Specters of the Rail: U2.1 - Nekros Changes

[Finedaible]

This rework was pushed out too quickly. Everything that was fun about Nekros has been removed for sake of 'convenience' and 'performance'.

Selecting your own shadows was fun, and far more useful than it is now. The current 'algorithm' that selects shadows for you, gives way too many repeat enemy types with little to no support units. Selecting units based on them being 'heavy' or 'tanky' isn't always the best choice, as some of these lack certain abilities the lesser ones have. For example, Infested Ancients may have huge hp pools with auras, but they lack the burst damage of a charger, or the cc/buffs of a mutalist moa. If DE insists on keeping the current iteration for SotD, then please reconsider revisions to ability recast cost and interaction with Nullifier fields. The Shadows are already being punished enough, they don't need to die instantly at the whims of a Nullifier spawning on your face.

Desecrate is more convenient and it is still kinda okay for HP Conversion tanks, I'll give it that. However, Desecrate feels mandatory now for people who want to use SotD, by means of the Despoil + Equilibrium combo. Even disregarding SotD, it still feels like Despoil is mandatory because who is going to want to waste energy per enemy killed for a really low chance of loot spawn and a bunch of hp orbs? Even Atlas with Ore Gaze and Hydroid with Pilfering Swarm have a better chance at loot now.

[Wolfnrun]

1 hour ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Nekros might be fine, but there is no reason to not wish for better. A real rework should be something no one can argue is lacking---> EXCALIBUR AND FROST. When you get the op feedback, look at what context it is op in and then tune it down there (fall off over distance on EB was great, but it probably should have been also just on charge attacks or at the end of combos and not on every attack-that was a suggestion i saw-but that's not the point here)

Iv always envisioned desecrate to give health and loot in another way--->through synergy with terrify.

That way desecrate can be it's own ability. Because it should be.

This is my over active imagination proposing an idea for desecrate.

Desecrate also "stuns" enemies that come into contact with Nekros desecrate aura by spawning souls that reach out of the ground, and try to hold them down and looks something like banshees silence effect. It's really just a quick stun, but cast at the same time as fear, it will see enemies ripping away from these tortured souls, losing health, ammo, loot AND armor---> or fear can keep the armor reduction.

Casting shadow punch on an enemy affected by this new desecrate will see their soul blasted our of their body, and one of the souls from desecrate will take over their body, fighting for you for a short duration---> this shouldn't cause anymore lag than inaros sand shadows.

In my mind, Desecrate should not just be a pop corn corpse defiling ability.

Someone else or else's made an awesome suggestion that souls of the dead should prioritize terrified enemies

AND

You should be able to order your souls to charge, or to escort ---> please listen to thses guys.

AND

That soul punch should have an aoe.

I imagine something like oberons one, but it has an impact/explosion like embers fireball (but looked cooler than both) 

AND

7 shadows may be the limit for low endcomputers in a team setting, but there is no reason to limit a SOLO nekros who will suffer from that limitation in the same way when there is no team to worry about causing to lag.

AND 

Have health decay not start until the duration for Souls of the dead has ended-some one else's idea

And

Fear should not cause enemies to run halfway a cross a tileset, and should probably have a duration affected by power strength....me.

If you read all of that, anyone else or even someone from DE, I sincerely hope I am not being overbearing. This is just an idea, among all the other great ideas and is not special by itself. But please do not just look at nekros one time and leave him this way.

^^^ 

Spoiler

 

[Eldritchsqueaker]

Seriously though DE, get rid of the health decay and the droprate nerfs on desecrate.

[Wolfnrun]

Warframe already has a problem with nerfing and "buffs" get rid of the health decay and then we can talk about how much more awesome nekros could be 

Edited August 14, 2016 by Wolfnrun

[---Greed---]

Shadow Of The Dead at the moment is not that bad,it's a longer duration even it's based on drain health if u can make the right build on Nekros.

But at least make it 8 or 10 instead 7 enemy spawn.

or make Nekros at least can spawn "any Eximus Enemy" like Sanguine Eximus from Toxic Ancient or Artic Eximus from Corpus Tech.

it ain't that bad even if Nekros still have drain health for each enemy he spawn.

 

Edited August 14, 2016 by ---Greed---

[(PSN)salovel1991]

5 hours ago, Eldritchkitty said:

They can't keep ignoring all the outcry forever can they?

Yes, yes they can. As shown in the Volt and Excalibur rework feedback. All people wanted was the energy costs on slide attacks removed. And the damage cap on Discharge removed. It's been months and no one from DE has replied. 

[Eldritchsqueaker]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)salovel1991 said:

Yes, yes they can. As shown in the Volt and Excalibur rework feedback. All people wanted was the energy costs on slide attacks removed. And the damage cap on Discharge removed. It's been months and no one from DE has replied. 

Yes but this is /right before his prime access comes/ It's not a smart business move to just ignore so much feedback when they, presumably, want people to get the prime access.

[F4talFr4me]

They lost touch with the player base. simply put. even if it effects sales.

[(PSN)salovel1991]

31 minutes ago, Eldritchkitty said:

Yes but this is /right before his prime access comes/ It's not a smart business move to just ignore so much feedback when they, presumably, want people to get the prime access.

I know. But I still don't expect a change. They were probably thinking people would buy PA for tigris and galatine and didn't think anyone would notice/care.

[Eldritchsqueaker]

Just now, (PS4)salovel1991 said:

I know. But I still don't expect a change. They were probably thinking people would buy PA for tigris and galatine and didn't think anyone would notice/care.

 I'm simply baffled why they did it.

[(PSN)salovel1991]

Just now, Eldritchkitty said:

 I'm simply baffled why they did it.

For the sake of "balance". Is all that I can think of. I don't know I've been noticing that they've been killing their game slowly. 

[bl4ckhunter]

honestly nerfing necros is adding insult to injury, i simply don't know who will buy lootbot prime access given that the sancti tigris and war exist, they can't very well add MORE damage on a tigris can they now?

[Burnthesteak87]

I like the Health Decay, and I really like your idea about picking up Health Orbs that would heal Shadows.

[Eldritchsqueaker]

11 minutes ago, bl4ckhunter said:

honestly nerfing necros is adding insult to injury, i simply don't know who will buy lootbot prime access given that the sancti tigris and war exist, they can't very well add MORE damage on a tigris can they now?

Well if the datamined stats are right, they did add more damage.. but IMO it's still inferior to the Sancti version for the lack of a syndicate proc and the slower reload speed which would really hurt.

[(XBOX)His 1st Shadow]

15 hours ago, Vance.Stubbs said:

All I can say is RIP Nekros. Shadows of the dead was killed during the update, especially adding minion priority nobody asked for. I have nothing else to add.

 

14 hours ago, Koed said:

Not fond of the minion priority either. My strat with Nekros was always just to kill enemies as any other frame and when it was about time to summon/re-summon I would simply just kill the enemies I wanted to summon like ancient healer, nullfire or shield ospreys which in return gave me a nice mix of summon types while ensuring I had that one or two I particularly wanted.

 

I understand the loss of control. But I have to support DE on this one.

(The unwanted was health decay) I definitely wanted priority on stronger enemy types. For QoL, Its by far superior to summoning the last kills. Last thing I wanted to do is slow down and look for enemy types that may not be available. And then, teammates can kill them before you do. That creates inconsistency. Minion priority will allow us to kill without worry when it's time to recast. It's great that if the last thing I killed was a crawler or worse, they won't replace the ancient, bursa, nullifier and so on.

 

That's not to say we couldn't have a way to influence it. I just hated the old way we did it. Those who didn't want to select certain targets often ended up with a lackluster squad. Now it's consistently strong.

But I support usining something like using soul punch to manually add weaker units. (Perhaps the enemy you soul punch and kill is marked. Aim and use the mark on the shadow and they become that enemy type? )

But add an option like that on top of stronger units having priority. But keep the priority for strongest types. Win/win.

 

[bl4ckhunter]

43 minutes ago, Eldritchkitty said:

Well if the datamined stats are right, they did add more damage.. but IMO it's still inferior to the Sancti version for the lack of a syndicate proc and the slower reload speed which would really hurt.

a tigris with even more damage it's just overkill at that point lol, i'd rather reload faster too, specially since i don't bother much with the duplex trigger, still sidegrades are good, i don't think they sell prime accesses though ;)

Edited August 15, 2016 by bl4ckhunter

[Eldritchsqueaker]

10 minutes ago, bl4ckhunter said:

a tigris with even more damage it's just overkill at that point lol, i'd rather reload faster too, specially since i don't bother much with the duplex trigger, still sidegrades are good, i don't think they sell prime accesses though ;)

We'll have to see if they decide to fix it by tuesday, but I've been feeling less and less optimistic with their silence on the matter.

[Tizodd]

I agree and I made a post about the topic here:

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/685687-nekros-health-decay-is-an-unnecessary-change/?page=1

Not to hijack your post, but I think it's better to add to the existing post which already has 95 replies in hopes that DE will notice a long, on-going post as opposed to a bunch of small posts here and there.

[bl4ckhunter]

4 minutes ago, Tizodd said:

I agree and I made a post about the topic here:

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/685687-nekros-health-decay-is-an-unnecessary-change/?page=1

Not to hijack your post, but I think it's better to add to the existing post which already has 95 replies in hopes that DE will notice a long, on-going post as opposed to a bunch of small posts here and there.

not really, time has proven that the best way to get de to acknowledge a problem is from multiple people spamming the same topic, ideally the place for ALL of these discussions would be the nekros change megathread but everyone knows that those kind of threads are pretty much ignored, it's unfortunate that the moderators have more work that way but on the other hand it's de's fault for letting things get out of hand and not gathering feedback BEFORE making changes.

Edited August 15, 2016 by bl4ckhunter

[cBraazy]

8 hours ago, (PS4)B0XMAN517 said:

"Don't fix what isn't broken". I get the whole permabeta thing, but this frame has been centered around desecrate for 3 years. We have support frames, we have damage frames, buff frames, cc frames, tank frames, and a loot boost frame. Nekros was in a very good place and did not need a rework. 

Jes, but the mainproblem was that the people just stay on one place and spamm the 3 key. That is boring. I like the Change, but is didnt needet to be nerved. A better way it would be is to change the the dropchance of rare things with Nekros, not only mods and the other stuff. Sure it is a Game and the funny thing about that is to make his own way and farm by yourself. 

 

Sorry for my bad english. I hope you understand me some how. 

[Matt89Connor]

10 hours ago, ---Greed--- said:

Shadow Of The Dead at the moment is not that bad,it's a longer duration even it's based on drain health if u can make the right build on Nekros.

But at least make it 8 or 10 instead 7 enemy spawn.

or make Nekros at least can spawn "any Eximus Enemy" like Sanguine Eximus from Toxic Ancient or Artic Eximus from Corpus Tech.

it ain't that bad even if Nekros still have drain health for each enemy he spawn.

 

drain health is a problem he need's a modify in SotD, the best suggest i see in the forum is: reduce % of health or lifesteal form enemy...and i'm with you: he need's the ability to spam eximus

[Matt89Connor]

13 hours ago, Eldritchkitty said:

They can't keep ignoring all the outcry forever can they?

if we speak every day, maybe they can think to help us with this warframe :)

[Koed]

6 hours ago, (XB1)His 1st Shadow said:

 

 

I understand the loss of control. But I have to support DE on this one.

(The unwanted was health decay) I definitely wanted priority on stronger enemy types. For QoL, Its by far superior to summoning the last kills. Last thing I wanted to do is slow down and look for enemy types that may not be available. And then, teammates can kill them before you do. That creates inconsistency. Minion priority will allow us to kill without worry when it's time to recast. It's great that if the last thing I killed was a crawler or worse, they won't replace the ancient, bursa, nullifier and so on.

Am I mistaken or doesn't the skill still save/pool/remember the last 20 enemies? If so, you still have to worry. You cant kill a heavy and and an ancient healer and expect to save them longer than 10-20 seconds depending on the mission. I mean, I could easily take out 20 enemies comprised of a mix of crewmen, lancers and ospreys in 20 seconds time so I guess te QoL for you (not me) still has quite some limits?

Also, about team mates killing the units you wanted pre patch had a pretty simple solution - choose high damage single fire weapons like Bows, Snipers, shotguns and explosive weapons. The chances of me getting the last hit with my dread compared to something like a soma was pretty damn high :-)

[RealPandemonium]

20 hours ago, munchpork said:

So here I am after almost a day of testing different builds for nekros ..and shadows of the dead definitely works for him now

Funny you should say that, since it was straight nerfed with no compensation.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

That's what DE wants to happen. They have systematically removed everything that makes farming quicker or easier. They want to to buy the pre-made crap or boosters instead. It should have been obvious when they made it so Ivara couldn't steal from bosses.