Specters of the Rail: U2.1 - Nekros Changes

[IRVoidGuru]

21 hours ago, F4talFr4me said:

Of course they wont revert changes.. and by changes i mean nerfs to already poor frames nobody used before, and nobody will use now, especially after hammering the last nails in the coffin.

i use saryn after rework , i love nekros before and even more now , my Mesa is my main and i still player her . the recent reworks have made me like frames that i hated like Mag ( who used to be nothing but shield polarize spam) none of these reworks have been bad, its simply the player base who has not yet evolved

 

On 9/2/2016 at 6:38 PM, ObjectM said:

say this again when your main frame was nerfed.

i loved the rework for my Main frame mesa and still do. if you love this frame then it don't matter what DE can do you will stick with it. that is the unconditional love me and my mesa have <3

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

Ever since the Desecrate rework, I never, ever considered glancing over what impact an Arcane Pulse set had for Nekros' health orb synergy. Now that it's a toggle ability, I'm honestly glad that I took the time to integrate it into my build.

Press3toDesecrate? Even if it did provide more loot, I'd rather have the convenience of Desecrate automatically spawning me health orbs and just running over them, randomly healing me for 125 health AND my party members near me for 100 health. That split second just to "press-to-Desecrate" would have had me as a sitting duck awaiting enemy fire. If anything, just up the loot chance from 54% to approximately ~70%. It'd still wouldn't affect my play style with regards to this ability.

And everyone is aware about SotD. Nekros is already dead-ish, and we've beaten the topic like it was a dead horse. Someone in the DE Art Department design an Apocalyptic Horse helmet for Nekros already. :V

[NeithanDiniem]

On 9/2/2016 at 6:44 PM, ObjectM said:

less loot more health orbs, sure... balancing

Yes, because instead of a guaranteed health orb with your chance of nothing, they moved the health orb to take up some of that nothing. And as if the free loot wasnt already a skew in his favor for unbalanced.

23 hours ago, F4talFr4me said:

Of course they wont revert changes.. and by changes i mean nerfs to already poor frames nobody used before, and nobody will use now, especially after hammering the last nails in the coffin.

I have seen easily 5 times the number of Nekros players now, and no I do not mean the prime. Hes actually viable now for things that don't involve farming, and people are actually able to enjoy him instead of playing the "Mash the button game." Plenty of people are using him. If this is the kind of change that killed the character for you, you really are going to dislike the future of Warframe.

On 9/2/2016 at 5:52 PM, ObjectM said:

sry but i see no reason to nerf desecrate to 54%

Yes, because actually being able to play the game instead of endlessly having to slam that 3 button isn't a good compensation for the frame. I'm sorry but if you want to push a button all day and get rewarded for it, Cookie Clicker would be right up your alley.

[F4talFr4me]

2 hours ago, NeithanDiniem said:

Yes, because instead of a guaranteed health orb with your chance of nothing, they moved the health orb to take up some of that nothing. And as if the free loot wasnt already a skew in his favor for unbalanced.

I have seen easily 5 times the number of Nekros players now, and no I do not mean the prime. Hes actually viable now for things that don't involve farming, and people are actually able to enjoy him instead of playing the "Mash the button game." Plenty of people are using him. If this is the kind of change that killed the character for you, you really are going to dislike the future of Warframe.

Yes, because actually being able to play the game instead of endlessly having to slam that 3 button isn't a good compensation for the frame. I'm sorry but if you want to push a button all day and get rewarded for it, Cookie Clicker would be right up your alley.

1. bollocks. now we cant desecrate the same corpse multiple times for loot anymore. cutting corpses into 2 no longer desecrates both parts. loot chance was destroyed and they messed with the loot tables to double shaft us. the energy used per corpse is ridiculous now too and is used even if you fail to obtain loot. 100% NERF.

2. funny i have seen very few if at all. never seen one in a sortie before ether. he is not viable now and he never was before these nerfs. only people who augmented the heck out of him can use him because without the augments he is a 100% trash frame. no frame should be forced to have mandetory augments.

3. Nowhere did DE say "we gonna give you quality of life change and in return we will nerfhammer desecrate to oblivion" they said IT WILL BE TOGGLE, thats it. nothing more. because we honestly wasent expecting an already weak frame to have some sort of "compromise" because he DIDENT NEED IT, he wasent exactly anywhere near OP (or even good for that matter) before the damd "rework" (DE's secret word for nerf). IT WASENT NEEDED OR JUSTIFIED!. they nerfed the only thing he had going for him while buffing NOTHING to compensate for this.

Protip: while playing games you are just pushing different buttons all the time. might not be the same one. but still a button nonetheless, Cookie Clicker my ****

Edit: DE also said Shadows of The Dead wouldent need duration. look how that turned out. lies.

Edited September 4, 2016 by F4talFr4me

[ShiraHagane]

7 minutes ago, F4talFr4me said:

Edit: DE also said Shadows of The Dead wouldent need duration. look how that turned out. lies.

oh yeah, they did say that

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

1 hour ago, F4talFr4me said:

the energy used per corpse is ridiculous now too and is used even if you fail to obtain loot.

Despoil Nekros with a maxed Blind Rage only consumes 17 health per Desecrate. Health Orbs heal for 25 health, and there are several avenues to regain health consistently outside Despoil Desecrate's health drain (Syndicate procs, Medi-ray, Arcane Pulse, Arcane Grace, Life Strike, etc.). I don't know why this specific concept is a problem here. 

Edited September 4, 2016 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23

[F4talFr4me]

like i said.. you seem to think nekros has despoil by default or something? news flash HE DONT.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

9 minutes ago, F4talFr4me said:

like i said.. you seem to think nekros has despoil by default or something? news flash HE DONT.

Well, what can I say? Your choice to not use Despoil is where you're going to suffer, your ideas to neglect the existence of Health orbs is your choice and your decision to suffer as well. Despoil Nekros was the way to curb the drain that Nekros had to go through even before his rework. Keep suffering mate.

[F4talFr4me]

Not a choice. i dont have it unlocked at the start. it costs an arm and a leg to get threw a the reputation of a single faction.

[NeithanDiniem]

3 hours ago, F4talFr4me said:

1. bollocks. now we cant desecrate the same corpse multiple times for loot anymore. cutting corpses into 2 no longer desecrates both parts. loot chance was destroyed and they messed with the loot tables to double shaft us. the energy used per corpse is ridiculous now too and is used even if you fail to obtain loot. 100% NERF.

2. funny i have seen very few if at all. never seen one in a sortie before ether. he is not viable now and he never was before these nerfs. only people who augmented the heck out of him can use him because without the augments he is a 100% trash frame. no frame should be forced to have mandetory augments.

3. Nowhere did DE say "we gonna give you quality of life change and in return we will nerfhammer desecrate to oblivion" they said IT WILL BE TOGGLE, thats it. nothing more. because we honestly wasent expecting an already weak frame to have some sort of "compromise" because he DIDENT NEED IT, he wasent exactly anywhere near OP (or even good for that matter) before the damd "rework" (DE's secret word for nerf). IT WASENT NEEDED OR JUSTIFIED!. they nerfed the only thing he had going for him while buffing NOTHING to compensate for this.

Protip: while playing games you are just pushing different buttons all the time. might not be the same one. but still a button nonetheless, Cookie Clicker my ****

Edit: DE also said Shadows of The Dead wouldent need duration. look how that turned out. lies.

1: You are already gaining more rewards than all other Warframes from killed enemies and your gripe is that you cant utilize an oversight to get even more? Damn straight is a nerf, because it was a needed fix for the gore system. You spent energy when you failed before or when you only got a health orb, so DE took the health orb out of the mandatory alternate drop and reduced the cost from 50 to 10. They then took the 60% drop chance and reduced it to a 54% drop chance because they took out the health orb drop requirement for a 75-90% loot table drop chance, which also had a chance at nothing even if successful. They made it a toggle so now instead of being a worthless bump on a log for your team you can help them fight as well as provide your same drop increase utility function. The odds of getting something from an enemy are identical to what they were before, sans the removal of dual desecrations from multiple body parts. A 54% chance with no other requirements that lets me play the game instead of just click one button is a lot better than a 60% chance for a 90% chance on top of that (hint, thats was a 54% chance) that forces me to stand still and do jack.

2: Then you and I are simply having different experiences. With people I daily play with and the groups we group with have seen far more Nekros players than before, which before it was effectively zero. His augments aren't mandatory at all, and thinking so just means you should do us all a favor and not play as him.

3: DE is under no obligation to even care about your opinion on what they should do with their game, but they also don't have to tell you anything about it.  They made the change because it is their game, it is their decision, and it now better fits their plans for how they want the game to play. Deal with it.

Protip: Pressing a variety of buttons are not the same as only pressing one button over and over. I prefer pushing all the buttons that allow me to enjoy the game compared to the loot clicker minigame that was Nekros before. Again if you want to enjoy clicking the same exact button over and over then go play a clicker game, Im sure the experience will be roughly the same.

Edited September 5, 2016 by NeithanDiniem

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

5 minutes ago, F4talFr4me said:

Not a choice. i dont have it unlocked at the start. it costs an arm and a leg to get threw a the reputation of a single faction.

It's about 5-10p for Despoil on Trade, a clan member or friend can actually give it to you for free because while it may actually be expensive to you, they have enough standing to not give two S#&amp;&#036;s about spending it and trading it to you for pennies to a dollar or an Ammo Drum. Access to trade requires MR2 to unlock as well. And getting Desecrate to activate on an unranked Nekros is about level 6 to the frame at minimum.

So yeah, it's your choice for not using Despoil. Don't say it isn't.

[achromos]

     Is it me, or is Nekros just a glorified Loot roller if you are in a mission with a single Combus/Scrambus, I've been against multiple types of Scrambus and they all seem to just DELETE Nekros's summons.  Is it me, or am I the only one who thinks this is rather unjustified?  I was already annoyed by Nullifiers but at least in some small part I could physically do something about it.  It seems, to me that Combus/Scrambus just have to breathe the same air and all seven summons go down as if they were made of less then dust.

   Can someone explain to me how this is fair, for a Nekros player?  While say a Mirage can maintain her hall of mirrors and run around with a Synoid Simulor all the time.  Or a Nyx can run around with Chaos?  I'm not asking for a Combus/Scrambus nerf and i'm not asking for Mirage or Nyx or any other frame to get a nerf either. I'm asking if they can be balanced and actually fair?  I mean, DE has proved that they can be reasonable (look at the Ballisticas, we have a option even while in the midst of fighting to see if we are about to get our head taken off) so can there be something that we can do as a player to STOP them instead of just shooting things and only shooting things. 

    Or maybe I could just bring A valkyr with as much health and armor on her and forgo abilities as a whole on these missions.  I feel like I play Warframe for it's flavor, I absolutely hate shooters and yet here I am.  Wierd, huh... and DE only knows how much $$$ I've spent willingly and happily on this game without feeling goaded or pressed to.

Maybe I'm just missing how Overpowered Nekros is, and there is some Secret with his SoTD that other players know and a absolute reason why Combus/Scrambus delete them by seemingly looking at them.  Am I in the Wrong here?

Edited September 5, 2016 by achromos
This isn't a complaint about difficulty, these enemies mostly die within one hit from Tigris Prime Shot.

[F4talFr4me]

23 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

1: You are already gaining more rewards than all other Warframes from killed enemies and your gripe is that you cant utilize an oversight to get even more? Damn straight is a nerf, because it was a needed fix for the gore system. You spent energy when you failed before or when you only got a health orb, so DE took the health orb out of the mandatory alternate drop and reduced the cost from 50 to 10. They then took the 60% drop chance and reduced it to a 54% drop chance because they took out the health orb drop requirement for a 75-90% loot table drop chance, which also had a chance at nothing even if successful. They made it a toggle so now instead of being a worthless bump on a log for your team you can help them fight as well as provide your same drop increase utility function. The odds of getting something from an enemy are identical to what they were before, sans the removal of dual desecrations from multiple body parts. A 54% chance with no other requirements that lets me play the game instead of just click one button is a lot better than a 60% chance for a 90% chance on top of that (hint, thats was a 54% chance) that forces me to stand still and do jack.

2: Then you and I are simply having different experiences. With people I daily play with and the groups we group with have seen far more Nekros players than before, which before it was effectively zero. His augments aren't mandatory at all, and thinking so just means you should do us all a favor and not play as him.

3: DE is under no obligation to even care about your opinion on what they should do with their game, but they also don't have to tell you anything about it.  They made the change because it is their game, it is their decision, and it now better fits their plans for how they want the game to play. Deal with it.

Protip: Pressing a variety of buttons are not the same as only pressing one button over and over. I prefer pushing all the buttons that allow me to enjoy the game compared to the loot clicker minigame that was Nekros before. Again if you want to enjoy clicking the same exact button over and over then go play a clicker game, Im sure the experience will be roughly the same.

1. So i should be gaining something. its taking up my 3rd skill slot. its not just a "mememe" skill ether. the whole team benefits from it so i dont see the problem. you dont nerf the only thing a weak frame is good for then give nothing in return. shot themself in the foot with Nekros Prime sales thanks to that.

2. If his augments arent mandatory why does everyone assume every nekros has Shield of the Dead and Despoil? Lei-Lei_23 proved my point.

3.Clearly dont care about my opinion or anyone else of this forums by the feedback section of the forums not having a single responce in god knows how long. i also dont care if they ignore my opinion ether, but they lied to the (nekros lovers) community. you dont lie to your playerbase. one thing that can kill a game its lies.

4. i dident enjoy clicking in a corner. but it was worth it due to the outcome and he was great at what he did. providing lots of loot/hp/ammo to me and my team RELIABLY. now its just cast and forget, with a slight chance of you actually getting something thats not even worth the energy cost any more. they ruined SoTD, all we need now is the 2 last remaining useless skills to get "reworked" so DE can put him in the trash pile where he belongs.

Edited September 5, 2016 by F4talFr4me

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

21 minutes ago, F4talFr4me said:

2. If his augments arent mandatory why does everyone assume every nekros has Shield of the Dead and Despoil? Lei-Lei_23 proved my point.

Hydroid doesn't need Pilfering Swarm. Ivara doesn't need Infiltrate. Loki doesn't need Irradiating Disarm. Valkyr doesn't need Eternal War. Vauban doesn't need Perpetual Vortex or Repelling Bastille. Etcetera.

Ability augments are used for the sake of convenience. Despoil is a highly convenient augment. It's not mandatory. Your choice in not using Nekros' augments, post-rework and pre-rework, is your position and approach to using Nekros. You want to take the try-hard route, go ahead. I respect that. However, there are also ways to regain energy as well (Syndicate procs, Arcane Energize, Zenurik's Energy Overflow passive, Energy Siphon, Primed Flow for sustained extended energy gains). Just don't suggest that the refusal to use augments is highly inconvenient. It's a different playstyle.

[(PSN)salovel1991]

You forgot Bursa. Making him completely useless against Corpus.

Edited September 5, 2016 by (PS4)salovel1991

[PsychoticMarik]

6 hours ago, NeithanDiniem said:

I have seen easily 5 times the number of Nekros players now, and no I do not mean the prime. Hes actually viable now for things that don't involve farming, and people are actually able to enjoy him instead of playing the "Mash the button game." Plenty of people are using him. If this is the kind of change that killed the character for you, you really are going to dislike the future of Warframe

You see him more now than before because he's got a new prime and was semi recently "reworked" so people are checking it out.

Its as simple as that. I have no issues with the desecrate changes myself(why is it possible to expend hp/energy to roll nothing tho honestly?)but the changes to his shadows are 100% worse now than they were pre "rework".

He was always viable before with his shadows just overlooked because most people only gave a damn about his loot skill. Which is why loot skills are bad design.

I realize this is a desecrate topic and thats what your addressing, and really we dont actually disagree in that regard, but the shadows are factually worse, and the hp decay is bad enough to kill the character(and by extension the game)for me. Which is why I cant stand people going around acting like Nekros is somehow better now just because they have actually bothered to test him because he got an "update" and a shiny prime.

Its nice that desecrate is a toggle now(tho it should be replaced entirely)but Nekros is not at all better now than he was before just because the loot skill doesnt need mashing anymore. Its much bigger than that, and on a whole DE have utterly failed with this rework. I would expect far more in a modernized Nekros and everything fell short.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

1 minute ago, (PS4)salovel1991 said:

You forgot Nullifiers and Bursa. Making him completely useless against Corpus.

During the first round of the Corpus Bust mini-event, the 75k credit mission, the entire defense map in all 10 waves had Hyenas mass AoE proc'ing Magnetic, completely draining the party of energy. Despoil Desecrate Nekros was pretty much the one thing that helped manage this type of mission, and even though the level cap was 20-25, I can see myself managing just fine if it was level 80-100 with Naramon.

[(PSN)salovel1991]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

During the first round of the Corpus Bust mini-event, the 75k credit mission, the entire defense map in all 10 waves had Hyenas mass AoE proc'ing Magnetic, completely draining the party of energy. Despoil Desecrate Nekros was pretty much the one thing that helped manage this type of mission, and even though the level cap was 20-25, I can see myself managing just fine if it was level 80-100 with Naramon.

Yeah that's great if you want to only run him for desecrate. But Magnetic procs constantly going off means your shadows die to health decay, nullifiers, and scrambus. Unless you run max efficiency you still won't be able to cast SotD. Scrambus enemies nullify casting of abilities and if they sneeze at your shadows they die. Further more this makes you a basic WoF ember just desecrating while shadows are useless and provide no support to you whatsoever. Which is dumb. It effects us on console even more because nullifiers still spawn directly on us with full bubbles. 

Edited September 5, 2016 by (PS4)salovel1991

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

Just now, (PS4)salovel1991 said:

Yeah that's great if you want to only run him fir desecrate. But Magnetic procs constantly going off means your shadows die to health decay, nullifiers, and scrambus. Unless you run max efficiency you still won't be able to cast SotD. Scrambus enemies nullify casting of abilities and if they sneeze at your shadows they die. Further more this makes you a basic WoF ember just desecrating while shadows are useless and provide no support to you whatsoever. Which is dumb. It effects us on console even more because nullifiers still spawn directly on us with full bubbles. 

Yeah, which is why I didn't use or cast SotD even though my build was built toward Despoil and Shield of Shadows. I adapted. I used Naramon and melee-slideattacked Nullifiers and Hyenas with my Dark Split-Sword under the cover of Naramon. I had "some" energy from Health Orbs via Equilibrium as well, but again, energy was cut out of my playstyle because of the Magnetic procs.

I also usually run a 45% efficiency build with a max Blind Rage on Nekros.

I'm just making a point that Nekros is not useless against Corpus. He's actually perfectly sustainable. The only thing you have to keep in mind are Mine and Shield Ospreys and you're good to go.

[achromos]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

Yeah, which is why I didn't use or cast SotD even though my build was built toward Despoil and Shield of Shadows. I adapted. I used Naramon and melee-slideattacked Nullifiers and Hyenas with my Dark Split-Sword under the cover of Naramon. I had "some" energy from Health Orbs via Equilibrium as well, but again, energy was cut out of my playstyle because of the Magnetic procs.

I also usually run a 45% efficiency build with a max Blind Rage on Nekros.

I'm just making a point that Nekros is not useless against Corpus. He's actually perfectly sustainable. The only thing you have to keep in mind are Mine and Shield Ospreys and you're good to go.

I guess you have a point with Naramon, but... name me one frame that cannot use naramon and be successful as long as you have a decent melee equipped?

[(PSN)salovel1991]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

Yeah, which is why I didn't use or cast SotD even though my build was built toward Despoil and Shield of Shadows. I adapted. I used Naramon and melee-slideattacked Nullifiers and Hyenas with my Dark Split-Sword under the cover of Naramon. I had "some" energy from Health Orbs via Equilibrium as well, but again, energy was cut out of my playstyle because of the Magnetic procs.

I also usually run a 45% efficiency build with a max Blind Rage on Nekros.

I'm just making a point that Nekros is not useless against Corpus. He's actually perfectly sustainable. The only thing you have to keep in mind are Mine and Shield Ospreys and you're good to go.

It does not matter because this post is about SotD. Not everyone has Naramon. Nor should a focus school ever be a crutch for anything. But if you're around a scrambus they can nullify desecrate as well. SotD is completely unbalanced against a faction which makes up more than 1/4th of the game. The game does revolve around adapting. But DE has been trying to shift from only use this vs this but they're making it worse. Just as they changed Mag to be better against the other factions. I personally dislike playing Naramon and doing nothing more than desecrating. The very theme of the frame is Necromancy. So you're telling me not to be a space ninja necromancer? 

[F4talFr4me]

42 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

Hydroid doesn't need Pilfering Swarm. Ivara doesn't need Infiltrate. Loki doesn't need Irradiating Disarm. Valkyr doesn't need Eternal War. Vauban doesn't need Perpetual Vortex or Repelling Bastille. Etcetera.

Ability augments are used for the sake of convenience. Despoil is a highly convenient augment. It's not mandatory. Your choice in not using Nekros' augments, post-rework and pre-rework, is your position and approach to using Nekros. You want to take the try-hard route, go ahead. I respect that. However, there are also ways to regain energy as well (Syndicate procs, Arcane Energize, Zenurik's Energy Overflow passive, Energy Siphon, Primed Flow for sustained extended energy gains). Just don't suggest that the refusal to use augments is highly inconvenient. It's a different playstyle.

Pilfering swarm alone also does damage and CC, desecrate does nothing but loot regardless of augments. cant comment of ivara, dont have her. Loki is used for his stealth abuse and his radial disarm is great even without the augment. vauban vortex is a gun called Synoid Simulor, a 4th skill as a GUN. but i like vortex because it covers chokepoints and damages/ragdoll CC, (i gave up on nekros and now vauban prime is my main with vortex build.)

Nekros SoTD is not what i call "convenience" its a straight up "get this or die horrible because your a squishy frame". Despoil should be removed and make desecrate drain hp as default.

[akira_him]

I think you underrated terrify. Desecrate can be a team heal skill, not as good as other frames but still it heals. 

[F4talFr4me]

4 minutes ago, akira_him said:

I think you underrated terrify. Desecrate can be a team heal skill, not as good as other frames but still it heals. 

Usualy if something gets passed your shields and straight to your health you already wont alive long enough for a health orb to do anything. only good thing orbs are for is the odd low rank gas ospray. the later ones wont care about your hp and you die in 2 seconds flat regardless.

[akira_him]

6 minutes ago, F4talFr4me said:

Usualy if something gets passed your shields and straight to your health you already wont alive long enough for a health orb to do anything. only good thing orbs are for is the odd low rank gas ospray. the later ones wont care about your hp and you die in 2 seconds flat regardless.

and that's where terrify shines. if you build towards efficiency you should be able to spam terrify while keeping desecrate up. I did this before despoil mod release and desecrate was needed to spam hard.