Wukong's "hidden" primal fury nerf

[achromos]

I haven't used Wukong in a while, but when I did I noticed that my staff wasn't extending as far as it used to, then I checked my build, and it's capped at 20%. 

 

Was this really necessary?  Wukong can't even utilize Blood Rush, and once the combo's fall off it's not like you keep the staff length as it is.

 

Why remove the ONE fun thing about his ult?  This range nerf is just sad...  Guess I might end up just either going with Vakyr because ironically she has almost as much range and much more damage with Primed Reach on her.  (not quite but it's good enough)

 

The ONLY point to this warframe now, is Defy and even with that, I feel like Valkyr does the job 10x better.

 

:/

Edited August 13, 2016 by achromos

[Gorila_Azul]

My computer doesn't have any Internet right now, so I can't check it by myself, but it definitely sounds like either a bug or a misunderstanding. I highly doubt something of this scope wouldn't be in the build notes.

[achromos]

26 minutes ago, Gorila_Azul said:

My computer doesn't have any Internet right now, so I can't check it by myself, but it definitely sounds like either a bug or a misunderstanding. I highly doubt something of this scope wouldn't be in the build notes.

it isn't in the notes, but... yea his range is capped at 20% dude.  :/

[GrimAtrament]

umm i though it was commen fact not hidden that wukongs staff does not extened as far as the china server one

 

its been like that since wukong came out

Edited August 13, 2016 by hazerddex

[Eldnacpeek]

12 hours ago, hazerddex said:

umm i though it was commen fact not hidden that wukongs staff does not extened as far as the china server one

 

its been like that since wukong came out

 

Not once did OP mention the Chinese Wukong GIFs (it was established a while ago by Rebecca that it received a balance pass for the global build). If he was actually referring to them, there would have been an image reference and caption. OP is referring to the fact Wukong's Primal Fury range bonus cap was originally 200%, but for some unknown reason a recent update made it 20%.

Edited August 14, 2016 by LazerSkink

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

Sounds like a bug to me...

[achromos]

I hope it's a bug.  :(

[(PSN)Deception_Pharo]

Its capped at 200%, and 20% is the starting range cap, so it can be increased with range mods.

[Gorila_Azul]

On 13/08/2016 at 3:26 PM, achromos said:

it isn't in the notes, but... yea his range is capped at 20% dude.  :/

Where did you read that cap? The abilities page on the arsenal doesn't list the range extension cap. Never did.

[PsiWarp]

3 minutes ago, Gorila_Azul said:

Where did you read that cap? The abilities page on the arsenal doesn't list the range extension cap. Never did.

There are tons of abilities with hidden modifiers that aren't shown in the Arsenal. In-game statistics were never complete even before the abilities page got added. Wiki's a more reliable source :)

[Gorila_Azul]

9 minutes ago, PsiWarp said:

There are tons of abilities with hidden modifiers that aren't shown in the Arsenal. In-game statistics were never complete even before the abilities page got added. Wiki's a more reliable source :)

I know. And the wiki still lists a maximum of 200% melee range bonus. I mentioned the arsenal because I wanted to know where the OP arrived at the conclusion that it was capped at 20%, because it sure as hell couldn't be from the wiki.

[achromos]

1 hour ago, Gorila_Azul said:

Where did you read that cap? The abilities page on the arsenal doesn't list the range extension cap. Never did.

In your arsenel, look at the range, notice how it's blue?  Put on some range mods and compare with/without mods.  :/

[Gorila_Azul]

Just now, achromos said:

In your arsenel, look at the range, notice how it's blue?  Put on some range mods and compare with/without mods.  :/

Yeah........... that's not the melee range bonus cap, friend. That's how much it increases with each hit. The cap is still 200%. Check the wiki, not the arsenal.

[achromos]

3 minutes ago, Gorila_Azul said:

Yeah........... that's not the melee range bonus cap, friend. That's how much it increases with each hit. The cap is still 200%. Check the wiki, not the arsenal.

 

Again... with range mods I used to be able to get that to 40%ish  I think I had it at like 42%

[Gorila_Azul]

5 minutes ago, achromos said:

 

Again... with range mods I used to be able to get that to 40%ish  I think I had it at like 42%

...ok? So... it will take more hits to reach the same cap...

Is that what you claim makes the ability not fun?

I mean, for starters, it's hard to notice the range bonus even at its cap, unless maybe if you have a maxed Primed Reach on your melee. And you are saying this ability is pointless based on a supposed nerf (probably also a bug if it's even there) to the thing that affects the ability the least.

If the increase rate is 20%, if it's 40%, even if it's 60%, it doesn't make a difference, because the bonuses will still eventually reach a value equal to or greater than 200%, and that's where they'll stop. Everything the range mods are doing here is decreasing the amount of hits it takes to reach that cap. Without mods, it's a simple ten. If you struggle to keep your combo counter above at least ten, maybe a melee-based frame isn't your style.

[achromos]

6 minutes ago, Gorila_Azul said:

...ok? So... it will take more hits to reach the same cap...

Is that what you claim makes the ability not fun?

I mean, for starters, it's hard to notice the range bonus even at its cap, unless maybe if you have a maxed Primed Reach on your melee. And you are saying this ability is pointless based on a supposed nerf (probably also a bug if it's even there) to the thing that affects the ability the least.

If the increase rate is 20%, if it's 40%, even if it's 60%, it doesn't make a difference, because the bonuses will still eventually reach a value equal to or greater than 200%, and that's where they'll stop. Everything the range mods are doing here is decreasing the amount of hits it takes to reach that cap. Without mods, it's a simple ten. If you struggle to keep your combo counter above at least ten, maybe a melee-based frame isn't your style.

Don't pull the "I'm better then you so I see no issue with the combo system" thing, please?  Can you tell me you've never had someone just nuke a whole room, or Tonkor a whole group infront of you and your combo meter just falls to pieces and with it the length of your Primal fury?  Getting to that cap, which was definately higher then 10, I actually had seen great differences at 2.5x - 3x multipliers in the length.  10 is not hard, no.  But I'd rather be able to build my frame to build up a lot faster than that, so I don't have to worry about the combo system which needs to be a incremental deterioration imo.

So, again, what was the point in making it so that range mods were pointless on Wukong?

 

None of this: "Gid Gud" stuff applies, don't go elitist on me Gorila.

[IceColdHawk]

Is this the thread of the wukong avatars? lol

Also, range nerf? It was capped since wukong released to us as far as i know.

Welp nvm, i think i understood this wrong. If you're certain it's stealth nerfed or bugged, i'd suggest making a bug report.

Edited August 14, 2016 by IceColdHawk

[GinKenshin]

28 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Is this the thread of the wukong avatars? lol

 

Well, only 2 have them, and they have the most posts in this thread :P

[IceColdHawk]

3 minutes ago, Kenshin98 said:

Well, only 2 have them, and they have the most posts in this thread :P

I shall summon @DeMonkey

Let your wukong experience fulfill this thread with knowledge!

[Gorila_Azul]

8 minutes ago, achromos said:

Don't pull the "I'm better then you so I see no issue with the combo system" thing, please?  Can you tell me you've never had someone just nuke a whole room, or Tonkor a whole group infront of you and your combo meter just falls to pieces and with it the length of your Primal fury?  Getting to that cap, which was definately higher then 10, I actually had seen great differences at 2.5x - 3x multipliers in the length.  10 is not hard, no.  But I'd rather be able to build my frame to build up a lot faster than that, so I don't have to worry about the combo system which needs to be a incremental deterioration imo.

So, again, what was the point in making it so that range mods were pointless on Wukong?

 

None of this: "Gid Gud" stuff applies, don't go elitist on me Gorila.

I apologize, I wasn't trying to sound elitist, in fact I wasn't trying to directly adress your skill with the game, or mine. I realize how it may have sounded like that, though, and I'm sorry about that.

What I was trying to say was that the issue we are adressing is a minimum mechanic of how Primal Fury works, and you are defining the entire ability as fun or not based around it. A mechanic that -in my experience- never made itself relevant to the overall gameplay with Wukong.

The problem of nukes and Tonkors is a real one, but it's not just a problem of Wukong or even of melee. It's a problem that damages gameplay in all aspects of the game. Personally, I try to avoid a point in the game where I am building with the liabilities of my teammates in mind. If what other players are doing defines how I'll adjust my playstyle, I might play solo or just with friends whom I can discuss about things like stunlocks and nukes with before playing. That'd be my approach to it, at least.

If by incremental deterioration you mean the length decreasing over time once the combo counter goes down, the way Primal Rage and Berserker work, I agree with you 100% on that one.

As for wether or not there was a difference in how long the staff extended in larger combo counts... we could debate forever on our individual impressions but numbers are numbers. I wish there was a wiggle room for discussing this, I really do. But the bottomline is the limit to the extension has been 200% for months, regardless of how many hits it takes to reach it.

And again, sorry for sounding elitist. Not my intention.

[Eldritchsqueaker]

Honestly I'd just like Primal fury brought on par with Exalted blade, it feels like Wukong's only useful skill is defy sometimes, though I've done some pretty amazing things with cloudwalker before.

[tnccs215]

To be honest, I feel Primal Fury's biggest problem isnt its range, but how short the time frame after the attacks are. With Primed Fury it's borderline impossible to get both the "pause" and "hold" combo, because the time frame in which both actions can be performed is so small that you simply end up starting another first attack, or none at all. It feels clunky and unresponsive, and it's the main reason I simply don't use Primal Fury

[(PSN)Deception_Pharo]

15 hours ago, Gorila_Azul said:

Where did you read that cap? The abilities page on the arsenal doesn't list the range extension cap. Never did.

I believe that cap can be increased with range mods, if you have primed reach on your melee weapon then that doesn't change it but "does" change in-game.

[(PSN)Deception_Pharo]

10 hours ago, tnccs215 said:

To be honest, I feel Primal Fury's biggest problem isnt its range, but how short the time frame after the attacks are. With Primed Fury it's borderline impossible to get both the "pause" and "hold" combo, because the time frame in which both actions can be performed is so small that you simply end up starting another first attack, or none at all. It feels clunky and unresponsive, and it's the main reason I simply don't use Primal Fury

Combo card for PF needs to be tweaked, that's all.

[(PSN)Deception_Pharo]

13 hours ago, Gorila_Azul said:

Yeah........... that's not the melee range bonus cap, friend. That's how much it increases with each hit. The cap is still 200%. Check the wiki, not the arsenal.

That's the starting range not the growth.