PublikDomain Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 Remove the ability to upgrade Relics. Make the Rare item drop chance is the same as it was with Void Keys (~6%) and rebalance Uncommon and Common drops as appropriate. Why? Void Relics are consumed at a much higher rate than Keys, and grinding Relics is tedious, repetitive, and boring. The best drop chances are in the range of 10-15% per A/B/C Interception rotation. That's 7-10 rotations at a minimum of 3 minutes per rotation, per Relic, or somewhere around 30 minutes per Relic. This seems to be about right, yesterday I afk-grinded Gaia, Earth by myself for several hours and obtained under a dozen useful Relics. I don't know about Excavation chances, they aren't that much better but I find Excavation missions even more tedious than Interception or Defense, despite probably being quicker. This grindy, boring task must be repeated every 3 months because old Relics do not reroll when new content is added, unlike Keys. Because of the tedium and the low acquisition rate, it feels like you're wasting your Relic if you don't upgrade to Radiant (as long as you're going for non-common drops). In order to upgrade these relics to Radiant, you need to gather Void Traces. These drop in bundles of 6-30 per Fissure mission. To achieve a Radiant relic you need to run 4-17 of these missions, 6 on average, per Relic. Why's that particularly bad, aside from the sheer number of additional missions you need to run as a prerequisite? If you run a fissure mission without a Relic, you get yelled at and people quit. If you run a fissure mission with a Relic you don't want to spend, it feels like you're wasting it. Your only option is to find a group grinding Traces (and hope they're OK with you bringing nothing), waste your stockpile, or play solo. Playing missions solo is boring. If I wanted to play alone I'd play No Man's Sky. Once you've grinded out a Relic and grinded out the Traces for Radiant, you have to find a relicshare group or waste your Radiant in a public game. My experience with these has been mixed. I'm usually able to get a relicshare party together, and I haven't yet had someone try and sneak through the wrong Relic. I have, however, experienced a number of lethal host migrations and other shenanigans that make keeping a relicshare together a complete pain. Even once you've got the party together, your chances to get the rare item are still only about 34%, and it just feels miserable to get 4 Fang Blades in a Radiant relicshare. You may have to go through this miserable process 3-6 times. By removing Traces and improving the base chances there is no middle step between "getting a Relic" and "running a Fissure". The drop chances are the same as they were pre-SotR when playing solo, but can still be improved by partying up and being social. Finding a relicshare would also be easier since the only requirement is a matching Relic type. And the best part is, when you inevitably don't get what you were looking for, at least you didn't waste an extra hour grinding for it. What about Void Traces? Make them transmutable into Relics, with each era costing more Traces. Make them worth Ducats, Credits, and/or Endo. Use them in crafting. There are plenty of things to use them for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcl_Blue Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 Or you could just not farm Traces and try your luck with RNG. Myself, I like being able to improve the odds of getting what I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kracken Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 you can improve the chance even further by playing with full party that have the same relict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DontKnowMe Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 Void traces are fine. The inconsistency in the amount you get is the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
------Solo------ Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 You need 2 runs to get 100+ traces thats like +-5 minutes work, radiant relics give you 10% chance not 6%, even if the difference is small still its 4%. Farming void traces is easy and i see no point in removing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyravain Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 How about... we let the system stay as-is and buff the drop rate of traces? That seems to be the majority of the community's complaints. Personally, I like the system. I get my primes as I always did (and seriously, how long will it take you -or any player that's been around for more than a couple of months- to burn through hundreds of Lith keys?) and get a nice boost for when I want to get something to round up a set. I went from having, maybe, 2-3 prime sets in warframe.market up to an average of 12. Most of which I cycle weekly. And, even if you say 'I'm not a vet, I don't have everything', the prices have dropped dramatically. Trin Prime set for 60p? Remember the previous price of 250? See Ash Prime Set for 120p? Remember when it was 450? In other words; I'm okay with the new system. The market prices have dropped, I can bring along friends to farm old primes they've missed, I get to have a headstart when getting the new primes. Nah, I'm good. Stay as is, just fix it to be more interesting and we'll all be golden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lijka Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 48 minutes ago, PrimeDCookieMonstah said: You need 2 runs to get 100+ traces I'd love to know how. I get between 8 and 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PublikDomain Posted August 28, 2016 Author Share Posted August 28, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mcl_BlueMadness said: Or you could just not farm Traces and try your luck with RNG. Myself, I like being able to improve the odds of getting what I want. The chances for rares without additional effort is 2% (compared to 5.84% with Keys), and no one will join a relicshare if it isn't Radiant. You either submit to the triple-grind or submit to the double-grind twice as hard and hope you get lucky. Neither sounds like a desirable case. Increasing the base chance back to where it was and removing an extra layer of grind sounds preferable. 59 minutes ago, Kracken said: you can improve the chance even further by playing with full party that have the same relict. Which requires that you find a radiant share and do your 6-17 prerequisite missions. No one advertises or joins a non-radiant share unless it's for a new common part. Check Recruiting chat, it's Radiant share or bust. 59 minutes ago, PrimeDCookieMonstah said: You need 2 runs to get 100+ traces thats like +-5 minutes work, radiant relics give you 10% chance not 6%, even if the difference is small still its 4%. Farming void traces is easy and i see no point in removing them. Traces drop from 6-30 per mission, with 18 being the average. Unless you mean using Kavats, which not everyone has or want to use. My problem with grinding traces is not that it's hard, but that it's incredibly boring and tedious. 30 minutes ago, Lyravain said: In other words; I'm okay with the new system. The market prices have dropped, I can bring along friends to farm old primes they've missed, I get to have a headstart when getting the new primes. Nah, I'm good. Stay as is, just fix it to be more interesting and we'll all be golden. I'm kinda confused. Under the new system your friends need to bring their own Relics, and no one can have a head start because there are new Relics every 3 months. The market prices have declined heavily, making it harder to get plat without buying it from DE. What about that is good? Edited August 28, 2016 by PublikDomain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
------Solo------ Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Lijka said: I'd love to know how. I get between 8 and 20. 43 minutes ago, PublikDomain said: Traces drop from 6-30 per mission, with 18 being the average. Unless you mean using Kavats, which not everyone has or want to use. My problem with grinding traces is not that it's hard, but that it's incredibly boring and tedious. Without booster and kavat sure its boring as hell since you have to grind your life till you cap. I personally get a booster when i want to farm prime parts so that i have my time to ease the grinding process of void traces. Note: Only when i decided that i want to farm prime parts that are rare. And only then i buy a booster to grind for Void Traces, since its the only way to farm them easily. Edited August 28, 2016 by PrimeDCookieMonstah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimAtrament Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 ... so to sum up your post screw making farming easy MORE GRIND! because everyone Loves that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyravain Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 3 hours ago, PublikDomain said: I'm kinda confused. Under the new system your friends need to bring their own Relics, and no one can have a head start because there are new Relics every 3 months. The market prices have declined heavily, making it harder to get plat without buying it from DE. What about that is good? They can bring whatever relic they want, because, unless you missed it they can choose the reward you rolled. In other words; they can carry their freshly-aquired relics, while I bring my old Vaulted Relic in, which by then I'll have maxed out (no point in not maximizing my choices, yeah?). The prices have declined, meaning you don't have to wait for a 75% discount to actually be able to afford something in the market. It's far friendlier to the newcomers who want to get something, but see prices of upwards 1kplat and freak out. You say it's bad, but I say this; the new, lower prices, mean that conceivably, both vets and newcomers would 'have' to buy platinum, rather than just the newcomers, thus splitting the economic 'weight'. After all, if, as you said, it's harder to get plat from trades, and you really want something, you'd have to purchase platinum to supplement whatever you're lacking from funds traded for. Only, in the old system, only the newcomer had to buy, and buy a lot. As a newcomer you had to buy the 100$ package to be able to get a sizeable amount of plat, since the prices were so high. This way, they can make do with a 20$ package for the newcomer and another 20$ for the vet. It's kinda late so I'm probably not explaining this right, however I'll try to sum up; it's better if the cost is split, because it doesn't appear to be as big. 20$ for two people each is much easier to be paid than one of them paying 40$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lijka Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 18 hours ago, PrimeDCookieMonstah said: Without booster and kavat sure its boring as hell since you have to grind your life till you cap. I personally get a booster when i want to farm prime parts so that i have my time to ease the grinding process of void traces. Note: Only when i decided that i want to farm prime parts that are rare. And only then i buy a booster to grind for Void Traces, since its the only way to farm them easily. How do kavats influence it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
------Solo------ Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Lijka said: How do kavats influence it? Charm mod. Its a buff. Edited August 29, 2016 by PrimeDCookieMonstah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)SeekerLoki Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 9 minutes ago, Lijka said: How do kavats influence it? The charm mod from a Smeeta can double the traces you get. Stack that with a booster and you can get traces very quickly. For me, I think one simple change would greatly improve the trace grind. Traces should scale with era. Something like: Lith 10-15 traces, meso 15-20 traces, neo 20-25 traces, and Axi 25-30 traces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insizer Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 Lets not remove traces and address the actual problem. That you get too few traces per fissure mission, which you can play without relics in order to farm traces. I hated the void drop chances as they sucked horribly and made me want to throw my head through my screen. The fact you can improve the chances to 10% is great imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lijka Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 18 hours ago, PrimeDCookieMonstah said: Charm mod. Its a buff. 18 hours ago, (PS4)Loki1211 said: The charm mod from a Smeeta can double the traces you get. Stack that with a booster and you can get traces very quickly. Much appreciated :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom_Bunny Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Increase the minimum amount of void traces you can receive based on level difficulty. Hand out void trace bundles in actual void missions or endless fissure missions. At the end of the match each player can reward 5 traces instead of 1. Any of these would decrease the amount of relics burned through by players allowing them to actually save some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)manila_X Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 On 8/28/2016 at 0:07 PM, (PS4)DontKnowMe said: Void traces are fine. The inconsistency in the amount you get is the problem. I agree with this one, there is no sure way to get 30-40+ a run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)XXPsychosisX187 Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 They need to fix the void relics to drop what it says it will drop no matter who is using what relic and make missions drop more void traces so they can be upgraded i have done multiple relics and not gotten what it said it would drop and thats annoying i hear people angry about this every game please fix the relic system so it drops what its supposed to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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