DE, give your invested players something to do (better summarized in H3dsh0t's YouTube vid)

[achromos]

It's funny, how some people assume that just because they or one person can have fun out of 'self challange' that other people can, and if they don't... they are just whining.  I personally find his reasoning valid because it is his own.  He isn't content right now, just because you guys are does not mean you need to be snarky and tell him to 'git gud' or deal with it.  Seriously, yes it may just be one person, but eventually there could be nobody left but a very small niche circle and then what?  I know that is a worst case scenario but how about addressing the issue if you can, or not at all?  Personally I think that TWW will help OP with the whole content drought.

 

Does everyone like Weapons as content?  No.

Do I?  ...Yes?  I like interesting weapons, and that's good enough for me.  Give me a story every so often, or a good hard event and I'm good.  Though I'm not everyone.

[xavoer]

Can we please make a habit of shaming people who think contributing to a thread is posting a reply solely consisting of a GIF or a JPEG they googled? People must surely appreciate the magnificent irony of someone posting a JPEG they stole from somewhere with the words "Nobody cares"? Granted the OP was just a link to someone elses content, but that content had legitimate points that one could discuss.

[k05h]

42 minutes ago, dodorichard said:

I think DE has set too many things to do recently with all the changes to gameplay, Lunaro, archwing, Endo, etc etc etc.

I think that is one of the reasons why it takes them so long to put out a new story mission. After The Second Dream they put lots of effort into lunaro. I still do not understand why you put a PvP distraction game mode into a fantastic PvE game. I mean look at steamcharts. Warframe goes strong when it presents a new story mission.

Lunaro, Conclave and Archwing are interesting ideas but nothing more. The PvE core gameplay is what makes Warframe the great game it is. Why not just drop the dead weight of lunaro, conclave and archwing and bring quarterly story missions instead. Some kind of Lore Prime Access ... 

Edited September 7, 2016 by k05h
undo typos

[xavoer]

2 minutes ago, k05h said:

I think that is one of the reasons why it takes them so long to put out a new story mission. After The Second Dream the put lots of effort into lunaro. I still do not understand why you put a PvP distraction game mod into a fantastic PvE game. I mean look at steamcharts. Warframe goes strong when it presents a new story mission.

Lunaro, Conclave and Archwing are interesting ideas but nothing more. 

Very much agree with all of this. But to expand I don't think it needs to be limited to story missions, great as they are. We just need something new that players like. Lunaro wasn't it, no one liked PvP and you can't just bypass a badly implemented mode by introducing another node to said badly implemented mode. From experience I'd guestimate 15% or less of players enjoy archwing, you won't bring over any others by introducing a slightly reworked control scheme and another copy and paste mission. We need more actual core content. A new faction, new enemy types, new mission types, a new core play mechanic, something along those lines

[Heatnix.]

7 hours ago, Vuli said:

There is nothing for long time players to do in this game anymore. I log in everyday, fuss around a bit, maybe do sorties or some sort of rep farm, then log out. I'm MR22, have every frame/weapon available to me, every mod maxed, etc., etc. - there is nothing to do. My hundreds of forma strong arsenal is wasted on mid-level content. Sorties, the only high-level content (and no, raids don't count, they are just a cc fest), are a cakewalk. I have no interest (and there is no incentive) in doing an endless mission for an hour just for it to start to get difficult.

I know EXACTLY how you feel. I feel the same way but, unlike you, I don't expect DE to do anything about it. In their eyes we have outlived our purpose since we already spent what was required of us as consumers and we are at the bottom of their list of fixes.

The horrible realization that there's nothing to do but stupid Lunaro and Sorties is annoying me to no end. Everyone is so happy with fissures right now that few realize how short lived the game is now.

Fine, farm prime parts. Sell, craft prime things. Then what? Use them where? To what purpose? Endless missions with 5k creds and more relics to send you back to farming? And who is going to join you? There's no reason to join an endless mission anymore. So Warframe effectively became Farmframe: All farming, no warring.

[--RV--ohestnes]

Apperantly this has been building up in us, content creators and "veteran" players alike for a while. I was going to write a big ol' summary of this whole thread tonight but all my points have already been made. Just adding to the post count so maybe DE will notice

[ShortCat]

It is true, there is not much to do for a long term player, who has everything and has done everything is in the game.

I won't defend DE for their update management and resulted delays. It seems, with every update they get overambitious; the game always gets a new system, the new update "must" be bigger, new stuff new stuff new stuff. Was it E3, where a concept for new system with sentient's parts was introduced? I am not sure. Point is, why do you spend brain capacity and resources on new mechanics, when there are mechanics in the game, which don't work right now. Maybe, if you would focus on one issue at a time, you would solve it. Example: AW update in SotR. What AW needs is not another gamemode or new movement, but conncetion to the core game. AW is disjointed, at this point it could be an entirely different game, a spinn off.

Now, that I am done scolding one side, I will move to the other.

Dear WF community, you are partially responsible for this situation. While I don't agree with all DE's actions, I totally understand why they did/do what they did/do. You think a planet with lvl 80-100 enemies will solve everything? Nope. In 3 months the game will powercreep to a new benchmark and people will demand lvl 150. "But ShortCat, if it is done right, it won't happen!" Done right means massive nerfs. Example: new Prime Access. Everyone and their grandma loves Galatine P. It is a masterpiece of powercreep and has no matching content for it in the game. As a sidegrade, it would drown in salty tears on the forum, until moderate part of the community builds a dam (Boltor/Heck and Syndicates). Back in the day a Youtuber got salty, because Soma P got only 20% damage increase and did not become the best weapon in the game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IuT0G-Cc4s

Void rework is also a community initiative. Main argument was void fatigue and repetivity of void missions, including endless. We got exactly what we asked!

 

[SoulEchelon]

The past few updates have been geared mostly toward new player experience and making the "campaign" interesting for them. Adding the planetary objectives and Junctions really helped flesh out early to mid game content, and the new relic system has also made prime parts farming easier to get into for new players. This is all great stuff.

However yes there's a big problem with endgame content as it stands, and I'm sure DE is listening. Let's hope War Within will bring more than just story content (Though I admit I'm pretty hyped about more story content). DE has been known to surprise us.

[k05h]

25 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

I won't defend DE for their update management and resulted delays. It seems, with every update they get overambitious; the game always gets a new system, the new update "must" be bigger, new stuff new stuff new stuff.

This is why we have some many great spin-off ideas that are flawed in their execution (lunaro, conclave, aw).

Why does DE not try the really brave thing and sell story missions with the occasional new weapon or a polished old one. I really would pay for story missions prime access. What keeps me emotionally invested in game is not weapon number 272 or warframe number 48 but a great story. I really enjoyed the Inaros mission because of the great background about Baro and I would love to get a Darvo story line. There is so much potential even in the rather bad Limbo "story". 

 

[Siekier]

15 hours ago, Silence00 said:

I have over 2500 hours in Warframe. As someone who has played this game for quite some time, I wanted to bring attention to a YouTube video that I think accurately voices the frustrations of many seasoned players. I'm open to discussion, but I really felt convicted to get H3dshot some more attention for his very astute and welcomed feedback of Warframe's current state. 

 

*Edit: 2500 may have been inaccurate, might be closer to 2k... I don't really care if I'm wrong but I've been playing consistently for over 2 years... so the hours were really just to help develop my purpose.*

I feel pretty much the same way about Warframe right now.

It became a pattern for me. I play for some time, Warframe gets me hooked in, but it's so repetitive that at some point I'm tired of this same old same old stuff and finally decide to take a break. Last time I did this was soon after Second Dream and I returned lately and guess what... I didn't notice that the game became somehow more interesting.

I got some Primes I didn't have before, did some missions, some sorties and I think I'm getting burned out again already, after maybe 3 weeks of playing (not every day at that).

14 hours ago, AM-Bunny said:

I disagree with his point about Events. I think they're a very flawed method of imparting story elements because they're so fleeting. Long time players have a very extensive history with Alad V, but almost none of his development can be experienced by players that started playing this week. The story that they have access to is choppy and nonsensical; they'd see him become infested in Patient Zero, and then he'd be cured in Second Dream. He'd say we owe him a favour, but as far as they know, we'd never repay it. 

Events are great for players at the time, but they aren't really beneficial to the long term value of Warframe. That's why I think DE should shift its focus to Quests (and I think they've realized this as well) at least as it relates to story developments. 

His claim that more events are the only way to get players back is plain wrong, in my opinion. If there were more Quests like Silver Grove, it'd be plenty for us.

Valid points here.  Portraying game lore in time exclusive way creates huge gaps in story for players who did not participate in said events.

[-Sora-]

2 hours ago, Momaw said:

Power creep is bad.  Enemies do not get more powerful with each update, so adding weapons that get more powerful with each update just carries further and further beyond the point where there's any challenge in the game. Weapons that stomp all over the enemies without giving those enemies a chance to ever fight back is boring. We need LESS powerful weapons, with unique interactive behaviors, to keep the game interesting.

However, you already got your wish. The Galatine Prime just came out and it makes every other melee weapon obsolete. Merry Christmas.

Due to the nature of the game, the gimmick weapons get underused. Why should i use the Heliocor if I already have a completed codex? Why should I use half of the weapons that were released in U16 when the old, tried, and true weapons excel and are much more efficient for everything?

 

I'd prefer to use a tried and true method instead of having to rely on getting headshots with the Dual Toxocyst pistols. When I'm in a 4 player public match I barely have time to even aim due to everyone blending everything into dust.  And If I'm running solo there arent enough enemies half the time for me to make use of the "unique" interactions anyways.

 

Just giving out "unique interactive behaviors" to "make the game interesting" doesn't work if half of the time the features are on low-mid tier weapons.

 

Besides, how is power creep bad?

 

MMOs manage to do it all the time. And people keep playing them! World of Warcraft has been going on strong for a decade. And with each expansion pack the numbers on everything went up. It's literally the only solution that actually keeps the base game the same whilst adding onto progression.

 

We shouldn't have to gimp builds in order to have a challenge. The game should give us challenge yet give us the tools to exceed them. "Stomping" enemies happens because high level players are condensed into zones with low level enemies. The Synoid SImulor is absurdly overpowered because the numbers it puts out are absolutely ridiculous in the current game meta. It's leading to the stagnation of progression within the game.

 

Power creep is not giving us OP gear to take out weak enemies. We should get lesser rewards for doing so in the first place. Almost every game does this. I'm level 30, The enemies are level 15-20, I'm not getting rewards, I should move onto higher level content. However we are STUCK at level 30 whilst the enemies power up EXPONENTIALLY. And we have to rely on broken items to have a fighting chance.

 

It's not power creep. It's simple progression. 

 

Enemies do absurd amounts of damage and have absurd amounts of health in the current endgame (>lvl 100) due to the scaling present in the game. If players are allowed to match it and eventually exceed it, They should be REWARDED. But instead, we get those lovely 5000 credit bundles of disappointment. There is only the entry level rewards for top of the line players.

 

To fix this, we need to get players OUT of lower level missions and INTO higher level content. AND BASE NEW CONTENT AROUND THIS. A player should not start the war within with low-mid range gear. It should take players with high end gear. Then introduce higher end gear in order to push progression along. This is not intended to sound entitled or anything. The game has been focusing far too long on the low to mid range area of gameplay. And ignoring the higher level. The meta needs to consistently change otherwise it leads to the stagnation that we have RIGHT NOW. 

 

I don't care if i have to farm new resources in a different galaxy, I don't care if I need to forma new gear, I don't care if I need to level my warframe up to level 60. The truth is the game is STUCK in a rut, and the view that "Oh but muh challenge!" is outright denial that the game is stuck because we have been stuck at level 30 for ages. If we want more challenge then we need to be given the tools to deal with the game's scaling system. If enemies scale exponentially, then we should too. 

 

This means we need level 100+ planets. A higher level cap for powers and warframes, new mods, new gear, and new content to be tailored towards older players. This fixes the fundamental issues with the current meta. And every major update should do this.

 

The current scaling from level 1-30 is absolutely fine. Beyond that it gets into procedurally generated challenges. That is the issue. because it is computer generated. There is no way to play content in the level 100+ range without relying on breaking the game. This needs to be fixed.

 

If the content we receive is tailored to the lowest common denominator. Then we get the exact issue that we have right now.

 

It's up to the player base to decide whether or not to go with it. And from the way things are looking, It's staying exactly how it is.

 

Now if you excuse me it's about time i went to sleep.

Edited September 7, 2016 by -Sora-

[K0bra]

Thx mate for sharing this.What he says is absolutely true.They ignored way to long long time players and this is the result.They overfoccused newer players and forgot their Veterans.

Sorties ? A Joke and not rewarding since a loooooooooong time at all.This should be some kind of rewarding endgame.Its ****

Baro? Not rewarding since forever.

Events?Alerts? Where are those nice Events weapons from the past?The last new ones was the Furax Wraith.Thats a long time ago.Just sad.

The leveling and formaing feels more and more like a pain

The build variations lacks completely now and its most times only 2 variations per weapon class

The Void long survival + rewarding challenge is gone...

The game lost something...

To ignore activities for veterans and "casualise" "endgame content for veterans" works for some time but they completely overstrained it this time.This game feels absolutely not rewarding anymore when you have everything.

They blew at the moment their long time players playerbase up and im not sure if they even realize that.In Devs streams they dont really address that.Not much or nothing at all.

 

I saw these days another videos that could add some valid points into the discussion.

 

Edited September 7, 2016 by K0bra

[ComfyOlivia]

6 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

A lot of what's been happening since The Second Dream in terms of DE's work hours have gone to fixes, updates, art and overhauls. These activities take up a huge amount of time and resources but often don't have as much of a perceived impact on the player as new content (our shiny new guns and swords) does.

Yep. The majority of the updates have just included changes. Endo, Void System, the Map, ect. It's nice that they've gone back and tried to improve on these systems. The problem is that people are becoming less and less interested because of this. If there was a balance between overhauls and new content, this wouldn't be the case. However, it seems the creative side of DE is mostly dealing with The War Within. It's good in the sense that it'll come out quicker. It's also bad in the sense of the fact that holding back content like this is seriously hurting their end-game player base. When they saw what they were going to need to do to get the quest out, they should have just moved some of the resources elsewhere and let the quest be in a later update, and made something else for this update, as to not stuff up the content pipeline.

[ShortCat]

10 minutes ago, -Sora- said:

I'd prefer to use a tried and true method instead of having to rely on getting headshots with the Dual Toxocyst pistols. When I'm in a 4 player public match I barely have time to even aim due to everyone blending everything into dust.

Simulor or Tonker are mindless and easy to use weapons, yet they tear everything apart. They only way Toxocyst could compete with those is more damage even despite his interesting mechanic. Value boils down to bigger numbers, not interesting mechanics. --> Power creep.

24 minutes ago, -Sora- said:

Just giving out "unique interactive behaviors" to "make the game interesting" doesn't work if half of the time the features are on low-mid tier weapons.

You provide a weapon with interesting mechanic & good stats, and it will overshadow everything in the arsenal. If 2 weapons have the same stats, but one of them also has an "interesting behavior", it eliminates all competition. While a weaker weapon with interesting mechanic can still compete, because of the mechanic. Check your logic.

30 minutes ago, -Sora- said:

Besides, how is power creep bad? MMOs manage to do it all the time. And people keep playing them! World of Warcraft has been going on strong for a decade. And with each expansion pack the numbers on everything went up. It's literally the only solution that actually keeps the base game the same whilst adding onto progression.

WoW has a special place, because it made the genre popular. And it is for sure not the only solution. Guild Wars Series made an excellent progression without overreliance on more powerfull toys. You don't need to chase a carrot on a stick.

36 minutes ago, -Sora- said:

We shouldn't have to gimp builds in order to have a challenge. The game should give us challenge yet give us the tools to exceed them. "Stomping" enemies happens because high level players are condensed into zones with low level enemies. The Synoid SImulor is absurdly overpowered because the numbers it puts out are absolutely ridiculous in the current game meta. It's leading to the stagnation of progression within the game.

S. Simulor is overpowered, because it is overpowered! I actually remember the time in WF, when it was hard to reach 40 minutes in a T4S with a PUG. There was a time when people would celebrate, when you showed a solo run in T4S till 40 minutes. Since then our arsenal changed so much, it is considered as given to get there. It was also a time, when Rot C had a guaranteed Prime Part drops. Progression --> Reward. Power creep is the worst enemy of a good game designer, because you need to re-evaluate your entire content from time to time; you cannot build and improve upon it. And it costs resources.

47 minutes ago, -Sora- said:

Enemies do absurd amounts of damage and have absurd amounts of health in the current endgame (>lvl 100) due to the scaling present in the game. If players are allowed to match it and eventually exceed it, They should be REWARDED. But instead, we get those lovely 5000 credit bundles of disappointment.

This is the direct cause of powercreep! Now lvl 100 is not rewarding enough; in 3 months it is lvl 150; 6 months later it is lvl 200. And all this time developers chase after power creep while the game stands still.

56 minutes ago, -Sora- said:

To fix this, we need to get players OUT of lower level missions and INTO higher level content. AND BASE NEW CONTENT AROUND THIS

And when this "new content" gets old and useless we get "new content 2.0". Follow this trend with every build and the proportion of relevant to irrelevant content will get smaller and smaller.

What you present here as a solution is a sure way to ruin any game.

 

[PsychedelicSnake]

17 hours ago, AM-Bunny said:

I disagree with his point about Events. I think they're a very flawed method of imparting story elements because they're so fleeting. Long time players have a very extensive history with Alad V, but almost none of his development can be experienced by players that started playing this week. The story that they have access to is choppy and nonsensical; they'd see him become infested in Patient Zero, and then he'd be cured in Second Dream. He'd say we owe him a favour, but as far as they know, we'd never repay it. 

Events are great for players at the time, but they aren't really beneficial to the long term value of Warframe. That's why I think DE should shift its focus to Quests (and I think they've realized this as well) at least as it relates to story developments. 

His claim that more events are the only way to get players back is plain wrong, in my opinion. If there were more Quests like Silver Grove, it'd be plenty for us.

Agreed with the points made here.

[Mak_Gohae]

1- devs will never outpace people blasting through the game. This is why dailies where created.

2- Sorties have Nezha. Yes, once you get the frame it's meh.

3- i've been saying for a while, the games need a hardcore more. And that doesnt mean enemies with more health and damage. That's not really a challenge because the tactics will remain the same. They need to bring back the original rollers, seekers, Muta Ospreys, broken lights. All of that requires you to deal with each situation in a slightly different way.

Maybe they can do like like Guild Wars and depending on the zone they tune down your stats so you can rolls on stuff.

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

26 minutes ago, PsychedelicSnake said:

Agreed with the points made here.

I think events are however fun ways to give the community a vote in story direction.  Maybe tie events to a specific follow up quest that incorporates the functions of the event into the quest itself. 

Basically allowing players who missed the event to go through the event mission type for the quest start.  

[(PSN)maso_sage-mode]

I dont usually follow youtubers, but the guy made some good points in the video. What am I supposed to do with every single thing in the game maxed out ??? ( besides bad guns) Nothing because its not rewarding at all...Log in > sorties> raids> log off....We need more EVENTS with good rewards !!!!! , we need REPLAYABLE QUESTS WITH THEIR REWARDS, how come you guys give us as junction rewards the chroma pieces but not the blueprint ??? looks like you dont even care about it.... I love the game but its getting really boring and you have to fix a loooot of stuff quickly because the hardcore playerbase is leaving your game. Enough said

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

4 hours ago, Heatnix. said:

I know EXACTLY how you feel. I feel the same way but, unlike you, I don't expect DE to do anything about it. In their eyes we have outlived our purpose since we already spent what was required of us as consumers and we are at the bottom of their list of fixes.

The horrible realization that there's nothing to do but stupid Lunaro and Sorties is annoying me to no end. Everyone is so happy with fissures right now that few realize how short lived the game is now.

Fine, farm prime parts. Sell, craft prime things. Then what? Use them where? To what purpose? Endless missions with 5k creds and more relics to send you back to farming? And who is going to join you? There's no reason to join an endless mission anymore. So Warframe effectively became Farmframe: All farming, no warring.

I have to wonder if some players overestimate the popularity of those endless missions.  My crew always hated them because they were a chore.  That might be why I don't feel the same way some vet players seem to. 

The endless missions are still there, but if no one wants to go long on them anymore it's probably because it was just the easiest way to get the most stuff and isn't any longer.  If a game mode is pulling in players purely based on it's fun factor then it won't be hugely effected by reward changes. 

[Vuli]

I guess my thread got merged into this one while keeping my thread's title. O.o

IMO, mods, it should have been the other way around since this OP just linked the vid while I expressed my opinion using the vid as reinforcement. Only reason I care is it makes for easier discussion and (hopefully) easier for DE to see main points. Anywhos, carry on.

[GKDK]

I'm tired of lossing 3 clans due to my members quiting the game from boredom. I keep on bringing new players in and grinding until they get their prime parts and forma their gear but in the end it's same question, "What now?" and I'm alone once again. 

As others have said in detailed here which I hope DE will read. We need something that changes how this game is played in a real end game. Something that will keep players coming back everyday. Fashionframe isn't enough, I have grandmaster friends who aren't even active anymore. 

New players keep coming but so few actually stay and play. I hope DE focuses on the important things such as this issue and while I'm thrilled to see real looking foliage and fog coming to the game, I would have been more excited hearing some new improvements to the core game. 

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

I don't mind that there's a lack of endgame content.

I've got a huge backlog of other games I need to get around to eventually.

[EmptyDevil]

8 hours ago, DrakoKnight48 said:

If you watched the video with an open mind, you would've gotten your answer instead of waiting for a person to tell you. In short, everything in the video is 100% agreeable. 

Entirely subjective based on what is being spouted. 

[starsrift]

Just wanted to chime in, bump the thread, and say yes, I'd really like an endgame of some kind. Rework the raids / give us more traditional MMO content, restructure events, something.

As I've said in similar threads - the new starchart is fantastic and provides a very effectively directed path for players to go from the beginning to the endgame. Only once you finish, there's nothing there.

[aerosoul1337]

"The longer you fight, the more successful we will be."

Not at all, after getting new primes, I spent more time on the forum than playing Warframe (login->sorties->log out).