Relics and the new void... its unfair and broken.

[morningstar999]

51 minutes ago, (PS4)Tenchi145 said:

There is so much Salt here I could season like four slabs of ribs.  Okay where do I start.

1. It was stated in the developer Forums about how the relics would function.  Each relic from each different era holds a specific set of parts. When a new Prime would be released the oldest prime would be removed. Normally this would be the parts simply removed from the key; instead they remain in the game and only the relics of that era are removed.  This in turn frees up slots in all relic tables allowing new relics to be placed without messing up the ratios. Therefore farming relics holds the same chances it always had.

2. This "unfairness"(yeah air quotations were used) that you are claiming is pretty outrageous because considering everyone starts from scratch sounds pretty darn fair to me.  This gives prime access more appeal and allows the buyers to be special snowflakes for at least a few hours before the grind-build-play rushers get a hold of him.  The claim that 'EVERYONE who didn't BUY PA having to grind new relics is unfair' is blatant entitlement.

Now with those two MAJOR points out the way here's my take on your argument as a whole.  I know that most of the time DE does some silly things to promote buying their products, which they should as they are a company, nitain requirements are some of the most blatant ones I can think of. It should have come as no surprise that this is the route they would have taken considering that Mag prime relics are still in some players inventories even though she is vaulted. If you started grinding relics in hopes that you'd have a head start, that's really tough luck.  I spent all of last week trying to tell people that when the PA dropped that all of the new gear would have their own relics.  They dismissed me stating quote "Everyone knows that Nxy is going to be vaulted so all Nekros stuff will be in her relics." I shook my head and after 2 more days of trying to talk sense into people I gave up because it was pointless.  Now all of that grinding has yielded nothing and they flock to the forums to complain.  For what? That the relics they got are 'useless' or is it because you want just compensation for time YOU wasted willingly? Everyone started with absolutely no relics to farm Nekros and immediately it's unfair? I see no logic to this as considering everyone is starting this grind for the first PA in the relic system(at least on console) from scratch. It makes a whole lotta sense that F2P Tenno all start EQUAL with NO RELICS.  If you want Nekros so bad,so quickly, buy PA, support the devs for the work they do and try not to act like they owe you anything. Yes they deserve criticism on most things, but this is not one of them because EVERYONE is having to hunt these relics.

TL;DR This is fair because everyone has to start over.  Let this be a lesson going forward that each new prime will have its own relics, even the vaulted primes. Also PA is now more appealing so more revenue for the Devs.

most of my thread is about the void and relic farming system as a whole as a whole NOT about farming old relics and hoping they would convert to new ones, in fact i have never gone out of my way to farm relics before today, I already had 80-90% of the stuff before the new void system came out and after doing runs of the new farm and realizing that it was more work and more grind, i stopped bothering. 

4 people spend a relic each VS 1 person spends a key and 4 people get an item  -that is the problem here, combined with the constant farming of void traces to up one relic and then not get the part you want anyway then have to do another 10-15 runs to up one more relic and then fail to get that rare part again. grind grind grind grind, 

then you have to farm more relics on top of all that. just no thank you. covering myself in honey and jumping into a bear enclosure sounds more fun, 

it that works for you thats fine but it's not working for a lot of players. 

yes making things so hard players have no choice but to buy the prime accesses now; but hey least the devs get more money, screw if a large part of the game is becoming broken and hard/dull to play for people. 

[(PSN)Tenchi145]

2 minutes ago, morningstar999 said:

most of my thread is about the void and relic farming system as a whole as a whole NOT about farming old relics and hoping they would convert to new ones, in fact i have never gone out of my way to farm relics before today, I already had 80-90% of the stuff before the new void system came out and after doing runs of the new farm and realizing that it was more work and more grind, i stopped bothering. 

4 people spend a relic each VS 1 person spends a key and 4 people get an item  -that is the problem here, combined with the constant farming of void traces to up one relic and then not get the part you want anyway then have to do another 10-15 runs to up one more relic and then fail to get that rare part again. grind grind grind grind, 

then you have to farm more relics on top of all that. just no thank you. covering myself in honey and jumping into a bear enclosure sounds more fun, 

it that works for you thats fine but it's not working for a lot of players. 

yes making things so hard players have no choice but to buy the prime accesses now; but hey least the devs get more money, screw if a large part of the game is becoming broken and hard/dull to play for people. 

Wait.So you want nothing but positives in the way things work. Okay let me break this down a bit so you can see what happened.

 

Though we did not have much input on this compromise this is what we had; With Void keys the community would have a problem with Keyshare participants dropping out, Having useless drops like other keys and resources in the rotations, being completely at the mercy of rng, long runs that amount to nothing at the end. Technically we traded that for each participant must put up a relic in order to be elgible for a reward(answer to keyshare), gave up multiple items balanced out with higher ducat value might I add. Removal of useless drop gave it up for lower drop rates. A way to influence rng, gave up long grinds in void for passive gathering of traces while running fissure missions.

[(PSN)beberonnie123]

7 hours ago, morningstar999 said:

we should have both ways to earn prime parts, both old and new- not one or the other. taking away choices from your players is wrong.

They promised us less grind but gave us more -instead of earning 1-10 parts (each) for one key we earn 1 piece each for 4 relics -how is this fair? 

you have to grind for void traces over and over -only given a small amount each run (10-20 randomly at the end) and need 100 to make one key give you a slightly better chance at the rare stuff.  (if we had a chance of picking it up like before and a chance of earning more as we went this would be better)

and now they bring out new relics instead of switching around vaulted ones for new ones -so thats even MORE GRIND. 

free to play games generally want you to grind so those in a hurry are more likely to spend money to get what they want quicker whilst still giving people the chance to earn it, which is fair -up until  like Vauban's prime/ the new void  warframre was pretty blanched  -you had to earn stuff but it didn't have to play the same stuff over and over like a chore....

but this is now taking the piss and has taken tedious, repetitive grind to a whole new level. I have spent £££ on warframe but I don't want to have to a prime pack every time a new one comes out -part of earning prime parts is what used to make it fun, you felt like you achieved something -but now it would take me 4 times longer to do so, earning things is no longer fun. 

Its a game not a chore please stop making it like one. 

at this rate warframe will become a pay-to-win game, the fact it isn't is part of what makes war-frame so good but apparently DE is getting greedy. 

 

they need make void traces farmable in the void its self not just relics there you have the balance only thing I'm scared to death of is endo most my builds don't have maxed mods n if they not max then its nothing I'm dreading that day omg

[(PSN)zeratul____12]

7 hours ago, morningstar999 said:

we should have both ways to earn prime parts, both old and new- not one or the other. taking away choices from your players is wrong.

They promised us less grind but gave us more -instead of earning 1-10 parts (each) for one key we earn 1 piece each for 4 relics -how is this fair? 

you have to grind for void traces over and over -only given a small amount each run (10-20 randomly at the end) and need 100 to make one key give you a slightly better chance at the rare stuff.  (if we had a chance of picking it up like before and a chance of earning more as we went this would be better)

and now they bring out new relics instead of switching around vaulted ones for new ones -so thats even MORE GRIND. 

free to play games generally want you to grind so those in a hurry are more likely to spend money to get what they want quicker whilst still giving people the chance to earn it, which is fair -up until  like Vauban's prime/ the new void  warframre was pretty blanched  -you had to earn stuff but it didn't have to play the same stuff over and over like a chore....

but this is now taking the piss and has taken tedious, repetitive grind to a whole new level. I have spent £££ on warframe but I don't want to have to a prime pack every time a new one comes out -part of earning prime parts is what used to make it fun, you felt like you achieved something -but now it would take me 4 times longer to do so, earning things is no longer fun. 

Its a game not a chore please stop making it like one. 

at this rate warframe will become a pay-to-win game, the fact it isn't is part of what makes war-frame so good but apparently DE is getting greedy. 

 

They should of had it so you could earn Prime parts from both Relics and the Void, with just relics you can choose what you want a better chance at getting.

[(PSN)McDrewski]

speaking of unfair and broken...my past two relics I have added one hundred traces to and they both had their lights appear on the relic, yet it still reads as intact and doesn't show an improved drop rate for the rares...this is so damn frustrating

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

47 minutes ago, (PS4)McDrewski said:

speaking of unfair and broken...my past two relics I have added one hundred traces to and they both had their lights appear on the relic, yet it still reads as intact and doesn't show an improved drop rate for the rares...this is so damn frustrating

Was it Neo V3 by any chance? 3 of us had this issue only with that relic (I added a bug report). 

[(PSN)McDrewski]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

Was it Neo V3 by any chance? 3 of us had this issue only with that relic (I added a bug report). 

yep, neo v3...at least I am not alone lol

[Keruvinde]

If you think about it the grind sort of evens out actually. Before you had key sharing and you had the do the same level lots of times to get the piece you wanted and everyone got the same thing. Now we just farm the relic, and if you get a party together you quadruple your chances of getting the prime part you want. I don't see what the problem here is.

Being able to hoard keys was cool and all but then all you had was large groups grinding the void for days on end. I watched one guy try and get vauban parts on twitch and the entire day he didn't get one. Also even if you don't have the relic and someone else does you can still get the part too. Benefits everywhere as far as I can see.

 

EDIT* also before we had to wait for proper reward table too, now we go in, do mission get out in less than 10 minutes.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Keruvinde

[(PSN)Tenchi145]

5 minutes ago, Keruvinde said:

-snippet-

THANK YOU!!!!

[Keruvinde]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Tenchi145 said:

THANK YOU!!!!

no prob :p

[(PSN)Tenchi145]

Alright nuff of this My free zone is about to start gonna grind this Tigris before bed.

[blackheartstar_pc]

Old long endless Void was a much better way to farm parts. Even if you went 40min in a T3 Survival and only got one Prime part and it wasn't even one you wanted or needed at least you had fun trying. This new Relic system is boring from start to finish. I do not understand how anyone considers Relics to be a worthwhile reward to earn or to engage in.

[ravend]

8 hours ago, morningstar999 said:

up until the new system i didn't find it that hard. and I could key share with friends -only bonus is now is you get to pick out a reward. (but only one 1 and it'll cost everyone a relic) 

again I don't think they should get rid of the new void rather give us the option of earning prime parts in another way; bring back something akin to the old void. 

more choice is better for everyone. 

 

Sorry, but spending 20 to 40 minutes or more for a rotation C drop was nuts. on average took a month to get a full prime warframe if you were unlucky.  So lets break down the new system verses the old one.

Old system

1) Farm for keys in different area's

2) get a group together

3) rotation C hunting, time every 20 min off a much bigger loot drop table

4) no choice in what you get

5) easily leechable

New system

1) Farm for keys in different area's

2) get a group

3) 10 min missions (survival/defense only), less for other types

4) 4 different choices to pick from each time of getting something you want.

5) not leechable

 

So by looking at differences you can see that its less grindy then you think it is. key/relic farming is the same yes, the actual missions is far less time. you get to pick which reward you want to get. Yes the element of Rngesus is there and cant be removed. crappy luck by thi name and its sucks. personally within the first week of the new system i have managed to get prime peices that i was missing to complete 7 different primes.

[Taramafor]

I both agree and disagree. I agree with the fact that the older system should remain implemented because it is fun to do them while getting what you want as well.

However, I disagree that this is longer. Certainty more tedious but not longer. Want an axi prime? Do a quick relic run. 9/10 times I don't upgrade the relics because I'm only after specific things. And I have enough for the times I do do that. What's quicker, a half hour+ void defence for 4-6 items or a quick 2-5 min relic run with a drop each time?

The problem is that relic runs are faster overall. As a result this means people will do them because it takes less time. Because greed beats fun unfortunately. So there's no reason to have prime drops in void anymore. That's the reason it isn't in void now.

What's needed is for later defence/survival times to have more stuff worth dropping. Add tiers D and F and make them nitain and formas and other good stuff. Then everyone would win out.

Also, make relic missions different. good idea, horrible executed. We need to stand our ground against relentless assaults once more. What's the point of having void enemies if you just bypass them and capture the target/rescue the hostage/kill the targets? Little silly if you ask me. Make the void enemies themselves part of missions. Don't just plop them in. Maybe even have void bosses.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Taramafor

[ThunderZsolt]

9 hours ago, Phatose said:

Meh.  The old system was every bit as insanely repetitive.  Always was - even the first ever released primes were crazy grindy.  At least the scenery changes now. 

problem is, that we have now another gring-wall built in, the void traces.

intact relics are worse than the old keys, and even the radiants have only a slightly better chance to drop rares. In the old system you only had to hoard keys, and then rush those (except survival). Now you hoard relics, grind traces to make them radiant, and then rush them. Even if the old keys had a rare drop chance similar to the flawless relics, it's still 2-3x more missions run/drop

[Hypernaut1]

i dont get why people say we are "wasting keys"....When farming for new primes, no one really cares for the other parts anyway. If you do a key share, it was 4 chances/4 missions at getting ducats unless the group got lucky. Since Ducats prices is relative to the amount of crap we have- you shouldn't worry about getting trash parts. The relic system basically gives us 4 chances in 1 mission. This is FAR better than what it was before. It basically condenses key shares into one mission, and you dont need rotation C on top of that. Not only that, you get to increase your drop chances as well.

The biggest set back with the relic system is that now EVERYONE starts from square 1 when a new prime hits. This is by design. Maybe DE doesnt want hardcore farmers to have an immeasurable head start anymore. The plus side to this is that we dont have to rush to farm vaulted items anymore. 

Edited August 24, 2016 by Hypernaut1

[dual1020]

DE bring back the old void, while combining the new relic system. For example: Tower 4 Survival Type C or Tower 3 Exterminate Type B. My idea is basically the new relic system but basically in the old void where each new key contains parts of the new primes, but you have the benefit of grabbing more than 1 prime item in endless missions, which the relic system lacks.

Considering that Nekros prime came out, DE is probably going to add new relics for each new prime access, i dont see why DE couldn't have done this before with the old void.

[(PSN)Dark-TailedFox]

Uh-huh...so while you think of the system as "oh so terrible" and "DE is getting too greedy for me". I'll sit here farming resources for my Nekros Neuroptics, while the chassis and systems build, while I play around for the blueprint to drop.

The game is only a grind if you let it become that in your perspective.

I don't see it as a grind, more of a time investment more than anything else while not being narrow minded on the point by point objectives which leads to "this is too much grind" then into "burnout", and subsequently "developer delusion".

And this is coming from someone who used to run raids (survivals) for as long as possible before leaving just because I was bored.

[(PSN)adrian80]

10 hours ago, WolfTitan said:

... 

• Rinse and repeat.

...

 

 

[Taramafor]

Quote

I don't see it as a grind, more of a time investment

Sorry, but I have to comment on this. Investing time to obtain a result is indeed a grind. You grind to get a result. That's the very definition of time investment. It might be a small grind in your case but it's still a grind.

Also RNG might be playing in your favour.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Taramafor

[dEjAvU5566]

just let Void eximus unit has a chance to drop relics

 

Relic System keep unchanged, void now becomes meaningful again.

 

Problem solved.

[Vyra]

new system is just sick, old was better

[Nijyumensou]

3 hours ago, morningstar999 said:

most of my thread is about the void and relic farming system as a whole as a whole NOT about farming old relics and hoping they would convert to new ones, in fact i have never gone out of my way to farm relics before today, I already had 80-90% of the stuff before the new void system came out and after doing runs of the new farm and realizing that it was more work and more grind, i stopped bothering. 

4 people spend a relic each VS 1 person spends a key and 4 people get an item  -that is the problem here, combined with the constant farming of void traces to up one relic and then not get the part you want anyway then have to do another 10-15 runs to up one more relic and then fail to get that rare part again. grind grind grind grind, 

then you have to farm more relics on top of all that. just no thank you. covering myself in honey and jumping into a bear enclosure sounds more fun, 

it that works for you thats fine but it's not working for a lot of players. 

yes making things so hard players have no choice but to buy the prime accesses now; but hey least the devs get more money, screw if a large part of the game is becoming broken and hard/dull to play for people. 

If you don't like the changes or can't accept it, move on.No one is forcing you to stay.
Again,You don't represent the majority but can only be responsible for your own opinion.
 

Edited August 24, 2016 by Nijyumensou

[Taramafor]

15 minutes ago, Nijyumensou said:

If you don't like the changes or can't accept it, move on.No one is forcing you to stay.
Again,You don't represent the majority but can only be responsible for your own opinion.
 

And yet you tell someone to move on if they happen to like everything else about the game. Are you trying to kill the playerbase? It's called criticism. DE wants to know if relic runs are working out for players or not. To know if it's fun or not. If it turns out it's not I'm sure they'll do something about it.

No feedback=no changes to the game. I came back to this game because it changed from how it used to be. That's not a comment about relic runs btw, that's other stuff. My point here is that change happens. And when it does it doesn't mean people have to like it. That's not "being responsible of your own opinion". That's DE being responsible for changing things, be it for better or worse. Opinions aren't something that can be controlled, putting in effort to make something change does. I don't like archwing but I stick around.

To cut a long story short: When something changes you don't have to like it. And if you don't like it the last thing you want to be told is to move on if you like everything else. That's actively trying to kill off the player base. That means one less person that could be buying stuff and supporting DE. That makes Warframe stop being played if it keeps happening.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Taramafor

[Nijyumensou]

5 minutes ago, Taramafor said:

And yet you tell someone to move on if they happen to like everything else about the game. Are you trying to kill the playerbase? It's called criticism. DE wants to know if relic runs are working out for players or not. To know if it's fun or not. If it turns out it's not I'm sure they'll do something about it.

No feedback=no changes to the game. I came back to this game because it changed from how it used to be. That's not a comment about relic runs btw, that's other stuff. My point here is that change happens. And when it does it doesn't mean people have to like it. That's not "being responsible of your own opinion". That's DE being responsible for changing things, be it for better or worse. Opinions aren't something that can be controlled, putting in effort to make something change does.

To cut a long story short: When something changes you don't have to like it. And if you don't like it the last thing you want to be told is to move on if you like everything else. That's actively trying to kill off the player base. That means one less person that could be buying stuff and supporting DE. That makes Warframe stop being played if it keeps happening.

you have a problem with my opinion? Firstly, learn the difference between a rant and a constructive feedback which should be written on Feedback Section of Warframe. ( unless you can't tell that this is the general discussion section)

Edited August 24, 2016 by Nijyumensou