Specters of the Rail: U2.1 - Nekros Changes

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

27 minutes ago, F4talFr4me said:

Nekros SoTD is not what i call "convenience" its a straight up "get this or die horrible because your a squishy frame".

The augment is called Shield of Shadows. "Shadows of the Dead" is the name of the ability. And you don't need Shield of Shadows to survive, health orbs with Health Conversion stacks your armor up to 3 stacks of 450 armor per stack. At 3 stacks you're expected to gain +1350 Armor for a total of 1415 Armor. Shield of Shadows is only applied for the damage reduction, but even then, there's Naramon and a crit melee to abstain from the "die horribly because you're a squishy frame" concept that you can't seem to look past.

Again, augments are a convenience. Some more than others. There are other ways to play Nekros and there are plenty of setups with Desecrate that can boost his survivability in-game.

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

On 8/30/2016 at 5:52 AM, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Nekros should just go back to spamming 3. 

This is what's wrong with the way old Nekros used to be. 

Have you ever thought about Nekros's feelings? His dreams and aspirations?

What if he wanted to be a ballet dancer, or maybe a big movie star, or ultra famous rapper? You don't know that, because he was stuck at a dead-end job with no hope and no moving forward while he flipped burgers for a living I mean sat there waving his hand over the ground as if looking for that lost conact lens.


Maybe he wouldn't have to wear contacts and finally get that eye surgery he's been talking about all the time if only he wasn't making barely minimum wage at a mcdonalds

Defiling the graves of his buddies

Grave digging

Desecrating

[Matt89Connor]

7 minutes ago, Hawk_of_the_Reborn said:

This is what's wrong with the way old Nekros used to be. 

Have you ever thought about Nekros's feelings? His dreams and aspirations?

What if he wanted to be a ballet dancer, or maybe a big movie star, or ultra famous rapper? You don't know that, because he was stuck at a dead-end job with no hope and no moving forward while he flipped burgers for a living I mean sat there waving his hand over the ground as if looking for that lost conact lens.


Maybe he wouldn't have to wear contacts and finally get that eye surgery he's been talking about all the time if only he wasn't making barely minimum wage at a mcdonalds

Defiling the graves of his buddies

Grave digging

Desecrating

yeah....desacrate toggle give to us more time to spend for fight...the problem is the health decay and the cost

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

7 minutes ago, Matt89Connor said:

yeah....desacrate toggle give to us more time to spend for fight...the problem is the health decay and the cost

Recast

Recast is less-than-half the speed of an initial cast, no need to have Natural Talent so much wasting a mod slot.

You can keep your perfect-shadow-group that you summoned alive for practically forever.



Better than building for strict duration and strength, because that would just make his other 3 skills less than trash at that point.

[Matt89Connor]

DE there's a problem vs eximus units and vs comba:

1 when you finish your list and kill all eximus (example a sortie eximus stronghold), you can't summon undeads because the game not count eximus units and not change the eximus in normal soldier.

2 near a Comba all undeads dies but when i fight Comba , this is wrong...the last power of nekros should be help for this

[Matt89Connor]

DE there's a problem vs eximus units and vs comba:

1 when you finish your list and kill all eximus (example a sortie eximus stronghold), you can't summon undeads because the game not count eximus units and not change the eximus in normal soldier to the list.

2 near a Comba all undeads dies when i fight Comba and mine undeads are away from him , this is wrong...the last power of nekros should be help for this.

You DE don't want help us with the Health decay problem,the cost of energy for heal only heal the shadow, the number of shadow and his low power at high levels....but pls help with this,

[NeithanDiniem]

6 hours ago, F4talFr4me said:

1. So i should be gaining something. its taking up my 3rd skill slot. its not just a "mememe" skill ether. the whole team benefits from it so i dont see the problem. you dont nerf the only thing a weak frame is good for then give nothing in return. shot themself in the foot with Nekros Prime sales thanks to that.

2. If his augments arent mandatory why does everyone assume every nekros has Shield of the Dead and Despoil? Lei-Lei_23 proved my point.

3.Clearly dont care about my opinion or anyone else of this forums by the feedback section of the forums not having a single responce in god knows how long. i also dont care if they ignore my opinion ether, but they lied to the (nekros lovers) community. you dont lie to your playerbase. one thing that can kill a game its lies.

4. i dident enjoy clicking in a corner. but it was worth it due to the outcome and he was great at what he did. providing lots of loot/hp/ammo to me and my team RELIABLY. now its just cast and forget, with a slight chance of you actually getting something thats not even worth the energy cost any more. they ruined SoTD, all we need now is the 2 last remaining useless skills to get "reworked" so DE can put him in the trash pile where he belongs.

1. DE didn't shoot themselves in the foot, again, the chance of getting something is exactly the same as before, 54%. You only had a 60% chance of having a 90% chance for a loot item before, meaning the total before was 54%. They nerfed nothing about the functionality of the skill.

2. I don't, no one I group with does, and frankly you just generalized that statement.

3. Considering your ideas about desecrate are flat out wrong (the skill has the same drop chance as before for one body as it did before), and you are using old information given quite a bit before they released the updated skill set and thus that info can change based on balance checks in-house as fact for what should be delivered despite DE being known for telling people what they PLAN for an update and ending up changing it later, Why should DE listen to your opinion on the matter?

4. Now you can toggle the skill on and do the same exact thing as you could before while also not sitting there doing nothing.

[Celas_]

57 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

4. Now you can toggle the skill on and do the same exact thing as you could before while also not sitting there doing nothing.

no YOU CANT do the same exact thing as i said 50% Health Orbs and 4% Ressources 46% NOTHING, even Ivara can better loot now in survival, because Nekros dont get that much life support anymore.

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

Comba negates powers. Killing your minions is within that power to negate. That is fine. The Eximus bit does need to be fixed.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

5 hours ago, Hawk_of_the_Reborn said:

This is what's wrong with the way old Nekros used to be. 

Have you ever thought about Nekros's feelings? His dreams and aspirations?

What if he wanted to be a ballet dancer, or maybe a big movie star, or ultra famous rapper? You don't know that, because he was stuck at a dead-end job with no hope and no moving forward while he flipped burgers for a living I mean sat there waving his hand over the ground as if looking for that lost conact lens.


Maybe he wouldn't have to wear contacts and finally get that eye surgery he's been talking about all the time if only he wasn't making barely minimum wage at a mcdonalds

Defiling the graves of his buddies

Grave digging

Desecrating

He told me what we had was special when I let him desecrate my flame. I just want to go back to the good times. T_T

[Burnthesteak87]

On 27/8/2016 at 9:47 AM, Matt89Connor said:

AFTER several hotfix we don't see any fix for the health decay....i think the DE used Nekros only for merchandise not for help well, and i think they not like too mouch this frame, because if they want, they can help well.

We, players of Nekros, want not a great changes, just an help with health decay and the shadows, then we finally see a real ultimate as we saw in the prime trailer: a great power.

I'm a Nekros player since its release and I feel fine enough with Health Decay.
Not only, I feel Nekros is close to the most enjoyable playstyle in Warframe.
Most of other Warframe playstyle are a "brain flatline", "compulsive spam", "cast and forget".
Nekros requires you to harvest energy and make choices on how to use it.
I'm not saying it wouldn't require a little more polishing, however.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Burnthesteak87

[F4talFr4me]

I just noticed something. you know you cant shoot threw the minions nekros makes? why are they called SHADOWS of the dead if they actually physical? hmmm

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

6 hours ago, Hawk_of_the_Reborn said:

What if he wanted to be a ballet dancer, or maybe a big movie star, or ultra famous rapper? You don't know that, because he was stuck at a dead-end job with no hope and no moving forward while he flipped burgers for a living I mean sat there waving his hand over the ground as if looking for that lost conact lens.

[...]

Desecrating

Sir, ma'am, person, username on the Warframe forums. You made an amazing and accurate analogy of how Desecrate used to be.

Take my upvote with clear and supportive conscious!

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

5 hours ago, (PS4)FunyFlyBoy said:

Comba negates powers. Killing your minions is within that power to negate. That is fine. The Eximus bit does need to be fixed.

Nah, that is crappy balance. Just make it increase the speed of their health decay or something, rather than instant killing them. 

[Death_Master_]

Comba/scrambus/nulls are broken by design. So no wonder they are OP against everyhing except fast strong weapons(like boltor prime).

[(XBOX)His 1st Shadow]

Agree with OP.

Other frames press 4 and instantly have an ult. It's understandable that they're instantly removed. Nekros is the only frame that is required to get kills in order to have an ult and at least 7 to achieve its full effect.

 

Under no circumstance should these enemies instantly wipe such an ability. If it requires more to achieve it should also require more to remove. That's simple balancing.

 

its bad enough that dying costs him his ult. I thought, "I just won't die." Oh yea, host migration..... Nekros definitely deserves an adjustment in this regard. But I haven't heard a single response from DE on Nekros since his rework. 

[Snowbluff]

I never thought I would learn to hate Scrambus, but I did with Darvo's event.

Nullis and Scrambus should Suppress, not remove effects.

[Matt89Connor]

when you play Nek and start "host migration"...return to battle you lose: your undeads (like all powers) but, you lost the "list" ..this need an help...,  is Already hard and keep alive the undead (because you need to heal every 20 sec), then if this happens in difficult missions is problematic, DE you like  your child dont' you? And why you don't help him? This is only 1 of 1000 nekros problem...you just got a rework but it's not complete....listen your player for once.

[NeithanDiniem]

23 hours ago, Odins_Sohn_MSTK said:

no YOU CANT do the same exact thing as i said 50% Health Orbs and 4% Ressources 46% NOTHING, even Ivara can better loot now in survival, because Nekros dont get that much life support anymore.

The chance for a health orb is based specifically off of the drop chance of an enemy to give an orb, EXACTLY like before. People didn't notice just how many health orbs they were getting from desecrate before because you only ever got an item drop if the 60% chance for an initial health orb triggered. With so many orbs, most people didn't notice. The ONLY nerf that hit that skill on Nekros was he cannot desecrate a slashed corpse for two drops, which was a bug that DE didn't bother to fix until now. The ability to actually MOVE is a far superior tradeoff. And Ivara cant even compare to how fast Nekros can loot targets. They both pull from the same drop tables and Ivara doesn't have nearly as much speed compared to Nekros's Desecrate when it spools up.

Edited September 6, 2016 by NeithanDiniem

[Matt89Connor]

when you play Nek and start "host migration"...return to battle you lose: your undeads (like all powers) but, you lost the "list" ..this need an help...,  is Already hard and keep alive the undead (because you need to heal every 20 sec), then if this happens in difficult missions is problematic, DE you like  your child dont' you? And why you don't help him? This is only 1 of 1000 nekros problem...you just got a rework but it's not complete....listen your player for once.

[Aurea_Hiigara]

This really falls under "Keep ALL THE DATA on Host Migration".

[zehne]

I think there is some confusion to what the old desecrate was.  It was 60% chance to 'desecrate' any corpse in the area (including parts due to slash).  Upon a successful roll, there was a 90% chance to actually spawn loot (and health orb).  Pound for pound, that means there was a 0.60*0.90= 54% chance that on the first attempt to desecrate a corpse there would be a health orb and extra loot.

Now you only have that one chance to do the same (automatically though).  Meaning that the overall chance to loot from a body is exactly the same as before.  The only difference is that the way the old desecrate worked, you could effectively eliminate that first 60% by re-rolling(spamming desecrate).  So that there was artificially around a 90% chance to actually spawn orbs and loot from a dead body (and that was inflated by body mutilations).

Sure the 'loot' was nerfed by way of not allowing us to 're-roll' on our desecrates, but I don't mind seeing how I can actually just kill more things.  I am no longer stuck desecrating constantly to try and squeeze as much loot out of a single body as possible. 

 

[F4talFr4me]

4 hours ago, NeithanDiniem said:

The chance for a health orb is based specifically off of the drop chance of an enemy to give an orb, EXACTLY like before. People didn't notice just how many health orbs they were getting from desecrate before because you only ever got an item drop if the 60% chance for an initial health orb triggered. With so many orbs, most people didn't notice. The ONLY nerf that hit that skill on Nekros was he cannot desecrate a slashed corpse for two drops, which was a bug that DE didn't bother to fix until now. The ability to actually MOVE is a far superior tradeoff. And Ivara cant even compare to how fast Nekros can loot targets. They both pull from the same drop tables and Ivara doesn't have nearly as much speed compared to Nekros's Desecrate when it spools up.

Id rather they remove desecrate. i dont want this trash version of what it used to be. being mobile but at the cost of a useless skill is not my idea of fun. make desecrate do something else completely different as in its current state there is no reason to even use Nekros anymore.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

1 hour ago, F4talFr4me said:

Id rather they remove desecrate. i dont want this trash version of what it used to be. being mobile but at the cost of a useless skill is not my idea of fun. make desecrate do something else completely different as in its current state there is no reason to even use Nekros anymore.

What it used to be...

5 hours ago, zehne said:

I think there is some confusion to what the old desecrate was.  It was 60% chance to 'desecrate' any corpse in the area (including parts due to slash).  Upon a successful roll, there was a 90% chance to actually spawn loot (and health orb).  Pound for pound, that means there was a 0.60*0.90= 54% chance that on the first attempt to desecrate a corpse there would be a health orb and extra loot.

Now you only have that one chance to do the same (automatically though).  Meaning that the overall chance to loot from a body is exactly the same as before.  The only difference is that the way the old desecrate worked, you could effectively eliminate that first 60% by re-rolling(spamming desecrate).  So that there was artificially around a 90% chance to actually spawn orbs and loot from a dead body (and that was inflated by body mutilations).

Sure the 'loot' was nerfed by way of not allowing us to 're-roll' on our desecrates, but I don't mind seeing how I can actually just kill more things.  I am no longer stuck desecrating constantly to try and squeeze as much loot out of a single body as possible. 

 

... you don't want to kill things in a horde game shooter? Loot is loot, but did peeps actually enjoy camping in 2-4 Survivals sitting in a corner, Desecrate and EV spam until they got carpal tunnel syndrome to warrant extraction?

 

[zehne]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

did peeps actually enjoy camping in 2-4 Survivals sitting in a corner, Desecrate and EV spam until they got carpal tunnel syndrome to warrant extraction?

 

No.  And I even had two different buttons keybound so that I could take turns on punishing them.  (on different hands too).

Edited September 6, 2016 by zehne