Sweeping Serration vs Blaze on the Tigris Prime

[(PSN)joshw1400]

When I get the tigris prime, it will have Primed point blank, hell's chamber, seeking fury, and all the status mods. But there's one space left and I don't know what I would put there. Both increase the tigris's damage, so I was wondering which one you would use?

And btw, don't tel me that 120% ips mods aren't good. They're good on certain weapons. 

 

Edited August 30, 2016 by (PS4)joshw1400
A video.

[Dragazer]

Sweeping serration for more frequent slash procs.

[Inarticulate]

Depends on the enemy you are fighting and the elemental combo you are using.

Sweeping Serration for Radiation-Viral. Charged Shell or Contagious Spread for Corrosive-Blast.

[NobleParadox96]

for my tigris p build... i added all 4 element + status mods and multishot to go over 100% status (ran radiation and viral)

i added sweeping serration because with the viral proc cutting enemy hp in half, the slash proc and dmg from sweeping serration was enough to finish the enemy.

don't forget to add primed point blank for a damage boost

[TrickshotMcGee]

Depends on whether you want more status damage or more raw damage. 

Blaze would boost whatever fire-based status you've got by quite a bit, and everything else by 60%, whereas Sweeping Serration would only boost Slash damage. However, that makes for much more powerful procs. 

Personal preference, really. Once you get to levels of damage that are this high, it doesn't really matter. I'd go for slash, however, because that's universally useful, especially if you have 100% chance to proc it every shot.

[SillyCowsy]

Why not both?

Instead of scattering inferno just put Blaze in and then add in sweeping serration in that last slot.

If it is because you'd rather not put a few forma in the weapon then I can understand..

I'm lying, I really don't understand why one wouldn't make an attempt to invest all they can into a weapon/warframe they like...

This coming from a person with 10 formas in a normal Trinity, 8 formas in a sheev, 7 formas in a Dera Vandal, 6 Formas in a Panthera, 5 formas in a Sancti Castanas, 4 Formas in a Paracyst, and various other personal choices based on a combination of gimmicks and aesthetics.

[(PSN)Elctrcstel]

i have 2 builds i planned on trying when i got home. one that has blaze AND Sweeping Serration and 98.6% status and another that has blaze +4 dual stat mods for 100% status. there is about a 4000dmg difference between the two builds.

its all about having fun man/girl. find what works for you and roll with it

Edited August 30, 2016 by (PS4)Elctrcstel

[Inarticulate]

3 minutes ago, Laisha said:

Why not both?

Instead of scattering inferno just put Blaze in and then add in sweeping serration in that last slot.

If it is because you'd rather not put a few forma in the weapon then I can understand..

That is a terrible idea.

Removing Scattering Inferno drops your status chance from 100% per pellet to 20% per pellet.

[tifanator]

4 minutes ago, Laisha said:

Why not both?

Instead of scattering inferno just put Blaze in and then add in sweeping serration in that last slot.

If it is because you'd rather not put a few forma in the weapon then I can understand..

 

  Hide contents

I'm lying, I really don't understand why one wouldn't make an attempt to invest all they can into a weapon/warframe they like...

This coming from a person with 10 formas in a normal Trinity, 8 formas in a sheev, 7 formas in a Dera Vandal, 6 Formas in a Panthera, 5 formas in a Sancti Castanas, 4 Formas in a Paracyst, and various other personal choices based on a combination of gimmicks and aesthetics.

 

Removing Scattering Inferno would put your status chance below 100%, which is kind of the point of Tigris Prime. 

[Dragazer]

7 minutes ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

Depends on whether you want more status damage or more raw damage. 

Blaze would boost whatever fire-based status you've got by quite a bit, and everything else by 60%, whereas Sweeping Serration would only boost Slash damage. However, that makes for much more powerful procs. 

Personal preference, really. Once you get to levels of damage that are this high, it doesn't really matter. I'd go for slash, however, because that's universally useful, especially if you have 100% chance to proc it every shot.

That's actually a bit inaccurate, Sweeping Serration has no effect on the dmg of slash procs, only the frequency of the proc occurring per pellet. Proc dmg is only influenced by base dmg mods such as point blank or blaze.

In my testing Sweeping serration seems better despite the loss in proc dmg due to the more frequent slash procs.

[SillyCowsy]

27 minutes ago, Inarticulate said:

That is a terrible idea.

Removing Scattering Inferno drops your status chance from 100% per pellet to 20% per pellet.

Ah, so you want status over damage. I see I see. Then go with blaze since just increasing slash damage would just increase slash proc chance(and damage).

I, personally, do not see status as something that matters in the least bit on any weapon/warframe at all. Sure they have neat little buffs here and there but ultimately unless there is an event that gives all mobs a serious health buff or just an insane amount of resistance to damage and warframe powers then...well status wouldn't matter to me in that situation either..

To me, it is a nice thing to have..but I'm just gonna brute-force my way like I always do.

[TrickshotMcGee]

1 hour ago, Dragazer said:

Sweeping Serration has no effect on the dmg of slash procs, only the frequency of the proc occurring per pellet.

I'll have to read up on that calculation a bit again. Thank you for the correction. 

[Inarticulate]

5 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

In my testing Sweeping serration seems better despite the loss in proc dmg due to the more frequent slash procs.

Here's the math:

The build is (Primed) Point Blank, Hell's Chamber, Seeking Fury, all 4 60% status-elemental mods. Adding Blaze or Sweeping Serration in the last slot looks like this:

With Point Blank (not Primed Point Blank), adding Blaze increases your Slash proc damage by 31.6%, but decreases your Slash proc chance by 8.6% (relative, not absolute), resulting in a total increase of 20.3% Slash proc damage.

With Primed Point Blank, adding Blaze increases your Slash proc damage by 22.6%, but decreases your Slash proc chance by 8.6%, resulting in a total increase of 12.1% Slash proc damage.

With either Point Blank or Primed Point Blank, adding Sweeping Serration increases your Slash proc chance by 37.5%, resulting in a total increase of 37.5% Slash proc damage.

[Inarticulate]

5 minutes ago, Laisha said:

Ah, so you want status over damage. I see I see. Then go with blaze since just increasing slash damage would just increase slash proc chance(and damage).

If you play solo, with public matchmaking, or with pre-made groups without 4 Corrosive Projection, a 100% status build will trump a raw damage build for armored enemies at sortie levels and higher.

Against enemies at lower levels, either build is going to be destroying everything regardless.

[taiiat]

if Enemies you're shooting at are weak to Slash Damage and/or if you have high Status (such as 96%+ for a Shotgun), then Slash will be useful.
just note as always, that only base Slash Damage is counted for the DoT - Slash Mods won't increase the strength of the DoT, only increase how often you get Slash Status.
(it's already pretty heavily weighted towards Slash Damage so using a Slash Mod to change weighting may be excessive - and getting an Impact hit in some Shots could actually prove useful)

elsewise, Blaze will deal more Damage. and since it adds Base Damage, Slash Status Strength will increase.
you'll have a fun decision to make there. both might be the best option for Strength + volume of Status instances. maybe.

Edited August 30, 2016 by taiiat

[Dragazer]

30 minutes ago, taiiat said:

if Enemies you're shooting at are weak to Slash Damage and/or if you have high Status (such as 96%+ for a Shotgun), then Slash will be useful.
just note as always, that only base Slash Damage is counted for the DoT - Slash Mods won't increase the strength of the DoT, only increase how often you get Slash Status.
(it's already pretty heavily weighted towards Slash Damage so using a Slash Mod to change weighting may be excessive - and getting an Impact hit in some Shots could actually prove useful)

elsewise, Blaze will deal more Damage. and since it adds Base Damage, Slash Status Strength will increase.
you'll have a fun decision to make there. both might be the best option for Strength + volume of Status instances. maybe.

Its not just base slash damage that influences slash proc dmg, but base dmg all together (All 3 ips). 

In my play testing and Inarticulate's math, Sweeping serration was shown to increase overall dmg done by slash procs due to its increased frequency.

Blaze may increase increase the dmg done by the procs, but it also reduces the chance of slash proc due to the additional fire element (This becomes more apparent when you have primed point blank)

In your typical radiation+viral build, adding blaze will increase your chances of radiation procing and lower the chances for viral and slash to proc, this is bad because radiation procs have no benefit from stacking, same goes with corrosive+blast in blast's case.

Simply put it, the dmg increase of Blaze doesn't make up for the loss in the amount of slash procs.

Edited August 30, 2016 by Dragazer

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, Dragazer said:

Blaze may increase increase the dmg done by the procs, but it also reduces the chance of slash proc due to the additional fire element (This becomes more apparent when you have primed point blank)

it makes some difference, but it's not life changing.

the likeliness to get Slash Status vs the next most likely Status Effect:

base 166% more likely
Blaze 78% more likely
Sweeping 486% more likely
both 291% more likely

Blaze does only increase the Strength of Slash Status by ~23%, which isn't super huge. i wouldn't use Blaze on its own here, but both has some serious merit.

[Inarticulate]

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

it makes some difference, but it's not life changing.

the likeliness to get Slash Status vs the next most likely Status Effect:

base 166% more likely
Blaze 78% more likely
Sweeping 486% more likely
both 291% more likely

Blaze does only increase the Strength of Slash Status by ~23%, which isn't super huge. i wouldn't use Blaze on its own here, but both has some serious merit.

The likelihood of getting a Slash proc relative to the next most likely proc is not important. Hek, even the likelihood of getting a Slash proc relative to all other procs is more relevant. However, what's most important is the actual distribution of procs per shot.

The ideal distribution for the Radiation-Viral build is exactly 1 Viral proc per shot and everything else in Slash. Obviously, that's not possible, but we can get close. Coincidentally, the Sweeping Serration build looks like this on average (17.6 pellets total):

• 12.1 Slash procs
• 2.1 Radiation procs
• 2.1 Viral procs (88.8% chance to proc at least one per shot)

Blaze looks like this:

• 8.0 Slash procs
• 4.5 Radiation procs
• 3.0 Viral procs (96.3% chance to proc at least one per shot)

With Blaze, you've given up a third of your Slash procs for a mere 12% boost in damage per Slash proc (with Primed Point Blank). The boost to the chance per shot of Viral procs is nice, but not a game changer.

If you are running Corrosive-Blast, it's actually best to build for more Corrosive procs. The decrease in the enemy's armor from Corrosive procs will result in the Tigris Prime's direct damage building up very quickly, which supplements the damage from the Slash procs. With either Charged Shell or Contagious Spread:

• 7.7 Slash procs
• 5.1 Corrosive procs
• 2.9 Blast procs (95.8% chance to proc at least one per shot)

Five Corrosive procs is a pretty big deal. That's a 76.3% reduction in armor. The average of 10 Corrosive procs from a duplex shot is a 94.4% reduction in armor. At levels at the top of the Simulacrum and higher, this pulls ahead of the Radiation-Viral build because it takes advantage of not only the abundant Slash procs, but also the absurdly high damage the Tigris Prime does against enemies with low armor.

Edited August 30, 2016 by Inarticulate

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, Inarticulate said:

The likelihood of getting a Slash proc relative to the next most likely proc is not important.

it's all that matters, because we're dealing with 100% Status either way. so all there is to work with is how likely each Pellet is to be Slash Status vs whatever else it might be.

 

we're now changing the rules as we feel like in order to always create a correct situation - okay.
the entire Thread is about Slash Status. otherwise we wouldn't be choosing between a Slash Mod for more Slash Status, or more Elemental Damage.
Elemental Status is certainly useful but not what this Thread is discussing, due to the Mods in question.

unless the OP feels this isn't where the Thread is supposed to be going, as we cannot know for certainty how wide the goal is, and what results it might exclude.

[Inarticulate]

1 minute ago, taiiat said:

it's all that matters, because we're dealing with 100% Status either way. so all there is to work with is how likely each Pellet is to be Slash Status vs whatever else it might be.

Which is where absolute probabilities are better than relative probabilities. It's much more meaningful to say that you have a 50% chance to proc Slash per pellet than to say you have a 500% greater chance to proc Slash than the next highest proc per pellet. The former says that on average 50% of your 17.6 pellets will proc Slash. The latter tells you absolutely nothing of value ("You proc 6 times more Slash than the next highest proc." "What's the next highest proc?" "Dunno." "What's the chance of the next highest proc?" "Dunno." "How many Slash procs am I gonna get?" "Dunno." "How about the other 3 possible procs?" "Dunno.").

6 minutes ago, taiiat said:

we're now changing the rules as we feel like in order to always create a correct situation - okay.
the entire Thread is about Slash Status. otherwise we wouldn't be choosing between a Slash Mod for more Slash Status, or more Elemental Damage.
Elemental Status is certainly useful but not what this Thread is discussing, due to the Mods in question.

unless the OP feels this isn't where the Thread is supposed to be going, as we cannot know for certainty how wide the goal is, and what results it might exclude.

The OP asked whether Sweeping Serration or Blaze is better. I'm answering whether Sweeping Serration or Blaze is better.

My additional comments on the Corrosive build stem from the fact that both of the given choices are inferior to another possible choice on the condition that you are using Corrosive-Blast instead of Radiation-Viral. Since the OP did not specify the particular elemental combination, I considered it fair game.

[taiiat]

16 minutes ago, Inarticulate said:

My additional comments on the Corrosive build stem from the fact that both of the given choices are inferior to another possible choice on the condition that you are using Corrosive-Blast instead of Radiation-Viral. Since the OP did not specify the particular elemental combination, I considered it fair game.

we also don't have intended usage scenario outlined i guess, so i guess we've all jumped the gun.
taking a step back, for all we know raw Damage per Shot could be all that's being asked about, if Elemental Status is strictly preferred for things other than direct Damage per Shot in conjunction with raw Damage per Shot...

yeah, we've all jumped the gun, haven't we.

[(PSN)joshw1400]

Thanks on the responses guys. I think I've decided on sweeping serration. Cheers

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

Neither

I prefer tactical pump.

Pull that reload speed down a little bit since most things die in one shot regardless of if you have either of those damage mods equipped.