Nullifiers the death of WF

[Marine027]

On 30.8.2016 at 8:41 PM, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

You know recasting powers isn't free, right?

Anyway, nullies should only suppress your power when in the bubble instead of cancelling them, i.e., if I kill a nullifier then my bubble should go back to normal without me needing to recast it.  That would fix so many of the issues with them.

Thats what you have goddamn energy refill equipment for. USE IT.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

3 minutes ago, Marine027 said:

Thats what you have goddamn energy refill equipment for. USE IT.

Those aren't free either. 

[Phoenixian_Ultimatum]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Those aren't free either. 

So, what I'm getting is that you want everything handed to you for free, and you don't want to work for anything.

Recasting Snow Globe due to some Nullifiers isn't that expensive. Crafting a few Energy restores isn't expensive or resource heavy, nor the resources that rare. I've played a lot of missions since the Nullifier change and I can honestly say that I haven't noticed a significant difference to how they were before.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

8 minutes ago, Ninjahunter8020 said:

So, what I'm getting is that you want everything handed to you for free, and you don't want to work for anything.

Recasting Snow Globe due to some Nullifiers isn't that expensive. Crafting a few Energy restores isn't expensive or resource heavy, nor the resources that rare. I've played a lot of missions since the Nullifier change and I can honestly say that I haven't noticed a significant difference to how they were before.

Just because I don't want you to steal my wallet doesn't mean I want everything for free.  And no, just working for more money is not a valid excuse. 

[Phoenixian_Ultimatum]

Just now, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Just because I don't want you to steal my wallet doesn't mean I want everything for free.  And no, just working for more money is not a valid excuse. 

I didn't realize that Polymer Bundles and Nano Spores (along with a chunk of credits) were so valuable as to be classified as "Stealing your wallet" Would have sworn those were pretty common resources.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

3 minutes ago, Ninjahunter8020 said:

I didn't realize that Polymer Bundles and Nano Spores (along with a chunk of credits) were so valuable as to be classified as "Stealing your wallet" Would have sworn those were pretty common resources.

My time isn't free, and I just had to farm poly bundles today, actually. 

[Troll_Logic]

19 minutes ago, Ninjahunter8020 said:

So, what I'm getting is that you want everything handed to you for free, and you don't want to work for anything.

Recasting Snow Globe due to some Nullifiers isn't that expensive. Crafting a few Energy restores isn't expensive or resource heavy, nor the resources that rare. I've played a lot of missions since the Nullifier change and I can honestly say that I haven't noticed a significant difference to how they were before.

That's the truth.  I roll into every mission with 200 ciphers and 200 of each large team restores.

[Phoenixian_Ultimatum]

Just now, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

My time isn't free, and I just had to farm poly bundles today, actually. 

And you think my time is free? And I did have to farm a few hundred to craft the Nekros Prime helm, but that doesn't ignore the fact that the medium restores only cost 450 Poly. An amount that should could get fairly easily enough (I left some missions with over 1,000 Poly bundles without the use of boosters). I doubt that amount of Polymer is going be that tedious to get, or burn any holes in your wallet.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

6 minutes ago, Ninjahunter8020 said:

And you think my time is free?

Clearly, it is.

[Phoenixian_Ultimatum]

Just now, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Clearly, it is.

What? Just because I can take a minute of my time to craft some restores? Or instead of going on a MD/Excation run I decide to go to Venus or Uranus to get some Poly Bundles? Most days I only get an hour, maybe two to play before needing to either go to work or sleep so I can make it through the shift I have to work that night. So, no my time if far from free.

[BlackCoMerc]

14 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

That's the truth.  I roll into every mission with 200 ciphers and 200 of each large team restores.

Says the player who has completely forgotten what its like to be new, without either restores or Fleeting Expertise, and to have your time totally negated by some idiot mechanic like an auto death to Stalker, a wasted Snowglobe due to one of a zillion Nullifiers in a mission or a drone literally stealing your time away...

The best thing newer players could do for Warframe...is go play some other game. Unanimously and universally go find a game whose developers care about and respect your time and effort, and go play that. Maybe if we keep bleeding new players like we are, DE will wise up and come up with a more customer friendly version of FTP, a better new player experience and something to do beyond grinding for loot.

[Reifnir]

I kinda don't get why people still complain.

I mean, sure, before SoTR, back when endless void mission were still relevant you at least had a reason to rage when a nullie dropped onto your snow globe from a balcony on t4 Defense/Interception, stepped on Frost's head and your entire team plus Cryopod got annihilated by incoming fire from level 100+ Corrupted units. Now?.. Outside of Sorties a decently modded loadout lets you mop the floor with nullifiers and everything else. Fissure runs are a joke. And if you can't survive a Corpus Sortie... Well, time to steel yourself and finally open the Recruiting tab in chat to assemble a proper team instead of doing sorties in a PuG. 

 

Yes, enemies that are magically immune to any and all Warframe powers are a crutch to support fundamentally flawed game design (Infested Eximus Stronghold runs *cough*, Parasitic crowds *cough* *cough*). But a tragedy? Far from it. 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

9 minutes ago, Ninjahunter8020 said:

What? Just because I can take a minute of my time to craft some restores? Or instead of going on a MD/Excation run I decide to go to Venus or Uranus to get some Poly Bundles? Most days I only get an hour, maybe two to play before needing to either go to work or sleep so I can make it through the shift I have to work that night. So, no my time if far from free.

Sorry, if I don't want to go spend an hour farming because you feel entitle to the contents of my wallet. 

Not to mention, standing around waiting for the pulses is neither safe nor fun. 

Edited September 4, 2016 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame

[Phoenixian_Ultimatum]

Just now, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Sorry, if I don't want to go spend an hour farming because you feel entitle to the contents of my wallet. 

I don't feel "entitled to the contents of your wallet." I was just making feedback and stating an option that you could take to help remedy the situation on your end until something (if anything) comes up about the nullifiers. At no point did I show any feeling of entitlement to the contents of your wallet. 

Anyway I feel that we've deviated from the main topic of the post. Keep complaining if you want, I'm done arguing with you over this, quite trivial, topic.

[(PSN)xKAIOWAx]

Ok Troll , i got it, you love nullyfiers , you re right 

[Troll_Logic]

31 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Says the player who has completely forgotten what its like to be new, without either restores or Fleeting Expertise, and to have your time totally negated by some idiot mechanic like an auto death to Stalker, a wasted Snowglobe due to one of a zillion Nullifiers in a mission or a drone literally stealing your time away...

For someone who doesn't know me you seem to know exactly how I play and exactly what I do in the game.

And you're wrong.

I haven't forgotten what it's like to be new.  Know what I do 95% of the time when starting a mission?  Drop a large team energy restore.  Know what 95% of my teammates do when starting a mission?  Run off at full speed and turn the mission into a race.  I craft and carry those restores because I understand their importance.

You act like you're the only player who has game experience.

AGAIN, I PLAY THE GAME.

I remember what it was like being slapped by the stalker & G3.  I've been there when a MR5 idiot revived the players while letting the hostage die in a sortie.  I've been one shot by enemies.  I've been dropped by idiot Ashes who blade storm when they've been irradiated.  Who have killed the hostage when irradiated.  I've lost missions when players in defense missions run off to fight in a far off hallway.  Same for mobile defense.  I've lost missions & died to every stupid player and cheesy situation in the game.

And I've done every single stupid thing above I've mentioned.  Trust me, my stupidity in the game have cost my team plenty of missions.

Stop acting like you're the "Protector of the Weak & Innocent" in Warframe.  You're not.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

1 hour ago, Troll_Logic said:

That's where your skill as a player shows.

Sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you.

Not every scenario is going to be the player rolling through the enemies without breaking stride.

Im not worried about breaking through with a stride. Im worried about being completely shut down by one enemy...not because i cant handle the enemy...its easy to build an anti nully frame/weapon/strategy. Not so easy to play without this build in a high lvl corpus mission. My point, is that players either "have" to build specifically for nullifiers...or be tremendously limited on the fun lvl in high lvl corpus missions. Even in low lvl corpus missions, wjere tje nullys are weak...they can shut down any non-meta frame easily. 

 

Its not about skill lvl, its all about fun factor. Your attking my skill as a player...im telling u that nullifiers dont require skill to take down...they require specific weapons and/or frames to effectively be countered. It doesn't take skill to run into the bubble and hack one in half with my galatine. However, any stacked power i possess...including my 200k iron skin is instantly eradicated. It doesnt take a rocket scientist or a "skilled player to pull out my sonicor and break its bubble, and blast it into next week...however it does require me to have sonicor equipped instead of my rakta ballistica...or have a my quanta vandal or boltor prime instead of my vaykor hek, or sancti tigris...

 

It isnt skill that requires a rapid firing weapon to break the bubble and destroy the nully...its mechanics. DE built the nullifiers with mechanical failsafes...it doesnt take skill to activate those failsafes...it takes the freedom of each player, to choose how they play this game, and tramples all over that freedom.

 

 

[ashrah]

 

Nullifiers

are big fun breakers for me in game yes i know hikou.glavie trick u kill it pretty fast but amount they spawn is awful

[Troll_Logic]

Just now, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

its easy to build an anti nully frame/weapon/strategy. Not so easy to play without this build in a high lvl corpus mission.

THAT'S.  THE.  POINT.  It isn't easy playing without the most optimal build.

1 minute ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Its not about skill lvl, its all about fun factor.

It takes skill without the optimal build.  The skill, to me, is what makes it fun.

5 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Your attking my skill as a player...im telling u that nullifiers dont require skill to take down...they require specific weapons and/or frames to effectively be countered.

Again, I must be the worst Warframe player because I find them difficult and dangerous.

6 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

It doesnt take a rocket scientist or a "skilled player to pull out my sonicor and break its bubble, and blast it into next week...however it does require me to have sonicor equipped instead of my rakta ballistica...or have a my quanta vandal or boltor prime instead of my vaykor hek, or sancti tigris...

You can equip whatever you like.

7 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

It isnt skill that requires a rapid firing weapon to break the bubble and destroy the nully...its mechanics. DE built the nullifiers with mechanical failsafes...it doesnt take skill to activate those failsafes...it takes the freedom of each player, to choose how they play this game, and tramples all over that freedom.

Players are free to equip whatever weapons they want to use.  I know I do.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

2 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

THAT'S.  THE.  POINT.  It isn't easy playing without the most optimal build.

It takes skill without the optimal build.  The skill, to me, is what makes it fun.

Again, I must be the worst Warframe player because I find them difficult and dangerous.

You can equip whatever you like.

Players are free to equip whatever weapons they want to use.  I know I do.

The skill....to you....is what makes it fun.

 

My point exactly...

 

Each one of us has a different idea as to what is "fun"...

 

We need an enemy that is difficult to take down, but doesn't easily shut down any given player. We need an npc that thinks... similar to the stalker. Not a nully, but a free thinking evolving enemy that scales with player lvl. Use ur weapons...watever u want...watever abilities u want. The enemy should be able to adapt on the fly...similar to the sentients but not so limited. 

 

Nullys dont think...they dont adapt...there mere presence ruins playstyle and instead shuts down our powers/weapons...when instead we should have an enemy or enemies that requires us to pull out all the stops... weapons/powers/playstyle to beat them down and complete the mission. Using true skill, not just button mashing.

[(PSN)Final_Dragon01]

10 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

THAT'S.  THE.  POINT.  It isn't easy playing without the most optimal build.

It takes skill without the optimal build.  The skill, to me, is what makes it fun.

Again, I must be the worst Warframe player because I find them difficult and dangerous.

You can equip whatever you like.

Players are free to equip whatever weapons they want to use.  I know I do.

So you like nullifiers because you like the challenge they provide when you take an inefficient build?  There are betters ways to provide and reward that kind of difficulty.  We don't need nullifiers to turn snipers into an unrewarded 'hard-mode.'

[Troll_Logic]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Final_Dragon01 said:

So you like nullifiers because you like the challenge they provide when you take an inefficient build? 

I find them challenging no matter what build I bring.  When people say that they have to equip the same optimal build, I reply with "You don't have to.  Bring what you want."

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Final_Dragon01 said:

We don't need nullifiers to turn snipers into an unrewarded 'hard-mode.'

Snipers are already in "unrewarded hard-mode."

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

1 hour ago, Ninjahunter8020 said:

I don't feel "entitled to the contents of your wallet." I was just making feedback and stating an option that you could take to help remedy the situation on your end until something (if anything) comes up about the nullifiers. At no point did I show any feeling of entitlement to the contents of your wallet. 

Anyway I feel that we've deviated from the main topic of the post. Keep complaining if you want, I'm done arguing with you over this, quite trivial, topic.

That's fine, I am not sure why you brought it up in the first place. :)

[Troll_Logic]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

We need an enemy that is difficult to take down, but doesn't easily shut down any given player. We need an npc that thinks... similar to the stalker. Not a nully, but a free thinking evolving enemy that scales with player lvl. Use ur weapons...watever u want...watever abilities u want. The enemy should be able to adapt on the fly...similar to the sentients but not so limited. 

No one wants that.  Trust me.  No matter what anyone says, they don't want that.

Everyone wants every enemy to have a "silver bullet."  

But for argument's sake, let's say DE builds it.  It would have...

"High HP/Shields/Armor" Players would complain incessantly about a bullet sponge.

"Strong weapon" Players would complain about one shot kills.

"Thinking enemy"  Players would complain about  their abilities being countered.

"It would have to win at least half of the time." For it to be a challenge.  Now let's go over that.  For a challenge, that means it would utterly destroy low level players that teamed up with high level players.  It would have to.  Let's say the team was a 4, a 12, an 8, and a 22.  If the 22 was challenged, then I'd expect the 4 to die multiple times.  Same with the 8 and 12.  I'd expect the 22 to die at least once.  I'd also expect the time to wipe at least 50% of the time.

Personally, I'd love it.  I'd guess maybe six other players would as well.

 

[(PSN)Final_Dragon01]

1 minute ago, Troll_Logic said:

I find them challenging no matter what build I bring.  When people say that they have to equip the same optimal build, I reply with "You don't have to.  Bring what you want."

Okay we just disagree on the challenge bit, since I believe they provide no challenge at all if you choose a loadout that trivializes them.

Sure we can bring what we want.  Limbo with an unmodded lato theoretically works in every mission.  But you are ignoring the drastic changes in efficiency caused by choosing "what you want" and ignoring the type of mission you are going into.  Many of us don't like that somethings are so much worse and some are so much better because of a single trash level mob.  Yes somethings should be better and some should be worse, but within reason.  Snipers are not just 50% less effective against nullifier shields they are 700% less effective.  That's not balance, it's just an arbitrary slap in the face for anyone who liked snipers.

And before you give me some canned workaround answer, the problem extends beyond snipers.  There are many weapons and non-meta warframe builds that are UNFAIRLY disadvantaged because of nullifiers.  Yes we need balance, but nullifiers are not the balance we need.

39 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

Snipers are already in "unrewarded hard-mode."

 Again I disagree.  They may have not been as easy to use, but once a player mastered the firing mechanics they could do great things with snipers.  That was the thing.  The old limitation on snipers was player skill and the intrinsic properties a sniper itself.  Now the limitation is an arbitrary wall of "**** Off".