher damage. The ability could scale with power range to have a larger cloud. Power strength to have a larger finisher multiplier, from a base of 300%. Then of coarse duration could have an effect on the longevity of your "blade storm." Maybe sitting at a base time of around 15 seconds for some serious kill time.

Take this for what you will, it is just an idea not the end all be all. I still like ashes current ability, but thought I might as well be constructive.

P.S. You could even give ash's death clones free range of the storm to kill whom they please, giving the illusion that you are out doing work.

 

[Nazrethim]

6 hours ago, (PS4)LordSnoz007 said:

-snip-

I like that it's a suggestion that makes use of Duration, which kicks Fleeting Expertise in the d*ck. That sh*t is what's causing the problem actually, without it there's no Bladespam, or any ability spam for that matter (well, there's trinity, but Trini's EV is broken as f*ck too, so there's that)

[(PSN)LordSnoz007]

4 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

I like that it's a suggestion that makes use of Duration, which kicks Fleeting Expertise in the d*ck. That sh*t is what's causing the problem actually, without it there's no Bladespam, or any ability spam for that matter (well, there's trinity, but Trini's EV is broken as f*ck too, so there's that)

Yup, I tried to think of something that would please some people from both sides. Prolonged radial death cloud seemed kinda legit.

[AlfieSR]

I realise you're most likely joking, but right off the bat

On 08/08/2016 at 2:10 AM, BlackCoMerc said:

Let us calmly, in the manner of mature adults, assess the situation.

(...)

WAAAA! Ash-Hole stole all my killz! Mommy! I'm taking my Energy Vampire and going Home!

Is both hypocritical and rude, and

On 08/08/2016 at 2:10 AM, BlackCoMerc said:

Its about the only efficient room nuker we've got left (seriously, this is more true every day)

Is just as much a negative to some people as it is a positive to you. You also don't need to mention fun twice, that's just inflating your own list.

 

These points have probably been addressed before because I just realised I haven't read the whole thread yet.

Edited September 12, 2016 by AlfieSR

[silvershadow0099]

Naa BS is fine as it is .... it has a max count limit which stops it from clearing rooms and all....
No change needed....

[R34LM]

Considering how long it has been since DE mentioned even touching bladestorm, I think it's safe to say that it will either be well thought out, or it has not been a priority whatsoever for the last few months. I think anything regarding bladestorm at this rate is just wasted breath. There isn't anything inherently wrong with the ability; what people have an issue with is that how people use it. Spamming, using it during radiation sorties, really it's not the ability's fault. Also, changing it bescause it is boring is a weak statement, since many people find it fun while others dont. The argument of why anyone finds it fun is also a moot point. So that's why I'm on the front that the ability doesn't really need a change; what does need addressing is come player etiquette, either in how to use it or how to avoid the frustration of someone else using it. I, too, get a little annoyed when one ash player will do nothing but camp at the objective and just spam, but it is the same ability that has saved my &#! on numerous occasions.

[Profit62]

I actually don't think it would be bad if it worked like exalted blade in which you have to manualy aim and  fire

[Host-Migration]

The problem with Bladestorm for me is that, if an Ash uses Bladestorm against a high-level disruptor, I have to wait 10+ seconds before it's finally killed. Not to mention the ability itself "locks" enemies, so you can't kill them if Ash is currently humpjumping on them. I've used Ash myself and I understand the appeal of spamming 4, but after a couple of games, it got boring really fast. 

On a side note, it's funny how Bladestorm is abbreviated as BS...cause that's what it is; BS.