BLADESTORM: Does it really NEED to Change?

[Eldritchsqueaker]

11 minutes ago, DEATHLOK said:

There is no difference between Blade Storm and those of a number of other frames allowing the player to press "4" over and over. Or press 4 and run around the map. It's all the same, no need to change it. It should not be changed, unless the goal is to remove all the AoE from the game, because, in the end, Blade Storm is nothing more than AoE with added animation.

I've said it before but I'll say it again, BS is not the same as all other AoE in the game. Read the whole thread, someone ran the numbers. 

[haloamted]

10 minutes ago, 7Random77 said:

-Ability to cancel blade storm by pressing 4 again. So you can help if someone down.

That would be a good idea, the least you can ask of him/her when pressing 4 is the reason why someone is down in the first place.

I could not give enough S#&$ if this wasn't a problem in sorties with radiation hazard. 

[DknightOdin]

I read through MOST of the wall of text to which I got one answer to. With the exception of Hysteria, you can die at any point during/before casting ANY of those ults. This simply isn't the case with BS, not to mention you can literally just stand far away from any actual harm after the ability and start it again. Again, at point of its cast is Ash vulnerable which makes it almost contradictory to rest of his abilities which add utility or setup for quick finishers.

Edited August 8, 2016 by DknightOdin

[(PSN)martin576]

21 minutes ago, 7Random77 said:

Only two changes I would like to see.

-Blade storm clones don't block squads weapons damage.

-Ability to cancel blade storm by pressing 4 again. So you can help if someone down.

Everything else seems fine to me.

Amen!

[(PSN)THE_HUNTER96929]

I want it be where ash just throws a HEAP of blades, like a... bladestorm

[D0DECA]

Wether it needs or not is irrelevant to me, because I'm sure it will in due time and looking back at the last redesigns I'm pretty excited to see what DE has in mind for Ash. I'm more concerned if DE is going to balance out weapon stats and requirements at some point.

Edited August 8, 2016 by DNG0

[Zephyr]

Whist you have a solid point, you overlooked one big aspect. The fact i can do anything like read a book or do homework while playing ash. Enemies? Press 4. Team memeber down? Press 4. Mission over? Press 4 anyway.  All the abilities you mentioned (save frost) requires more than pressing for and relaxing while everything is being done.

[kitsu]

Ash's blade storm is the last of the remaining "press 4 to nuke everything" ability. Not only that, but is the least friendly ability with team mates. I've seen too many ashes waste time in bladestorm trying to 'save' fallen tenno. It is literally pretty stupid in my eyes.

[eprstt]

20 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Let us calmly, in the manner of mature adults, assess the situation.

Arguments FOR Changing Bladestorm:

It isn't interactive

Its a Slideshow (hehe, I said this myself not long ago)

Its more prone to Spam than the dollar menu in a Hawaiian sandwich shop. 

WAAAA! Ash-Hole stole all my killz! Mommy! I'm taking my Energy Vampire and going Home!

 

Arguments AGAINST Changing Bladestorm:

Its FUN! (Isnt this still important)

Its about the only efficient room nuker we've got left (seriously, this is more true every day)

It fits Ash's role as an Assassin in the fast paced, horde mode world of Warframe (Dishonored this aint, and thats ok)

Its FUN!

 

A couple of considerations:

I would speculate that Waframe has a considerable number of rather casual fans. People who play the game to veg out, have fun and (in the immortal worlds of my girl) "Make things go splodey." I would further wager that the bulk of Warframe's fan, while probably not quite this casual, are somewhat closer to this demographic than to the serious, hard-core, "I came from ARMA III and I want THAT, but with Parkour and Ninjas" crowd. I would lastly wager that the bulk of those fans who also happen to be Ash users...very vehemently do not want his Ultimate changed. 

But it kills everything in a blink without much interaction! 

Yeah. So does Avalanche. Or Maim when its not busy stunning more people than Buzzfeed talking about dresses and jaws. Where the Star Map is concerned, a Vaykor or Sancti weapon exploding kills everything in the room. How interactive are they? About as interactive as World on Fire. Or old Saryn. You know, the one people actually USED?

As it exists right now, Warframe features a number of Warframes capable of performing a number of roles. Support. Defense. Tank. Nuker. Warframe features these things because at heart, its an Action RPG. With guns and a third person view, sure. But that doesnt change the fact. And ARPG games are notorious for having (and needing) Nuke abilities. It goes with the territory.

And until and unless Warframe undergoes the sort of changes necessary to convert it into a true tactical TPS with abilities, its still an ARPG. So why not let it have a room nuker or two? Its not as if you are forced to play in a squad with one. Go PUG? See an Ash? Kindly ask them not to spam Storm...or drop. 

But Merc...its so spammable. 

Yes it is. And so is Avalanche. With which I have outkilled Ash on numerous occasions. WoF is spammable. Maim and Hysteria are near-permanent, always on modes. Oh, and Peacemaker...dont get me started. Mesa doesnt NEED no stinkin' swords. My point here is everything in the game is spammable. But  this doesnt make abilities bad, unfair or in need of change. 

Spammable abilities are a product of other design decisions (possibly flaws) that have nothing to do with the abilities themselves, and everything to do with 75% efficiency, Fleeting Expertise, Energy Siphon, Energy Vampire (cause that's a reasonable ability) and Orbs dropping like candy at a parade. Just because other flaws in the game allow abilities to be spammed now, doesnt mean we need to address yet another symptom. We need to balance energy and the economy surrounding it, NOT nerf the abilities that use that energy into borderline uselessness. 

All of which is not to say Ash DOES NOT need changed. Maybe he does. But we thought Saryn needed changed, too. And so she got it. And now she mostly goes on a shelf, except for those few people (and I've not seen one; seriously, not ONE) who still use her after her change. I keep her around, hoping someone comes to their senses and reverts most of the damage done to her at some point in the near future (seriously, your definition of Synergy is write a Macro or suffer Carpel Tunnel, why?) but I dont hold out much hope. I mean, she's still useful, I understand that; by pressing 3, 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 1, 1, 4 after shooting 19 enemies with a stug or Viral Flamethrower within exactly 5m of Saryn on a Tuesday during a leap year blue moon in early March of where in the month hosts Easter you can get her to do something resembling her old level of damage.

Or...you can just bring Mesa, Frost or Equinox and have a much easier time killing all those armored enemies. Because you were using Corrosive Projection anyway, silly. Of course you were.

Personally, after using him for a time...I'm not so sure Ash really needs changed. I think the game needs frames to fill every role. I think we are perilously close to losing our last efficient Nuke. I think the game is much more fun when we are allowed to be as powerful as our enemies, if not more so.

Does the game need more challenging content? Sure it does. Modes with no Orbs as loot, limited energy and other optional modifiers should exist. Maybe a nightmare mode on every node, for bonus affinity and resources, even credits. But not every node needs to be Dark Souls in Space every day, and while yes I am aware that's a stretch, I still maintain that this game is, at heart, an ARPG, and that if we keep nerfing all the Nukers - and it will be perceived as a Nerf I promise - we will continue to see players leave the game, as we are now. 

Just some food for thought. Thanks for reading and please, lets keep it rational.

 

nope. it not need to change.

no one can fix his hands or brain by removing this ability from ash. 

and one more thing - can some ather frames dealing damage more then ash? yup. ash over powered? nope. what's the problem?

[Tymerc]

The only change it needs is it not instantly downing teammates when the Ash using it becomes afflicted with a radiation proc. 

[_JustSomeone_]

Reading lets be adults.. i know a lot here will rage while i try to explain stuff .. so for short answer to the BIG QUESTION... Yes bladestorm needs a change. (i play this game for long runs and have been here long enough as well to give this answer freely )

Edited August 8, 2016 by x_xUnknownx_x

[MindHoney]

12 minutes ago, eprstt said:

nope. it not need to change.

no one can fix his hands or brain by removing this ability from ash. 

and one more thing - can some ather frames dealing damage more then ash? yup. ash over powered? nope. what's the problem?

There are 6 pages that you missed that highlight blade storms problems better then i can. Read thoughs and if you still have no idea then we can talk.

[Unohound]

this is completely off topic but, is there an ETA on Titania's release? everything just seems to be delayed and split up into more parts nothing is getting released

[Xebov]

1 minute ago, Unohound said:

this is completely off topic but, is there an ETA on Titania's release? everything just seems to be delayed and split up into more parts nothing is getting released

Should be this week for PC, together with Nekros Rework.

[MindHoney]

2 minutes ago, Unohound said:

this is completely off topic but, is there an ETA on Titania's release? everything just seems to be delayed and split up into more parts nothing is getting released

Nope, but before the summer is over for shure

[Tendou_Souji]

Yes.

[MindHoney]

1 minute ago, Tendou_Souji said:

Yes.

Better words have never been said

[Arniox]

 

20 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

I think the game is much more fun when we are allowed to be as powerful as our enemies, if not more so.

THIS. ALL OF THE THIS. This was an incredibly important thing for me when I first started the game 1 and a bit years ago, it was what drew me in. Being super powerful and actually feeling that power of strength and death all around me. I loved the hack and slash with extreme slashing and extreme slashing. I feel like this game has gone down in that aspect. It's still fun, but it feels less like a god simulator and more like a normal old ARPG

[Arniox]

20 hours ago, (XB1)Woofsie said:

I just thought of something. What if we changed Bladestorm to be an AOE that stays for a set duration on a specific area. Any enemy that enters is targeted by the clones and attacked. Like an actual storm.

But then you won't be (technically) taking part in the ability, so you can't see the cool animations.

I actually really like that idea. But again, that would be the most un-interactive nuker ability in the game yet. You just set it up and leave the area and you're getting kills. I think a really cool idea for ash BS change is that it stays very similar to how it is now, except: 1 - Invulnerability is turned off, 2 - The animations are fixed to be a little better and easier to control, 3 - You have to aim at each enemy when in BS. So you click an enemy (select one) and it kills it, it then kinda floats you in the air with enemies bellow you all selected and you have to actually aim at them and click (select) them for killing and this 'killing' lasts for a duration, so you have to be skilled to get a high amount of kills in the duration 

[Arniox]

20 hours ago, Camelslayer said:

The difference between Bladestorm and every other ult in the game is other ults can actually be resisted and aren't perfect in every single situation.

Bladestorm, using a level 30 Ash with no Power Strength, does 2000 Finisher damage- which bypasses all resistances, armor, and shields. Old Miasma couldn't even do that.

If there's one change that needs made, it's to change it to Slash damage. Problem solved. Not as broken anymore. 
Bleed procs could use a minor rework so that Moas and Rollers don't bleed (because bleeding robots make zero sense, hilarious as it is), but otherwise, just change Finisher damage (or better yet, remove Finisher damage from the game completely). Damage types that bypass all resistances in a game are poor game design, and I can't name a single game where it's actually been done right.

what about simply doing a certain % of dmg but only once per enemy and then leave them with a slash proc. So all enemies who have already been hit from you can't be selected again (to stop spamming) but have massive bleed proc on them and can be killed/teamed up on by the entire squad,

[MindHoney]

7 minutes ago, Arniox said:

 

THIS. ALL OF THE THIS. This was an incredibly important thing for me when I first started the game 1 and a bit years ago, it was what drew me in. Being super powerful and actually feeling that power of strength and death all around me. I loved the hack and slash with extreme slashing and extreme slashing. I feel like this game has gone down in that aspect. It's still fun, but it feels less like a god simulator and more like a normal old ARPG

The reason for that is because God mod game is boring, there's nothing keeping you around. If you've ever modes Skyrim you know what I'm talking about.

[Denninja]

Remove it so he only has 3 abilities and I'll still main for Shuriken.

BS Bandwagon OP, nerf that.

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

No.

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

19 hours ago, Mr.Lube said:

If pressing 4 wasn't fun there would be no ultimates in Warframe. So yes, pressing 4 is fun...to a point. it becomes unfun when it's literally the only thing you do and it starts stealing gameplay from other players.

But yes, pressing 4 is fun.

Exact same argument for Ember.

 

Ash's 4 is by far the most jarring of all, alongside Ember, in that it requires hardly any effort or thought & kills co-op. Every other frame has an element of interactivity to their 4, and DE is moving away from map nukers, that S#&$ is what spawned Nullifiers to begin with

[Xekrin]

1 hour ago, DEATHLOK said:

There is no difference between Blade Storm and AoE abilities of a number of other frames

I gave the difference right above you, scroll up, or go back a page and read all the different comments saying the same thing.  Or just look at the response directly below yours.  Pick whichever you wish.

Not to mention Ash is t he only aoe finisher 4th that I'm aware of?

Only Banshee's 4th with augment is close to being as annoying, with a close second of mirage spamulor.

Edited August 8, 2016 by Xekrin