Specters of the Rail: U2.1 - Nekros Changes

[Wolfnrun]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

i see , i was missing the point. its about us not being heard or at least feeling ignored. i don't see the Nekros changes as that bad but i do see that ppl are talking about this getting to 30 pages with what feels like no response in the forum or in game. i dont mind volts passive but i do mind the Burning energy from both distance and per sec while Also having a duration limit to volts shield when picked up, one of these 3 limiters have to go. idk about Oberon i tend to avoid him. mags passive is.......moving on. i think that Nekros needs more time before we go drastically changing anything, i have a build that works and is fun and iv seen others say the same. im not saying over all that things DE has done have all been good , im not blind but i do think that these Nekros changes are all for the best other then the HP loss thing.

But over all i see your point now

You'r opinion has been valued, well, by me to say the least, don't get me wrong, volt passive IS good...it's a band-aid though. Nekros was fine, untill the grineer and corpus worked with the sentients to reduce us to nothing... Well, that's about it for me, for now, will continue monitoring this thread, and thank you for seeing view points...have a nice day  

Edited September 9, 2016 by Wolfnrun

[Xekrin]

1 hour ago, Deathkgt said:

Soul Punch is just as bad.  IMO it's one of the worst 1st skills of any warframe.  It has little damage, only single target and has hardly any range.  Also why you want to ragdoll it away from you, when you need the corpses for desecration?

I find it rather amusing that titania has a better soul ejection ability than Nekros does, and its far more useful. 

As you said though, I'd expect that Nekros would want to drag the soul closer rather than forcing it out and away with nothing more than minor impact damage as a result.

Ah well.

DE has so much on their plates I find it highly unlikely they will bother doing anything about the useless abilities of nekros and many other frames any time soon.  Though I use the word useless, I know many will defend their usefulness, anyway there are plenty of abilities that could be much better and used far more often, and aren't because they just don't hold up.

Here's a list I made, just my opinion of course. Soul Punch is Nekros' for sure though.

 

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

1 hour ago, Deathkgt said:

*Complain* *Nerfed* *Whine* *Waaaaah*

He's better than ever before, if you just sit down and stop freaking out over a change for more than 2 seconds



Also; inb4 thread derailment and lock/buff this or buff that

Edited September 9, 2016 by Hawk_of_the_Reborn

[CCamp88]

All my opinion of course... But for myself and most people i know, the Nekros changes actually buffed, rather than nernfed him. Having a build for desecrate/stretch/low duration, now allows him to have 7 shadow/sheilds opposed to 2, and to actually have them up for alot longer.

I agree his 1 is kinda bad, but its not to shabby when you need some instant CC while reloading. Countless times its saved me while im reloading and about to get hit by a bombard or napalm.

As for "not enough mod slots" very few, if any frame have enough to make all 4 skills effective at once. You have to decide what kinda build you want.

anywho, just my $0.02

Regards :-)

 

 

-CCamp88

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

On 9/2/2016 at 6:05 PM, ariivanasan said:

as title says: let us choose between prechange and nowadays. in 1 case its ok with desecrate speed, but in second case we need desecrate like old time 99 in 1 sec

Why would you NOT want it a toggle?

 

[Deathkgt]

Nekros has probably the most conditionary ultimate ever.  No other warframe requires kills before it can be cast.  It's also one of the more expensive(100 energy) and the longer (if not longest) cast time (3 secs).  Not only that, you have to constantly recast shadows, before their horrid duration runs out or it's back to square one (kill more, or no shadows).  Atlus, Inaros have better minions than Nekros himself. 

[Deathkgt]

Please save Nekros!  He should be the Master of the Undead, not Master of the 7 stooges.

[BiancaRoughfin]

I have been using Nekros more often lately since im helping a cousin and a few friends to farm and gear up.

So far i have seen no problems with the new Ult. Shadows scale with enemy level, shadows can use all abilities and skills from their respective enemy, this including Ancient's heals, Heavy's ground punch and Nullifier's bubbles.

[(PSN)salovel1991]

3 hours ago, Deathkgt said:

Please save Nekros!  He should be the Master of the Undead, not Master of the 7 stooges.

But he isn't master of the 7 stooges... He's the master of the 7 ASTHMATIC stooges with no inhalers. 

[(PSN)salovel1991]

4 hours ago, Hawk_of_the_Reborn said:

He's better than ever before, if you just sit down and stop freaking out over a change for more than 2 seconds



Also; inb4 thread derailment and lock/buff this or buff that

How about you actually back up your claim of him being better? How about you comment something in a post without being a condescending jerk? 

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)salovel1991 said:

How about you actually back up your claim of him being better? How about you comment something in a post without being a condescending jerk? 

And


That is why. All his powers are viable, desecrate toggle means never needing to spam 3 in one spot for the whole mission
*Which was the reason why I refused to play him, since that was all he was actually viable in anything, and it was stupid imo.

SotD no longer are tied to a hard duration
*Thus he is able to keep his specific shadows up for practically forever, so long as you manage your environment.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

32 minutes ago, (PS4)salovel1991 said:

But he isn't master of the 7 stooges... He's the master of the 7 ASTHMATIC stooges with no inhalers. 

The dead don't breathe nor need any respiratory functionality.

[(PSN)salovel1991]

3 minutes ago, Hawk_of_the_Reborn said:

And


That is why. All his powers are viable, desecrate toggle means never needing to spam 3 in one spot for the whole mission
*Which was the reason why I refused to play him, since that was all he was actually viable in anything, and it was stupid imo.

SotD no longer are tied to a hard duration
*Thus he is able to keep his specific shadows up for practically forever, so long as you manage your environment.

While not tied to a hard duration they are still tied to a duration. Except shadows scale horribly. Before you say but they go up with level based off the enemies you kill. Yes I know. But put 7 Heavy gunners vs 5 heavy gunners and see which side wins without interfering. The 5 gunners without health decay win everytime. I tested it over 20 times. It further enforces that the shadows are nothing more than dying meat shields. The problem is now that he is horribly imbalanced. It takes 3 heavy gunners to kill 1 lancer. I play tested him at least 30 times across all types of different enemies. Damage scales horribly with armor. Yes Terrify gets rid of armor but it also makes enemies run away quickly, has a 15m radius, and has a target cap. Soul Punch is still exactly the same. We got QoL. It's different than him actually being better. All the things you say he can do now, he could do before. 

[(PSN)salovel1991]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

The dead don't breathe nor need any respiratory functionality.

Well by that logic they should also be immune to poison because they don't need a heartbeat. 

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)salovel1991 said:

While not tied to a hard duration they are still tied to a duration. Except shadows scale horribly. Before you say but they go up with level based off the enemies you kill. Yes I know. But put 7 Heavy gunners vs 5 heavy gunners and see which side wins without interfering. The 5 gunners without health decay win everytime. I tested it over 20 times. It further enforces that the shadows are nothing more than dying meat shields. The problem is now that he is horribly imbalanced. It takes 3 heavy gunners to kill 1 lancer. I play tested him at least 30 times across all types of different enemies. Damage scales horribly with armor. Yes Terrify gets rid of armor but it also makes enemies run away quickly, has a 15m radius, and has a target cap. Soul Punch is still exactly the same. We got QoL. It's different than him actually being better. All the things you say he can do now, he could do before. 

1.) 20 times seems a bit of an incomprehensive test, what of control tests and ones to include specific variables?

2.) Just recast, even without Natural Talent, recasting SotD to heal your shadows is pretty quick.

3.) Apparently you don't know about the damage modifier of 4.43, Health and Shield modifiers of 3.29. IDK about you, but that is a lot of HP/damage. You take 4 normal enemy Heavy gunners, and pit it against one(Only one, just that for example.) of your regular heavy gunner shadows and I bet you at least 2 or 3 of the enemy ones will all be dead before you lose your shadow. That's not even counting the fact that you recast to bring him right back to tip-top shape to keep fighting.


Why does this even need explaining? Sheesh, I though it was easy to figure out..

[SnuggleBuckets]

9 hours ago, Deathkgt said:

Nekros has probably the most conditionary ultimate ever.  No other warframe requires kills before it can be cast.  It's also one of the more expensive(100 energy) and the longer (if not longest) cast time (3 secs).  Not only that, you have to constantly recast shadows, before their horrid duration runs out or it's back to square one (kill more, or no shadows).  Atlus, Inaros have better minions than Nekros himself. 

One minor improvement I think necessary would be to balance the energy cost of recasting the ability:

If all 7 shadows are still active, the energy cost of recasting should not be the regular 100, but something like a tiny fraction of that (as you're mostly just healing the existing ones), costing a larger fraction the more shadows you have to summon back to reach the max 7, that way it won't feel like a waste of energy to recast, especially if you know you have already killed better units you could summon to take the place of your old ones.

[(PSN)salovel1991]

8 hours ago, Hawk_of_the_Reborn said:

1.) 20 times seems a bit of an incomprehensive test, what of control tests and ones to include specific variables?

2.) Just recast, even without Natural Talent, recasting SotD to heal your shadows is pretty quick.

3.) Apparently you don't know about the damage modifier of 4.43, Health and Shield modifiers of 3.29. IDK about you, but that is a lot of HP/damage. You take 4 normal enemy Heavy gunners, and pit it against one(Only one, just that for example.) of your regular heavy gunner shadows and I bet you at least 2 or 3 of the enemy ones will all be dead before you lose your shadow. That's not even counting the fact that you recast to bring him right back to tip-top shape to keep fighting.


Why does this even need explaining? Sheesh, I though it was easy to figure out..

That's the thing. Even with the damage multiplier it still isn't enough. You would be lucky if the situation was reversed and the 4 shadow managed to beat the heavy gunner. But if you can provide me proof through some means of your 1 shadow killing 2-3 regular enemies of the same level and type that will be great. I'll try to figure out how to upload mine from PS and show you. You mean the damage and health multipliers that are the exact same as before the rework? My test was in a controlled environment. There were no outside factors. Just my shadows versus the 7 enemies of equal level/type. 20 failed attempts out of 20 is a 100% failure rate. Of course I could heal the shadows or contribute to killing the enemies but then that doesn't test the true scaling of the ability. The only faction SotD functions decently on is Infested. Even then spawn rates of enemies mean our shadows are constantly at a severe disadvantage. I'm just not seeing any evidence that backs him being any better than before. 

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

21 minutes ago, (PS4)salovel1991 said:

That's the thing. Even with the damage multiplier it still isn't enough. You would be lucky if the situation was reversed and the 4 shadow managed to beat the heavy gunner. But if you can provide me proof through some means of your 1 shadow killing 2-3 regular enemies of the same level and type that will be great. I'll try to figure out how to upload mine from PS and show you. You mean the damage and health multipliers that are the exact same as before the rework? My test was in a controlled environment. There were no outside factors. Just my shadows versus the 7 enemies of equal level/type. 20 failed attempts out of 20 is a 100% failure rate. Of course I could heal the shadows or contribute to killing the enemies but then that doesn't test the true scaling of the ability. The only faction SotD functions decently on is Infested. Even then spawn rates of enemies mean our shadows are constantly at a severe disadvantage. I'm just not seeing any evidence that backs him being any better than before. 

I don't know how he plays on consoles
*As in the ability to use his abilities instantaneously while managing everything else with just a controler*

But I do know that he is leagues better now. Finally you can build him to make all his powers viable and still maintain a powerful use of them in conjunction with each other. The key is having the powers synergize with each other, using them in a way that actually benefits you and/or the team. Not just for DPS or moar loot

[(PSN)Deception_Pharo]

17 hours ago, Deathkgt said:

 

Please save the Nekros

 

Let me call the paramedics.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

18 hours ago, (PS4)B0XMAN517 said:

Just one Tenno's opinion, but I love the new Nekros. He's not only a loot booster he's now a tank. Soul punch is a very useful skill. It does absolutely no damage, but if you want to get a VIP out of the fight for a bit, it works like a charm. Terrify can be insanely useful. A few spams and every enemy leaves you alone for a bit, allowing you to revive enemies, activate life support, gather health orbs, etc. Hek, take 4 Terrify built Nekros to an interception and wave 500 will be just as easy as wave 5. Desecrate happens passively; enough said. SoTd is rather lackluster. They're more of an "attack these instead of me for a few seconds" than an army of the dead. It's almost a less effective form of terrify. Shoot, Nyx can turn every enemy in the room against each other. His 4th doesn't really serve it's purpose, but the rest of his abilities are golden.

Desecrate gave less loot than it did before the Viver nonsense ( I personally Only ever did egate), and less loot after the rework.

Soul punch and terrify were not changed

And he was a tank before.

So....you just said sotd was lackluster and desecrate happens passively...that's about the only thing here I see that might be different from before the rework (I'd argue sotd had a few weak points before the rework, like losing your ult every time there was a host migration-which still didn't change).

You literally could have wrote this post about pre rework nekros and it would still fit word for word, all except the passive desecrate.

Edited September 10, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Edit

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

1 hour ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Desecrate gave less loot than it did before the Viver nonsense ( I personally Only ever did egate), and less loot after the rework.

Soul punch and terrify were not changed

And he was a tank before.

So....you just said sotd was lackluster and desecrate happens passively...that's about the only thing here I see that might be different from before the rework (I'd argue sotd had a few weak points before the rework, like losing your ult every time there was a host migration-which still didn't change).

You literally could have wrote this post about pre rework nekros and it would still fit word for word, all except the passive desecrate.

I don't know if you are the op of the thread I was replying to, part of why I dislike thread merges, but I was replying to a "Save Nekros" thread and was simply stating my opinion as to why I thought we was in good shape. Really the only thing that changed his tankiness was Health Conversion synergising with the ability to desecrate passively. The op went down the list of why he/she though Nekros' skills were garbage and I respectfully disagreed, other than what op said about SoTd. It fit the thread I repied to, but not a mega-feedback thread about the his Rework.

Edited September 10, 2016 by (PS4)B0XMAN517

[(PSN)salovel1991]

So basically the knowledge I'm getting out of this 72 page thread is this

A. These changes have more feedback on them than Valkyr, Volt, and Excalibur.

B. Most people only want a slight boost in shadow multipliers, health decay gone, and less casting cost on healing.

C. There are way too many glitches and shadows counting towards being enemies is one of the biggest.

D. This is one of the most trending topics in the forums and by doing the thread merging you acknowledge there is a massive amount of feedback.

Question is will you do anything about all this? Because I'm not playing until you fix the Vauban glitches. Because I did make 2 or 3 posts about Bastille and Vortex effecting my shadows. 

[Marvelous_A]

1. Desecrate is far less efficient due to the new mechanic (work on the first corpse 2 secs after cast, and then 1 corpse/s, if I not mistaken), now it's almost useless to infested because their bodies disappear in 5s. So at least prolong the disappearing time of infested bodies.

2. "SotD doesn't affected by duration", as mentioned by some others, turned out to be a false statement after the update. Not really complaining on this but a false statement is a false statement.

3. Even only 1 shadow dies you have to recast SotD with full animation and full energy cost. The shadows are not very tanky so it could be a problem. I prefer having the energy cost of recast SotD to scale with number of remaining shadows.

[LunarEdge7]

15 hours ago, Hawk_of_the_Reborn said:

I love this build you have, and I loved how dumb I was not to try a negative efficiency build with Despoil and Equilibrium. High risk, high reward.

And major synergy with desecrating. Just a question, is the range on that build's Terrify really enough for you?

Edited September 10, 2016 by LunarEdge7

[Deathkgt]

15 hours ago, Hawk_of_the_Reborn said:

And

That is why. All his powers are viable, desecrate toggle means never needing to spam 3 in one spot for the whole mission
*Which was the reason why I refused to play him, since that was all he was actually viable in anything, and it was stupid imo.

SotD no longer are tied to a hard duration
*Thus he is able to keep his specific shadows up for practically forever, so long as you manage your environment.

 

Wow just Wow.  Is your Nekros a close range melee user, hence why are you using steel charge?  And the reason why your shadows live a bit longer is because you are sacrificing your health for theirs, since you don't use shield of shadows, not to mention you're going to be prone to knockdowns when you are playing melee.  Plus you are going to have energy issues in a corpus or fissure mission (especially in solo), cuz once your minions get wiped out by nullifiers, you won't have enough energy to recast anything, since terrify cost 115 and shadows cost 155, and u only have a max energy of 188.   I have to question the validity of your build.