Can we have the old void back now please?

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

48 minutes ago, KaizergidorahXi said:

Until you've tried to do exactly what they're trying to do, I don't think you should criticize so harshly. Feedback is one thing. But pretty much ordering them to comply with your wishes is something else entirely. 

 

47 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

More naivete. Unless you are a game programmer that is in the employ of DE, you have no grounds to make any claims on how long it "Should" take. Also no, its incredibly easy to make things some times but can be a new form of hell to fix it afterwards considering that the "fix" is able to be interpreted differently by the community.

For both your information... I have a degree in game development.. i KNOW by expirience what it takes to develop a game.. i know the development part can take a while, however, i know from expirence

Edited September 6, 2016 by [DE]Taylor
removed rude remark

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

29 minutes ago, PureIcarus said:

Yes, i was able to solo Defense, Interception and Survival to 40 and even 60 on occasion. And the main thing about soloing i don't like is now i used 1 key for 1 reward or run with 3 other and use 1 key and chose between 4 rewards. 

That's only because the reward system was broken towards endless missions.  I'd love for you to be able to do 40 minute survivals because you enjoy them,  I just think it should cost you 8 relics to get 8 prizes.

[KaizergidorahXi]

32 minutes ago, PureIcarus said:

 

For both your information... I have a degree in game development.. i KNOW by expirience what it takes to develop a game.. i know the development part can take a while, however, i know from expirence

But, do you work for DE? Every company has their own gameflow. If it'd be so easy, why not make a prototype yourself and demo it?

Edited September 6, 2016 by [DE]Taylor
removed unnecessary remark in quoted comment

[ObviousLee]

32 minutes ago, PureIcarus said:

 

For both your information... I have a degree in game development.. i KNOW by expirience what it takes to develop a game.. i know the development part can take a while, however, i know from expirence

i'm sorry, it's all the merit and validation I felt your stated case deserved

lemme ask you this: how much experience do you have in game creation?

[KaizergidorahXi]

1 minute ago, (PS4)geomancer1980 said:

That's only because the reward system was broken towards endless missions.  I'd love for you to be able to do 40 minute survivals because you enjoy them,  I just think it should cost you 8 relics to get 8 prizes.

That's a pretty great idea.

 

[NeithanDiniem]

4 minutes ago, PureIcarus said:

For both your information... I have a degree in game development.. i KNOW by expirience what it takes to develop a game.. i know the development part can take a while, however, i know from expirence

Again, and as Zaizer mentioned above, every company has their own workflow system, has their own project deadlines, and has their own feedback collection time set. And since you have a degree in game development, you should know that. That is taught in game project management.

Edited September 6, 2016 by NeithanDiniem

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

Just now, (PS4)geomancer1980 said:

That's only because the reward system was broken towards endless missions.  I'd love for you to be able to do 40 minute survivals because you enjoy them,  I just think it should cost you 8 relics to get 8 prizes.

That's your opinion.... I disagree... The new void system is the exact opposite that they promised it would be.

 

Just now, ObviousLee said:

i'm sorry, it's all the merit and validation I felt your stated case deserved

lemme ask you this: how much experience do you have in game creation?

Enough to know that the development process in the beginning is rough, however, after the fact tweaking and changing, as well as fixing takes less effort. However, if DE would put 20% more effort into actually play testing and finding out of their community actually wants something a certain way, they would have 120% less work, because they wouldn't have to go back every single time to fix things. 

 

1 minute ago, NeithanDiniem said:

Again, and as Zaizer mentioned above, every company has their own workflow system, has their own project deadlines, and has their own feedback collection time set. And since you have a degree in game development, you should know that. That is taught in game project management.

At this point... all DE has shown is they develop and toss it out, they don't test anything. They dont find out if the community likes it, they dont make sure it works with other parts of the game.. they just make the excuse that its a "BETA" and throw it to the wolves... Perpetual Beta is something they use in the software industry, not the game industry. It an excuse and it needs to change.

[KaizergidorahXi]

1 minute ago, PureIcarus said:

That's your opinion.... I disagree... The new void system is the exact opposite that they promised it would be.

 

Enough to know that the development process in the beginning is rough, however, after the fact tweaking and changing, as well as fixing takes less effort. However, if DE would put 20% more effort into actually play testing and finding out of their community actually wants something a certain way, they would have 120% less work, because they wouldn't have to go back every single time to fix things. 

 

At this point... all DE has shown is they develop and toss it out, they don't test anything. They dont find out if the community likes it, they dont make sure it works with other parts of the game.. they just make the excuse that its a "BETA" and throw it to the wolves... Perpetual Beta is something they use in the software industry, not the game industry. It an excuse and it needs to change.

If you think DE doesn't test, I'd advise you to actually watch the devstreams. An example of not testing is The Isle and No Mans Sky. See the difference? If you seriously hate the system that much, maybe you should find something else to do, as much as I hate to say it.

Edited September 6, 2016 by KaizergidorahXi

[ObviousLee]

1 minute ago, PureIcarus said:

 

 

Enough to know that the development process in the beginning is rough, however, after the fact tweaking and changing, as well as fixing takes less effort. However, if DE would put 20% more effort into actually play testing and finding out of their community actually wants something a certain way, they would have 120% less work, because they wouldn't have to go back every single time to fix things. 

 

so, what companies have you worked for? what games have you built? what projects have your name in the credits?

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

Just now, KaizergidorahXi said:

If you think DE doesn't test, I'd advise you to actually watch the devstreams. An example of not testing is The Isle and No Mans Sky. See the difference?

Then explain to me why every content release comes with bugs and problems that should have been ironed out way before release, and im not talking ones that pop up from people playing, i mean the SUPER obvious ones. Like "a CTD when Alt-f4ing in Conclave" That's something they need to TEST...  The MAIN thing they dont test is Multiple player missions... they test everything solo, which is why every time i do run a mission with a friend, they host and i find a ridiculous number of problems.

 

1 minute ago, ObviousLee said:

so, what companies have you worked for? what games have you built? what projects have your name in the credits?

Does it really matter? I have more experience with play testing games and viewing the design processes than most people realize. It doesn't take a genius or even a degree to see that DE doesn't put nearly enough effort into polishing as they should. Nor do they fix the obvious problems that have been around for so long, they focus too much on adding more content and not enough of polish... Until they fix Scorpions, they will always be an Amature development team in my eyes.

 

 

[NeithanDiniem]

7 minutes ago, PureIcarus said:

Enough to know that the development process in the beginning is rough, however, after the fact tweaking and changing, as well as fixing takes less effort. However, if DE would put 20% more effort into actually play testing and finding out of their community actually wants something a certain way, they would have 120% less work, because they wouldn't have to go back every single time to fix things. 

 

At this point... all DE has shown is they develop and toss it out, they don't test anything. They dont find out if the community likes it, they dont make sure it works with other parts of the game.. they just make the excuse that its a "BETA" and throw it to the wolves... Perpetual Beta is something they use in the software industry, not the game industry. It an excuse and it needs to change.

That first paragraph is enough to show me that you have an incredibly limited amount of experience in the industry. It does not take less effort to fix a system that has been in use for as long as it has with the rest of the game developing around it. You are also, for the... 5th time now? failing to address that DE has other things to work on.

Also, no, you are again wrong. Perpetual beta is purely used for them to inform players that large changes are to be expected in the game. They are not the only developers to use it by far. Again, showing your lack of experience in the field and do not have grounds to make such claims. Also just because YOU do not like it doesn't mean it is a failed release. You are one voice among 26 million.

Edited September 6, 2016 by NeithanDiniem

[KaizergidorahXi]

Just now, NeithanDiniem said:

That first paragraph is enough to show me that you have an incredibly limited amount of experience in the industry. It does not take less effort to fix a system that has been in use for as long as it has with the rest of the game developing around it. You are also, for the... 5th time now? failing to address that DE has other things to work on.

Also, no, you are again wrong. Perpetual beta is purely used for them to inform players that large changes are to be expected in the game. They are not the only developers to use it by far. Again, showing your lack of experience in the field and do not have grounds to make such claims. Also just because YOU do not like it doesn't mean it is a failed release. You are one voice among tens of millions.

And before you use the argument that "Many people don't like the system, not just me", there are also many people who love the system.

[ObviousLee]

1 minute ago, PureIcarus said:

 

Does it really matter? I have more experience with play testing games and viewing the design processes than most people realize. It doesn't take a genius or even a degree to see that DE doesn't put nearly enough effort into polishing as they should. Nor do they fix the obvious problems that have been around for so long, they focus too much on adding more content and not enough of polish... Until they fix Scorpions, they will always be an Amature development team in my eyes.

 

 

does you effectively admitting that you have no actual experience in the creation of games matter? idunno bro, you tell me.

 

 

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

Just now, PureIcarus said:

That's your opinion.... I disagree... The new void system is the exact opposite that they promised it would be.

 

Enough to know that the development process in the beginning is rough, however, after the fact tweaking and changing, as well as fixing takes less effort. However, if DE would put 20% more effort into actually play testing and finding out of their community actually wants something a certain way, they would have 120% less work, because they wouldn't have to go back every single time to fix things. 

 

At this point... all DE has shown is they develop and toss it out, they don't test anything. They dont find out if the community likes it, they dont make sure it works with other parts of the game.. they just make the excuse that its a "BETA" and throw it to the wolves... Perpetual Beta is something they use in the software industry, not the game industry. It an excuse and it needs to change.

I think youre confused about the size of this community, for every you there is a me.  I couldn't disagree with you on your opinion of the current void system more, so they have to take in to account both, and what is working best for the community at large.  You may be someone who designs games for a living, but you aren't designing this game, and therefore your opinion carries no more weight than anyone else who contributes on the forums.  As always everyone's opinion is welcome on the forums as long as they follow the rules, so I'm glad you shared yours.

 

10 minutes ago, KaizergidorahXi said:

That's a pretty great idea.

 

Defense/Intercepts - add a 3rd option "Continue with new Relic"

Survival maybe a pause to the flow were you choose Continue or "Continue with new Relic" every 5 minutes... that's trickier.  

Or alternatively be able to choose a "stack" 

Pick how long you plan on going and choose a number of relics accordingly. 

The only caveat I'd add would be that you keep the Relics you've opened till that point if you fail in a Defense/intercept. 

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

1 minute ago, NeithanDiniem said:

That first paragraph is enough to show me that you have an incredibly limited amount of experience in the industry. It does not take less effort to fix a system that has been in use for as long as it has with the rest of the game developing around it. You are also, for the... 5th time now? failing to address that DE has other things to work on.

Also, no, you are again wrong. Perpetual beta is purely used for them to inform players that large changes are to be expected in the game. They are not the only developers to use it by far. Again, showing your lack of experience in the field and do not have grounds to make such claims. Also just because YOU do not like it doesn't mean it is a failed release. You are one voice among 26 million.

THAT'S THE PROBLEM... they are too focused on working on "OTHER THINGS" to fix the problems they already have. Update 20 needs to stay away for a LONG time until whats here now is fixed. 

I am not wrong, Perpetual Beta is an excuse they use to say the game is in a "content state of development". Content needs to be Polished and working properly before more content is developed... they refused to do this.

You are right... i don't have much experience directly with the development of the games... i however do have extensive experience in testing and seeing problems that could arise from a feature before its added. 

1 minute ago, ObviousLee said:

does you effectively admitting that you have no actual experience in the creation of games matter? idunno bro, you tell me

No, i have not worked to actually develop a game... however, i have plenty of experience testing and finding problems. Which is part of creating the game... the part that DE refuses to put more resources towards. 

[KaizergidorahXi]

1 minute ago, (PS4)geomancer1980 said:

 

 

Defense/Intercepts - add a 3rd option "Continue with new Relic"

Survival maybe a pause to the flow were you choose Continue or "Continue with new Relic" every 5 minutes... that's trickier.  

Or alternatively be able to choose a "stack" 

Pick how long you plan on going and choose a number of relics accordingly. 

The only caveat I'd add would be that you keep the Relics you've opened till that point if you fail in a Defense/intercept. 

That's fantastic! You should make a thread for that

[KaizergidorahXi]

1 minute ago, PureIcarus said:

THAT'S THE PROBLEM... they are too focused on working on "OTHER THINGS" to fix the problems they already have. Update 20 needs to stay away for a LONG time until whats here now is fixed. 

I am not wrong, Perpetual Beta is an excuse they use to say the game is in a "content state of development". Content needs to be Polished and working properly before more content is developed... they refused to do this.

You are right... i don't have much experience directly with the development of the games... i however do have extensive experience in testing and seeing problems that could arise from a feature before its added. 

No, i have not worked to actually develop a game... however, i have plenty of experience testing and finding problems. Which is part of creating the game... the part that DE refuses to put more resources towards. 

Perpetual beta literally means "Constant state of development". Just like "Early Access".

Edited September 6, 2016 by KaizergidorahXi

[NeithanDiniem]

5 minutes ago, PureIcarus said:

Until they fix Scorpions, they will always be an Amature development team in my eyes.

If that is what you are basing your argument off of, then you are doing nothing more than ranting and raving at this point. The functional code for triggering the animation for the grapple and the launch of the grapple itself are two completely different things. The animation part triggers when you get in range and the enemy is facing its target within a field. Moving outside that field after the trigger for the animation causes the effect of the hook sometimes launching behind the enemy because of where the target moved to. Its so incredibly insignificant that people waving it around like some kind of flag that the game is lacking polish are doing themselves no favors.

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

Just now, KaizergidorahXi said:

Dude. Perpetual beta LITERALLY MEANS "Constant state of development". Just like "Early Access".

Which works only in the software industry... not the game industry... Players expect polished and well developed games... Perpetual Beta is only used for a development team to have an excuse to skip the polish part.

[ObviousLee]

1 minute ago, PureIcarus said:

 

No, i have not worked to actually develop a game... however, i have plenty of experience testing and finding problems. Which is part of creating the game... the part that DE refuses to put more resources towards. 

so what you're saying is, you've no experience in creation, and actual code conflict resolution, yet you toss out numbers from the stance as if you do. think about that for a second.

Identifying problems and sending in reports to the people who fix the problems, does not equate to knowing what you're talking about.

[KaizergidorahXi]

Just now, PureIcarus said:

Which works only in the software industry... not the game industry... Players expect polished and well developed games... Perpetual Beta is only used for a development team to have an excuse to skip the polish part.

I'm sorry you don't think this game is good enough for you. I think this game is very polished and well developed. You forget that your opinion is just that; YOURS. Not a fact, not everyone elses.

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

4 minutes ago, ObviousLee said:

so what you're saying is, you've no experience in creation, and actual code conflict resolution, yet you toss out numbers from the stance as if you do. think about that for a second.

Identifying problems and sending in reports to the people who fix the problems, does not equate to knowing what you're talking about.

I obviously understand the process more than you do... Storyboard > Design > Code > Test > Fix> Test > Polish... they are skiping the polish

 

3 minutes ago, KaizergidorahXi said:

I'm sorry you don't think this game is good enough for you. I think this game is very polished and well developed. You forget that your opinion is just that; YOURS. Not a fact, not everyone elses.

Yea.... My opinion... So if you disagree so much... go away. I don't care, im entitled to state my opinion, you are entitled to yours.. however, this thread is no about "who likes the void system" its about the reasons why i dislike it and feel it needs to be changed. You are right, its my opinion, and it has just as much merit as yours... if not more.(becuase 1) im a founder, 2) i have experience in game design, 3) Im finding things wrong with it, rather that accepting it),

Edited September 6, 2016 by PureIcarus

[KaizergidorahXi]

7 minutes ago, PureIcarus said:

I obviously understand the process more than you do... Storyboard > Design > Code > Test > Fix> Test > Polish... they are skiping the polish

 

Yea.... My opinion... So if you disagree so much... go away. I don't care, im entitled to state my opinion, you are entitled to yours.. however, this thread is no about "who likes the void system" its about the reasons why i dislike it and feel it needs to be changed. You are right, its my opinion, and it has just as much as yours... if not more.(becuase 1) im a founder, 2) i have experience in game design, 3) Im finding things wrong with it, rather that accepting it),

Whoa, okay. I was about to agree with you, until you said that your opinion carries more weight than mine because you're a Founder and have "Experience". Are you joking? You actually think you're better than someone else? I've been trying to be respectful, but it seems you don't even care enough to try. If you post your opinion on a public forum, people are going to come and post theirs. That does not give you the right to belittle them, and think that your opinion is worth more. It's not. Our opinions are worth the same here. 

Edited September 6, 2016 by KaizergidorahXi

[FierceRadiance]

2 hours ago, PureIcarus said:

If you dont have anything constructive to add... dont comment... I dont need a source to say people dislike the new void because the simple fact of the matter is its true. People hate grind, as you can tell by all the people complaining about Nitain and Oxium... 

It's understood (by the same people that claim everybody hates grind) that you either pay with your money or you pay with your time. 

So which of these options were you in favor of again?  It sounded like you thought you wanted "this thing here, right now, for free". But I know you don't really feel that way, because that's just plain stupid, and you don't strike me as stupid.

So did you want to pay with your time, or your money?  Or have you figured out a third way to pay DE so they can pay their programmers, keep the lights and servers lit up, etc.? Because at it's heart, Warframe is of course a business, not a game. 

Oh, and FYI, if all you have to offer is your personal opinion about something -like what other people think about grindwalls- you're absolutely encouraged to share it. But it's worth exactly the same as mine or the next guy's, no more and no less.  It's not a fact just because you believe it's true.  We share opinions here.  Just be careful about confusing opinions with facts.

[NeithanDiniem]

4 minutes ago, PureIcarus said:

You are right... i don't have much experience directly with the development of the games... i however do have extensive experience in testing and seeing problems that could arise from a feature before its added. 

No, i have not worked to actually develop a game... however, i have plenty of experience testing and finding problems. Which is part of creating the game... the part that DE refuses to put more resources towards. 

Welcome to what is effectively the entire community of Warframe. No, it doesn't make you somehow special that you used to playtest games. Games that you playtested were looking specifically for feedback regarding polish because they were in the polish phase of that arc of development, so it is natural that things you brought up as being unpolished got fixed. Your experience was essentially the footnote ending of the development phase and had nothing to do with active development phases. Stop taking your very limited experience with game development as a basis for how all game development is done.

1 minute ago, PureIcarus said:

I obviously understand the process more than you do... Storyboard > Design > Code > Test > Fix> Test > Polish... they are skiping the polish

 

Yea.... My opinion... So if you disagree so much... go away. I don't care, im entitled to state my opinion, you are entitled to yours.. however, this thread is no about "who likes the void system" its about the reasons why i dislike it and feel it needs to be changed. You are right, its my opinion, and it has just as much merit as yours... if not more.(becuase 1) im a founder, 2) i have experience in game design, 3) Im finding things wrong with it, rather that accepting it),

Polish comes at the end. Is Warframe at the end of development? no. Insignificant nuances like scorpions shooting behind them because their animation prevents them from rotating to face their fast moving target are things that have no negative impact on the game at all. Do yourself a favor and stop using them as a foundation to argue from. Also, you being a founder does not suddenly make your opinion any more valid. You got your goodies and your fame, thats all your founders program entitled you to. You do not have experience with game design, you have experience with playtesting which is not a part of design, it is a part of development. You are finding something you think is wrong, that being that you can no longer get multiple primes from one relic. That is an opinion that you think it is wrong, not something factual.